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    marye
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    When our previous topic hit the 1,000-response mark, sleazy behavior by politicians was eliciting a certain amount of non-astonishment.

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  • cosmicbadger
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    good for business
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/12/gun-sales-rise-arizona-shoo…
  • cosmicbadger
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    Many tools to kill people
    2008 Murders in the USA Total = 14,299 Methods used Firearms = 9,484 Knives and blades = 1,897 Blunt objects = 614 Personal weapons (= fists, boots etc.) = 861 Other (poisons, explosives, narcotics etc.) = 993 Source http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/law_enforcement_courts_pris… Lots of other statistics on that site yeah yeah I know the feds doctored the figures! Guncrime in the USA state by state: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state Yeah I know the Guardian is a left leaning newspaper so they probably made the figues up Murder rates per year per 100,000 population Mexico 15 USA 5 UK 1.28 France 1.6 Germany 0.86 Source: wikepedia yeah I know wikipedia is full of lies and is run by traitors, just like wikileaks
  • gratefaldean
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    Then only criminals will have guns
    Not sure what it is, but something about that slogan has always made me cringe in the most inexpressible way. But yup, that's what it means: if you have a gun, we take it away from you and throw you in jail. Makes it easier to tell who the criminals are -- they're the ones with the guns! I grew up in a house with guns. My Dad used to be (no longer is) a hunter. I'm the first-born, so I got the bulk of the indoctrination. And actually, I LIKE shooting guns. There is some fun around that activity. But put me out hunting and give the chance to shoot something that's alive...that part didn't take. I couldn't do it, don't want to do it. And I have managed to survive to age 55 without owning a gun, without shooting a gun since my teens. Good for me. I'll continue to take my chances. I don't begrudge hunters and sports shooters and folks who think they need guns to protect them and theirs. I do have a Big problem with where we draw the line -- a shotgun in your home is going to be pretty damn effective for protection...much less worrying about that pesky aiming that you'd have to do with the adrenaline pumping through your veins when the moment comes. A Glock with a 30-round magazine? We need that? Guns don't kill people...but people with guns kill a LOT of people. Peace, friends. Condolences to all the victims of violence, regardless of the choice of weapon.
  • johnman
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    The shooter obviously had mental problems
    and should not have had access to firearms, or weapons in general for that matter. The signs were there, and while the people that knew him saw the signs, no-one did a damn thing about it, now many lives are ruined and changed forever, including his. That being said, I can respect the opinions of people that are against firearms, I just can't agree with them. As long as the government has access to weapons, the people need the same access. I need to be able to protect myself, my family, my property. When seconds count, the police are minutes away and who the hell trusts them? And as long as I fear my government (and i do) I'll keep my weapons. I also agree with marye...the blame game doesn't help one darn bit. Ted...you're right....how CAN we learn and practice more tolerance and kindness?
  • JackstrawfromC…
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    There are many tools to kill/murder people
    Guns are only one of them. I'll be keeping mine thank you very much. But no offense taken if you don't agree. "It's got no signs or dividing line and very few rules to guide"
  • Gr8fulTed
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    Smirking chimp
    Tiger Lilly: I like the picture of our former president in the upper right corner. Gonz: If we outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns. To all: Peace on Earth & good will toward Man. Some of my Christmas cards say this. How can we learn and practice to be kind and more tolerant with each other?
  • TigerLilly
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    questions
    I think these are very interesting questions that we should be asking: http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/david-sirota/33623/the-tucson-shoot… ********************************** I am not young enough to know everything. Oscar Wilde
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    guns kill people, people don't kill people!
    The AZ tragedy is purely about guns, not superheated political rhetoric or anything else. Here in VT I can buy a pistol without waiting and carry it concealed. The availability of guns and all the evidence we have all over the world point out significantly that if this toolkit didn't have access to a gun these people in AZ would still be alive. Fuck the 2nd Amendment!!
