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    heatherlew
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    RFK Stadium 1989 Box

    LESS THAN 5000 LEFT

    The Grateful Dead battled the elements in July 1989, enduring drenching rains and stifling humidity during back-to-back shows at Robert F. Kennedy Stadium in the nation’s capital. In spite of the bleak weather, the band thrilled the massive crowds both nights with triumphant performances that rank among the very best of a busy year that included 74 shows and the release of the group’s final studio album, BUILT TO LAST.

    ROBERT F. KENNEDY STADIUM, WASHINGTON, D.C., JULY 12 & 13, 1989 includes two previously unreleased concerts taken from the band’s master 24-track analog recordings, which have been mixed by Jeffrey Norman at TRI Studios and mastered in HDCD by David Glasser. The collection’s colorful slip case features original artwork by Justin Helton and a perfect-bound book with in-depth liner notes written by Dean Budnick, editor-in-chief of Relix magazine. The set will also be available as a digital download in Apple Lossless and FLAC 192/24.

    When Jerry Garcia, Mickey Hart, Bill Kreutzmann, Phil Lesh, Brent Mydland, and Bob Weir rolled into D.C. in July 1989 for the Dead’s two-night stand at RFK, the band hit the stage running with a stellar rendition of “Touch Of Grey,” the group’s biggest hit from its only Top 10 album In The Dark, which was released in 1987. The following night, the band returned to its double-platinum commercial breakthrough when it opened the show with a fiery version of “Hell In A Bucket.”

    “RFK Stadium '89 fell right in the middle of one of the best tours of the last 15 years of Grateful Dead performances, with these shows being the sixth and seventh of an 11-show tour. This tour is widely considered the start of a nine month period of sustained excellence, which ran from Summer '89 through Spring '90. The RFK shows are as good as any of the more famous shows from this period, including July 4 in Buffalo, July 7 in Philadelphia, and the Alpine run,” says David Lemieux, Grateful Dead archivist and the set’s producer. “When Bob Weir has asked me to provide copies of Grateful Dead songs to give to his bandmates to learn and rehearse, he almost always requests Summer '89, and I've often drawn upon the RFK shows for this purpose. It's really that good!”

    Both shows feature standout moments, but the July 12 show is notable for a few reasons. Perhaps the biggest is that the first set featured at least one song sung by each of the band’s four lead singers – Garcia, Weir, Lesh and Mydland – something that rarely happened. Another surprise came when the band opened the second set with “Sugaree,” a song that almost always appeared during the first set.

    Pianist Bruce Hornsby — who briefly joined the band between 1990 and 1992 — is featured on both shows. He played accordion during “Sugaree” and “Man Smart (Woman Smarter),” with a touch of keyboard-tinkling, on July 12, and then played more accordion the following night for “Tennessee Jed” and “Stuck Inside Of Mobile With The Memphis Blues Again.”

    For fans of Mydland’s tenure with the Dead – which began in 1979 and ended in 1990 with the keyboardist’s tragic death – these stellar shows capture that incarnation in peak form. Among the long list of highlights are performances of live staples such as “Eyes Of The World,” “Wharf Rat” and “I Need A Miracle,” along with rarities like “To Lay Me Down,” which was played only a few times in 1989. The July 13 show also features the band road-testing “I Will Take You Home,” a track Mydland wrote with Dead lyricist John Perry Barlow that would appear later that fall on Built To Last.

