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    marye
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    Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

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  • #2351
    Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Yeah

    Can you imagine writing the real equipment book? With the constant upgrading of the system, that book would be multiple enormous volumes. Hope the Meyers have logged a lot of their research.

    No 18's here. Of course not needed.

    Back last year, Oro, you asked if I was running multiple subs. I am not. I have a 12" SVS Systems sub with built in Sledge D amp. It is like the rabbit, it is a thumper. Goes down to 13 or 15hz, so below the 20hz of human hearing. That is, if all memories about frequency response are still good. Starting to get the old enough to question my own thoughts at times.

    I am still hoping for the day when we can listen to WoS through a system that takes us to the "Fare the Well" P.A.. Would have to be software based, but I look at it like 4K upcoding an HDTV signal.

    Wow, FTW PA is now 7 years ago. Bet the Meyers' have gone way beyond that. I almost applied for a job at Meyer 7 years ago. Was in my career field. POTHead.

    That 2015 system had multiple flying 18's. It also had a load balancing system. This was done by having 2 systems, intake and outake. That is, they had 100 microphones throughout the stadium to push into the analytics software. Of course, the output systems was not connected except thru analytics, to the input system to avoid feedback. Brilliant. The analytic input system could then be used to balance the PA by section of the of the stadium.

    Sorry for interruption but I wanted find the article on pro sound web about 2015 FTW PA.

    I did actually find it, but not by searching pro sound web, but by searching internet at large and it found it on the pro sound web site, even though pro sound web could not find it in its own search.

    Let me know, maybe I can send lynk thru PM here, not sure if they cut that off.

    Any way need to do a little work after lunch. I mean a little work.

    G

  • #2352
    Oroborous
    Joined:
    Ha

    That’s what chain saws are for!

    Gary, I think besides trying to keep up with Garcia, Phil was using that big system on stage to help fill in those near field areas (up front etc) we were discussing, the areas that didn’t get proper coverage from the PA?
    What some refer to as the Phil Zone, though to me that’s was where both his stage sound and the PA sound merged and acoustically coupled.
    But yeah, My spine tingles and can still feel rather than hear those sub frequencies in my DNA. (By sub I mean below the threshold of hearing, not a subwoofer). Those Meyers 18”s in the PA were ridiculous in the right spot, in the right venue etc.
    Plus, it’s the Grateful Fucking Dead so why not go big!

    PS, that Grateful Dead gear book is great, though a little dialed down.

  • #2353
    JimInMD
    Joined:
    I want what Phil's having...

    Home version. 18"'s and 4"'s. If I move some things around, they should fit.

  • #2354
    Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Oro

    thanks for the write-up, input. Need a little time to read again and ponder. Think again we are speaking the same language but as 90% of communication is non verbal, some times the written language let's us down.

    It seems I have the dead's equipment book, need to track that down. Not necessarily for this discussion but just to find it again...

    Should have figured Phil would use Meyer systems. Using 18's onstage, wow!

    Hope all well your way!

    G

  • #2355
    Oroborous
    Joined:
    Phil’s Rig

    As of late 82 or early 83 Phil was using 4 Meyers cabinets: (4 -18”, 4 -15”), 2 per cabinet powered by custom PIE amps, until they started not using speakers on stage in 92. (Which I didn’t like).

    Not sure I get all what your saying? I agree that Soundboards do not sound natural for many reasons.
    Perhaps your referring to the phenomena of Microphones not having frequency response to accurately record bass waves combing sub sonic frequencies at those kind of SPL levels?
    Mic location can also make a big difference and was partly why Dan started the tapers section. Unless you have the right knowledge and equipment chances are a recording made too close will mot sound good.
    Plus you have the physics: the lower the frequency, the longer the sound wave. If your too close you’ll not hear the fully formed bass note etc.
    In fact if your too close much of the PA sound will blow right by you. You’ll also not properly experience stereo imaging. That’s why usually, the sound board or just before it was THE place to be. It was a trade off going up front: yeah you were up close and could see and hear their stage sound, but the PA mix was so above and beyond you that you missed a lot of info. Eventually they added little Meyers boxes, usually sitting on the front of the stage to add some vocals etc for those up close.
    Nothing comes for free! Personally, like Bear, I didn’t like the stereo set up because of this. Unless you were in the right spot, you missed a lot of info, especially if you were sitting on the side!
    This was the main reason Reserved seating sucked: nobody could sit where they wanted so if you were a sound nut like us, you often had to endure less than perfect sound/mixes.

