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    clayv
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    "Cause it's always like that with the Dead, you know - it's always the whole thing." - News Journal

    As we close out the 2019 Dave Pick's series, we deliver on our promise to give you the "whole thing" with the complete performance from The Spectrum, Philadelphia, PA 3/24/73 and what a show it was! An upstanding "musical eulogy" to the recently departed Pigpen, the Grateful Dead conducted a potent study in contrasts on this bittersweet night. They found easy balance between tidy jams like "They Love Each Other," "Wave That Flag," "Playing In The Band," and introspective moments on "Stella Blue," "Sing Me Back Home," and a poignant "He's Gone." It was all laid down with a discipline and a polish unheard of in any of the truly exceptional shows that had come before it. Yes, you might say, they cleaned up nice to carry on the legacy as Pig would have wanted.

    Limited to 20,000 numbered copies, DAVE’S PICKS VOLUME 32: THE SPECTRUM, PHILADELPHIA, PA 3/24/73 has been mastered to HDCD specs from the 7" and 10" reels by Jeffrey Norman.

    GET IT WHILE YOU CAN

    *Limited to 2 per order. Very limited quantity available.

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  • stoltzfus
    Joined:
    My disappearance didn't take

    Those who diss 9 2 83

    You are WRONG.

    Plenty hot.

  • carlo13
    Joined:
    Keithfan the wallbanger

    I was a freshman in H.S. at this time. I remember my uncle buddy had a homemade stereo and amp. With the colored lights and switches and the black and white 'the who' poster with the arrow pointing up from the big H. I also remember he had a Harvey wallbanger poster in 1974 which was the new cocktail at the time. Orange juice and Galliano. The old days.

  • KeithFan2112
    Joined:
    This guitar only has seconds to live....

    Daverock, hats off for knowing Pete's studio guitar on Who's Next. I bought the LP in October of '83 (I can remember an astounding number of dates up through college years). I was in 6th grade at the time, and had gotten into The Who shortly after It's Hard came out the previous year. I remember being hooked on Athena from the radio, and then Christmas of '82 I went up to Buffalo, where my extended family lived. My cousin and I spent most of our days listening to music (and eventually, most of our nights drinking). Well that year we delved into my Uncle's album collection, which consisted of at least 7 crates of rock music. He put on Baba O'Riley from The Concerts for the People of Kampuchea (excellent live version in their first touring year without Moon). We just kept playing it over and over, probably 20 times that week. I think it's safe to say that's when I became a Who-Head.

    Anyway, I'm babbling at this point, but let it suffice to say I eventually bought the Who's Next Deluxe Version, and learned through the extensive liner notes the history behind Lifehouse; the abandoned Who's Next recording sessions from the Record Plant in NY (featuring Leslie West on several of tracks; AND the the Gretsch 6120 he used to record the album, which was given to him by Joe Walsh.

    Rare trivia that perhaps only one other person I could think of other than Uncle Gary might be aware of off the top of their head, and that is Kevin Brandon, who posts here periodically and is also a Who-head.

  • Vguy72
    Joined:
    Marye's Wonder Woman comment....

    ....has left me scratching my head. 1984? Which is the name of the new movie?

  • KeithFan2112
    Joined:
    Ha marye

    Took me a minute to get your Wonder Woman comment, but now I'm up to speed.

    Checking out 12/12/72. I've had the Bird Song in a 73/74 Bird Song folder awhile, but the time's come to get more of the show in. With limited time on my hands, it's always the (75% of the time) reduced audio quality of the soundboard recordings that send me into the Normanized archives. But the tracks I grabbed from this 12/12/72 show (aka Return To Winterland) sound pretty solid from an audiophile standpoint.

    Me and Bobby McGee - exceptionally good I would venture to say.

    Tennessee Jed - this song has been steadily growing on me for 5 years. 1972-73 is real nice. It's the instrumental jam about 4 or minutes in

    Playing In The Band - as good as the Europe 72 versions are, they get longer as the year goes on, and they good longer in a rocked out jammin kind of way, as opposed to a spaced-out jazzy kind of way (which believe you me has its place in Dead Greatness).

    Even Around and Around sounds great.

    That's as far as I've gotten.....Keith is raging loud. I wonder if Betty recorded this. They're really all pretty much raging loud.

    I'm sure none of this 12/12/72 business isn't news to a lot of you, but it's melting my face at the moment so I thought I'd pass it along.