  • marye
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    what I find depressing
    is the rapidity with which the increased-civility imperative in the wake of the shooting has devolved into the usual finger-pointing, protestations of aggrieved innocence, and assertions of victimhood by the usual suspects at all parts of the political (and other) spectrum. This is not helpful.
  • Oroboros
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    Some may disagree with this link, but some some may
    agree that the tone and tenor of the debate in America would improveif threats or allusion to violence were eliminated from the discourse. From the right and the left alike. This link does call out the far right as currently several will known figures are currently denying that anyone has made threats and this issue is a fabrication of the media and the left. In this day and age, whatever people have said is 'on the record'. http://www.truth-out.org/the-wrath-fools-an-open-letter-to-far-right666… The Truth is realized in an instant, the act is practiced step by step.
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When our previous topic hit the 1,000-response mark, sleazy behavior by politicians was eliciting a certain amount of non-astonishment.
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James Madison once wrote, "Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other." In armed conflict, he argued, "the discretionary power of the executive is extended ... and all the means of seducing the minds are added to those of subduing the force of the people.... No nation can preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." Nine years ago today, the roar of falling aircraft and crumbling buildings gave way to the cries of dying innocents, and that tragic cacophony shook this nation to its foundations. The echoes of that awful, unnatural din still resound in unwelcome ways. Who, for example, could have foreseen that it would crowd from our national conversation the quiet wisdom of voices like Madison's? Obama campaigned on the promise to end torture and shut down the gulag, but the infamous prison camp at Guantanamo remains, trials for accused terrorists have yet to be conducted and the "extraordinary renditions" reportedly continue. (We don't know for sure because they're done in secret.) Equally troubling, the White House reportedly has authorized U.S. intelligence agencies to kill Anwar Awlaki, an Islamic clergyman turned jihadist who was born and raised in the U.S. and is now hiding in Yemen. The summary execution of a U.S. citizen is something not even Bush and Cheney authorized. As former CIA Director Michael V. Hayden told the Washington Times this week, differences between the Bush-Cheney White House for which he worked and the Obama administration on these issues essentially are minor. "You've got state secrets, targeted killings, indefinite detention, renditions, the opposition to extending the right of habeas corpus to prisoners," Hayden said. "Although it is slightly different, Obama has been as aggressive as Bush in defending prerogatives about who he has to inform in Congress for executive covert action." Another unlooked-for consequence of 9/11 is that reasonable people see issues such as torture and access to legal redress for its victims as difficult questions. This week, a narrowly divided panel of the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that those who were tortured in America's gulag cannot sue for damages because the administration believes their attempt to obtain justice may reveal state secrets. The notion that evidence may be withheld from public scrutiny for reasons of national security is well established, but the idea that injured parties can be denied legal redress because the executive branch wants the matter kept secret is an appalling novelty. The story of how the Bush-Cheney administration rushed to make torture an instrument of national policy in its "war on terror," and of how it created an international gulag in which to abuse prisoners, is well known. Less remarked on — for reasons that do nobody credit — is the fact that President Obama and his administration have embraced the secrecy and usurpations of power that made possible the Bush-Cheney betrayal of American values. Tom Rutten, Op-Ed in the LA Times on 9/11/10 Is Obama just more palatable for a greater majority of Americans? Just liberal window-dressing for the same gnashing of fangs? I hate to point it out, but probably so. ~ The time had come to weigh these things ~
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Well said Gonzo
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Finally get a decent handle on the Boulder fire and now NW Loveland is burning down. A little rain please! "The dire wolf collects his due while the boys sing round the fire"
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Imagine a storm building, dark grey clouds covering the entire horizon. Then a few drops turn into a drizzle that turns into a steady rain that completely soaks the ground. Then it pours for a good hour and a half, but so much so that it floods even a small creek. Even the tiniest of animals find comfort and shelter. Imagine the last flames of this fire drowning quietly in the fall rain amidst the colors of turning leaves. May it be!
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not that that is unexpected in the Pacific Northwest. Wish I could box it up and send it where it's needed but I'll try to point wet vibes that way!!!