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  • Butch
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    RIP Malcom Young
    He was underrated, no doubt. Saw AC/DC several times, and the biggest takeaway was always the tight playing and showmanship. I saw a comment about Bob Weir also being one of the most underrated rhythm players. I think because he doesn't play rhythm half the time. He has a unique stylet for the rock genre (if you can even give the Dead that label). He's more like a chord filler-inner. Sure, songs like Bertha and Jack Straw feature him in a traditional rhythm role, but half the time or more, he's just hitting sharp chords between beats (Scarlet / Fire, Estimated Prophet for example). And then you have Jerry playing rhythm on something like Franklin's Tower or Eyes of the World, and Bird Song, and Keith holding down the rhythm primarily (while Jerry plays lead and Bobby just jumps in where it sounds good, sometimes he'll play the rhythm part, then drop out and do chord fills). This isn't all the time as I hear it, and less in the early days, but I think that's part of the reason he's not often talked about as one of the greats. The somewhat open form of the Dead makes the synergy between band members more important than most live bands, because in a case like I described with Weir, you have to play off each other, as opposed to memorizing your parts. Magnificent band.
  • danc
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    80s in NYC - good music
    In between Dead shows and work life, I clocked a LOT of nights at Maxwell's and at the Lone Star, great friendly atmosphere at both, less uptight than many other club venues. Metro area shows by REM, Robyn Hitchcock, Elvis Costello, Springsteen were usually worth the effort. (I, tragically for me, overlooked Zappa for decades.) Tower was open late, and 80s records by Talking Heads, Peter Gabriel and U2 remain benchmark joys for many around my age (57). All-in, 80s music was good enough, until jazz got into me and I got into jazz starting in 1988.
  • muleskinner_blues
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    Started out on Heineken
    Getting acquainted with this set, it got pushed in the queue for the new Dylan Bootleg Series but it holds its own. I really liked Spring '90, TOO was the first set I got, but I think between this, 7/7 and the Warlocks set, I'd say '89 may have been a better year than '90. Don't know..there was some good stuff on those Spring '90 boxes..need to go back to that. 3/14, 3/30 and 4/2 for me. On officially released 1989, I'll say I haven't gotten into the 30 Trips inclusion from Miami. If I'm not mistaken, one of only a few multi-tracks in the box, but never stood out. Another one to replay. In the RFK set, both first sets have been enjoyable and the sound quality literally can't get any better. I think the second set gives 7/13 an edge, Terrapin always win. The thunderstorm overdubs on Looks Like Rain are a bit kitschy, but as I understand it reflects the actual ambiance. Lot of good listening here lately..8/25/72, RFK, Dylan Bootleg Series, new Langhorne Slim, Dylan live last weekend. Streamed all or part of each of the D&C Fall shows so far. I need more shows. The Dylan gospel Bootleg has me listening to some of the shows I have from the era..Jerry joined him for several tracks on 11/16/80 at the Warfield. That was the night after Bloomfield joined him for what would be his last live performances. None of the Jerry or Mike songs made the official release, but there are good recordings out there. Great live stuff from this box, underrated. Dylan even employed two drummers for a spell there in '81...what a crazy notion..
  • daverock
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    Mind-Left-Body
    Peace be with you, too.
  • nitecat
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    RFK box
    By the way I'm loving this new box. I'm on my second listen. Awesome sound, and Jerry rips it on that Fantasy. I love all phases of the Dead.
  • nitecat
    Joined:
    Dead & Co stream
    Hi all, I'm thinkin' of paying for the D&C stream tonight. It starts at 4 PM PST, I'd like to start watching around 7 PM PST. My question: once you pay for it can you start watching it from the beginning any time or is it only available live? Thanks in advance for your sage advice.
  • cosmicbadger
    Joined:
    Paul Buckmaster
    Died 7 November. The man who (imo) ruined Terrapin Station (and was hired by Jerry to do so). What were they thinking? I still remember taking my freshly purchased copy round to a frends place to play (his hifi was better than mine). We were really getting into the Terrapin suite when.....wtf was that? We ended up rolling around laughing. I really wish they would release a version without all the orchestral and choir overdubs. Anyway, Paul Buckmaster only did what he was paid to do, and many other of his orchestrations were much more successful (Stones,Bowie, Elton etc.) RIP (but maybe stay clear of Jerry up there!)
  • Kayak Guy
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    unkle sam D&C
    I'm a curmudgeon, so I'm not suprised by Thin and I enjoying different sets.It was a good show, but nothing like the Water's show, which was probably the best thing I saw this year. I'm usually a huge fan of the Drums, but that one was disappointing and had me yelling it needed more cowbell, it seemed to lack a theme and never found one. I was surprised how much I did like, out of the lackluster Drums was a Jazz Jam, Wharf Rat into Wheel that were done well, Sugar Mag, you can't get any better than Bobby doing Bobby and the Ripple tied it together with a nice bow. No matter what Thin says the Viola Lee made my night. I did smile during the Scarlet Fire knowing Thin was in attendance with the 11/6/77 up as the next Dave's ;)
  • Thin
    Joined:
    D&C Friday / 80's dead
    Kayak - Sorry to miss you Friday night. I, hilariously, had the exact opposite review of Friday. I thought set 1 thru Scar>Fire was great but then it faded. BUT, I was there with my son - his first show. I ALWAYS see the show differently when I bring a newbie.... instead of enjoying it for myself. 1st set was an amazing setlist, 2nd set had a lot of songs he didn't know after Scar>Fire which probably shaded his/my opinion. My review to my buddy was that it reminded me of Saratoga '85: "Great first set, 2nd set starts good but fizzles - best stuff of the night was 1st set". Had I gone without him, I probably would have seen it your way. But overall, they CRUSHED it. Space - you wrote "Perhaps some of the ill will towards the Dead in the 80's is motivated by the fact that the Dead stood up in the face of a shitty sociol-political climate... ". Where do you GET this stuff??? What "ill will toward the Dead in the 80's" are you talking about? If you've actually inflated the "I wish they'd release more 80's" into a socio-political culture war, I think you've jumped the shark. If I'm totally missing you're point, I apologize. Respect.
  • MadDoc
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    CJ
    The Cowboy Junkies came along in the 80s, the late 80s. A band we go see every chance we get. Lots of old Dead types there. Loved the GD in the mid 80s. The scene was still fairly mellow. While Jerry was clearly not well, and at times sounded like froggy, he still had his chops. The band had changed their sound, but not in a bad way IMHO. It's a shame someone like Betty wasn't recording back then.I'm very thankful for the excellent work Mr. Miller, and others, have made available from that era.
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RFK Stadium 1989 Box

