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    marye
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    Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

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  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    More shows

    That’s all I ment.
    Everyone’s made good points, and there’s no easy answer.
    I was going for a conversation starter more than just to editorialize.
    Like most things, no easy answers.
    It’s just now that I’m all addicted to this collecting nonsense, I need as many RJ shows as they’ll give us, and I’m afraid things are going to start slowing down, and eventually it won’t be worth it to them, and so many great shows will never get fixed up and released. And don’t you worry 1stshow ole buddy, there’s still plenty of RJ shows in the vault.
    As a rabid nut trying to tag as many of em as I can before I croak, I’m here to tell ya there’s plenty of gold left in them there hills! Yes many are cassette, but the gang has been getting better and better every year at fixing em up!
    And, there’s still lots of DATs and still a decent amount of killer multitracks, all just rotting in the vault!

    I totally get what yer saying, but think of it this way: suppose the summer 78 box was never released and only a couple others from that year. If they came out and said “this is your one chance to get the 20 best of 78”, including those shows in the July box, would you not find some way to get it? For sure, not everyone is going to want all of em, but I think you’d be able to scrape up at least 10k folks who would want at least one or 2?
    Really they should be digitizing them all, or at least the top 20 or 30 from each year that haven’t been released, and have a system where they announce a certain number, or block at a time, and do pre orders, to have inventory control.
    Some shows might sell big, some not so much. Perhaps have a rule that shows that don’t meet a certain threshold won’t get released?
    I guess the solution would involve somehow having a cost effective way to prep them, but pre order so you don’t always have to have such big sales numbers for every show? Perhaps DL like you say, but that hasn’t worked so well, so far anyway…
    Again, no easy answers, and I totally understand other pov. I just would hate to see so much good music not get the treatment it deserves. And yeah, the archive is awesome, but there’s nothing like getting a great show that’s been fully fixed/Normaned!

    Hey DV, where ya been hiding? Good to see ya, and sorry, I won’t mention you know who. It has got to be really tough being a fan. It’d be one thing if they just stunk, but they have potential, if only they could stop beating themselves.
    A well, it’s early still…

  • DeadVikes
    Joined:
    Releases

    Would love to see more shows released. My preference is still CDs.
    It would be interesting to know what the terms of the contract are with Rhino? Are they able to release as much as they want or are there limits?
    Do they even have the ability to release more per year then they currently are? Is Jeffrey Norman able to mix and master much more than he is now. He might need help. Maybe you could assist OB?

    There are some shows they already mixed and mastered that could be released on CD. For example, the two shows from the first Road Trips that they released as digital downloads, 11/5 and 11/6 1979. Also, the shows from the download series.
    Would also be interested in more video. Why not release the shows from the MUATM. They did this with the 91 show in the Giants stadium box, but would love to see the others released at some point. The 91 Chicago show was really good.

    Okay, seems others are talking about 1988 for #48. We will see next month.

  • 1stshow70878
    Joined:
    Box discussion

    I'm a dinosaur as Oro describes it and know zero about streaming and how younger folks get their music, movies, and TV but I'm guessing the Dinos are the ones buying hard copy CDs. My question is, if the '80s and '90s scene was populated by more younger concertgoers in huge stadiums in numbers way beyond the earlier shows shouldn't there be a demand for those shows in a format they like? I'd bet lots of folks will buy a show they attended. Mickey's model may fit that some day. That said, I'm ignoring the fact that some earlier shows had attendance in the 100,000+ range (Englishtown?) but there were just a few of those. I know Dave said that the last increase to 25,000 copies per release would be the last increase and maybe that's the limit for profitability for hard copy. I'm guessing the download option would be more profitable regardless of sales numbers (if they could ever get the damn things to work!) as all you need is a bank of servers and a few tech savvy people to run it. Large box offerings could be done as a pick and choose your favorite with quantity discounts for more shows. I know I won't be buying twenty shows from individual years I don't like as much and there is likely some truth in the theory that a good portion of "the good stuff" has already been released. Seems like, as with many things, tech is going to have to save us in this dilemma. Affordability is key either way. I can't afford $500 boxes even if I like the offering. It's as simple as that. So Mickey, let's get digitizing! Us Dinos will just have to figure out how to download and stream.
    Cheers
    Oh, and the price of the downloads needs to come down. Currently makes no sense if the price is almost the same just without the shipping. No incentive to be green.

