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    marye
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    Got ideas for how things should be run differently in the Vineyard? Improvements? Suggestions? Brainstorms? Truckloads of fertilizer? Post here.,On the floor at MSG... one perfect song after another...and we were beyond elated with disbelief and gratitude. This was truely a fantasy set list and, in my opinion, the best of my 8 show run.

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  • Ltapilot
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    ohyea
    You are spot on with your thoughts. My lousy player in my truck does not support lossless formats so I have to make a choice. I can convert one show to WAV and fill up three CD's and I have clear and clean, highs and lows. With three discs floating around it is hard to keep every thing organized. Now if I convert the same show to a lossy MP3 I can get the whole show (sometimes 2) on one CD. I had to give up the clear clean sound with pristine highs and deep lows. In the truck at 75 miles per hour it does not make a lot of difference. To much road noise. This is a personal choice. If I were to vine or torrent that MP3 and the person who receives it try's to play it on his high end super system and it sounds like a tin can recording. I did not help enrich his experience I helped to degenerate it. This is not good and I have imposed my choices on him. This is why using MP3's for personal use OK but to trade or vine them is frowned upon. I have not been lucky in finding any factual evidence that lossless recording keep all of their bits and bytes in place when copied from copy's but I do know that is is frowned upon in more sites than this one. Some places will drum you out of the ranks for that infraction. I think we are a bit more enlighten here but as a courtesy to our fellow vines. PLEASE only send the original discs in a lossless format. Peace Rick
  • ohyeah
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    not to confuse the issue, but . . .
    So there's the media (the CDs & DVDs in this case), the player/recorder of the media (hardware, software, or, most likely, a combination of the two; in this case, a hardware CD/DVD drive and a software player), and the audio system through which one may listen to the audio signal from the player/recorder (computer amplifier/speakers, high-end home stereo systems, headphones, etc.). The quality of all three of these aspects can vary. For instance, as the original discs travel from person to person, they get scratched, nicked, blemished, etc. At some point, lower-quality CD/DVD drives and the associated software will not be able to correct the errors read from the discs. That's one of the big areas of variation among drives/software---the sophistication of their error correction. If someone with a lower-quality drive were to replace the scratched discs with new ones, the error correction issues go away, but now the errors that went uncorrected by his drive are burned onto the media. Even perfect error correction will no longer see the error, because to the software it's not an error anymore. Finally, the audio systems can vary . . . for instance, the volume (ie, soft/loud) and the frequency range of the music will change depending on the speakers/headphones and amplifiers used. Those are issues caused by the electrical design and performance of the gear. If everyone had the same gear and always vined the same files on perfect-quality discs, everyone would be presented with exactly the same music. But even then it would *sound* different to different people due to the last and perhaps most critical point of variation . . . our senses of hearing. But back to basic topic at hand, many people prefer lossless compression (SHN, FLAC, Apple Lossless, etc.) over lossy compression (MP3, AAC, etc.) because no information from the original, uncompressed file is lost during compression. It's a way to save file storage space without degrading file quality. Everyone chooses the trade-off they want to make between storage space and file quality, but in light of the low cost of storage I think many make this decision based on the formats' ease of use. It does take some time to get up to speed with SHN/FLAC in particular because of the lack of support for the formats in mainstream media players, both software (iTunes, Windows Media Player, etc.) and hardware (iPod, Zune, etc.). Arguably, Apple Lossless would be easier for more people to use and would still be lossless. But then some people don't like being tied to a closed-source, proprietary standard like Apple Lossless for fear that Apple will discontinue/change it; FLAC is open-source, so there's no issue there. SHN, interestingly, is not open-source, but the owners of SHN apparently choose not to try to exclude others from incorporating it into their software players (Cog, for example). I probably complicated the discussion rather than simplifying it, but that's my $.02. ~~~~~~~ "They say Cain caught Abel rolling loaded dice"
  • Ltapilot
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    Added noise
    Great discussions here, I am happy to see the interest in this topic.Please take a look at these pages for some impartial ideas. etree.org is a good place to start The Etree Wiki A rather technical discution of lossy vv Lossless Wikipedia's discustion of Lossy Comprestion Wikipedia's discustion of Lossless Comprestion Peace Rick
  • erickat
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    There seems to be a confusion of how copies work
    in the old days - the original source was read (IN) and converted from whatever source it existed on (e.g tape) and was passed through the machine mechanism from the IN section, through the MIXER section, to the OUT section, where it was replicated - along with any noise that was included along the way. However, Nowadays, with the Digital revolution, this is not the path of replication - it simply reads what is on A and writes it to B, in an identical fashion, so that if you make 500 copies of a source, they are all identical.
