• 8,084 replies
    marye
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    Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

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  • JimInMD
    Joined:
    More on GD/Amps/US Navy

    I was close... if you google it you will get an answer pretty quick. Here is a quick quote from my first google land.

    Rosie McGee was cracking up at her desk when Dennis "Wiz" Leonard walked in from lunch.

    "What's the story?" Wiz asked McGee, then a receptionist and bookkeeper at Alembic, a California-based custom electric guitar, bass, and pre-amp company where Wiz worked as an audio engineer.

    "Well, the Department of Defense just called me," she told him. "They were asking if we could defer the purchase of our next four 3500s, so they could get four."

    Those amps were in high demand at Alembic. The 3500s, in particular, would be used in the Wall of Sound's vocal array tweeters, drum tweeters, and for Jerry Garcia's guitars. But was it just Alembic buying them up? A rumor was going around—a "urban myth," Wiz told me—that the US military was using Mac 3500s for sonar, specifically to listen for Soviet submarines.

  • Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Passing the Test

    Isn't the goal here to be lighthearted? I try my best to not let the craziness of the world/media not get to me here? Isn't the goal here to be a kind prankster? They ask, "Are you kind?" Most of the flamers I look like as children, either actual age or not. Many are so deep in social media and issues that result thereof, they cannot see what it is doing to them. They are being handled, manipulated, and unwittingly abused by the profiteers. I try to stay away.

    Jim, had no idea of the McIntosh amp issues. Thanks for that piece of info. As much as I love the music, it is just how they were. So real and fun which someone wrote, "creating their own iconography." The richness of their traditions and internal musical dialog that we love is an unending source of comfort as they lived it everyday for 30 years. I wish I had a shot at hearing even 50% of their music, but as I have written before, my OCD makes me wear out a great jam over and over instead of looking for the next one. Need to work on that for sure.

    So Jim and Oro and many others, thanks for passing the test.

    G

  • JimInMD
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    GFar

    You are kind soul.. I appreciate all you provide here. Same goes to Oro. I think it would take a face to face to catch me up on all the technology (old or new) that the two of you bring for me to truly understand. As for old.. and I am sure you both know.. in either late 73 or early 74 (I think 73).. the GD got into a scuffle with DOD over equipment they were ordering that was desperately needed for national security. Apparently, the Macintosh amps they were buying in unprecedented numbers were needed both in general and more specifically by special, top secret subs that needed the clean sound and amplification to either detect enemy interference or better hear and make stealth the noise they were making. So they called the GD and tried to work out a way to either stall, postpone or barter a purchasing arrangement that would not jeopardize national security.

    I think this is well known, and I apologize in advance for going on memory and surely confusing some of the information listed above as fact. ..but what is written is pretty close, if someone can clarify and correct it would not offend me in the least.

    Hope I didn't write anything that was incorrect or in any way interpreted as insulting or offensive.

    As for chainsaws and sawzaws to clear way for our living room WOS.. what could possibly be more fun.

  • Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Sawzaw

    Ah the sounds of my earliest fun dentist. "You dont need no gas!"

    All my stereo stuff is old, always fussy. Running all old Yamaha into JBL (plus svs). Trying to get stuff cleaned and parts replaced. When it is on, it is quite the stereo indeed. I have an old yamaha eq that I hooked up when Dave's first show was released. Goes into Pre amp, then to a yamaha mx-830. The MX-830 is powering 4 jbl g300's and 2 jbl LX 600's. Running 6 speakers means the amp is running at 550 watts at 2 ohms. It cooks. The speakers all have same tweeters and mid ranges. The 300s run 8" woofers and the 600s have 10 inch woofers. It is old but as you say "in budget." Smile.

    edit:
    Then the svs has a 550 watt continous, 850 watt peak sledge. The svs I picked up a few years back for $399. I had to have a sub with an internal crossover. So out of preamp to svs (rca cables), then back into the preamp, then to amp. Having old yamaha means older connection points. Modern amps control the crossover themself and pump sub out already crossed over. I happen to run my internal sub amp at a cutoff of 82 hz. George Lucas uses 80 hz crossover in his THX sound systems. So I am slightly above that. I did some sampling of the room using the preamp features.

