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    marye
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    Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

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  • bluecrow
    Joined:
    Spring is here

    wishing everyone a relaxing Sunday. a good day to play some electric Jerry on the Eel. congratulations Bolo on the grandbaby(!!) and to everyone getting their double dose of vaccine on (yay!!) been spending a lot of outdoor time. early-growing-season yard /garden is very happy, nicest in years. garlic is going strong and going to have a few apricots (most frosted) and one little tree of peaches(!!), and maybe some almonds(!!!) more often than not these all get taken by a late frost here. first real camping trip for a long while this past week with my sweetheart out by the Henry Mtns, last surveyed mtn range in the lower 48, with some insanely cool laccolith action along the south flank of Mt. Hillers. so good for the heart and soul to be out there enjoying the long view.
    was really enjoying DaP 36 in the truck. Like the old days spinning '87 while on the road.
    yes - 7/18/72 - great great show.
    can't wait for DaP38 (and whatever box the Gods may bring).
    Onward : )

  • daverock
    Joined:
    Lemmy

    Rockthing-Proudfoot - a bit away from pick of the day, but mention Lemmy, and I see Hawkwind 1972 - 1975. If you haven't checked it out already, the official film clip of him singing Silver Machine with Hawkwind in 1972 is the business. They were amazing live in those days.

  • proudfoot
    Joined:
    Randomz

    4 18 71 sweet
    4 24 71 good
    6 19 80 good

  • rockthing
    Joined:
    Givin' Bobby some luv. First…

    Givin' Bobby some luv. First time checkin' out Wolf Brothers.

    PROUDFOOT: It's some seriously heavy poetry. Lemmy was a lyricist for a lot of other singers, too. R.A.M.O.N.E.S., for instance, was written for the actual Ramones to record... and I think they might have actually done so. He wrote lyrics for Ozzy, and others, too, but 1916. I think he won a Grammy for that, didn't he?

  • proudfoot
    Joined:
    Rockthing

    I usually skip that track because I get so verklempt.

    Lemmy excels at high energy swaggering strutting rock n roll

    and he can then do 1916, whorehouse blues, God was never on your side....

  • rockthing
    Joined:
    4/20/84, aka Dave's 35,…

    4/20/84, aka Dave's 35, right? That's in my Amazon cart, but "so soon after payday"... The Holbrook source comes with a little commentary from the Crew. As they indicate, Feel Like a Stranger does not yet seem to have come into its own, but there's nothing particularly wrong with it. Good Cumberland, but that Rooster, which the tapers also mention as being sort of "the beginning of the show", struck me as possibly the best Little Red Rooster I've ever heard the Dead do.

    Speaking of splitting hairs, as OROBORUS was alluding to, it's really hard to quantitatively say any rendition of a standard blues number is better than another, but I think the dynamics of this performance are what make it stand out for me. (The opinions of this author in no way reflect the opinions of anyone else anywhere). They bring it up, and then take it back down, creating a dramatic experience. Jerry gets really raunchy with his slide solo, and the crowd responds, lifting the band just that touch further before they drop back down into the verse, which leaves space for the audience show their appreciation, thus giving the band further confidence. The feedback loop of live performance. Many times this tune just seems to plod along, but not on this night.

    Let it grow also has a kind of wild vibe on this night. Again, maybe this was the norm for the day. I need to unpack the '84 shows from earlier this week.

    The Scarlet-Fire. First of all, I love how the Holbrook source leaves this couplet as one track. Scarlet Begonias also benefits from a dynamic performance that takes it to a raucous place at which it normally never even hints. Perhaps Jerry's breathing difficulties actually contribute to the rousing performance as he begins to scream to get to higher notes that used to be easy for him. The band is pulled along by this energy, and Jerry's guitar work also gets a kick. Love this, despite the mixed feeling about it being a result of Jerry struggling with health issues. Fire has lots of meandering jamming, which, to me, always makes it better. This is amazing, while having a completely different character than the great Scarlet-Fire jams of the late 70s. They really came out of the box strong for the second set.