  • erickat
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    digital copies are exact - regardless of format
    If I send you a cd full of text files - or of video files, or of wav files - or of shit files. and you copy it, it is an exact copy - no loss - it's all digital - regardless of format your copy version is identical to the original - that;s the beauty of the digital age!!!!
  • erickat
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    here's the info i pm'd to you
    Lossless vs. lossy is an issue surrounding the compression of raw audio files, which can be quite sizable. in the old days, people copied cassette tapes, which introduced more noise with each copy. Now that we're digital, that issue goes away - unless you down-convert to some format like MP3, which throws away certain information in order to achieve a smaller size.
  • deadhead33
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    you'll have to excuse my lack of computer skills, but how do i use this lossless u speak of? Im always looking to expand my collection.
  • erickat
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    not true
    Derik,you said... if I copy the WAV disc you send me, and trade it to someone else, and they copy their disc and trade it to a third person, and they do the same, there is going to be some sound quality loss. this is cassette tape thinking - there is no loss in digital (cd) copying - it is true identical copying - no loss.
  • erickat
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    ok - i think i have it now
    The site has not been accomodating my previous efforts at posting.I feel compelled to state the following points 1.lossless is not a music format - it is a compression scheme. (shit converted to flac is still shit) The orignial recorded copy is in some sort of audio format - which then gets copied .... either identically ... or in a compressed format. If it gets converted identically, in the same format - it's identical. (takes more space) If it gets converted in a lossless format, it can be re-created completely. (takes less space) If it gest converted to a lossy format (mp3) - then the lost information is gone for good (whether you could hear the diference or not) (takes lots less space) Raw music takes up lots of space. You can keep it native, or compress it to any one of many formats - but some are "lossy" (mp3) and some are lossless (shn / flac). There are many others. What works for you is your own business - but don't re-introduce lesser copies into the "original" world - this is pretty easy to avoid. In the old days, cassette copying introduced hiss - this goes away with digital copies. shn / flac exist simply to provide for compression - they are typically converted to wav for playing. The wav stuff i put out comes from flac or shn sources, so it's identical to the source - just being shared in a different format. if you convert to mp3 for your own use, that's your decision - just don't re-represent it as lossless. (nuff said). But - the stuff I seeded is itdentical to the source!!!! 2. I typically make the determination as to format, based on volume if it's one show (2 or 3 cd's) i may put it out as 3 audio cd's (for convenience) - but it's from a lossless source. If it's more than that, I will just put it out on DVD - and find stuff to maximize the space (so u get more). if someone was to ask me to provide an mp3 version, i would feel comfortable doing so, with the caveat that it is MP3 and lossless - not to be mis-represented later. 3.I don't care what you do with it, after it leaves my hands - i will usually try to track a vine to see if it's been lost or needs a re-seed, but if you want to convert to wav, or mp3, it makes no difference to me - It's not about me - it's about you - and about the music getting out and about, so i don't mind lots of little efforts vs. one huge endeavor that lumbers about... it reminds me of a great wizard who wanted his legacy to be preserved. In one case, he simply dumped everything on the young apprentice - and said "there you go". vs. the alternate ending, which has the master stringing the apprentice along, with one discovery after another, one by one, keeping interest and building commitment over time until the apprentice has the same zeal that the master does - and is ready to take over. Maybe that doesn't apply here,.but it has been expressed to me that the mega-trawler ocean-going drag-net fish factory approach tends to kill the excitement of uncovering a special find - like a little show that you happened to be at (vs. "here's the19xx dump of all shows") - no, i have not been asleep for the last two months - or for any time - I;ve been here, and have been listening, and responding and will continue, dispite the lack of "superstar" status that has been conferred upon some who have arrived after me & sought the limelight to their own supplication - e.g. putting their name into each vine they seed, even if it's a group effort.
  • dstache
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    lossless v WAV
    True, erickat, BUT, if I copy the WAV disc you send me, and trade it to someone else, and they copy their disc and trade it to a third person, and they do the same, there is going to be some sound quality loss. There won't be as much loss as there would be with cassette copying, but there will be some, and as you get further away from the WAV copy you sent me (the original copy), there is more and more sound quality loss. The way I look at it, the first few generations (my copy, the copy I trade, the copy that person trades) has minimal loss. I would guess that the loss for the first 5 copies is negligible and not noticeable. But as you get further away, it is noticeable. I have WAV shows that I acquired from other people via trades and I have noticed some loss in sound quality with the sound being "quieter" than it should be. In the end, if you are just trying to get all the shows you can for your personal use, a WAV copy of a WAV copy from the lossless source is perfectly fine. But if you may be trading that show in the future, having the lossless source is better. Either way, there is plenty of room here at the vineyard for people to vine both. But please, NO MP3!