    G

  • JimInMD
    Joined:
    Do you have any '74 Dijon?

    Neanderthal's use chain saws.. a sophisticated audiophile attacks their living rooms delicately with a sawzaw.

    I'm totally jealous.. I am blasting with my 20 year old Denon, similar age speakers with no intents on upgrading anytime soon. Budgets be budgets..

  • Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Yeah

    Can you imagine writing the real equipment book? With the constant upgrading of the system, that book would be multiple enormous volumes. Hope the Meyers have logged a lot of their research.

    No 18's here. Of course not needed.

    Back last year, Oro, you asked if I was running multiple subs. I am not. I have a 12" SVS Systems sub with built in Sledge D amp. It is like the rabbit, it is a thumper. Goes down to 13 or 15hz, so below the 20hz of human hearing. That is, if all memories about frequency response are still good. Starting to get the old enough to question my own thoughts at times.

    I am still hoping for the day when we can listen to WoS through a system that takes us to the "Fare the Well" P.A.. Would have to be software based, but I look at it like 4K upcoding an HDTV signal.

    Wow, FTW PA is now 7 years ago. Bet the Meyers' have gone way beyond that. I almost applied for a job at Meyer 7 years ago. Was in my career field. POTHead.

    That 2015 system had multiple flying 18's. It also had a load balancing system. This was done by having 2 systems, intake and outake. That is, they had 100 microphones throughout the stadium to push into the analytics software. Of course, the output systems was not connected except thru analytics, to the input system to avoid feedback. Brilliant. The analytic input system could then be used to balance the PA by section of the of the stadium.

    Sorry for interruption but I wanted find the article on pro sound web about 2015 FTW PA.

    I did actually find it, but not by searching pro sound web, but by searching internet at large and it found it on the pro sound web site, even though pro sound web could not find it in its own search.

    Let me know, maybe I can send lynk thru PM here, not sure if they cut that off.

    Any way need to do a little work after lunch. I mean a little work.

    G

  • Oroborous
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    Ha

    That’s what chain saws are for!

    Gary, I think besides trying to keep up with Garcia, Phil was using that big system on stage to help fill in those near field areas (up front etc) we were discussing, the areas that didn’t get proper coverage from the PA?
    What some refer to as the Phil Zone, though to me that’s was where both his stage sound and the PA sound merged and acoustically coupled.
    But yeah, My spine tingles and can still feel rather than hear those sub frequencies in my DNA. (By sub I mean below the threshold of hearing, not a subwoofer). Those Meyers 18”s in the PA were ridiculous in the right spot, in the right venue etc.
    Plus, it’s the Grateful Fucking Dead so why not go big!

    PS, that Grateful Dead gear book is great, though a little dialed down.

  • JimInMD
    Joined:
    I want what Phil's having...

    Home version. 18"'s and 4"'s. If I move some things around, they should fit.

  • Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Oro

    thanks for the write-up, input. Need a little time to read again and ponder. Think again we are speaking the same language but as 90% of communication is non verbal, some times the written language let's us down.

    It seems I have the dead's equipment book, need to track that down. Not necessarily for this discussion but just to find it again...

    Should have figured Phil would use Meyer systems. Using 18's onstage, wow!

    Hope all well your way!

    G

  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    Phil’s Rig

    As of late 82 or early 83 Phil was using 4 Meyers cabinets: (4 -18”, 4 -15”), 2 per cabinet powered by custom PIE amps, until they started not using speakers on stage in 92. (Which I didn’t like).