LESS THAN 5000 LEFT

The Grateful Dead battled the elements in July 1989, enduring drenching rains and stifling humidity during back-to-back shows at Robert F. Kennedy Stadium in the nation’s capital. In spite of the bleak weather, the band thrilled the massive crowds both nights with triumphant performances that rank among the very best of a busy year that included 74 shows and the release of the group’s final studio album, BUILT TO LAST.

ROBERT F. KENNEDY STADIUM, WASHINGTON, D.C., JULY 12 & 13, 1989 includes two previously unreleased concerts taken from the band’s master 24-track analog recordings, which have been mixed by Jeffrey Norman at TRI Studios and mastered in HDCD by David Glasser. The collection’s colorful slip case features original artwork by Justin Helton and a perfect-bound book with in-depth liner notes written by Dean Budnick, editor-in-chief of Relix magazine. The set will also be available as a digital download in Apple Lossless and FLAC 192/24.

When Jerry Garcia, Mickey Hart, Bill Kreutzmann, Phil Lesh, Brent Mydland, and Bob Weir rolled into D.C. in July 1989 for the Dead’s two-night stand at RFK, the band hit the stage running with a stellar rendition of “Touch Of Grey,” the group’s biggest hit from its only Top 10 album In The Dark, which was released in 1987. The following night, the band returned to its double-platinum commercial breakthrough when it opened the show with a fiery version of “Hell In A Bucket.”

“RFK Stadium '89 fell right in the middle of one of the best tours of the last 15 years of Grateful Dead performances, with these shows being the sixth and seventh of an 11-show tour. This tour is widely considered the start of a nine month period of sustained excellence, which ran from Summer '89 through Spring '90. The RFK shows are as good as any of the more famous shows from this period, including July 4 in Buffalo, July 7 in Philadelphia, and the Alpine run,” says David Lemieux, Grateful Dead archivist and the set’s producer. “When Bob Weir has asked me to provide copies of Grateful Dead songs to give to his bandmates to learn and rehearse, he almost always requests Summer '89, and I've often drawn upon the RFK shows for this purpose. It's really that good!”

Both shows feature standout moments, but the July 12 show is notable for a few reasons. Perhaps the biggest is that the first set featured at least one song sung by each of the band’s four lead singers – Garcia, Weir, Lesh and Mydland – something that rarely happened. Another surprise came when the band opened the second set with “Sugaree,” a song that almost always appeared during the first set.

Pianist Bruce Hornsby — who briefly joined the band between 1990 and 1992 — is featured on both shows. He played accordion during “Sugaree” and “Man Smart (Woman Smarter),” with a touch of keyboard-tinkling, on July 12, and then played more accordion the following night for “Tennessee Jed” and “Stuck Inside Of Mobile With The Memphis Blues Again.”