    **************************
    And Now For Something
    Completely Different
    **************************
    It would be awesome if they made software that allowed you to make your own mix from a multi-track source, and the CDs (like Veneta) came with a second CD / DVD that contained each of the tracks. Then you just open your software program, put your DVD in your drive on your computer, and load the tracks for each song. From there a virtual soundboard would come up that allows you to start mixing. Even cooler would be if there were effects you could put on each of the tracks. I would turn up Jerry and add more distortion in a lot of spots. I would turn Keith up on most of Europe '72, I would substitute Donna's scream on Playing in the Band with Daltrey's from Won't Get Fooled Again. I would have multiple mixes for all songs. Turn up Billy for that "rock out hard" mix.

  • daverock
    Joined:
    The devils in the detail

    Keith - I agree that The Who only really found their live sound once Townsend strapped on a Gibson SG. On the original studio album of Tommy, they still sound like a pop band to me. On Live At Leeds/Hull/Isle of Wight they were well and truly rocking out, 70s style. For better or worse.

    Interestingly ( if you are a nerd like me) the SG that Pete played actually had single coil pickups - P90s. Other players who used SGs with P90s on their early albums were Robbie Krieger, Santana and, surprisingly, Tony Iommi of Black Sabbath. And he had a sound that could topple a factory.

    Also...Pete's premier studio axe in the 1970s seems to have been a Gretsch 6120, albeit one loaded with humbucking filter tron pickups. That great guitar sound on Won't Get Fooled Again?...its a Gretsch Chet Atkins Country Gentleman by all accounts.

  • marye
    Joined:
    Wonder Woman
    has left the building. Moving right along...
  • KeithFan2112
    Joined:
    Guitars

    I am on the same wavelength as LedDed as far as Jerry and the Alligator Nash Strat (the Fender Strat has that smoothness about it that suited Jerry's style so well). Somebody on this site recently said that they couldn't think of anyone who made a Stratocaster sound as good as Jerry did (it may have even been LedDef). That comment stuck with me.

    But I also love the pure power and volume of the the SG that Daverock talks about. I think it's a toss up between Pete Townshend and Angus Young on who put that sound to greatest effect, as far as overall career impact. Townshend built an empire on it that far outlived his personal use of the guitar; you've only to listen to Live at Leeds or Isle of Wight '70 to appreciate what the SG did for The Who in '69 / '70. It's the guitar that gave Tommy a set of balls. It played a very similar role in the Dead's evolution as a band, and IMHO may have been the most impactfing facet of the Live Dead sound and success (along with the record's engineering distinction as the first live 16 track recording - this brought out an incredible "harmonic" that was spearheaded by the SG).

    But for me, the real magic would be taking somebody with the artistic virtuoso talent that might be very well suited for that smooth polished sound of the Fender Strat, and placing the Gibson SG in his hands. Imagine that. If only such a player existied. A slick player who is both fast and gentle, picking through the glowing hot interlacings of those sharp SG strings and unforgiving pickups. Whew. And then if he could glide seamlessly from lead to rhythm at need (whatever it took to serve the song). But alas, no such man exists.
    Just a fantasy band, so I may as well take a step further and pair this divinely talented wielder of the SG with a tight riff-master who could lay simple but tasty groundwork for our lead player to weave his way over, under, and alongside . Then you'd have the makings for something extraordinary and unparalleled. But this kind of talent.... simply...... doesn't...... wait.....he does exist! And his name is Reggie Hammond. No wait, that's a movie. His name is Mick Taylor.

  • daverock
    Joined:
    Great guitars

    I would say I prefer single coil guitars to humbuckers generally-although my tastes are more inclined towards telecasters than strats. I could list dozens of players, but mention of the great Otis Redding puts me in mind of Steve Cropper of the MGs, and all the great records he played on with Otis, and at Stax generally during the 60s.

    For pure sound + eye candy a large bodied Gretsch is hard to beat-especially a 6120 or a White Falcon. I'm lucky enough to have a 6120 with a single coil dynasonic at the bridge and a P90 at the neck, a la Eddie Cochran. I'm no great shakes on the guitar...but you wouldn't believe the sound this thing makes. You can get slapback echo even before you plug it in.

    With Jerrys SG I just liked the sound of the single string solos he did with it. You could perform open heart surgery with that tone.

  • Thats_Otis
    Joined:
    Let me c'mon home...