    Hearing Jerry kind of struggling with his vocals in the mid-80s had always kind of left me with a sad feeling, which is probably why my listening experience is weak in this era, but this show may have enlightened me as to that actually being the attraction of this period. Jer has to really dig deep, and the extra effort that once was not required infects the band and the audience with its energy. Dunno, just a thought inspired by listening to this show.

    Samson and Delilah absolutely had me out of my seat, lord I had to dance!

    I made it up to Drums before other duties required my ears.

    OROBORUS: 4/24/71. That's one tape I've had for as long as I can remember having tapes. I tend to go to 4/18 more often, so this'll be nice to revisit.

    JIMINMD: 4/22/79 is the last two track Betty Board? Don't really know her history well enough, other than she made a ton a great recordings. Are her masters multi-track from then on, or did she stop touring with the band after that?

    Actually, I was wrong about having Brent's first show. I'd read about it somewhere, Deadology, or Dead Listening blog, or something. The closest thing I had was 5/5. That has now been remedied. Fantastic audience source available. Feels a touch mid-scooped, but the Miller transfer of Mark Severson's tapes seemed, to my ears, to have the smoothest frequency response. I have not listened to more than a few A/Bs of Mama Tried, however. Looks like a good time, but we've already moved on.

    PROUDFOOT: Yeah, I completely lost track of Shock G and that whole scene, but the Humpty Dance was a phenomenon, wasn't it? There's a really interesting interview with Shock G thread-posted to Twitter. No mention of oatmeal. :P

    As much as I like the April '71 tapes I've got, I've never managed to "collect'em all". This is one of my gaps.

    Also, Motorhead 1916. The song 1916 is so heavy without actually being "heavy" as in heavy metal. Chokes me up every damn time. Jerry and the boys coulda destroyed that song at the end of the second set. 20 thousand Dead Heads weeping in unison. Also a lotta good old rock'n'roll, cranked to 11, on that album. Picked that up back in the day when I stopped at a random "cassette shop" that I'd passed every day on the way to work for a while. Needed some new tunes for the commute. Couldn't say why the car wasn't full a Dead tapes, but there have been a few periods where I set'em aside for a while... or maybe just didn't wanna leave'em in the car.

  • proudfoot
    Joined:
    My first potd

    6 25 85

    85 box would be welcome, ptb.

  • rockthing
    Joined:
    In lieu of an actual copy of…

    In lieu of an actual copy of Dave's Picks 35 (sorry Official Dead dot Net ^^;) I had a poke around the Archive. A further poke around revealed I could actually get a copy from Amazon by the middle of next week for less than 80 bucks. I'd just assumed all those things were sold out on pre-order.

    So, before realizing I could get the official release (but too late to contribute to any discussion about it) I did some taste testing on The Archive. Using BIODTL as a quick starting mid-first set number, hoping the house sound would be pretty much dialed in by then, I listened to The Executive Crew's FOB Beyer XY cassette master, then listened to the Miller transfer of the Silberman digital source. Yep. A digital field recording from 1984. Pretty avant garde. I listened back to the Beyer. Listened to the Silberman Sennheiser 441's again, then the Beyer cassette master, and so on for a while. The Silberman digital source probably has a touch more clarity, and even more so than a lot of Sennheiser recordings seem to me, even the Senn source attributed to Jim Wise, but suspiciously having the exact same set up as the Silberman source. At the end of the day, there's something that seemed warm and soothing, but at the same time, a little rough and tumble, about the cassette master. Perhaps it strikes a balance between what I often perceive as a kind of muffled sound from the Senns and the hyper clarity of the Silberman/Miller project. I've noticed my ear's preference for Beyer recordings, but it's never guaranteed. The binaural recording from this same team is intriguing and will likely be revisited, but for now, I'll be downloading the Beyer XY cassette pull. Confirmed as a Luddite, I am.

  • rockthing
    Joined:
    JIMINMD, is your buddy's…

    JIMINMD, is your buddy's tape circulating?

    So it's Daves's Picks 35? Ah, I see. 4/20. Sounds good to me.