For fans of Mydland’s tenure with the Dead – which began in 1979 and ended in 1990 with the keyboardist’s tragic death – these stellar shows capture that incarnation in peak form. Among the long list of highlights are performances of live staples such as “Eyes Of The World,” “Wharf Rat” and “I Need A Miracle,” along with rarities like “To Lay Me Down,” which was played only a few times in 1989. The July 13 show also features the band road-testing “I Will Take You Home,” a track Mydland wrote with Dead lyricist John Perry Barlow that would appear later that fall on Built To Last.

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5K will be added to the available quantity at some point. It's gone down exactly as I posted it would, although I'm surprised they're going with 15K. They still started with 10K and are now down to 3800 - 3900. Sales, Space Brother are at 6200 roughly, which leaves about 8800 left (5K which muse still be added). I'm not sure what numbers are "more or less brisk", but these are the facts. Brisk is relative I guess. Bottom line is that a good seller is great for us all.
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The limited announcement yesterday did what it was meant to do in piquing my interest, but I'm still on the fence. These could probably be broken down to 4-5 discs, and there probably won't be any filler, and once again I'll be miffed at short discs, though this time for 65 bucks for 2 shows. I think I'd find 5/8-9/77 as a 2 show box for 65 bucks to be pricey, so it has nothing to do with Brent or '80s hate. I actually like Summer '89-Summer '90 a lot, they were playing at the peak of that incarnation, as evidenced by how much of it's been released. (But feel free to throw this post back at me if they offer a 2 show box of RFK '73 for the same price and I buy it the minute it's announced, because that would likely be my reaction to that RFK box.) The book is probably nice, and I love the books in the boxes. The books are what I really miss about Spring '90 and Europe '72 (though I really love the idea of the steamer trunk). If it's around next year and I got the extra cash, I'll get it. If I miss out, I'll survive, and enjoy the subscription for Dave's 2018 and next year's big box.
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My first GD exposure was 8 track. Ha.. that's one medium I wont miss. I guess I had a bad machine, it kept eating all my tapes. It was really a bad technology... Cassettes were much more reliable.. and contrary to popular belief, I do not see them making a robust comeback. My prized Nak died about ten years back.. the belts had all dry rotted and it started to play reeeeaaaaalllllyyyyyy sssslllllloooooowwwwwww. There is no advantage to cassettes over CD's as far as I can tell, and a lot of drawbacks. I do see the Vinyl appeal, but 8 tracks and cassettes, I just don't see this becoming a wave.
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Do I remember 8 tracks? Yep, but I prefer the sound of Edison wax cylinders...
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I was just spinning my Cornell Wax Cylinder - Limited Edition this morning. My lowest release number ever.. #2.
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I was 16 or so (mid '80s)...my stepfather had "Animals" on 8 track...yada yada yada...The family stereo played 1 track forward & 1 track backward simultaneously...yada yada yada...my head exploded.
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I vaguely remember my Dad's player being the only format he had The Beatles Rain.
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8 years 3 months
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Forgot all about that one. I hear that player piano paper punch rolls are making a comeback too. I wonder how DaP 23 sounds with all instruments transcribed to piano. Been on a bit of an old vinyl binge lately too, mostly the unDead. Glad I saved my entire collection, started over 40 years ago. Had a friend who had a few thousand LPs that he partly replaced with CDs, then sold the batch to a used record store a decade or so ago for only a few hundred dollars. I tried to stop him, to no avail. He just wanted to make some space, but I bet he regrets it now - it was a good collection, and older than mine. He let me claim 10-20 of my favorites from his collection before he shuttled them away.
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Sunshine Daydream Reached #19 on the Billboard sales chart. Their best selling album since In The Dark.
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Piano rolls - At least we could make Keith sound like he had 12 fingers! 8-Track - what a lousy piece of equipment these things were. I must have installed 100 of those things back in the day. Never owned one. The track always seemed to change in the middle of the best part of a song. When they got old and curled a little you'd hear two tracks at once and the "head" adjustment couldn't correct it out. They all ate tapes at some point. If you were lucky just the tape got eating and came out when the tape was removed. Un-lucky and the tape would curl around something inside and you'd have to open the unit up to remove the pieces of tape! Also they caused lots of broken car glass from people stealing 8 track tape boxes filled with tapes. Cassettes - Were a great medium for the day. Store bought cassettes sucked, the cases were thin, cheap plastic that would warp and stick in the player. The tape was thinner and would eventually get ate. The maxells were made to last forever (well a long time), I have tapes made in 1980 that still play just fine. I think all my cassette players also died from rotten belts. My old Sony Walkman's belts died about a year ago. And Jim, just to rub your nose in it (and top), I have the Cornell Limited wax cyclinder number 1 (lowest I ever got,,,, to date,,, I'm hopeing for better)