    Not sure I get all what your saying? I agree that Soundboards do not sound natural for many reasons.
    Perhaps your referring to the phenomena of Microphones not having frequency response to accurately record bass waves combing sub sonic frequencies at those kind of SPL levels?
    Mic location can also make a big difference and was partly why Dan started the tapers section. Unless you have the right knowledge and equipment chances are a recording made too close will mot sound good.
    Plus you have the physics: the lower the frequency, the longer the sound wave. If your too close you’ll not hear the fully formed bass note etc.
    In fact if your too close much of the PA sound will blow right by you. You’ll also not properly experience stereo imaging. That’s why usually, the sound board or just before it was THE place to be. It was a trade off going up front: yeah you were up close and could see and hear their stage sound, but the PA mix was so above and beyond you that you missed a lot of info. Eventually they added little Meyers boxes, usually sitting on the front of the stage to add some vocals etc for those up close.
    Nothing comes for free! Personally, like Bear, I didn’t like the stereo set up because of this. Unless you were in the right spot, you missed a lot of info, especially if you were sitting on the side!
    This was the main reason Reserved seating sucked: nobody could sit where they wanted so if you were a sound nut like us, you often had to endure less than perfect sound/mixes.

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Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.
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In process and it has been a while. Sound quality from my perspective is somewhat lacking. Love the Dupree's, It's all over now, good Passenger, Brown Eyed Women. Just finished Eyes, really good. Again, wish the sound quality was better.

Thanks Bolo and Mary!

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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Disc one is fun (it's a mix of several shows, me remembers...CR&S is always welcome)
Disc two is sublime. Eyes, Playin' > Wheel > Playin'. I do notice some sound quality issues at times, but they are not horrific and permanent. I remember the Playin' is good as always, and then gets reeeeeeally good
Disc three is phenomenal. As I listened recently, I remember smiling at the glory of the show. Scarlet > Fire, Truckin' > The Other One > Wharf > Around

the Madison show took place about 50 miles north of where l lived at the time. but since I was in 8th grade, I had no clue or awareness of that fact.

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One of my favorites Scarlet>Fire's of all time.... Also love the Samson when after a prolong opening jam Weir does the woohoo type of shout out!! I've posted about the Scarlet>Fire before but there is a Jerry Keith chord interaction after the singing in Scarlet that for me is mind melting!!! Good first choice Bolo... One last ramble, for me this show 2/5/78 is in my mind is the last show of 77... The April tour after this has a different vibe..

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In reply to by bob t

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....listened to the first disc last night. Cold Rain, All Over Now, Duprees and BE Woman all top shelf renditions. Man. Iowa got all the good shows. Will start up disc two a little later.
Thats the show with the extended Samson due to Bob's mic difficulties, correct?

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A few momentous stand outs for me: The Music Never Stopped; this version easily made it onto a "best of" compilation early on and has never been supplanted. Fight me. Also, the Estimated > Eyes of so so good. Beautiful elongated Eyes intro, then just mad jamming all the way through, nice upbeat Eyes tempo. Great exploratory Estimated as well. I love the drop into Eyes here; expertly pulled off. The Scarlet > Fire is very awesome too. Long, jammy. Nothing new here, just adding my love.

Nice idea.
Sixtus

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The first thing I noticed is that it features two nights, but unless I am looking in the wrong place, there is no indication which nights which songs are from. I could have checked in Deadbase...but that's upstairs and as I was settled down to listen I didn't bother. It looks like one first and two second sets.

I have just played the first cd so far. Coming from Europe 72, this sounds a lot simpler rhythmically. During Spring 72, you can focus on Bill, Phil, Bob, or Keith - as well as Jerry obviously-and they are all playing with energy and imagination. Here, the focus is more just on Jerry. I like his fiery guitar sound on here, but I am not as keen on Bob's sound. Donna, on the other hand, sounds nice on Looks Like Rain. I prefer this version of Good Lovin to the ones played in 72. It sounds almost calypso-a real celebratory sound.
The cd picks up pace nicely on the last three songs, with great guitar solos from Jerry. It seems a bit more like standard "rock" in a way, compared to the swing they had with one drummer and a fully functioning Keith. I enjoyed listening to it, but I will probably leave the first of the set 2s for tomorrow.