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"which side is johnman on, anyway?"...I'm fully aware that I cannot be all things to all people. I'm am constantly exasperated by the liberal/conservative points of view and I cannot completely espouse either side, I can only be true to myself. I'm not conservatively liberal and neither am I liberally conservative. Both sides are too damned elitist. I often feel that I am an Anarchist in the literal sense but not the accepted definition. I believe in a small government but one that must have teeth, and be there when the people need it, not telling the people how they should live. I believe in God, but don't accept the fundamentalist Bible thumping that most people see as "Christian" and isn't even close to Christ's teachings (and don't even get me started on those televised nitwits, and even THEY are not all phonies). I own, use and collect firearms, but I'm not a "gun nut". I love my country and would willingly die for her, but I fear the government.....so, I can only be johnman.... a Christian deadhead American who loves everyone, likes music, and is quite fond of cookies, beer, peanutbutter, cake....beer, and beer. If I could find a way to repay the kindness of the many friends I have found here I would be darn near satisfied, almost...sort of.
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Thanks for laying it out there so honestly, buddy. Isn't it amazing how this stuff pours out on an internet site where perfect strangers see it? Can't go wrong being honest. You're the Dude that Abides in Tacoma for the Biggest Dude in the Sky!!
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wagwagwagwagwagwagwagwagwag....(waving paw)
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Johnman and Lamagonzo, I am grooving on the verbal vibrations you two have humming coast to coast....The simple truth honestly expressed is a great and wonderful to give as well as to recieve....
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Gift, great and wonderful gift....
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are those poor guys trapped in a mine in Chile for 5 weeks. I think perhaps we should vibe them really hard that they get out safely. I saw on the news last night that the rescue equipment is being stolen from under the noses of the people working to free the miners. How RUDE!! The thiefs should be hung up by their toes, upside down! Also that the drill bit that they are using to drill a new hole broke yesterday. Hope those miners get out safely, and SOON! ********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain
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...the miners. What a sad story. It seems so unbelievable that they can get food and cameras down into the mine but can't get the miners out. That the rescue equipment is being stolen is also hard to imagine and testifies to just how bad things are in Chile. What is highly ironic is that Chilean government officials are walking around in red windbreakers looking for photo ops., as if they were saviors of the poor miners. These are the same bureaucrat fat-cats who regularly take bribes to allow the unsafe practices to go on that caused this accident in first place. Good psychology, nutrition and lots of benzos should pull those poor souls through, if they can dig a privy.
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Could be xmas by the time these souls are out they are drillimg three hole concurrently it is strange that lighting and stuff can be sent down but nothing is coming up.On a plus the authorities have sent down cigarettes all they need now is rizzla and a couple ozs of white widow and they wont want to come up.Much peace and love to you chilean miming dudes
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miming dudes trapped in a mine lol oh dear me lol
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With unemployment hovering around 240 million in the industrialized countries and about 34 million hardcore (six months or more) unemployed in the US there are reports saying that social unrest can be expected. These are the worst numbers since the Great Depression of the 1930s. The police chief of Britain says that his force may not be able to handle the situation. My feeling is that people don't riot unless they don't have enough to eat or a place to sleep out of the rain and the cold. The poor usually just bear their load in stoic silence. We'll see. Here in Vermont there is a push from certain quarters of State and Federal government (Sen. Bernie Sanders, only socialist in the Senate) for employees to own the means of production. The feeling is that they won't send their own jobs to China or India... Unless, of course, they become successful enough. Workers of the world unite!
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we also had a story in the newspaper about how one of the trapped miner's wife AND girlfriend running into each other when they came to the site of the accident. I could imagine that this poor fellow's gonna be miming like hell when he gets out! Guess maybe he's hoping they have time to cool down before he gets out. :) ********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain
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we also had a story in the newspaper about how one of the trapped miner's wife AND girlfriend running into each other when they came to the site of the accident. I could imagine that this poor fellow's gonna be miming like hell when he gets out! Guess maybe he's hoping they have time to cool down before he gets out. :) ********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain
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got impatient and posted twice.********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain
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but, it's a good thing they can send lights down, or the mimes would have a heck of a time understanding each other. I DO wonder how they can send equipment down but do not have the resources to bring anyone up........cigarettes, now.....do they really need them?...sounds like the right time to quit...no choice. As a non-practicing smoker of 13 years (you never really quit, the cravings are always there) I would say this is the perfect opportunity.