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7 years 11 months
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Just got my statement. They deduct the money when you order
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11 years 6 months
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I decided not to wait any longer. The question I have for everybody is does this mean they haven't figured the packaging out yet? Also wandering if they're trying to set a benchmark for future releases. Everybody keeps talking about the 78 box. I agree with Jim. The warehouse bankruptcy screwed this boxset up. By the time it was fixed we were preordering something else.
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11 years 5 months
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There is no truth to the rumor that they are just going to send out the discs individually using old AOL mailers.
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I'm not talking about this rumor. I'm asking if this means they haven't figured out the box itself. The stamping process has to be an issue in my opinion. I haven't heard of AOL mailers so I'm scared a little bit.
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Hahaha that's a good one. At the top of this page it clearly states: "The collection’s colorful slip case features original artwork by Justin Helton and a perfect-bound book with in-depth liner notes written by Dean Budnick, editor-in-chief of Relix magazine." Why then would anyone think that they haven't figured the packaging out yet? As for sending out the discs individually using old AOL mailers, well if you believe that then you are surely beyond help! @Romberg: If the packaging size is the most important aspect of this release for you, then I do not think it is a good idea to purchase this as it is a release where the music is the most important thing. However, as size is obviously also important, I can assure you that the music will be on standard size CDs which will fit into and play in any CD player.
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Gotta admit buying a music release based on the size of the package is a little bit wierd to me. I just put the discs in those God awful blank jewell cases and the box plus ephemera go a the end of my book shelf. Oh my did I say book I am a dinosaur.
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If ever there was a medium where size varies endlessly it is in the world of books. Try putting your copy of Chairman Mao's little red one next to your world atlas to see what size variations are possible. Typically, bookshelves are amongst the most unruly domestic storage areas that exist. Even libraries struggle. As for owning or even reading books being the preserve of dinosaurs, then I fall into that category of extinct lizards (though I consider myself neither a lizard nor extinct). Talking books? E-readers? Digital paper? Ain't no part of nuthin' as far as I'm concerned. Even better than a good book is a good map - you know, those things that you can unfold and never fold up again the same way as it was before.
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16 years 2 months
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It's all about the music!How about a beta-max release?
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7 years 8 months
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Man I'm devastated. As I'm playing Aja. And I Got the News. It comes on Walter is gone at 67!I'm wrecked on this.
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7 years 8 months
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Jeez. Ya'll this is one of my top 5 favorite bands. Some of the best music in the rock jazz idiom. Im gutted by this!May I suggest playing AJA today friends. We've lost a biggie today sadly.
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Me too. Flags flying at half mast today.
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16 years 1 month
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Walter Becker, quite the shock. I was a Dan Fan before I was a DeadHead. Gonna miss those guys, great memories of the only time I saw them back in 73, opened for the Doobie Brothers. RIP
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16 years 6 months
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Damn we're on the same wavelength at least in these areas. My friends keep trying to get me to go kindle....uh no thanks. And paper maps? The day they stop making them I'm screwed
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17 years 4 months
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....just loaded my CD carousel with The Dan. Devastating news. Sorry Honey, but this band will be playing all day today. Mrs.Vguy understands....every record is top shelf. They couldn't put a bad one out if they tried....stay strong Donald.
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17 years 4 months
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....I couldn't have said it any better. They were so good. And yes, it pains me to type "were"....there are tears
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17 years 5 months
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Steely Dan is such a perfect band in every regard. Just got tickets a couple of weeks ago to see them and scored great seats too. I can't imagine the tour will go on without him. When I first saw the news of his passing on social media, some were saying it was a hoax. If only that were true. A genius gone....RIP.
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I guess it is far to early to say whether or not the upcoming tour dates will go ahead, but today on the BBC, Donald Fagen said: "I intend to keep the music we created together alive as long as I can with the Steely Dan band." Whatever, it will never be the same without Walter Becker.