  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    Y’all are missing the point…

    I’m not talking about preferences, if I was, I’d be down with Conekids idea.
    I’m talking about the reality of only a somewhat limited number of boxes getting released.
    Their not going to do this forever!!!
    For example, say they only releases 8 or 10 more years at one box a year.
    With 3 show mini boxes that’s only 30 more shows. Plus say 40 more Dave’s. (4x10).
    There’s still way more than 70 great shows in that vault…
    My plan,
    25 for primal 67-70
    15 for 71
    20 for 72
    20 for 73 (at least!
    ? 74 might just be mostly scraps
    20? for 76? Maybe
    77 is already over represented so he can spit the last few out on DaP
    20 for 78
    20 for 79 and 80
    20 for 81 & 82
    20 for 83 & 84
    20 for 85 & 86
    20 for 87 & 88
    20 for 89 including fall tour (alpine should be a stand alone
    90 not sure you’d need to do 20 as it’s already fairly represented?
    20 for 91 & 92
    20 for 93-95
    These plus DaP and special separates and one might say we’ve received most of the best!
    Take pre orders plus run an extra 10% so your not stuck with inventory but have a few for Johnny come latelies…
    You could still make them “limited”…
    Release 2 a year, everybody wins cept maybe the finicky heads who probably won’t buy much more anyway…

    Voila, all hardcore heads gets represented,

    And remember when Mickey made his bold pronouncement about making all shows available (about the same time he said Phil must have got the liver of a jerk) .
    But I’m sure things won’t change, sales eventually will make cost prohibitive and the vault will go to waste, but hey at least we will have most of 77…and four versions of October 74…
    Think about the cruel reality of only 3 to 5 shows a year for only 8 more years….the horror!
    Tic toc…

  • daverock
    Joined:
    Winterland 74 box

    Yes, next year hopefully - vinyl too. Bit of leisure wear to listen to it in. Nice.

    Mini boxes score where you might not want 17 shows or whatever. I wouldn't mind a few shows from Europe 1990, having attended the London ones - but I'm not sure I would want the whole lot !

  • icecrmcnkd
    Joined:
    Winterland Oct 74 Box, and we need more releases Dave/Rhino

    Hopefully it’s moving into production soon so that we get it for the 50th anniversary next year.
    With all the video included.

    I’ll take mini-Boxes.
    3-show mini-Boxes, released once every other month, and not during a month where a DaP is released. Thus, the DaP’s and mini-Boxes would give us a release 10 months out of the year. The other 2 months would be RSD and Black Friday RSD.
    Sounds like a grate plan to me.

  • JimInMD
    Joined:
    Winterland

    Agree..

    Can anyone tell me why we did not get a Winterland '74 Box Set? The box design would, of course, been a mini Wall of Sound.

    Wars have been fought for less.

    Oh, the horror.

  • wilfredtjones
    Joined:
    Winterland Box(es)

    Would you like yours in a mini or mega? 1972, 1977, 1978 still ripe for the picking. Added together that equals mega I'd say. Taken alone some fine mini ones there. I think there's a New Year's 1971 available yet to add...

    P.S. Currently spinning the space jam from 10-18-1978

  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    Stuck in the mud…

    Made through 5/4 and sorta first run of 5/7 (on crappy device while working) But got bogged down this week with mucho fuckery and distractions so lost my pace and mojo, hoping I can catch up this WE…
    ONWARD!