    ... Everyone that reads this message should go immediately to the nearest way they can listen to Otis Redding. I promise you will be happier after than you were before. G'damn MG's!

    Peace

    - Otis? I think he was only 26 when he passed... plane crash. Tell me he doesn't sing like a man that knows about it all. Kinda like Jerry.

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"Cause it's always like that with the Dead, you know - it's always the whole thing." - News Journal

As we close out the 2019 Dave Pick's series, we deliver on our promise to give you the "whole thing" with the complete performance from The Spectrum, Philadelphia, PA 3/24/73 and what a show it was! An upstanding "musical eulogy" to the recently departed Pigpen, the Grateful Dead conducted a potent study in contrasts on this bittersweet night. They found easy balance between tidy jams like "They Love Each Other," "Wave That Flag," "Playing In The Band," and introspective moments on "Stella Blue," "Sing Me Back Home," and a poignant "He's Gone." It was all laid down with a discipline and a polish unheard of in any of the truly exceptional shows that had come before it. Yes, you might say, they cleaned up nice to carry on the legacy as Pig would have wanted.

Limited to 20,000 numbered copies, DAVE’S PICKS VOLUME 32: THE SPECTRUM, PHILADELPHIA, PA 3/24/73 has been mastered to HDCD specs from the 7" and 10" reels by Jeffrey Norman.

GET IT WHILE YOU CAN

*Limited to 2 per order. Very limited quantity available.

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As I sit here listening, smiling--midway thru Disc 1 Jack Straw--I'm thinking to myself, "Ya know, I'd order a five-year Dave's Pick subscription if they offered it tomorrow"....then I thought to myself "ya know...shit, I'd order a life-time Dave's Pick subscription if they offered it tomorrow!!" Time for another beer.....

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Vinyl arrived today and already spun through once...this is an instant classic for me and will get multiple spins...all 3 discs are excellent, but highlights for me are Lay Lady Lay, Mountain Dew, and Don’t Think Twice it’s Alright/Understand Your Man outtakes.... but this whole set is one that I could listen to over and over!

#32 arrives tomorrow!

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In reply to by CaseyJanes

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Would love to hear more about how the sound quality is. Will not have mine in MN until Tuesday ☹️. For some reason, all year on the Dave's Picks for me have been 5 to 6 days past release date. I was lucky with the Giants Box, it arrived on the release date.

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16 years 6 months

In reply to by DeadVikes

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Don't know how they do it time after time. This is possibly especially nice. I just finished it. It was great

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10 years 6 months

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Got mine yesterday, at first, I thought it was another LP as it was a very small package for 3 pieces of vinyl, the format package reminds me of the gatefold covers of olde. Argent's "Ring Of Hands" and Johnny Winters " Live "
It is a great set of vinyl, even 'ere indoors ' commented on the Johnny Cash, my favorite part of the set are Sides 1 and 2 at the present time. DaP 32 may not arrive for another 3 weeks, so there is plenty of time to revisit this.

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To these rock-n-roll damaged ears, I thought the sound quality was outstanding....side note: my delivery order notice says/ and still says, "Monday-by the end of the day".......maybe I'll get two??....LOL

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My DP32 arrived today but only one of the two copies I pre-ordered was included. Prior to the warehouse transition I've always got what I ordered on time. Now nothing but delays and missing or damaged goods.

Now I play the waiting game, will they respond to customer service ticket?
I've already had several other tickets for orders go with no response yet in two weeks...

I guess I will hope for the best that I will still get what I paid for but they will probably be out of stock by the time they even read my customer service ticket. Someone needs to fix this mess..

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Am I the ONLY one, or is anyone else SICK and TIRED of the goddamn yellow box on the side telling you to get on the LIST???!!!

I'm on the fuckin' list already!

One fuckin line of code,,,, Is customer on list? Don't post yellow box! Seems like simple coding!!!

Good day all,,, time to rip in Bob for work tonight.

:-)

Thanks for feedback gents. Can't wait to get it next week.

In the meantime Winterland 73 has been getting a workout. Enough said on how great this box is. If any of you have missed this one, you can still get a used one on eBay or Discogs for under $150, which is well worth it.

Looking for some assistance with digital downloads. I have three from nugs.net, Download series 1, which is the 77 Palladium show from 4/30, this show kicks ass by the way, Download series 9 and 6.
All in ALAC loaded to iTunes and played through my Sonos system. All the songs have a 10 second audio out at the end of the songs, super annoying. Does anyone know how to get rid of that 10 second pause?
Much appreciated.