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Not much left to say LLR crackled like a thundercloud!

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In reply to by fourwindsblow

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....Jerry fresh off his laryngitis. The crackling in his voice during Wharf Rat proves it. His voice was never the same, but still rocks my soul.
Trey Pistachio dropped another song. "Are You There Colleen?". With a message of getting off drugs. Methinks Colleen was his dealer back in the day. Might be wrong. Never right.
I had a dealer back in the day. Name was Chill. Called him from payphones. That was a long time ago though. Thank God.

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At the start of 1978 I'd sort of lost interest in the Dead, having last seen them in 74. 78 was my fifth year in college (yeah I know) and I was way more into jazz than rock in large part due to an awesome jazz club on campus, the Backdoor. The place just had a constant stream of major talent coming through. McCoy Tyner, Charlie Mingus, Elvin Jones, Roland Kirk etc. So in early January I see the Dead are gonna be at Golden Hall so my girlfriend and I say "What the hell?" and I get tickets for 1/07. Now in 78 the Dead were not that big of a draw and I wasn't expecting much, sort of a nostalgia trip. Wrong. They were great, just awesome. So after the show we immediately get tickets for 1/08. These were the Bobby songs only nights but that didn't matter a bit. My girlfriend (now my wife) cried during Looks Like Rain. We were back on the bus until 85 when the arrival of our first kid changed everything. Footnote to that is our last show was a week before his birth and she was major prego and treated like royalty by all you wonderful heads. So I love DP 18 and I especially like the Eugene show release. Stay home.

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Nice! I'm overdue for a listen.

RE: DP18, agree with Jim - Brown-Eyed Women is PERFECT! For that matter, so is TMNS - powerful! And then there's disc 3. If I had to rescue only one single disc from my burning house, this one would be in the running. That Scarlet/Fire is a half-hour blissfest, Truckin' is solid, TOO is insanely good. Masterful music!

On to Wichita!

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In reply to by bolo24

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....has metal influences. Garcia tapping into his inner Iommi. My ear told me so.
Wichita this soon into the game? Bold move Cotton. Let's see how it pans out.

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Love the Dodge Ball reference!!

funny how they didn't list out what shows the songs are from. even funnier, the songs in Disc 1 are actually from 3 shows - Its All Over Now and Duprees are from 2/4/78 Milwaukee! The Wikipedia entry for DP 18 lays it out if you're interested. Deadbase IX also lists a soundcheck of Ripple x3 in Milwaukee - what the heck is that??!!

As others have noted, among many highlights a great Music Never Stopped and Eyes of the World from 2/3 - love the super long intro to Eyes, it reminds me of a post-hiatus favorite, 6/8/77. They Love Each Other is fantastic. The 2nd set from 2/5 is just wild. Such a raw sound to the Wolf! Would love to see released the Uptown shows that immediately proceed this. Worth noting how rare The Wheel was at this time - 2/3 was first time played since mid fall '77, another year until played again on 2/17/79 (Keith & Donna's last show), and then another year and a half before it finally re-entered regular rotation.

A couple technical notes - based on Dick's Caveat Emptor, 2/3 appears to have been recorded at a slower tape speed (7.5 ips vs. 15), and so the sound quality is a bit rougher. Also, IIRC, there is an unpatched gap (sad face) in the jam between verses 2 and 3 in Eyes of the World. There's a very nice audience of 2/3 on the Archive if anyone wants to hear that.

Now on to Wichita!!

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After listening to almost 4 hours of insanely wonderful music, the overriding conclusion is that, in my opinion, NO ONE can play guitar like Garcia did. At times subtle and nuanced, at other times raging, but always just exactly perfect within the context of the song they were playing. Remarkable, really. Feeling blessed to have experienced GD/JGB live so many times.