    NO MORE MINI BOXES!
    Every piddly little release is one less possible future box! Like most things there’s only so many, nothing lasts as the pranksters say…
    We’re running outta time so we need huge boxes with the best remaining 20 shows from each year.
    Perhaps more from years they’ve been stingy or ignored.
    This ain’t no party, this ain’t no disco, this ain’t no foolin around…
    Seriously, sales are flat, saturation for some has set in, old heads don’t want any newer stuff and/or are dying off etc, yeah, this could all go away sooner than later. We need to demand more output for the faithful, and stop worrying about the picky folks who only buy limited things. I totally understand not buying things you won’t use, but if we don’t support these releases, eventually, they’ll just stop!!
    They need to quit dicking around, otherwise,…..Smithers, release the hounds, it’s time to quit screwing around and storm the vault! Where the hell is Keithfan anyway? Thought he was getting close? Hear sound of foot tapping…AND,
    Hey Mickey, what happened to “everything’s going to get digitized and you’ll be able to order almost any show” (paraphrasing).

  • daverock
    Joined:
    Mini boxes

    Maybe they could do that with vinyl releases, like they did with The Lyceum shows. Although I get the impression it didn't sell particularly well.
    I tend to segment them myself, when I listen to them, although I'm glad the cds were released in that mammoth box. I listen to most of them every year - but I couldn't do it consecutively, one show another in one chunk. I take all year about it - then come Spring in the following year...start again.

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Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.
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In process and it has been a while. Sound quality from my perspective is somewhat lacking. Love the Dupree's, It's all over now, good Passenger, Brown Eyed Women. Just finished Eyes, really good. Again, wish the sound quality was better.

Thanks Bolo and Mary!

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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Disc one is fun (it's a mix of several shows, me remembers...CR&S is always welcome)
Disc two is sublime. Eyes, Playin' > Wheel > Playin'. I do notice some sound quality issues at times, but they are not horrific and permanent. I remember the Playin' is good as always, and then gets reeeeeeally good
Disc three is phenomenal. As I listened recently, I remember smiling at the glory of the show. Scarlet > Fire, Truckin' > The Other One > Wharf > Around

the Madison show took place about 50 miles north of where l lived at the time. but since I was in 8th grade, I had no clue or awareness of that fact.

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One of my favorites Scarlet>Fire's of all time.... Also love the Samson when after a prolong opening jam Weir does the woohoo type of shout out!! I've posted about the Scarlet>Fire before but there is a Jerry Keith chord interaction after the singing in Scarlet that for me is mind melting!!! Good first choice Bolo... One last ramble, for me this show 2/5/78 is in my mind is the last show of 77... The April tour after this has a different vibe..

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....listened to the first disc last night. Cold Rain, All Over Now, Duprees and BE Woman all top shelf renditions. Man. Iowa got all the good shows. Will start up disc two a little later.
Thats the show with the extended Samson due to Bob's mic difficulties, correct?

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A few momentous stand outs for me: The Music Never Stopped; this version easily made it onto a "best of" compilation early on and has never been supplanted. Fight me. Also, the Estimated > Eyes of so so good. Beautiful elongated Eyes intro, then just mad jamming all the way through, nice upbeat Eyes tempo. Great exploratory Estimated as well. I love the drop into Eyes here; expertly pulled off. The Scarlet > Fire is very awesome too. Long, jammy. Nothing new here, just adding my love.

Nice idea.
Sixtus

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The first thing I noticed is that it features two nights, but unless I am looking in the wrong place, there is no indication which nights which songs are from. I could have checked in Deadbase...but that's upstairs and as I was settled down to listen I didn't bother. It looks like one first and two second sets.

I have just played the first cd so far. Coming from Europe 72, this sounds a lot simpler rhythmically. During Spring 72, you can focus on Bill, Phil, Bob, or Keith - as well as Jerry obviously-and they are all playing with energy and imagination. Here, the focus is more just on Jerry. I like his fiery guitar sound on here, but I am not as keen on Bob's sound. Donna, on the other hand, sounds nice on Looks Like Rain. I prefer this version of Good Lovin to the ones played in 72. It sounds almost calypso-a real celebratory sound.
The cd picks up pace nicely on the last three songs, with great guitar solos from Jerry. It seems a bit more like standard "rock" in a way, compared to the swing they had with one drummer and a fully functioning Keith. I enjoyed listening to it, but I will probably leave the first of the set 2s for tomorrow.