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Got ideas for how things should be run differently in the Vineyard? Improvements? Suggestions? Brainstorms? Truckloads of fertilizer? Post here.,On the floor at MSG... one perfect song after another...and we were beyond elated with disbelief and gratitude. This was truely a fantasy set list and, in my opinion, the best of my 8 show run.
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16 years 9 months
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The Who Springfield, MA 12-14-1975 master audience recording taped by Dan Lampinski. I would love a copy if it's out there.
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Guys, my computer crashed the other day and I am writing this from a friend's computer (mine is in the shop, supposedly can be repaired, circuit problem). I had that JT show on my list of shows to get, and I think there is another JT show he recorded, either from 75 or 77. Re: the Who, I would check that website we have discussed Lopezz; I bet it is there. And yeah, a second Lampinsky vine will be needed. JT, Supertramp, the Who, and there are a few other good ones I am sure.
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That Who show is on the web site. (http://qualitybootz.blogspot.com/) I can't get it right now, I'm having computer problems too. I was hoping Someone out there in Dead.net land may have it. UncleJon maybe?
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Working on the d/l now. "when life looks like easy street, there is danger at your door"
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The Who show is an really nice recording. Pulling down the Lampinski Moody Blues 11-23-78 now... "when life looks like easy street, there is danger at your door"
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This Who show is awesome! "when life looks like easy street, there is danger at your door"
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Does anybody have 9-23-76 Duke University? One of only seventeen times (according to Deadbase) the Boys played Morning Dew and Wharf Rat. Nice overall set list with a lot of B for A. I have no idea as to the quality of the playing, but I love 76. "That path is for, your steps alone."
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I have sbd.backus.14687, but am hesitant to trade or vine it as I grade the sound quality as only B+. I suggest going to archive and seeing if a better version circulates.
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"That path is for, your steps alone."
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sbd.backus but I'll keep my eyes out for some other sources... "Lazy lightning you say you never strike the same place. I want a double dose in any case" ... "You got to hear my supplication. Got to hear me now. A little bolt of inspiration"
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I'm gonna comment here because I don't want to piss off BJ or dissuade any non-viners from purchasing it. I am not excited about this release. Just as I have not been excited about most of the releases in the last couple of years. I think the early show is good (3-3.5 out of 5 stars) and the late show very good (4 to 4.5 out of 5). But both already circulate as A SBDs. Can someone who signed up for my 70 vine back me up there on the sound quality, if not the performance quality as well? I WANT to give the Dead some money. I feel that I owe them. But I don't want them to act like I owe them. And that's how many of the recent releases make me feel. This isn't a bad release. And if the show didn't circulate it may even be a good release. But because it already circulates as an A SBD, what's the point? I know, I'm jaded, and the more shows you get, the more jaded you get. BTW, I purchased 30 of the 36 DP's, both Winterland box sets, the 69 Fillmore box, plus many other official releases. I give the Dead money. But now, it has to be for something I really want. A show that doesn't circulate, or a very good or great show that circulates only in subpar sound quality.
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I'm sorry you feel jaded, dude. Your reasoning is sound, but... just think of those '77's that came out ... they were all A boards, too, but after the powers that be had their way with them they became absolute pearls!!! I'm really excited about the three disc format - I know that what is available for the 5/15/70 is eight discs (w/ NRPS), but maybe this will be a harbinger for shows that are three discs. We are, but a few, missing the absolute aural richness of these remasters because the HDCD format requires equipment we don't have. I'd like to hear a handful of the early Dick's Picks remastered with todays technology - especially 5/02/70!!! BTW, I can't wait to sample your next Pink Floyd vine - it looks killer. " Where does the time go? "
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I'm sorry you feel jaded, dude. Your reasoning is sound, but... just think of those '77's that came out ... they were all A boards, too, but after the powers that be had their way with them they became absolute pearls!!! I'm really excited about the three disc format - I know that what is available for the 5/15/70 is eight discs (w/ NRPS), but maybe this will be a harbinger for shows that are three discs. We are, but a few, missing the absolute aural richness of these remasters because the HDCD format requires equipment we don't have. I'd like to hear a handful of the early Dick's Picks remastered with todays technology - especially 5/02/70!!! BTW, I can't wait to sample your next Pink Floyd vine - it looks killer. " Where does the time go? "
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I'm sorry you feel jaded, dude. Your reasoning is sound, but... just think of those '77's that came out ... they were all A boards, too, but after the powers that be had their way with them they became absolute pearls!!! I'm really excited about the three disc format - I know that what is available for the 5/15/70 is eight discs (w/ NRPS), but maybe this will be a harbinger for shows that are three discs. We are, but a few, missing the absolute aural richness of these remasters because the HDCD format requires equipment we don't have. I'd like to hear a handful of the early Dick's Picks remastered with todays technology - especially 5/02/70!!! BTW, I can't wait to sample your next Pink Floyd vine - it looks killer. " Where does the time go? "