Garcia may not be the "best" guitarist (highly subjective, as most of those inane "best of" polls demonstrate), but he is the only guitarist I can listen to every day. That includes Hendrix, Page, Clapton, Gilmore and whoever else you want to throw in there.

It's grate to be a Deadhead!!

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3p838b

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In reply to by bolo24

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You're a harsh taskmaster! Listening to Grateful Dead concerts will continue until morale improves.

Bluecrow - thanks for the tip. There were a couple of compilations that came out in the 1990s that featured songs from multiple shows, but didn't indicate in the sleeve notes which song came from which show. Ladies and Gentlemen from April 1971 and Dozin' at the Knick from Spring 1990 were two others.

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In reply to by daverock

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Agree 100% with your comments on Jerry, what a genius! The whole band was.

Just finishing up Dave's 11 now. Comments to follow.

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In reply to by Sixtus_

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Dooo, just listened to that last week, for first time, so maybe we’ll sneak another round in after this 71 grease fest we’ve got going on today .....fall 72 is def fo shizzle....

EDIt: MHAMMOND12...whoa. I’m not sure what’s more impressive, seeing the laryngitis shows or all that top shelf jazz in a club setting???

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Dicks picks vol 21 , not the main show the extras , Iko iko > morning dew > sugar magnolia . Absolutely sublime , and without doubt one of the best dew’s 😸

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I shouldn't really call the Backdoor a club. It was an empty room on the ground floor of the Student Union and Performing Arts building on campus that the A.S. booking people converted into a small concert venue. Just a stage and corked walls. No seats. No refreshments. Bring your own. The talent that appeared there was unbelievable looking back. Freddie King. John Lee Hooker. Two memories...sitting under McCoy Tyner and watching his right sock working its way down past his ankle has he stomped his foot keeping constant time...Roland Kirk playing the flute with his nose, playing three saxophones at once, playing the piano with his elbows and head, and careening around the room playing saxophone being led by his handler (Rahsaan was blind you know) who had an air raid siren he would blow off in your face if you didn't get out of the way fast enough. And none of this seemed like a gimmick. Bright moments indeed.

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In reply to by mhammond12

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This show and bonus tracks from Oklahoma City is definitely top stuff. Sound quality is A+. A great Bear recording! Man, he did great work.
The whole show flows nicely, although not a long second set. Love the Sugaree, Bird Song is awesome, Jack Straw, Box of Rain! Come on. Casey Jones to close the first set and than open with Cumberland. Great Truckin Other One, very unique Other One. Always loved Brokedown Palace and this one they play flawlessly.

I will throw out 12/28/79 Road Trips 3.1??

Let me know Gents.

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I like the post-space UJB and Bertha on that one a lot mainly for Brent's harmonies. Overall a classic pick with a lot to like. I might give DP5 (12/26/79) the edge however. That pick is hefty.

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In reply to by Vguy72

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Listened to both Dave Picks 11, 11/17/72, and Europe 72, 04/07/72, as assigned by Bolo. Dave's Picks 11 is one of my favorite releases. Great recording by Owsley improved by the treatment of Mr. Norman. Has an incredible Bird Song. Just a wonderful release.

Europe 72, 04/07/72 Wembley just blows it away. Leaves a smoking crater where Wichita used to be. Europe 72 can not be bettered.

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This one has a nice slow relaxed build up with some ripping Jerry. TOO than blows the roof off! The only TOO>Brokedown Palace. End of set 2 all great. A perfect prelude to the next to nights.

ps. 4/7 Rips the paint off the walls from the first note. No contest.

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In reply to by fourwindsblow

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Okay Bolo, what are your thoughts?
Next show for today?

I suggested 12/28/79. RT3.1

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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I’m down, right after my John Prine compilation

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I relocated last week and since that time I have been unpacking as much as I can and maintaining my workload from home. So I have been out of commission here for a while. I came across this pick of the day and I am all for it.

Just to throw a show out there ( not for today) but how about 9/8/73? I have never heard it but Dick Latvala spoke highly of it. It might be nice to give it a listen.

