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    marye
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    Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

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  • JimInMD
    Joined:
    Ha.. Re: Net Wiring

    Aren't we all geeks in our own way? I couldn't help but read that whole post, much of it lost on me.

    But it lead me to a conclusion. Correct.. Oro, you are not an IT professional. ..but perhaps a bot. not a Russian Bot or a Facebook Bot.. our own SF peace bot.

    I mean that in the most respectful way, hope I did not offend. In a way, Oroborous.. you are all we have in our freak fight against the tyrannists and enemies. We need our own bot.

    Sorry for the diversion. Again, meant with the utmost respect and hopefully a perceived tread of good nature and humor.

    Cousins, thanks for that info.. So that's the source of that language on my tape. Does anyone know the source? The Great American Music Hall is not called the Make Believe Ballroom, right? Was this just a clever name for a bootleg LP to get it past the TM and Copyright folks? There must be another half of this story.

    I guess it doesn't matter if we don't solve this riddle, but how on earth did that LP get it's name?

    Nite all.

  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    Re: Deadvikes/net wiring

    To those not interested, please skip and except my apologies

    First, disclaimer: I am not a IT, computer, or network professional, in fact, when it comes to computers I’m way behind the curve. That being said, I am a custom AV professional which usually requires installing commercial grade networks in the home. I’ve done hundreds over the years. So I have a lot of experience using many AV products both wireless and hard wired. Why, because when you have home automation, Lighting, HVAC, Pool/spas, Security, AV, gaming, WiFi and more on one home network that’s a lot of bandwidth, no matter how many MBS/gigs your paying for. Your network is the foundation that all your net gear lives and depends on. You wouldn’t build your house on a cardboard foundation so you shouldn’t build your network on a insufficient one either!
    SONOS: you are correct that one of the main selling points for Sonos or any of the “wireless” audio products is reasonable stability over WiFi (of course always depending on service. Just like your water main the pipe is only so big)...the biggest of all reasons Sonos is ahead of the pack is their user interface. So with decent service you can certainly enjoy over WiFi, but like you mentioned if everyone is on line at the same time it’s like having every water facet and toilet going at once...,the pipe is only so big...streaming of course is the biggest drain of all.
    I won’t get all in on the phsycics, and I’d probably do a lousy job, but generally, a properly hardwired connection is going to be better: faster, less latency, more BW, and certainly more stable/reliable. I’ve seen situations where the IT guy had me disconnect a HW feed and use a meshed WAP, but that’s mostly because the WiFi gear was new, robust, and of course somewhat oversold lol. The wiring and switches were ancient crap....I may have been trying to use only four conductors which limits you to only 10/100. But that’s only happened a few times in 13 years!
    By comparison our nets are at least 1-5 gig capable, but our bigger new jobs have been 10 gig to try and future proof (as much as that’s possible anymore). Often these start getting into fiber, But I digress...
    Also, even if it’s not that time of day when the whole neighborhood is sucking on basically the same pipe, I’m sure you’ve still experienced huge speed drops, latency, and even severe buffering etc when the whole family is using all those wireless devices. So the more things you can take off WiFi and hardwire, the more those HW devices will benefit from the “bigger pipe” that the wire usually provides, but at the same time, the devices that are still over WiFi will also work better because removing streaming devices off essentially provides “more pipe” for the remaining WiFi devices.
    It’s all about the pipe baby: bigger, faster, stronger...
    The last job I was on before the VID was over 10K Square foot house. It has Comcast gig plus service, using an upgraded surfboard modem, 4 port commercial Router, 4- 48 port Poe switches, Ruckus Zone Director to air traffic control bandwidth where need via the 16 commercial grade Ruckus WAPs (all hardwired on cat five or better). All critical infrastructure gear is on Bluebolts for remote ip monitoring and rebooting.
    Besides the 16 Crestron hardwired touchscreens, there are probably a dozen iPads for control of all house subsystems. The 20+ cameras are now all nest over wifi which is a huge bandwidth drain, but that’s what the owner wanted. Throw in all the personal devices of the owners and up to 15 guests, and six in house servants and five large equipment racks of gear (even amplifiers now are ip controlled) and that’s a shit ton of bandwidth. A normal home network would not function!
    Obviously I assume most folks don’t have those needs, but the infrastructure methodology is the same.