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17 years 3 months
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Had a tape of this show, then a digital SBD copy from Archive (before SBD downloads were verboten). The sound on Dave's 32 is an improvement. What a GREAT show!

I don't know if it's the luck of the draw, but I've had few problems with my orders over the decades. A few bad discs, that were promptly replaced. I don't gamble, but perhaps I should try my luck in Vegas (kidding, all the flashing lights in casinos spook me).

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9 years 1 month
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Arrived today, ahead of schedule, spinning Cumberland on disc 1 now. Sounds great, it's the Dead, it's from '73 - what more could I ask for?

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12 years 11 months
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..Has landed! Great show, sounds awesome! ;)

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17 years 4 months

In reply to by Moses Quasar

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....that's how they attract. Like moths to a flame. Will never find a clock in a casino either.
Good to see Moses Quasar is still here.
Also, good to see Cumberland representing. My ears definitely perk up when that comes on.

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I can usually eliminate any long pauses in GD shows by doing the following, keep in mind I have an older iTunes program.

1. Highlight the 1st song - unfortunately you'll have to do this individually for each song.
2. File > Get Info OR Right Click > Get Info OR Command/ 'I' All info for that song should appear.
3. There are 6 tabs at the top; choose 'Options'
4. The 'STOP' box with the song length should be there.
6. Check the small box to the left and adjust until it's exactly perfect.
7. Check the small box for 'Remember Playback Position' to the right of 'PLAYBACK'.
8. OK

Hope this helps, but like I said it's an older program.

DaP 32 has arrived today, and #991 to boot! Glad to have this one hassle free and really looking forward to spinning it as Spring 73 is the band's absolute pinnacle in my opinion. Shaping up to be a perfect autumn Saturday, cheers!

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7 years 6 months
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Ho boy!! Now the weekend is complete. Ok, beer, check. Cigars, check. Dap 32, check. Pretzels, check. Good times.

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16 years 11 months
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Everything that you think that is going to be good listening to this is!!! Here Comes Sunshine, Playing in the Band, China>Rider, the stand alone Stella, He's Gone>(all of Disc 3).... Loser, Me and Bobby McGee, and Row Jimmy sort of stand out also!!!

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9 years 1 month
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BobT is right. Finished a first listen and there is a lot of good stuff here, and that whole disc 3 smokes.

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14 years 9 months
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Hooray!!!

Heres 2 fasst delivery 4 everyone

Thank you for the info on this Dave, I appreciate it.
Gave it a shot, unfortunately no change.
It is 10 seconds of dead air, no audio at all at the end of the songs. We always want to hear the transitions to the next song, very important. Maybe this is why the download series was short lived?

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I was thinking last week that you were probably the last guy to change his profile pic. And look at you now. Aren't you afraid that it might change your luck by getting rid of the lucky 7. If your going to play craps this week put me down for a two two on the hard four. $100 bet.

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17 years 4 months
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I downloaded all the Download series releases as they came out. I cannot remember precisely what I did but they were certainly downloaded to a Windows computer and burned to CD using EAC or Nero (I cannot remember which). Tracks are contiguous i.e. no 2 second gaps or 10 second gaps between tracks. I did not use iTunes or anything Apple at any stage of the process. The Apple part could be what is causing you problems.

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Anyone else in the US that was a subscriber not receive a shipping notice for 32 yet?

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Here trying to re-rip some of my GD collection and I'm noticing disc 1 of Rocking the Cradle is not ripping for me. I looked at it and noticed incredible scratching on the disc surface. Funny thing is I took a glance at the rest of the set and they look relatively pristine! Help! :-)

P.S. Buses

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Is the one skipping most badly. I've scoured some of my backups and most of my archived copies seem fine except track 8. Anyone have that one track in FLAC?