Meanwhile it looks RT 3.1 will it be for today. Maybe I will add 4/8/72 as well.

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Nice - been a while since that one hit my headphones.

MHammond gets a gold star. But what did you listen to AFTER lunch?

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I was at this show, it was a blast! Sugaree, High Time, The Music Never Stopped, this show was great from start to finish. This show sounds so much better then Dave's Picks 31 from just a .sound point of view. Yeah, this show was a hell of a lot of fun!

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Sugaree lovely, the rest of the set is okay Music rocks! Set 2 Alabama grooving, GSET explosive!, Terrapin super sweet jam, PITB end jam is sick!, UJB outta drums/space yes!, short Miracle, Bertha>Good Love, CJ , OMSN rockin!

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In reply to by fourwindsblow

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....on it. (I'm the tour buddy still in the car doing bong rips as y'all are heading to the gate.)

https://relisten.net/grateful-dead/1983/09/10
Santa Fe Downs. Give me this. But for Friday. I'm working tomorrow, but off Friday.
I've stood at Santa Fe Downs and looked east. The view is spectacular.
Whats all the hubbub, bub?
It's got a Music opener and a Cold Rain encore. Warts and all.
Things are strange outside. Bird Songs all day.
edit. Found something!!
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/grateful-dead-jerry-garcia-favourite-song/
Spoiler alert. Row Jimmy. Also a favorite of Bill The Drummer. It was playing as I read it (12.28.79. Disc one. Track four).
I still don't believe in coincidences.

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DaP11: Last half of disc two - the whole He’s Gone thru BDP is incredible

Just starting RT3.1 now , if the first song is any indication of this night, I’m in for something special!

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In reply to by DeadAreMyDealers

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Hendrix Freak threw this one out a couple days ago but yall were onto something else.....it got me thinking about some primal dead, and haven’t had a good 68 fix for a bit....So Wadaya say Laddys?

MHammond: RT 3.1, nice pick. Started to go through the 79 stuff when DaP 31 came out but didn’t make it, rember liking this one more than 31, and yesterday confirmed that. Really need to get to DP 5 from 12/26, it’s been so long for that one. Maybe this weekend I’ll roll that?

VGUY: I’m down with some Santa Fe tomorrow. Heard about this one for years but don’t think I’ve ever checked it out. Plus 83 would be a nice change up here....

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In reply to by DeadAreMyDealers

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12/28/79! Is this the best RT release? Maybe, certainly the best 79 release from the Vault so far. Betty did another excellent job here.
I like this release more and more every time I listen to it. Sound quality is A+.Sugaree opener! Different feel to this show without Keith and Donna, but I dig it. Brent's keyboards really shine. Really good flowing Terrapin, Playing, UJB. The show closers are fun and groovy. Makes me want to get up and dance.
And then there is the bonus disc, from 12/30/79. 10 additional songs of bliss. Scarlet Fire, Let it Grow, Truckin! Sweet.

Would love to see more 79 and of course 80. The early Brent years! I know the Chicago release didn't match this release but 79 has a lot to offer.
Yesterday I also listened to 9/1/79. Not an official release, but again great 79 sound.
If you have not heard it, check it out.

Looking forward to our next pick. Let us know!

I can't take credit for that pick. I'm trying the Europe 72 night by night thing and I'm already behind.

Playing now.
Is that today’s pick?

First got this on cassette in mid-90’s and loved it right away. Then got a CD-R copy. Was really happy to get it as a commercially released CD.

This show needs a Plangentized/Normanized remaster 180g vinyl record store day release.

Edit:
Looks like I’m a day behind. No worries, I’ll catch up.

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In reply to by icecrmcnkd

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Good to have you kid.

Bolo, what are your thoughts on the last pick. Sounds like the crowd is feeling Dick's 22 for today/ tonight. I will have to sit this one out as I don't have this one. Looking forward to tomorrow's choice.
Be well folks!
Snowed here in MN today☹️