    I've really been loadin' up on April '84 shows lately. '82~'85 had been a real weak spot in my listening until a year or so ago. Been really into all the '82 shows I've checked out so far. The '85 New Year's show, with Ken Kesey absolutely freaking the fxxx out, was one of my first dozen tapes, though.

    I think I've got a copy of Brent's first show hangin' about on a hard disk. Disco Dead, I'm all over... well, not really, but I've spent more time with that period, at least. Gonna start with that '84, show, though, 'cause I'm sure I've never heard it.

  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    PF: opinions are what makes this place interesting!

    So op away mi amigo!
    I felt the same about this one as I did the last; really dug the first set, both H2H were awesome, the banter is priceless, but the second sets....? seemed slightly...? a tad, ruff, ragged, forced, distorted...? Sorry, can’t spit it out, but not as bad as this might make it seem. I’m nit picking comparing to for instance the 17 & 18th. But hey that’s just me...
    Have enjoyed em all so far. Really looking to the big final stretch next week!

    Had a nice visit with Dave’s 35 too. Need to hit 37 again before 38.
    But onward to 4/24/71 today since I have time but won’t tomorrow.

    Awful quiet around here.....(sound of crickets......)......
    Seems like it might be time for SOMETHING? Come on Dave!!
    Now is the Time!

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Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.
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In reply to by fourwindsblow

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Morning.. 2nd cup of coffee (the first strains of IKYR from Feb 26 ’73 play in the background.)

FWB - Just digging in to 1973-02-26 - I can’t remember the last time I listened to this release, I’m thinking it was def underplayed due to it’s incompleteness… I made a playlist to include missing tracks from official release. So far 2/26 is sounding like stellar February ’73 Dead fo sure!

DaveRock - Thanks Man! And I might say the same for you & yours;) Roky rocks!
(it’s actually an Animated Gif, but it’s not animating here..)

Vguy72 - Cpt Crunchy Dead!
You nailed it, I almost changed my Avatar to the Captain based on this comment and it made me LOL, it mighta been the music, mighta been the weed, but that describes 1967-10-22… Crunch-A-Tize Me Cap’N!

Be Well, Play Dead!

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2/9 or 2/15 would be a great first release of the year for a Dave's Picks!! Have fun with 2/26 and 2/28!!! bob t

BOB T - I agree about Feb 73!

Like I was saying earlier I hadn’t listened to 2/9 in forever, as it was one of the first SBDs I grabbed when I got back into collecting in say 2009-2010 ish and it was one of the first 5 SBD tapes I ever had back when I was 15.

So I dusted off that way neglected gem a week or so ago as the virus surged and sat in my backyard and took the trip… that show is so amazing on so many levels.

I’d love to see both 2/9/73 & 2/15/73 officially released! (nudge nudge Lemieux)

After that I wanted to hear more Feb 73 and therefore picked DiP V28 for this here get together. About to head into some Dark Star and see where this day goes.

LAF848 - 10/22/67 is GREAT JAMS for Sure, I enjoyed that pick big time. Thanks for that suggestion peeps!

Have fun indeed.

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First psychedelic band out of Texas. Not to mention Sir Douglas Quintet. Maybe Sir Doug Sahm was the first.
Watched GD movie last night from “a cave up in he hills”. Those were the days.
Healing thoughts for Bolo and family. Healing thoughts for any Deadheads, GD family who are dealing with some bad cards with this crisis.

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But all this Feb 73 talk and right into 2/15/73 Dark Star!! Phil is jamming right now and I can't wait for the the Jerry playing!! so beautiful

He came to England round about 2007. I can't remember a time when I felt so excited waiting to see a performer walk out on stage as I did waiting for Roky. Probably seeing the Dead in 1981 and 1990. But it was quite something, having read all I could about him since the 70s to see him stride out and wave to the crowd. He sounded great, too. He played virtually the whole of that album he made of songs based on horror themes-I Walked With A Zombie, The Creature With The Atom Brain etc. Sadly, the only Elevators song he sang was You're Gonna Miss Me, which was the encore. But what the hell. He came back to do show shortly before he died, but I didn't find out about that one until too late.
Right...I'll leave you in peace now !