    So for a “typical” house (there is no such thing but for simplicity)
    - Best pipe (service) you can get. Preferably on fiber or Coax if possible.
    - Buy your own upgraded modem. For a couple hundred bucks that you’ll make up by not renting one.
    - Research and get best Router you can
    - Use strategic placement of WAPs over full cat 5 or better. Six is the norm, but we sometimes pull cat 7, 8, and/or fiber.
    This depends on how many floors, walls, building materials etc, square footage. Like much of this too much is better than not enough. Think brick shithouse from BITD...
    Usually the cat for your phones all homerun back to your headend or main distribution point. Depending on where that is and if there’s adequate power nearby, you can place all your gear there, or if possible, place a robust net switch there. Obviously for switch size you’ll need to figure out how many devices you’ll want to H.W. depending on how May wires you have. It’s usualky much easier to have at least enough Poe ports to power WAPs (make sure you’ll have enough wattage). You can find all kinds of wall trim to terminate similar to how your phone or net are trimmed on your walls, or if long enough wire just terminate RJ 45 etc. You’ll need to terminate all the ends at the net switch. A decent cable tester is a real help to ensure proper terminations. Inevitably you’ll need to test from end to end using all wires and splices/connections.
    So you have your service feed to your modem, a net cabl from modem to router, router to your switch or switches, and your WAPs hardwired to your switch (s). If done properly using good gear (find gear with specks way above what you think you need, it can be money well spent, remember, your trying to build a brick shithouse, not a cheap tent! ), you can make your network more robust, stable and therefore enjoyable! It’s like buying a car with a big engine, you don’t akways need it but when you do and you put the hammer down, you’ll be glad you have that headroom.
    Obviously many folks dont need so much, but even a additional switch with hardwired devices out of your provider modem can help when supply is getting stretched thin.
    No matter how big or small or what your needs are, always hardwire when possible! That’s what I’ve found works best, cause it’s all about the pipe!
    Hope this is understandable and helps. Sorry if I didn’t explain well.

  • Cousins Of The…
    Joined:
    8/13/75

    Jim, my first exposure to it was the Make Believe Ballroom LP on the TAKRL label

  • Gollum
    Joined:
    8/13/75

    in the queue...

  • JimInMD
    Joined:
    Hampton 87 & 8/13/75

    Made that run too.. I think there are several of us here that must have shared a fatty or a bowl at some point over the last 35 years.

    So are we doing One From the Vault next? My first tape of this was labeled "Make Believe Ballroom." Not sure where that came from or how common it was.

    So I decided if we are doing 3/24/90 I would re-order it and do it right.. which is where I still am. I did roast a good amount of kind Ethiopian Coffee and unfortunately spent a ton of time on the phone with USPS. Back to finally getting my Knick exactly perfect. Whoever mentioned the Mind Left Body.. my two favorites are 10/18/73 and 3/24/90. On the latter, Jerry and Brent are in the middle of a serious mind meld. It's amazing and Brent really does fill in the gaps, almost exactly perfectly. Always one of my favorite late era shows. Amazing.

  • bolo24
    Joined:
    8/13/75. "Good evening, we welcome you...

    ...On behalf of the group"

    Pretty much have this whole show memorized, as it's always in heavy rotation. What the heck, in the interest of supporting my Deadhead brethren, of all genders, races, political leanings and creeds, I'll cue it up tomorrow and play it LOUD on the big boy system!!

    Unless my wife is home, then it's headphones.

  • DeadVikes
    Joined:
    3/24/90

    Great choice, I was able to listen to I believe everything except Desolation Row. Still have my Dozin copy from 1996 and the first Spring 1990 opening tunes. Top shelf!

    I will throw out another 90s release for tomorrow, 8/13/75, One From the Vault.
    I have two copies of this, the original 1991 release and the remastered release from 2007. The upgrade is awesome.