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Not much left to say LLR crackled like a thundercloud!

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....Jerry fresh off his laryngitis. The crackling in his voice during Wharf Rat proves it. His voice was never the same, but still rocks my soul.
Trey Pistachio dropped another song. "Are You There Colleen?". With a message of getting off drugs. Methinks Colleen was his dealer back in the day. Might be wrong. Never right.
I had a dealer back in the day. Name was Chill. Called him from payphones. That was a long time ago though. Thank God.

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At the start of 1978 I'd sort of lost interest in the Dead, having last seen them in 74. 78 was my fifth year in college (yeah I know) and I was way more into jazz than rock in large part due to an awesome jazz club on campus, the Backdoor. The place just had a constant stream of major talent coming through. McCoy Tyner, Charlie Mingus, Elvin Jones, Roland Kirk etc. So in early January I see the Dead are gonna be at Golden Hall so my girlfriend and I say "What the hell?" and I get tickets for 1/07. Now in 78 the Dead were not that big of a draw and I wasn't expecting much, sort of a nostalgia trip. Wrong. They were great, just awesome. So after the show we immediately get tickets for 1/08. These were the Bobby songs only nights but that didn't matter a bit. My girlfriend (now my wife) cried during Looks Like Rain. We were back on the bus until 85 when the arrival of our first kid changed everything. Footnote to that is our last show was a week before his birth and she was major prego and treated like royalty by all you wonderful heads. So I love DP 18 and I especially like the Eugene show release. Stay home.

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Nice! I'm overdue for a listen.

RE: DP18, agree with Jim - Brown-Eyed Women is PERFECT! For that matter, so is TMNS - powerful! And then there's disc 3. If I had to rescue only one single disc from my burning house, this one would be in the running. That Scarlet/Fire is a half-hour blissfest, Truckin' is solid, TOO is insanely good. Masterful music!

On to Wichita!

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In reply to by bolo24

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....has metal influences. Garcia tapping into his inner Iommi. My ear told me so.
Wichita this soon into the game? Bold move Cotton. Let's see how it pans out.

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Love the Dodge Ball reference!!

funny how they didn't list out what shows the songs are from. even funnier, the songs in Disc 1 are actually from 3 shows - Its All Over Now and Duprees are from 2/4/78 Milwaukee! The Wikipedia entry for DP 18 lays it out if you're interested. Deadbase IX also lists a soundcheck of Ripple x3 in Milwaukee - what the heck is that??!!

As others have noted, among many highlights a great Music Never Stopped and Eyes of the World from 2/3 - love the super long intro to Eyes, it reminds me of a post-hiatus favorite, 6/8/77. They Love Each Other is fantastic. The 2nd set from 2/5 is just wild. Such a raw sound to the Wolf! Would love to see released the Uptown shows that immediately proceed this. Worth noting how rare The Wheel was at this time - 2/3 was first time played since mid fall '77, another year until played again on 2/17/79 (Keith & Donna's last show), and then another year and a half before it finally re-entered regular rotation.

A couple technical notes - based on Dick's Caveat Emptor, 2/3 appears to have been recorded at a slower tape speed (7.5 ips vs. 15), and so the sound quality is a bit rougher. Also, IIRC, there is an unpatched gap (sad face) in the jam between verses 2 and 3 in Eyes of the World. There's a very nice audience of 2/3 on the Archive if anyone wants to hear that.

Now on to Wichita!!

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After listening to almost 4 hours of insanely wonderful music, the overriding conclusion is that, in my opinion, NO ONE can play guitar like Garcia did. At times subtle and nuanced, at other times raging, but always just exactly perfect within the context of the song they were playing. Remarkable, really. Feeling blessed to have experienced GD/JGB live so many times.