  • #2356
    Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Fall Out from the Phil Zone

    I listened to 1988-10-15. Once Friday, Second Saturday. Two different sources although both said the Ultramatrix board, the first was much muddier than the second. Best highlight was the deep garbled voices toward the end of drums. Really bizarre, and reminds me of garbled voices during latter Star Wars during broken transmissions, and reminds me of the fellas ties to Lucas, the lightgiver.

    I was very disappointed in both versions as the show is missing a whole lot of data/music. What I mean by this is, I am wondering if there is fallout from the phil zone? I am positing that as the Phil Zone expanded, Healy lost control of the overall sound. If memory serves at some point it seems I remember maybe Phil using 18" woofers onstage. For sure he was using 15's (plus 12's and 10's). Now I loved my bit of time I spent in the Phil zone, but generally when I got up close, it was Jerry side. As Phil blasts his horn, this means Healy had to bring Phil down in the overall P.A. mix. In my humble opinion, I believe this led to the bad tape sound, lots of data/music missing. When I focus my ears, I can tell that much of the overall lower sound waves are missing or nonexistent. Even worse, the frequencies that are there are very muddled and indiscernible.

    Now as a way to test my theory, I listened to 1988-03-27, Hampton. Another group of shows I saw in 1988. I did see 8 Dead shows there and fully know the quality of the sound that can be obtained within the mothership. (Also saw the shows that make up "Hampton Comes Alive..") When I listened to March 27, the sound is very good. However, although not as bad a St.Pete, there is again a large amount of data/music missing as well. The imaging is excellent but that is because the imaging comes from the higher frequencies. Bass frequencies are much more omni- directional, whereas high frequencies are unidirectional. (Want to press on these concepts furthur, later on. I want to go back to some discussions back in October regarding HDCD.) If my hypothesis is correct, then the tape anomalies concerning extremely muddled low frequencies will test out thru other 1988 shows. Had not heard or noticed this until this past weekend. So for St. Pete, it not only causes Phil to be muddled (deep booming bass with no clarity to individual notes played), it also means some muddleness from other players/instruments. I believe this may be the reason why 1988 recordings may all need matrix recording.

    Just one man's opinion, would like to know what others thought.

    Both Hampton and St. Pete were excellent shows when you factor other aspects than just the quality of the reproduced sound on tape. One reason I love the later shows is because the P.A. quality produces a much more full bodied, across frequencies, sound than do earlier performances. Early performances are fire from perfomance, latter shows have more depth and clarity in the frequency spectrum, hence DaP#40.

    Ok enough for now.

    G

  • #2357
    bob t
    Joined:
    Sandstone Amphitheatre 7/4/90

    I was there.. It was so hot at the start of the show... Close to 100... Really enjoyed the long scarlet>fire popping up in the 4th slot.... Drove straight to Louisville after the show... why oh why.

  • #2358
    Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Congrats Jim!!!

    Knew we were getting close. Still love the Raven show. I am a huge '82 fan.

    This was the same time as my first drop, April 1982, what a life changing event, as I know 4/19 was for you.

    First 2 drops were Orange Sunshine and Purple Haze. Not too bad for first 2. Man, there is a lot to write about with those 2.

    Thanks Jim for being such a solid rock of posting here, and again, Congrats.

    G

  • #2359
    JimInMD
    Joined:
    4/19 - Why take one when two will do?

    I can't say no to that. A pivotal moment in the life of Jim.