  • Vguy72
    Joined:
    Did someone say hockey?....

    ....my radar pinged.

  • icecrmcnkd
    Joined:
    Rip em once, play em plenty

    Excellent advice Jimbo.

    I listen to new CD arrivals to confirm that they are not defective, then make a disc image on a HD. I then type in the track names and make any necessary edits (removing those stupid overlap transitions between CD’s), and export the files as Sd2f. The Sd2f file is then used to make copies in various formats: AIFF, ALAC, FLAC, AAC-320 (each format on a separate HD).
    The ALAC files go onto micro SDXC cards for my iBasso music players (DX80 and DX120), and into iTunes for my iPod 5 Classic which a few months ago I upgraded to 1 TB using an iFlash Quad.
    The AAC-120 and FLAC files are for playing from USB drives in cars.
    With the AIFF files I burn 2 copies to CD-R as backups (glad I started doing that now that the CD rot issue has been brought to our attention), and listen to one of the copies to confirm that the files on the HD are not corrupt.

    I then make multiple HD backups

    Where do I find the time?
    I don’t play video games, I don’t go to movies, and I watch very little TV (no Netflix or other subscriptions). I do watch a lot of hockey but I can see and hear the TV from where my computers are, so I try to have the computers running and converting audio files/burning discs while watching hockey.

    I do get to listen to a lot of GOGD.

  • The Good Ole G…
    Joined:
    RE: Sleep In The Stars

    Ah-ha! Now that makes sense.

    Thanks JACK BALLER!
    I now know with the help of your response and a quick google search that Rip Van Winkle is one of the Great Northern Catskills best-loved figureheads.
    That makes so much sense, and the regional touch is really cool.

    This came out in 1996 and I've always questioned the marketing angle as the first thing I thought of was why would they release this if they thought it was a snooze fest?

    But lo!! It's quite a bit more clever than I.. and it's pretty keen.
    (I didn't recognize ole Rip in the bushes and thought that was just some stoned hippie laying there;)

    That clears up a lot and makes me like this release that much more.

    DAVE ROCK: Dosin' at the Knick ain't bad either as I'm sure there was a lot of that too...

    Well, you just can't beat that.
    Good music and I learned a few things.

    The Good Ole Grateful Dead strikes again!

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Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.
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In reply to by DeadVikes

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Please give the date of the show, not just the release identifier.
My shows are organized by date.
Thanks.

Edit:
Just figured out what DP22 is. I listened to those shows a few weeks ago and so will pass.

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Snowed here in WI, too. Yet, I finished the lawn raking. Go figure. Are you sure it wasn't Graupel (snow pellets)?

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....got the Galaxy S20+ at the beginning of March. My old phone was circa 2014. Was time for an upgrade. Came with an early order credit of $150. Used that towards Buds+'s. Testing them now during 2.23/24.68 Tahoe. Not bad.
Then I heard about all the 5G shit. Can't win for losing i guess.

RT 3.1. Fun to revisit this one - been a long long time. Totally forgot that it had that awesome Terrapin > Playing. BITD I had a cassette from a friend who labeled it "Terrapin > Playing > Jam > Yikes!!" At one point it seems like Brent was channeling his inner Ned Lagin (fully approve!)

Looking forward to visiting Santa Fe later today. Never given that legendary show a deep listen. Anybody got rec as to what source? Notice that there's an Usborne matrix.

Pick of the day reminds me of a college literature class - 4 days in and it feels like already a week behind. Tahoe is gonna have to wait.

Wichita - real bounce in their step whole show. I think '72 is my favorite "era" for Other One. Some really great Keith piano in there. Always sweet when they drop from one of these into some slow heartfelt beauty like Brokedown. When are we gonna get 9-28-72?

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If I told you all that went down it would burn off both of your ears.