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Thank you for the notice that this was on sale at Real Gone! This is one of 11 from the series that I am missing, and of those, a 73 release sounds just exactly perfect (now, if I can only find a decently priced #19...)

Anyway, I am going to wait to listen to this one, so today I have been rocking 4/17/83 Matrix from the Archive. Great, high energy show, sweet jamming, Phil and Brent sound particularly good. Stephen Stills guests in the 2nd set for "Love the One Your With" and sounds terrible, but otherwise it is a pretty sweet show. Here's a link for those interested:

https://archive.org/details/gd1983-04-17.138277.mtx.dusborne.flac16/gd8…

May I suggest Dave's 8 - 11/30/80 Fox Theater for tomorrow's listen? One of the best of the series, and a great show for a Sunday.

Also, I know that we are looking to stick to official releases, but that leaves SO MANY incredible shows just waiting in the LMA... many of which would be new to most. Just sayin...

Peace

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More about fox, animal good
fox news, no good

The good fox it is , the animal ? No, the Theater

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In reply to by Vguy72

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VGUY72 - You should be at just about the masterpiece zone of that there show in Lincoln.

Dark Star > Eyes > Half-Step will take you there!

I had a fun time in '73 today, glad you guys brought up these Brendan Byrne Arena (or was it called Meadownlands?) Stephen Stills shows.

I needed to upgrade to the 2017 Miller versions. They sound better than I’ve ever heard them.
Love the Early Bro Esau
Slipknot is great!!
heading into the Playing zone.

Is it me or is ’83 awesome? oh and ’84, ’85, ’87 Oh man… love the ‘80s.
Good Stuff!

Enjoy the ride..

Listened again today. Such a solid release. Sound quality of these two shows from Dick's #28 is outstanding. 73 is so good. Has there been a subpar 73 release? I don't think so. Great groove to this show. First set is stellar. Solid Big Railroad Blues, Loose Lucy. Second set is crazy good. One of my favorite Dark Starsz again really groovy.
Great pick GOGD.

I am in for Dave's 8. Love 1980! Still believe we have a good chance for the fall 1980 box this fall.

Conekid. Cracked into my first Bell's Oberons of 2020. So good. Always taste the best when the season starts.

Be well folks.

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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OTIS - 1980-11-30 sounds fun, I'll plan on it.
You're gonna be happy when you get DiP V28 that was fun to hear again.

1983-04-17 is a killer. I always loved the sloppy LTOYW and used to try and make people listen to my crappy cassette version when I was a teenager. Nobody got it..

I can kinda see why now, Stills is just screaming out of key, I'd like to see Jerry's face during that. Still love it though and the PITB is a favorite.

In regards to 1973-02-26 - Approximately 3 Hours 7 minutes of music currently circulates from what I can tell. The Official Release and 6 Songs that are Missing from the Release but circulate as SBD, 2 songs Missing and not in circulation. When you listen side by side the sound quality of the official release really stands out and it sounds great! SBD is good just not in the same league.

Highlights: Loser (Sweet Susie Verse!), Don’t Ease, BRRB, Tennessee Jed, GSET
Epic: PITB*, Dark Star > Eyes > Half-Step
Missing from Release: Box of Rain, China > Rider, BIODTL, Row Jimmy, El Paso (All Good not Great)
Missing from Circulation: Deal, Mexicali Blues (Anybody got them?)

Dark Star > Eyes > Half-Step suite is the stand-out and they build a solid structure on both sides of it while coming and going. Dark Star builds for like 17 minutes before First (and only) Verse, it’s pretty magical and I’ll be listening to that again much more often now.

What a Year, What a Show, What a Band!

1973-02-28 - Is great too! But.. I’ll save that feedback for another time.

Good Ole Grateful Dead

Be Well, Keep on Rockin' and Remember your Hippie Training Folks!