    The drive home (including the arduous task of finding the car) was perhaps scarier than that moment when they derailed into discord and mayhem shortly after drums. The driver, the older brother of the friend I went with, was totally straight and a taper. The two of us had never seen the dead before and we both indulged - two each. Making it through space intact was the first challenge.. then we had to live through it again on the drive home. I was given very strict instructions which I followed as if my life depended on it, "He cannot know." So we hop in the car, he takes out his newly recorded master and fast forwards to that very moment it all began.

    "Quoth the Raven Nevermore. ....It was a dark and stormy night.... Wasn't it?" and the laughing and the sounds of nitrous.

    Listening to this again for the first time in a while, that laugh at the beginning of space that sounds remarkably like the laugh repeated over and over again on a loop cycle during the excellent Space from Dave's Picks 40, Deer Creek 6/18/90. It's the same laugh whether recreated or brought back to life from this recording? Not sure.

    Looking back on this 40 years later, I have to think maybe Larry wasn't as straight as he was purported to be. How could he not have known we were holding on for dear life on that fateful drive home? Perhaps he fast forwarded to that space because he knew and approved? A test? Questions that will likely remain unanswered.

    If you haven't heard this check it out, there's a brand spanking new Miller on the archive that reeks of an upgrade. On a similar note, Lemieux has been playing stuff from this tour this year. I recall him referring to it as "a most excellent tour", perhaps foreshadowing things to come?

    To me, the sound is better than some of the 82 that's found it's way to CD.. When the sweet chords of the Wheel finally broke through the madness that came before it.. I realized things were going to be ok after all. And they were. But the half hour before that and the half hour drive home took some time to make sense out of. Thankfully the Wheel and Stella Blue were there to provide support and ground us after our travels.

    I'd like to think we both passed the test. ahh.. well, onward.

    Edit: Two additional comments.. the discord probably started with Feel Like a Stranger, also that Brokedown Palace was sweet. 81 and 82 have some really nice versions of these songs, Jerry's voice was in good shape during this period. a real highlight.

  • #2360
    daverock
    Joined:
    Tupelo

    I can't honestly say I remember the Pigpen version - despite having the cd of 4/18/70. But that John Lee Hooker record is unforgettable. Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds cut a thunderous record based on this theme, and with that title, in the mid 80's.

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Submitted by marye on
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Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

If we are going to do 11/8/69, I am going to have to carve out the requisite amount of time like we did Saturday.. no distractions, no cell phones, no texts, no questions, no one tapping me on my shoulder.. and not the dreaded words, "one more thing" .. and of course get in the proper frame of mind beforehand.

Honestly.. these two shows, add in 2/14/68, 2/13&14/70, sprinkle in FW 69 for good measure and I have taken a liking to 1/2/70 + Bonus disc and an honorable mention for what I think of when I want to get in the transportation business.

Boy does listening to these shows take a lot out of you.. perhaps that's why they wrote AB & WMD.. to slow things down just before we careened off that cliff and into mental oblivion.

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Submitted by fourwindsblow on Mon, 05/04/2020 - 14:55

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GMLSG sounds as smooth as butter,,,

re, Well... I just hit play but, I paused it. Jim, when is a good time for you I'll wait??

The planets seem perfectly aligned this Thursday. That seems enough time to plan.

That will give us some time to switch things up too.. play around the calendar, pick shows from different periods too.

Does that give us enough time to plan?

That's a pretty nifty number ya got there!

I am all for Dick's 16, but if we need to pause on it to soak up Jai-Alai, I get that too. Let's keep this thing going! I am all for GD from any era!

Today was a good day for 74 Dead around here. Shortly after my early morning Dave's 34 was delivered (at 6:30 am!) I got another package from Real Gone containing Dick's 31, which I looked into after all of the discussion around these parts.

I hope I don't over do the 74 stuff - wait, I don't think that will ever happen.

Peace

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Submitted by Vguy72 on Mon, 05/04/2020 - 16:19

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....and the sound is already impeccable. And to quote Bobby "Its the real thing".
Just like Billy Sunday in a shotgun ragtime band. This pick came at the right time.