Viola Lee Blues 19:15 pure bliss
Hurts Me Too 4:13
Dark Star 6:49 nice transition>
China Cat Sunflower 4:38 best ever?
The Eleven 10:33 fantastic
Turn On Your Lovelight 12:40 nice little boogie
Born Cross-Eyed 2:32 yes
Spanish Jam 7:23 wow
Morning Dew 8:10 nice
Good Morning Little Schoolgirl 14:39 sweet blues jam
That's It For The Other One 8:13 okay
New Potato Caboose 9:08 Heavenly
Alligator 3:45 okay
China Cat Sunflower 4:14
The Eleven 7:17
Alligator 6:39 oh yeah, an 11 jam
Caution (Do Not Stop On Tracks) 11:49 see that train a comin', wow excellent!!
Feedback 4:55

Feb 1968 Jerry played a - Gold-top Les Paul with P-90 single coil p/u's. 3 Twin Reverbs, 2 Fender 4x12 cabinets, JBL D120 speakers

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Stoked, unfortunately have to make a death run first; ACE for varnish, and PO. Don’t ya know almost finished with more book shelves for Lovey and I’m out of Varnish, Doooaahh! At least it’s pre-order curb side. PO I’m afraid I might have to go in and stand in line for a package (clothes for her, to go to a wedding, that we already dropped non refundable mucho dineros, that were probably not going to be able to attend).....
But I’ll be firing that up this afternoon once I have the goods....going to try the Siemens matrix. Never been as enamored with SB recordings as most. I feel there is nothing like a good matrix, more natural sounding....

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....actually does sound better boros. Thanks!✌
https://archive.org/details/gd1983-09-10.139379.mtx.seamons.ht112.flac16
Opens with Music Never Stopped. Bobby botches half the lyrics, but, as usual, the boyz make up for it with a smoking end jam.
TLEO follows. Jerry and Brent in SYNC!! Thats my wedding song btw. 20 years strong!
I really, really dig these two shows.

....to end the first. Storm clouds were rolling in and rumor has it, this show had one of the longest set breaks of all time. Waiting for the weather. Pics show that they didn't have a covering over the stage, just the rigging (see my avatar). The China Rider segue is bopping!! Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile.

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Music, holy crap, energy of a set 2 opener; TLEO, nice pace mellow and jammy; Esau, it's nice; Big RR and BIODTL fast songs didn't work here(maybe a Bird Song or Row J.); Tenn Jed back on track; Minglewood, smoking; China>Rider rockin' nice transition, wish I was a headlight...

Woman R, nice energy; Cumberland, foot stomping, Phil bombs; Playin, really nice jam; China Doll, beautiful; Jam Drums, Space really great; TOO, trembled and exploded; GDTRFB, OMSN, rockin'; CR&S the only time they encored with CR&S.

...."If its any comfort to anyone, on this date in 1890 in Cairo Illinois, it rained fish."
https://www.loc.gov/everyday-mysteries/item/can-it-rain-frogs-fish-and-…
Lolololol.
For the record, the fact that there is a second set Cumberland with bombs never swayed my opinion of this show. 😜

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Had some family issues to deal with the last couple days, so I'm behind a bit. Halfway through RT 3.1, hope to get through the rest of that one and Santa Fe by tomorrow morning. Kinda fun listening to shows that haven't been in the rotation for a few years. SO much good stuff - we are blessed indeed!

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17 years 5 months

In reply to by bolo24

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....in all good time Bolo. Hope all is well. Meanwhile, Phil is laying some serious brickwork towards the project that is PITB.

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....the only ballad in the second set was China Doll. Albeit played at 1.5× speed, the outro jam is delicious. More Lost Sailor teases from Bobby during space with a dash of Heaven Help The Fool.
At the 9:10 mark they finally decide on The Other One. 9:10 mark. I still don't believe in coincidences. Cool Space.

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In reply to by Vguy72

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....to be honest, I can't remember the last time I actually listened to one. Shame on me.

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In reply to by Vguy72

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....and it gives me chills. Wonderful!!!
Phil steps up to Bobbys mic at 4:36.
Thanks for playing. See yall later.
9.11 up next, because why not?