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Walter may be gone but the songs will live on.Fare Thee Well, Walter, wherever you are. You are truly 'Time Out Of Mind' now. We're gonna Break out the hats and hooters When Jose comes home......
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Steely Dan Sunday.......Citizen box set, and Alive. All day serenade. I really love their music. This morning I was going thru some of their songs and chord choices. The Mu of course but all the other sweet voicing and chordal choices. Just so damn tasty. They made such beautiful music and ran such wild lyrical compositions over them. I really aspire to try and reach just a little bit of the perfection they laid down.All this started with Glen Frey some time back and the roll call is getting heavier and deeper. I lay in bed most mornings in sheer disbelief that I'm 57 now.i don't feel anywhere close to that, and I'm grasping to any bit of my fading mis spent youth that I can get my liver spotted hands on. Hey Nineteen.........................
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The water may change to cherry wine.. And the silver will turn to gold.. Time Out of Mind.. I have been on a big Steely Dan kick lately. For like the last couple weeks its been dominant in the house. I did not see this one coming.. I'm touched to see the hype here, lots of Dan fans at dead.net. The songs they wrote are among the best written in our generation. Like VGuy said, did these guys put out a bad album?
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Hate to be the downer, but the shows were not that great. Ordinary set lists, ordinary length of shows for that year, and played in a ginormous stadium with less then optimum sound and a ridiculous size crowd.Re spring 90', listen to the 6 Sept. shows at MSG and tell me that wasn't one of the best runs in GD history. Extraordinary set lists jammed out and unusually long shows. I believe the 19th had a second set opener of Truckin>China>Rider that is spectacular as is the entire run.
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....asking if Steely Dan could release a bad album if they tried. Could they release a bad song if they tried?....Do It Again. . In the mornin' you go gunnin' for the man who stole your water And you fire till he is done in but they catch you at the border And the mourners are all singin' as they drag you by your feet But the hangman isn't hangin' and they put you on the street You go back, Jack, do it again, wheels turinin' 'round and 'round You go back, Jack, do it again When you know she's no high climber then you find your only friend In a room with your two timer, and you're sure you're near the end Then you love a little wild one, and she brings you only sorrow All the time you know she's smilin'; you'll be on your knees tomorrow You go back, Jack, do it again, wheels turinin' 'round and 'round You go back, Jack, do it again Now you swear and kick and beg us that you're not a gamblin' man; Then you find you're back in Vegas with a handle in your hand Your black cards can make you money so you hide them when you're able In the land of milk and honey you must put them on the table You go back, Jack, do it again, wheels turinin' 'round and 'round You go back, Jack, do it again . . .track one on their first record. It just gets better and better after that....
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....the most pointless list ever. Naming Dan records from best to worst. An exercise in futility....
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Nice to see an official RFK album. The most shows of any venue for me, as it was my local summer tour stadium. Fitting too as RFK will soon no longer be. It's last tenant (DC United) will be moving out after the season...So many fun memories there...
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I hate to say it, but Ive got a bad feeling with this one. Went to the store today and the madness has begun early as water is flying off the shelves as is Spam, chili, stew, canned veggies, canned fruit, and of course booze. This storm just seems to have the look of a real menace. We have all our supplies and are ready as we can be. But there will be some last minute people that are panic filled and finding nothing but beets and Walmart cola to buy.If you're in Florida. "Get Ur Done" tomorrow please! And batteries for your music players!!!!!!!!
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13 years 4 months
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I've been watching this one too.. I'm still holding hope it curves North, but recent tracking has it staying South. Good Luck Florida.. Haven't heard from Nano in some time either. Be safe everyone...
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11 years 2 months
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Rhino what's up with the pro-shot video ? Please include with Box-Set as Bonus Surprise. It's obvious whoever makes these decisions can surely make it happen. Audible the play call and add Pro-Shot Video !!!!! Also One Kind Favor , release performance of 7.5.81
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Just now learning about Becker from this board. I, too, was a "Dan" long before I was a "Head". Once I heard some Steely Dan in college, I jumped in the car, drove straight to the CD store, and purchased every disc they had (there hadn't been any reunions at that point.). They took all the wonderful oddness of Traffic, Genesis, and Jethro Tull, and made it swing, with a certain lightness that the other bands sometimes lacked. There's certainly some Steely binge-ing about to happen at my house . . . R.I.P., Walter.
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fedrd = 9/20/90. like it prefer Europe to MSG
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