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you had been asking for more lighthearted news a few days ago-well have a doozy for you now! This article is a minefield of comment fodder, as you will see if you read this link. http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/75198 ********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain
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A CO professor fired for espousing ridiculous views after they muzzle his free speech by finding other grounds to fire him? That is far from lighthearted. Are you sure you posted the right link?? I would call it ominous. Our rights are being lost to Muslimaphobia, the same way they were in the 50s during the McCarthy hysteria over communists. Go ahead and espouse giving up our rights if you want to. You live in Germany. We have to put up with corporate rule in this country, bought and paid for. I am thinking of Dewlover now and his continued use of the term "Islamofascist". There is certainly a nasty backlash going on right now in this country and it is getting nastier by the second. people are hurting economically and they are looking for a scapegoat. Very scary.
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You must have read the wrong article. This one is about a UCLA study evaluating genital washing to prevent spread of HIV. Lighthearted bordering on ridiculous! $800,000 for that? Money well spent I guess! Sheesh! "The dire wolf collects his due while the boys sing round the fire"
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it's an article about uncircumcised males in Africa learning how to wash...with our tax dollars funding the program (hmmmmm...)
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"...the penis-washing study received money..." Well, yes, I think YOUR tax dollars should go toward African men washing their uncircumcised penises at least 12 hours after having sex, but not MY tax dollars. My tax dollars are being used to study the effects of cocaine on monkeys. I missed my calling in life. Little did I know the big bucks were to be made by being a researcher who hires a smart grant-writer. Worse than the military budget waste, I think.
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you'd think they'd be all over the place with that stuff. they need to start a study on the effects of beer and cookies on fat deadheads, so's i can volunteer....
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If miming dude has a lick of sense he'll have them bring his sorry ass out on a board. Maybe he can plot his escape from medical....
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to find stories like you are describing funny. Had a private field day of giggles and stupid puns in mind though about that tax dollars for penis hygiene article though! Wonder how much they paid the guys doing the demonstration of proper hygiene??? ********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain
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FC Barcelona 5 - 1 Panathinaikos ********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain
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A simple spelling mistake chilean miming dudes and look what it creates lol you guys are amazing much love and peace to you all.
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cheered me up no end then we have confusion over posting and pasting lol and then johnman i have this mental picture of african gentlemen scrubbing their bollocks with american tax dollars oh dear me lol.
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Luke angel 17 sat down on saturday night had a few drinks and watched a program about 9/11 he became angry, decided it was all obamas fault,sent the president an email calling him a prick.Luke has now been banned from entering the usa for the rest of his life,is it me or is this a bit exreme? YOUR THOUGHTS PLEEEZE.
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"sticks and stones can break our bones but namecalling (even at politicians) can never hurt us" or however that old saying goes. sounds like Luke is a moron, but that's beside the point. Calling someone a prick is not exactly kind, but is not the same as a threat. ********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain
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Jeez, wonder if he's on the no fly list?
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"IS THIS A JOKE???" "When it comes to humility, I'm the greatest!" - Bullwinkle Moose
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The Tea Party candidates did well. Here we have a party with no leaders bankrolled by the billionaire Koch Brothers that is about to throw elections to the Democrats by inverting the political landscape and putting foaming-at-the-mouth-radical-republicans in charge. I guess we should be thankful but I somehow agree with them (the moderate, non-racist, financial conservatives) who want to sweep out the career politicians. Except that leaves such a huge unknown it is unnerving. Look for a cratered political landscape after the midterms with Obama having a green light to push his agenda, do-or-die, till the next presidential election. Hope he grabs the opportunity by the balls.