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....features a raucous Greatest Story and an early Hell In A Bucket that was just spreading its wings. Good stuff.
Still enjoying the ride. Kinda bumpy lately, but enjoying nonetheless.
West LA up. One of the most covered songs by them, because West LA.
Saw a picture of LA today. No smog. Actually a beautiful looking city.

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One of the high points of my life. Turbo Tom drove down from Kiowa, Montana , picked me up where I was living north of Taos and we made our way to the Santa Fe Downs. We camped next to the parking area where the Hog Farm was helping out. The Sikhs were security (Akal Security) for the Downs. Both days were amazing. And it was harvest season. The two shows were far from sold out. Many of the old guard long hairs from northern New Mexico were in attendance. Just thinking about those two concerts is like a memory from the Golden Eternity.
I’m most of the way through the first set. Earbuds , iPhone and cell tower signal up in the mountains to access this.
Great call V-guy 72!

....they played three shows there. These two, plus a one off in '82. On off as in no tour. 13 song first set if I recall correctly. Just decided to pop into Santa Fe. Plangent it and box it and ship it.
I'll pay $99.99 US dollars.
Alaska would work too. I'll pony up three moose pelts.

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When I moved down from Montana in January 1982 I lived ten miles north of Taos on north Hondo Mesa in the “kiva” in the Grow-hole. (Built by the alternative school the Taos Learning Center TLC in the early 70s) Lived in a tipi and then the “Pyramid Cube” on El Salto Mountain for the next five years. Spring of 1987 I moved to Grant County and worked trails in the Gila. Also have worked many years up in Gallup. (Trail work and Public Radio)
Another side bar on the Santa Fe Dead shows. The state penitentiary is just a couple miles from the Santa Fe Downs. Bobby Petersen (Unbroken Chain, Pride of Cucamonga) arranged with the authorities at the prison to transmit a low wattage FM signal live broadcast direct from the Downs. Bobby used to live on Lama Mountain up in Taos County not to mention Robert Hunter spent time living on Canyon Road in Santa Fe in the 60s and visited Taos at different times. And contrary to rumors , the Dead did not play at New Buffalo Commune in the 60s. I asked one of the founders last summer , Rick Klein who helped start Buffalo in 67 that very question. Not the Dead but the Eagles played at New Buffalo. Also Laird Grant (Jerry’s longest time friend) used to live at Morning Star above Arroyo Hondo.
The skies are the most consistently clear of pollution day after day for the past three weeks than for the better part of the past 40 plus years. And I’m talking the mountain west.

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....northern NM does have energy. The Taos hum proves that. Gallup was always a pit stop for me.
9.11.83 has a Morning Dew.
Where have all the people gone today??

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In reply to by Vguy72

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Good work Vguy.

Looking forward to the next pick.

This has been a fun week, good idea Bolo.

Be well people.

Did you catch the Shakedown Stream?
Pretty cool. Dave, can't sit still. He mentioned 50-70 or so high quality video in the Vault from 89-95. Intriguing to me, not sure if they will put any more of it out, but I would love to see it. Man, how about putting out the Spring 90 Tour on video? I would volunteer to help out on that project.

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Should not have passed this one by.

ps Feb '68 this is what I think heaven must be like.

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In reply to by fourwindsblow

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Been working in the garage last few days and the energy from both DP 22 and 9/10/83 has made things fly by!
Gave Santa Fe another listen last night because I was diggin it and wanted to give it a better listen than the first time. Great 83 show, fun, spirited show with interesting sets. Might just give the next night a spin today while I work.
Guessing perhaps partially why that China-rider is in overdrive might be due to the deluge that was obviously happening as Bob says something like “we’ll be back when it stops raining”. I might contribute the pace solely to “other” things except it’s not like all the songs were that fast and it wasn’t right after break? So to go from normal 83 tempo to warp drive just then, and since they didn’t have full canopy etc, makes me think they were trying hard to get the fug outta there lol.

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I like 9/10 a little better both are great. There are two grate audience recordings of these shows in hi-rez maybe a matrix box.

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China Cat Sunflower / I Know You Rider had me dancing in the dark last night. Gonna listen to the second set today. You know, land of manana , New Mexico stylie. Damn this is a long set break!