Garcia may not be the "best" guitarist (highly subjective, as most of those inane "best of" polls demonstrate), but he is the only guitarist I can listen to every day. That includes Hendrix, Page, Clapton, Gilmore and whoever else you want to throw in there.

It's grate to be a Deadhead!!

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3p838b

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In reply to by bolo24

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You're a harsh taskmaster! Listening to Grateful Dead concerts will continue until morale improves.

Bluecrow - thanks for the tip. There were a couple of compilations that came out in the 1990s that featured songs from multiple shows, but didn't indicate in the sleeve notes which song came from which show. Ladies and Gentlemen from April 1971 and Dozin' at the Knick from Spring 1990 were two others.

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Agree 100% with your comments on Jerry, what a genius! The whole band was.

Just finishing up Dave's 11 now. Comments to follow.

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Dooo, just listened to that last week, for first time, so maybe we’ll sneak another round in after this 71 grease fest we’ve got going on today .....fall 72 is def fo shizzle....

EDIt: MHAMMOND12...whoa. I’m not sure what’s more impressive, seeing the laryngitis shows or all that top shelf jazz in a club setting???

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Dicks picks vol 21 , not the main show the extras , Iko iko > morning dew > sugar magnolia . Absolutely sublime , and without doubt one of the best dew’s 😸

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I shouldn't really call the Backdoor a club. It was an empty room on the ground floor of the Student Union and Performing Arts building on campus that the A.S. booking people converted into a small concert venue. Just a stage and corked walls. No seats. No refreshments. Bring your own. The talent that appeared there was unbelievable looking back. Freddie King. John Lee Hooker. Two memories...sitting under McCoy Tyner and watching his right sock working its way down past his ankle has he stomped his foot keeping constant time...Roland Kirk playing the flute with his nose, playing three saxophones at once, playing the piano with his elbows and head, and careening around the room playing saxophone being led by his handler (Rahsaan was blind you know) who had an air raid siren he would blow off in your face if you didn't get out of the way fast enough. And none of this seemed like a gimmick. Bright moments indeed.

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In reply to by mhammond12

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This show and bonus tracks from Oklahoma City is definitely top stuff. Sound quality is A+. A great Bear recording! Man, he did great work.
The whole show flows nicely, although not a long second set. Love the Sugaree, Bird Song is awesome, Jack Straw, Box of Rain! Come on. Casey Jones to close the first set and than open with Cumberland. Great Truckin Other One, very unique Other One. Always loved Brokedown Palace and this one they play flawlessly.

I will throw out 12/28/79 Road Trips 3.1??

Let me know Gents.

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I like the post-space UJB and Bertha on that one a lot mainly for Brent's harmonies. Overall a classic pick with a lot to like. I might give DP5 (12/26/79) the edge however. That pick is hefty.

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Listened to both Dave Picks 11, 11/17/72, and Europe 72, 04/07/72, as assigned by Bolo. Dave's Picks 11 is one of my favorite releases. Great recording by Owsley improved by the treatment of Mr. Norman. Has an incredible Bird Song. Just a wonderful release.

Europe 72, 04/07/72 Wembley just blows it away. Leaves a smoking crater where Wichita used to be. Europe 72 can not be bettered.

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This one has a nice slow relaxed build up with some ripping Jerry. TOO than blows the roof off! The only TOO>Brokedown Palace. End of set 2 all great. A perfect prelude to the next to nights.

ps. 4/7 Rips the paint off the walls from the first note. No contest.

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In reply to by fourwindsblow

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Okay Bolo, what are your thoughts?
Next show for today?

I suggested 12/28/79. RT3.1

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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I’m down, right after my John Prine compilation

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I relocated last week and since that time I have been unpacking as much as I can and maintaining my workload from home. So I have been out of commission here for a while. I came across this pick of the day and I am all for it.