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Missouri US senate candidates Blunt and Carnahan have been slamming each other since August. Yesterday, FOX & Chris Wallace sued Carnahan to keep her from using FOX broadcast material that shows how Blunt is in several lobbyist's pockets and may have taken the most contributions of anyone on the Hill. I say throw the bum out! The Party of No is driving me crazy. Other than that, I agree with 'Gonzo on Prez Obama making hay while the sun shines.
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He should have grabbed the opportunity by the balls some time ago! It took me a while to warm to Obama, but I finally voted for him because I thought he would do what he thought was right regardless of political considerations. That's what real leadership is! If Abraham Lincoln had been driven by public opinion polls I doubt that he would have been one of our greatest presidents!
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I fell for Obama and he's let us down the same if not more than the other Bozo's. I thought it would be different but it's not. He's insulting to the group's intelligence I won't list them all but this is where he started to lose me. All the new bills would be debated on CSPAN and posted on the internet at least a week before a vote. That would allow us to see who's doing what to us. The oil spill was next and really ticks me off, it took 6 days for him to comment, the ArmyCorp wouldn't let them build barriers under threat of prosecution, then turning down help from other countries. I do environmental compliance for a living and you would not be allowed to start anything with the potential to pollute without a comprehensive plan, (SPCC,DPCC, and others). They were inspected 3 months previous and were going to get an AWARD! Perhaps the last thing, but most important to me. Every-time he makes an address, he either points a finger at some one or insults or someone. I can't remember any Pres ever doing this. I listened to you guys and voted, something I won't do again, but I still Love you guys and everything we've been through. Hair Lyle Alzado
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I believe it was Nancy P from SF giving money to one of her kid's friends. They didn't say how much the original grant was, as this is at least year 2. It breaks my heart & pisses me off how far we've changed direction. As a result of bushes stupidity, the press has just ignored giving us the truth. They won't ask a probing question of this group in Washington at all. See how quick the tax cheating fed workers story was dropped. 1.3bil$ in unpaid taxes, 85 white house employees owe 1.8mil$ We would be it jail, wages garnished, property leaned on. They just chuckle and get promoted & raises. None of them have any respect, especially if it takes more than 12 hrs to wash your penis. Gasp! Nancy look what you've done!! Zippy for President 2012
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...Nancy should take less than 12 hours to wash her penis using tax doillars. I'm told hers grew there after her second term in office and now she is thinking of having it run for it's own seat in Congress. "Will the Chairwoman yield the floor to her squeaky clean penis?"
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It's frustrating to see the gridlock, the inability to accomplish goals set during campaigns, and then listen to the cries and deception of the likes of Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity and right-wingers writing on the web and in the papers. Imagine what would happen if Republicans actually gain ground and put Boehner in charge of the House? Not to say I'm happy with Pelosi and Reed, but the alternative is certainly repulsive to progressives like myself.
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They're the same, Man. Our rights are eroding either way. Keep their laws off our bodies!!! Oh and send some stimulants and money our way!!
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"One of the most bullish charts in recent times has been the path taken by the yellow metal. It's climbed relentlessly with barely a pause, but there's evidence it's due for a fall in the near future." So said one stock analyst on 9/1/10. Giess what? Gold just hit a new high of $1280 dollars per ounce today on the London exchange. I guess we can throw out all conventional analysis. The continuing strength of gold means that nobody has any confidence in the "perceived" worth of paper currency. Nor should they. The bearings on the printing presses are smoking and politicians are talking about new stimulus/bailout plans. (I'm not pushing any agenda here, certainly not the Palin/Beck tea-baggers). The truth is that there are so many scary variables in play that people are running for the high ground of the safest assets of what they "perceive" as the safest assets. You can't eat, heat, clothe or power your car with paper or gold. Scary thoughts for a Monday morning...
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Come back, and reading through this thread realize that it has become an actual source of news for me...look at everything that I missed! From penis cleansing to eating gold to something about mimers:), I find out things here that just don't seem to register in my consciousness otherwise. Thanks, folks....I think.