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In reply to by wilfredtjones

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....notice would say Monday, so I’d stroll on down to the ole PO, and usually on Saturday there’d be a key in our box for one of those package boxes, and there it’d be, a new Dave’s or whatnot, in all its glory......last several releases, the torturous bastards haven’t been doing that, just the slip in the box, which one of us now has to try and get down there during their banker hours (when we’re supposed to be at work), and then stand in line for usually between 10-20 minutes and wait. Plus instead of having alllll day today to enjoy, I already know I’m not going to have enough time to sit down and actually LISTEN to the whole thing until next weekend, uugghh!.....really like to do that at least the first time, ahem, sorry, I’m whining like a little beeaatch, and yes I’m am jealous of all y’all that have or are going to wallow in the Golden yummy splendor of this magnificent gift from yee ole GD Gods!! Fuggin 73 Mates!, 73! Well, cheers to all you lucky Chil-rens that got yours, Enjoy!

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Finished this one up in the wee hours of the morning and man is it good. Sound quality is pristine. There are so many great shows in this series now that it gets tough to rank them, but this one jumps immediately into my top 5!

Highlights for me:

Disc One:
Cumberland
Box of Rain
Row Jimmy
Wave that Flag (fun to see the early workings & development of this one)
Disc 2:
Here Comes Sunshine
Me & Bobby McGee
China Rider
Stella Blue
Disc 3:
The whole damn thing fucking smokes.....gonna have to put it on again right now!!!

Enjoy this one dead peoples.....it really is something special...we are a super lucky group of robots!

Happy Sunday Funday!!!

KCJ

Oh and for those interested, here are the timing sequences for the songs on Disc 3:

He's Gone> (13:52)
Truckin> (10:04)
Jam> (22:30)
Dark Star> (4:10)
Sing Me Back Home (10:03)......(I really love this version)
Sugar Mags (9:43)
JBG (3:55)

I have the Download Series but no 10 sec. gap during any songs on any of the releases - anyone else have/don't have gaps with the Download Series? I'm using a MacBook Pro and just the usual time between songs with audience noise/clapping.

Well that's encouraging news. Thanks KCJ.

I think the next show (3/26, Baltimore) flows nicely after listening to this one. If it were me, I would release them back to back (or at the same time somehow). Fond memories of these two, so glad half the duo finally got the Full Norman.

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Got mine yesterday even though the tracking info said end of day Monday. Pleased to get it on the weekend, but like many of my fellow adult Deadheads, not enough free time to listen to it all yet.
First impressions from giving it a test drive while running errands around town:
Bertha - Fair to middling opener with funny blown "cue" by Jerry; average version.
Beat It On Down The Line - Oof. This is rough. The off-key Donna vocals are in full force. Hoping for better from Bobby on later tracks.
Don't Ease Me In - God, I love this song. Not a great version, but so nice to hear a young Jerry singing this.
The Race Is On - Pretty solid '73 version, nothing remarkable.
Cumberland Blues - Surprised to read so many positive comments about this version; didn't make an impression.
Box Of Rain - Quote from headyversion.com: "Seriously, this is awful. The only listenable versions are Sep 17 1970, and the two "breakout" versions in March 1986 (20 and 24)." Sounds about right.
Row Jimmy - Okay version. Doesn't have the shimmering quality of some of the Winterland '73 performances, but pretty good. Donna damages it, of course.
Jack Straw - Quality drop-off from the '72 versions, but not bad. Unremarkable.
They Love Each Other - First big highlight of the show. I love the bouncy versions of TLEO, and anything slower than the studio version on Reflections sounds like a dirge to me. This is a pretty great one with no notable fuckups.
Mexicali Blues - Better than the other Bobby performances so far; good version.
Tennessee Jed - Decent but, again, unremarkable.
Looks Like Rain - Jerry seems to have found a way to replace the lap steel from Europe '72 with a weepy guitar sound; unfortunately, this version is marred by Bob's vocals ranging from too quiet to too loud, and I had to adjust my volume up and down multiple times; background vocals predictably off-key.
Wave That Flag - Another pretty good version, as this develops toward becoming U.S. Blues.
El Paso - Okay version to end disc 1 on a bit of a thud (unless you're a HUGE El Paso fanatic); overall impression of this first disc: I might pop it in to hear the TLEO again some time, but that's about it.
CD 2
Here Comes Sunshine - Really nice, tight version; under 9 minutes, so it leaves me wanting more; some of the guitar work toward the end sounds distorted, but I can't tell if that's Jerry or the tape.
Me and Bobby McGee - Second surprise highlight after TLEO. A very solid version (although the drums at the beginning are surprisingly weak and plodding...weird); Jerry's bg vocals are priceless, and make me wish for more bg vocals from him and less from Phil and Donna.
Loser - Man, who doesn't love Loser? A very solid version. Jumped over to headyversion to look for comments on it, and there are none! Someone who posts there should give this bad boy a vote.
Playing In The Band - This is where my listening had to end. What I've heard so far sounds pretty good, but only made it a few minutes in before I had to bail.
Looking forward to the rest, but hoping for fewer (or lower-in-the-mix) Donna & Phil harmonies. The high ratings for Sing Me Back Home lead me to believe she may have actually hit a few on-key notes during the course of the show.
Will try to post more later in the week when I get a chance.