Just to throw a show out there ( not for today) but how about 9/8/73? I have never heard it but Dick Latvala spoke highly of it. It might be nice to give it a listen.

Meanwhile it looks RT 3.1 will it be for today. Maybe I will add 4/8/72 as well.

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Nice - been a while since that one hit my headphones.

MHammond gets a gold star. But what did you listen to AFTER lunch?

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I was at this show, it was a blast! Sugaree, High Time, The Music Never Stopped, this show was great from start to finish. This show sounds so much better then Dave's Picks 31 from just a .sound point of view. Yeah, this show was a hell of a lot of fun!

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Sugaree lovely, the rest of the set is okay Music rocks! Set 2 Alabama grooving, GSET explosive!, Terrapin super sweet jam, PITB end jam is sick!, UJB outta drums/space yes!, short Miracle, Bertha>Good Love, CJ , OMSN rockin!

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In reply to by fourwindsblow

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....on it. (I'm the tour buddy still in the car doing bong rips as y'all are heading to the gate.)

https://relisten.net/grateful-dead/1983/09/10
Santa Fe Downs. Give me this. But for Friday. I'm working tomorrow, but off Friday.
I've stood at Santa Fe Downs and looked east. The view is spectacular.
Whats all the hubbub, bub?
It's got a Music opener and a Cold Rain encore. Warts and all.
Things are strange outside. Bird Songs all day.
edit. Found something!!
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/grateful-dead-jerry-garcia-favourite-song/
Spoiler alert. Row Jimmy. Also a favorite of Bill The Drummer. It was playing as I read it (12.28.79. Disc one. Track four).
I still don't believe in coincidences.

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DaP11: Last half of disc two - the whole He’s Gone thru BDP is incredible

Just starting RT3.1 now , if the first song is any indication of this night, I’m in for something special!

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In reply to by DeadAreMyDealers

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Hendrix Freak threw this one out a couple days ago but yall were onto something else.....it got me thinking about some primal dead, and haven’t had a good 68 fix for a bit....So Wadaya say Laddys?

MHammond: RT 3.1, nice pick. Started to go through the 79 stuff when DaP 31 came out but didn’t make it, rember liking this one more than 31, and yesterday confirmed that. Really need to get to DP 5 from 12/26, it’s been so long for that one. Maybe this weekend I’ll roll that?

VGUY: I’m down with some Santa Fe tomorrow. Heard about this one for years but don’t think I’ve ever checked it out. Plus 83 would be a nice change up here....

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12/28/79! Is this the best RT release? Maybe, certainly the best 79 release from the Vault so far. Betty did another excellent job here.
I like this release more and more every time I listen to it. Sound quality is A+.Sugaree opener! Different feel to this show without Keith and Donna, but I dig it. Brent's keyboards really shine. Really good flowing Terrapin, Playing, UJB. The show closers are fun and groovy. Makes me want to get up and dance.
And then there is the bonus disc, from 12/30/79. 10 additional songs of bliss. Scarlet Fire, Let it Grow, Truckin! Sweet.

Would love to see more 79 and of course 80. The early Brent years! I know the Chicago release didn't match this release but 79 has a lot to offer.
Yesterday I also listened to 9/1/79. Not an official release, but again great 79 sound.
If you have not heard it, check it out.

Looking forward to our next pick. Let us know!

I can't take credit for that pick. I'm trying the Europe 72 night by night thing and I'm already behind.

Playing now.
Is that today’s pick?

First got this on cassette in mid-90’s and loved it right away. Then got a CD-R copy. Was really happy to get it as a commercially released CD.

This show needs a Plangentized/Normanized remaster 180g vinyl record store day release.

Edit:
Looks like I’m a day behind. No worries, I’ll catch up.

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In reply to by icecrmcnkd

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Good to have you kid.

Bolo, what are your thoughts on the last pick. Sounds like the crowd is feeling Dick's 22 for today/ tonight. I will have to sit this one out as I don't have this one. Looking forward to tomorrow's choice.
Be well folks!
Snowed here in MN today☹️