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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Nice Deadvikes.
I’ve been going through a lot of Oberon while in quarantine. A beer store I frequent sells cases of 16 oz cans for only about $2 more than a case of 12 oz cans. That works out to an additional 96 oz for only $2 more! Got to be frugal in tough economic times.

Have to mow the lawn and do other yard work today. Will try for today’s pick later today when the jobs are done and I’m having some Oberon. I skipped yesterday’s picks because I listened to them on their anniversaries.

I processed a bunch of torrent files yesterday. They are currently in Sd2f format, will convert to AIFF and ALAC today and put the ALAC files on my music player. Included in the batch is 9-10-83, so I will finally get a listen to that show. Last week I went to process that show but the Miller files I had on a HD were corrupt, so I went and got the Seamons mtx torrent. Also processed other shows from 82, 83, 84. Yeah, I like those years.

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Very enjoyable . Had been quite a while since I last heard it. And I have it on my iPod . Strong Bird Song and a chunky 15 minute Playing in the Band.

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In reply to by Strider 808808

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Just finishing, on UJB.
Wish more early 80’s recordings sounded this good.

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It Must Have Been The Roses is a particularly strong version from my recollection. The harmonies are still tight from the Sept./Oct. acoustic and electric shows.

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In reply to by wilfredtjones

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11/30/80 - I agree with WILFREDTJONES nice IMHBTR and ICECRMCNKD on the Sound Qual.
Nice Bird Song, always like L>S>D before Set 2. Scarlet > Fire, Ship was nice, PITB, Wheel & UJB encore all good.

I was inspired to search out some more from '80, dusted off
8/21/80 - Set 2 is off the rails Drums > UJB > Truckin' > Other One > Drums > Wheel > UJB > Sug Mag. Alabama Getaway Encore.
Give that a spin sometime...

I might have to follow CNKD on a 4/17/69 & 4/18/70 revisit. I was eyeballing them the other day while making my pick.

What's the haps on Tomorrow? Anybody got a pick?

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In reply to by Strider 808808

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What a show! I never get tired of listening to this one. Great first set, Bird Song! Lost Sailor/SOC is really good. Don't anybody fall into the pit. Scarlet Fire. Playing, the Wheel. UJB encore!
We need more 1980 shows for sure. A lot to offer.

WilfredTJones, send us a pick for tomorrow.

Conekid. Cases of Oberon in 16 oz cans, sounds sweet. What do they charge in MI for those?
We only get 12 packs in 12 oz cans in MN and they are typically $18.99.

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I will nominate Dick's 20 Disc 2 (9-25-76 set II) and/or Dave's 7 disc 3 (4-24-78 set II Terrapin through Around). Btw, I love that 4-18-70 Cumberland Blues...

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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....works for me!
That Big River from the Fox is out-fuckin-standing btw!!

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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When I was living in Atlanta I was getting Oberon 12-packs/12-oz cans for $15.99.
Looks like that’s the current price at Meijer in MI.
I’m in Pittsburgh now and the drive thru beer store by my house is selling them for $15.84. That’s a good deal but they didn’t get that much at the start of the season and the last time I was there I think I bought all they had. They probably have gotten more since then, so time to go back. They told me that it doesn’t sell that well, so maybe I’m the only person buying it.
The beer store that I drive past coming home from work (which I’m not currently doing) has the 16-oz cans in 4-packs. I grab a case and it comes to under $38 after tax.

16-oz cans are probably the best deal, but not currently the most convenient for me to get.

Just finished Set 1.. It's cool to hear how much more they've got their swagger back compared to say June 1976.

They sound confident and are rockin'

Good Stuff!

Time for Set 2.

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... God, I love a good "Bertha" opener! Maybe my #1 favorite way to open a show... Maybe just a hold-over from my years of listening to and loving Skull Fuck.

Dressed myself in green! (Happy 4/20! - Earth Day too!)

Peace

A double shot of Jerry ballads, back to back. That doesn't happen too often...

Peace

EDIT: Ah, I see that "It's All Over Now" came between them but was edited out for this release. Still, a nice combo, even if it is artificial.

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In reply to by Thats_Otis

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I’m on Loser now.
The band really does sound a lot different than in June.