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I don't get overly excited about these releases. At least not yet! "Lazy lightning you say you never strike the same place. I want a double dose in any case" ... "You got to hear my supplication. Got to hear me now. A little bolt of inspiration"
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I just d/l'd, extracted, and converted to WAV the Who show. Then I logged in here and see that unclejon already snagged it. Unclejon, if you want to take the lead on a Lampinski AUD part 2 vine, with the 76 Jethro Tull show and the Who show, plus some others, feel free. There is a 75 Lou Reed show that I have been unable to download, and 76 Skynyrd, 74 Marshall Tucker, 76 Boston (whcih would be really cool but the band had sound problems and I don't know how it affected the recording), a 75 Jethro Tull, and a 76 and 77 Supertramp that I haven't tried to download yet. Those are the ones that I think look interesting, but there are others you may find so, and who knows if any others will be unleashed (a 79 Supertramp, Breakfast tour, would be awesome). Let me know if you need any help. Oh, and I got my computer back and it seems to be fine. There was a problem with the circuit board.
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I am out of town until next week and didn't want to coop the Lampinski movement from you. It'd take me another week or so to d/l anymore of the shows as I will be slammed at work when I return. I'd be happy to work on it with you though. If you have any of the other shows you mentioned let me know and we can put it together. I'll PM you and we can coordinate? "when life looks like easy street, there is danger at your door"
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I don’t know how they choose what to release, but 5-15-70 seems a fair choice to me. I am not sure we can expect them to second-guess what everyone already owns or analyse what is out there. What is often frustrating is not knowing exactly what is and is not in the Vault and so not knowing what they could have released (9/23/76 apparently is not in the vault unfortunately). Many of us have been howling for full shows and we have 3 or 4 discs with almost two full shows (albeit chopped up and mixed up). What tempts me every time a new RT comes out is the sound quality. I ended up buying an HDCD compatible player last year thanks to EBay. Maybe the Dead have shares in Microsoft (who own the HDCD patent). There is also some special feeling about having the CD set on the shelf, even thought I don’t care much for the RT packaging. Maybe instead of getting stressed about the official releases that duplicate circulating shows we should instead be grateful that there is often a free alternative for those short of $$. Plus you get an extra Deep Elem Blues that is not on any of the circulating recordings or on any of the published setlists that I have seen. How can you resist THAT? ;-)
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I am willing to put out some of my hard-earned bucks for a quality upgrade with stuff I already have. Also, looking at the comments, it appears that this release has been well-accepted by the community. "That path is for, your steps alone."
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RT vol2 #4 and I don't understand why they chop it all up and jumble the song order - like parts of May 26th spliced in with parts of May 27th. That doesn't make sense to me but whatever. I do like the last couple releases- 11-15-71 and 12-28-79 that were complete shows with the songs in the correct order. I personally would rather compromise a bit of sound qaulity in order to get the show unaltered. That's just me though... Like I have said before, I support the band by seeing them live and I do that a lot!! :-) "Lazy lightning you say you never strike the same place. I want a double dose in any case" ... "You got to hear my supplication. Got to hear me now. A little bolt of inspiration"
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The Philly 1989 release too! "Lazy lightning you say you never strike the same place. I want a double dose in any case" ... "You got to hear my supplication. Got to hear me now. A little bolt of inspiration"
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I am posting here because I know someone who reads these threads can probably help out. I recently received a vine and cannot locate it in the Forum to figure out who to mail it to next. (just a thought, if we write the vine on the outside of the envelope it might avoid these types of scenarios). anyway, the vine I currently have contains the following shows: 4-23-84 6-26-84 6-30-84 each show is two CD-Rs of FLAC files. it was mailed to me from a fellow viner in Alaska. if anyone knows which vine this let me know, I will look it up and get it mailed out ASAP! thanks
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A vine from that nice hippy guy. I think he had a 1984 sbd vine or something like that going. "Lazy lightning you say you never strike the same place. I want a double dose in any case" ... "You got to hear my supplication. Got to hear me now. A little bolt of inspiration"
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Thanks to Jackstraw and 1958 this vine has been identified as '84 SDB Part 1 vine. I have posted in the forum and bumped it up. Dave
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16 years 6 months
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There are a lot of stalled vines. It's been about 4 weeks since I have received a vine. I am still due to get about 15 of 'em but I doubt any of them will show up. Part 4 '77 was one I was looking forward to.