May I make a suggestion inspired by Bolo's idea? I think a "Pick Of The Week" is more workable. I think one person should make the selection and at the same time designate the next picker. So on Monday let's say JiminMd makes a pick and names the next picker who will announce his pick the following Monday and the next picker etc etc. Hey I know I'm in social isolation at least through May and I think Bolo's idea is great but it needs some structure. I also know I've been drinking and I have no idea if anything I've said makes any sense. Also I just finished 4/11/72 and I think it's probably the weakest show of the tour.

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In reply to by mhammond12

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That appeals to me a bit more. I am still following my own unplanned trail through shows, so the pick of the day was on top of what I was already listening to. The result was I got left behind straight away and decided to drop out. A weekly pick would obviously give us more time, and wouldn't intrude on where we feel we are supposed to go.

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Another vote for Mhammonds idea. Gives us all a chance to give these the attention they deserve. Goddamn work has been interfering with my listening sessions :-)

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Maybe finish 2nd set today. 9/11/83 was amazing also.
Happy Easter! Be safe everyone.

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9 years 2 months

In reply to by Strider 808808

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I listened to 12-28-79 a day late and haven’t done the others so far.
Looks like I have 9-10,11-83 on a HD but they haven’t migrated to my music player yet. Might do that later today, but first yard work calls.

For my easy-listening, coffee-drinking routine to get today going I went with 10-10-80 Acoustic.
But that just finished.

So onward with 1-24,25,26-69 % which is compiled from the AOXOMOXOA-50th bonus disc, AOXOMOXOA-Golden Road Box filler, and a portion of Live Dead. Such things are possible with my collection because I organize by show date, not by the arbitrary order that shows are released.

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In reply to by bolo24

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I think we only had 3-4 picks last week. Now that we are through the Holiday, maybe we could get back at it. Seems like every other day is doable for most. Either way we need a new pick from someone. I already had one last week. Would like us to stick to official releases. Just my thoughts.

Be well people.

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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12-2-73, part of DP14

The remainder of DP14, 11-30-73%, can also be done as extra credit.

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Not like I’m a regular here, but did jump in at (under)ground level. 50 year anniversary , 30 Trips around the Sun. Winterland. What’s not to love. “ let me hear you say; WAAAAA!!”

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In reply to by icecrmcnkd

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Just started :)

I've always preferred this part of the pick to the 11/30 portion (which isn't to say the first part is any slouch!) I think a part of it is that "Morning Dew" always seems to work better as a closer than an opener, at least for me. The second disc of this portion (or disc 4 of the set,) is just exactly perfect!

Happy Listening!

EDIT: Oh yeah, this is the show where Phil hassles the guy in the audience - "Who are you? The heat? Someone shine a light on this guy..." Kind of a jerk..

Peace

I had to take a break for some work related conference calls just as Weather Report was moving into Let it Grow, but I picked back up and am now into "Nobody's Fault" jam territory. This was a great release of a great show! As I mentioned, I prefer this one to 11/30, but I think I will have to def. go back and hit some of those highlights (maybe all of disc 2,) after this.

That being said, it is really hard to beat this second set, that though very short, contains some FAR OUT there stuff... Wharf Rat, Playin, He's Gone, Truckin, Stella, Dew - all heavyweights in my all-time favorite GD tunes list.

Good choice, IceCream!

Peace

(EDIT: Whoops, I forgot 1/2 Step - another gem!)

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Matrix of 12/1/73 - the show Dick forgot.

https://archive.org/details/gd1973-12-01.124132.mtx.dusborne.flac16/gd7…

It's got a "Sugaree", a "China>Rider", and a "Playin'>UJB>Playin'" - and so far, this Matrix sounds pretty darn good. I've never listened to this show, so it's a treat :)

I suppose this is for those students that not only want extra-credit, but are looking to write a master's thesis, or simply polish them apples into a 110%.

Peace

EDIT: After LLR, Phil says to the crowd "Be quiet over there, can't you see our piano players trying to tune up?" Seriously, what crawled up his %%# during this run?