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In reply to by icecrmcnkd

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....down the hatch. Highlights? Bertha for sure. Peggy-O and Let It Grow.

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In reply to by Vguy72

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...from what I remember, this "Supplication" is pretty great. Yep... confirmed. It is hot!

Other than the first set highlights mentioned by VGuy, I also really enjoyed the "Ramble On" and the "Sugaree" closer. Seems like "Let it Grow" will round out the set, and they play it like it will, but then they drop that rocking "Sugaree"...

I also believe that this is the last "Cosmic Charlie" the band ever played. On Half-Step now...

Peace

Sounds a lot like a ‘77 version.

Maybe to get the full feel of the 76 to 77 transition we should also listen to 12-31-76 then 2-26-77.
Not necessarily today.

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Well, everything is now copacetic for the most part in my little world. The nasty covid nemesis is hopefully in the rear-view mirror. My family members are mostly recovered, my buddy tested negative and his wife's health has vastly improved. Feeling blessed today!

Haven't kept up with the selections here - last listen was DP22. Love me some 1968! We had a vacation home in King's Beach for 30+ years, so I'm quite familiar with that bowling alley. I think Hendrix even played there.

Anyway, I haven't gone back to see who is doing the picks here, so I'll just throw out the first Jerry Garcia Band live album for consideration - the one from the Warfield released in 1991. The whole band just sparkles and Garcia's genius on his instrument is undeniable.

Also, I'm probably going to do a little contest soon for some cool (and valuable!) GD schwag in celebration of the return of good health around here, so stay tuned!

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In reply to by icecrmcnkd

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I'm hip to what you all have been saying and you're all on the money here.

Had to attend to other things, but was def noticing that they were rippin' through Dancin' with a lot more authority & confidence, than the 5 versions I recently listened to from June of '76.

Then yes indeed the last Cosmic Charlie.. bye Charlie! Was real nice to know you... you were always Truckin' in style along the avenue... and that Scarlet was tight, again a signpost to places we can go.

Ahh.. gotta groove to St. Stephen for awhile now.

CNKD I'm down... Love 12/31/76.. that PITB is always welcome. Planning on hitting up 9/28/76 today as well, so we'll see where the day goes.

BOLO24 - Glad to hear all is well in your world! Fun thread you got here.. thank you!
Got all the GD.. but don't have much JGB... but I love Schwag!

Speeding Arrow.. Sharp and Narrow.. this sounds good. Yes it does!

They're having fun with this here showh.. You all have fun too!

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In reply to by bolo24

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Just a clarification - do you mean the 91 mass-released double album with the painting on the cover, or one of the archival releases?

Also, glad to hear things are looking up!

Peace

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The whole damn thing!

I really liked the Phil-led little jam between Drums and the call back of St. Stephen - then, a joyous Sugar Mags to top it off! But really, this whole set, like many 76 sets, is just one seamless good time :)

Great set, great show, great pick!

My buddy just texted and gave high praise to 4/20/84. I think I may head that direction next.

I hope everyone has a wonderful rest of a Monday! Stay safe, and PLAY DEAD!

Peace

But it’s going to be brief because it’s sunny and blue sky and might hit 60. Going to ride my bike, then have some Oberon in the sun and do some grilling.

If you didn’t see my post on the 76 Box page, Willie Nelson is hosting a 4/20 celebration on YouTube at 4:20 central time.

Yo yo Bolo.

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In reply to by bolo24

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Great news Bolo! I am sure you and the family are relieved.

We have been moving along well with a great group of contributors. Today, still working on the first show from Dick's 20.

I am open for tomorrow.

Be well!

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Glad to hear that everyone is on the mend. Prayers answered. Stay cool and distant (6 ft. anyway). Looking forward to your contest.

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Thanks for the kind words, prayers and good thoughts. Y'all are good people, just like most Deadheads I've encountered in my life.

Contest: tomorrow at noon pacific time right here. And I guarantee the schwag will be well worth your effort. The clue is ridiculously easy, just like they always are!