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I agree EDAD. Some have recently been re-vived but we have a long way to go. What I have noticed is that no one comes around the vineyard much anymore. That doesn't help. "Lazy lightning you say you never strike the same place. I want a double dose in any case" ... "You got to hear my supplication. Got to hear me now. A little bolt of inspiration"
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17 years
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just don`t post much anymore. " Life is`nt about running from the storm, it`s about learning to dance in the rain "
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"Lazy lightning you say you never strike the same place. I want a double dose in any case" ... "You got to hear my supplication. Got to hear me now. A little bolt of inspiration"
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16 years 6 months
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On some message boards, the "last log-in" date is shown beside the poster screen name. If we could see when some of these folks last logged in, that would help in figuring out if someone is reliable or not. I've got some '95 soundboards that I may plan to vine in the next month. I am a little hesitant because they are not in flac format. They guy who sent them to me left 1 second gaps between tracks.
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Hey gang, About 20 years ago Garcia / Costello did a few shows together in Mill Valley Ca. There are some boots out there and just curious if this has ever been vined or if someone is interested in starting a vine. From what I understand there is some great quaity material out there. Let me know and thanks . EJJD
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I just got a new cell phone , does anyone know of any cool apps ? Is there a Foobar app for smart phones ? Thanks . And yes a Garcia / Costello vine sounds good . Garcia and Hagar would be nice too . " Life is`nt about running from the storm, it`s about learning to dance in the rain "
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includes friends such as; Nick Lowe, Jerry Scheff, Austin DelLeone, James Burton, Scott Mathews, then later add in Charles Brown, Kim Wilson, Steve Straus, and later add Jerry Garcia & Pete Sears and then later Commander Cody, Sammy Hagar, Annie Simpson, Mitch Woods jump in and then Bob Weir decides to jump in. And it turns into a big jam session. This has 27 songs on 2 CDs. From Elvis playing solo (in first four songs) to adding the wide variety of friends that showed up to play with him. Is this what you all are looking for? The Truth is realized in an instant, the act is practiced step by step.
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Wow I just looked at the video , pretty cool !! Hey can anyone get ahold of that video ? It would be nice to see it all without the buffering . " Life is`nt about running from the storm, it`s about learning to dance in the rain "
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Can a request be made of Lemieux or some other to index exactly what is in the vault? Since, apparently, so much of it is missing it shouldn't be that hard to do and it would seem to help everybody out a lot in figuring out what to request/buy.
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17 years 3 months
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Yes Oroboros that is it. Is it out there on a vine or can it be vined? EJJD " the wheel is turning round and round"
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17 years 5 months
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it's in the queue. Soon come.
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Has anybody heard from Trevor? "That path is for, your steps alone."
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He was taking some time off, last time I talked to him a couple of months ago.
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I was a little concerned. "That path is for, your steps alone."
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I'll post a 4 show "best of" within the next week. I still have to listen to 2 more (4/15 and 16). I don't have the last show (4/17) of the tour or the late April and May California shows, but the latter aren't really part of the tour anyways. So far, I think 3/31, 4/5 and 4/6 are the best. I'm looking forward to listening to the final 2. 4/15 has a great set list (2 of Brent's best, Blow Away and I Will Take You Home, as well as Franklin's Tower, China/Rider, Playing, Terrapin and if that is not enough Dew). This will be like most of my other "best of" vines, meaning there will be 1 FLAC DVD, I will convert and burn to CD 1 show, and the first 3 people will each need to convert and burn 1 show.
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17 years 5 months
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Hard to believe it has been 15 years. RIP JERRY, and thanks for all the joy and goodwill you spread during your time on Earth. "That path is for, your steps alone."
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I've got a vine for him, but I have seen no activity from him in quite a while, and have not gotten a PM back. "And I love the life I live And I'm gonna live the life I love"
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He posted somewhere (can't remember exactly where) just the other day. "The dire wolf collects his due while the boys sing round the fire"
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16 years 4 months
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I will pop this vine out to him then. "And I love the life I live And I'm gonna live the life I love"
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I have been a poor vine'r for some months. I made it all right today and got all vines sent to me burned and out. Please forgive in my length especially with the 11 from 85' and 8 from Zeppelin. These vines are ALIVE AND WELL and in the hands of the US Post. "And I love the life I live And I'm gonna live the life I love"
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Good to see you back! "The dire wolf collects his due while the boys sing round the fire"