I was standing in my driveway yesterday when the USPS truck pulled up and the guy handed me a DaP 32. I told him that tracking said delivery on 11/5. He said that it did in fact arrive on 11/5 but he thought that I should have a weekend to enjoy it so he borrowed Jim’s John Deere and brought it to me on 11/2.
So, thanks Jim.

Made it through the whole thing yesterday and didn’t notice any skips or defects.
Listened to CD3 again last night once I was nicely marinated and holy smokes!! Smokin’ playing there and sound quality is amazing. The Jam has bits and pieces of just about everything you would expect from that era and then the quick Dark Star proper and a smooth slide right into Sing Me Back Home.
Pretty sure I listened to CD3 at least twice, but that’s where it gets a little fuzzy......
.......woke up at 11 am today, took the dog out, started making coffee, then realized that it was only 10 am.
Crap, forgot about the time change, could have slept in longer. Oh well, coffee is already brewing (super dark roast Columbian that I roasted myself - another thanks to Jim for convincing me to buy a roaster a few years ago) Might As Well take advantage of this extra hour and get started on a second listen to DaP 32.

Yes, an excellent choice Dave. Mighty fine mastering Norman.
Quality playing (currently on Row Jimmy) and excellent sound. Lots of Phil, had the house rattling yesterday. Drums seem at an appropriate level, no excessive kick drum like in 74.

Oh yeah, just remembered that last night after a Donna wail I concluded that I would take any Donna wail/scream over Wave To The Wind any day.

Credits:
Recorded by Rex and Kidd.
10” tapes provided through the assistance of ABCD Enterprises.

Thanks again ABCD!!

Here’s the story on ABCD for anyone who doesn’t know.

http://www.legalnews.com/detroit/1457673

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In reply to by icecrmcnkd

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We must be listening to different shows because I didn’t detect any of the negativity that he seemed to find.
Probably because I went into this with an open mind and open ears. Wasn’t trying to compare it to other 73 releases, and I don’t pay attention to what is written on heady version.
We’ll have to wait for Vguy to give his verdict on Cumberland since he’s a big fan of that song.

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Thanks for helping! :-)

Hilariously Deader-than-thou response. Did I really just read a post implying that I don't go into a release with an open mind and open ears? Did this smug person read my post with an open mind?
The irony is so thick, you could cut it with a knife.
Yeah, man, we must be listening to different releases. Hooooo... (eye roll).

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10 years 8 months
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Can't be sure what show arrived for Mr. Heartbreak, because we listened last night to the first set, Bertha thru Playing, and to our ears, this show (3-24-73, right?) is outstanding! The playing was so engaging and the sound quality so amazing, this is rated top shelf in my world. No work to listen, the band was in the zone and the well-articulated parts meshed perfectly. This show is in that top tier where there's no call for ranking anything. It's in the pool of those shows where it sounds effortless and that attracts the ear. As I said, no work on the listener's part to enjoy.

If any of this show sounds "meh" to you, may the gods have mercy on your soul.

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14 years 9 months
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Would reeeeeeeeally like 3/21/73 to join this March/April constellation.

No complaints from me at all.

Following up 3 24 73 with 7 7 78, an O.T. show. Original Tape from the early 80s.

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6 years 9 months
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Don't have mine yet. Is Donna having an exceptionally bad night, or is she on par with her usual sound?

I was thinking Dark Star would be the defining track on this set...but looking at the timings, its only just over 4 minutes long! I notice the jam leading up to it clocks in at over 22 minutes though. I think of Dark Star as being a jam more than a song anyway, so maybe its not so clear when the so called jam ends and Star begins.

Looking forward to getting it however the dice falls.

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17 years 4 months

In reply to by Trainwrecked

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....I don't play craps anymore. But when I did, it was 6 & 8 all day. Hardways are a sucker bet.
....edit. just as I posted this, daverock posts a comment of letting the dice fall. Amazing!!

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