We can pause while the WOS gently peels the plaster from our ceilings.

Whatever works.

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Submitted by DeadVikes on Mon, 05/04/2020 - 21:07

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Okay on the pause for the Picks. I will keep my own going tomorrow as my #34 is still in CA.. Okay, no whining here, that gets old.

Oh yah I might have chased a couple women around..., the waiting is the hardest part.

Week eight of this crap, be well people.

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Submitted by fourwindsblow on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 05:05

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No problem all good. Those who have received the 34 happy listening!

"New ones coming as the old ones go"

Alright, sounds like the Pick of The Day is in hold pattern as we wait for & listen to the Pick of The Dave.

#34 to be exact - 6/23/74 & 6/22/74 Bonus Disc

Roger that.

I'll proceed accordingly...

Sherman set the Wayback machine to June 1974, we're going to listen to the Wall of Sound.

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Submitted by Strider 808808 on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 06:52

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I love the overlap of old ( psychedelic ) & new ( country/workingmans ) . It’s the palindrome 69 major phase shifting. The sound of small venues compared to larger halls or outdoor concerts all have different ambience . Same goes for instruments ( Jerry’s guitars) . Gibson SG in 1969-70. A whole slew of different axes in 1971. Wall of Sound 1974, with Doug Irwin Wolf Guitar.
Suggesting different eras of GD has been educational, even heard / seen fresh, and in 2020. Who would have known fifty years ago.

RE: STRIDER 88

Interesting observation and I believe you've tapped into something.

Hypothesis:
Does inspiration then lead to a love of learning?

I would venture to guess.. Yes!

Prediction:
Being inspired by Grateful Dead music, if I listen to the Grateful Dead from many eras over and over and over, through the course of many days and years, I'll want to learn more and will be loving it!

Test Prediction:
Continue listening to lots and lots of Grateful Dead from many different eras and discuss with friends.. ad infinitum

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Submitted by fourwindsblow on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 07:36

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Perfect timing. I got an amp and speakers on the way. Had to take advantage of the 30% offer. I got the speak's for half price and ac line filter for free. I'll be putting off listening to 34 till I get set up.

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Submitted by Vguy72 on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 08:45

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Carson, CA 5.5.90. 30th anniversary.My final Brent shows.
https://archive.org/details/gd1990-05-05.141262.sbd.miller.flac2496/05S…
Rumors were rampant these shows that Timothy Leary was backstage dosing everyone. The band does sound "fat and juicy", so I can see where it could be true. Phil was turned WAY up.
I remember hanging out with some hare krishnas after the show eating free rice.

Strider...I think Jerry started playing a strat at some gigs in 1969, and on through 1970, as well as the mighty SG. This always seemed to me to be a signifier of the bands gradual shift to a more country based sound. As you indicate, they could still turn on the psychedelic power in 1969 and 1970 - but the times they were a changing .

Whew.. saved from an 11/8/69 induced nervous breakdown.

Edit: Saved for now. It's always the bats that start these things. Well, a melty PITB, then the bats. Look out for Dark Star>The Other One>Dark Star's too. A sure sign that society is in collapse.

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Submitted by simonrob on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 07:00

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Bats have got themselves a bad reputation lately. Hunter knew it long ago.

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Submitted by Strider 808808 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 09:40

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DaveRock , I can only go on photographs before 1970. I believe you’re correct, Jerry would use a strat for some late 69-70 songs. Of the ten times I saw them in 1970 I only remember the Gibson SG. 1971 was all over the map. Starting with seeing the SG my last time same night as Mickeys last show 2/18/71. The next few nights was the peanut Alembic experimental . By April Jerry was playing a Les Paul and then the peanut some nights. First time I saw Jerry play a Fender Stratocaster was at the Felt Forum 12/4/71. Then 2-3 strats through 72/ 73. The Wolf was a real game changer.
This is a fresh way of listening the good ole Grateful Dead.

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Submitted by daverock on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 11:41

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Strider...I am only going off photographs of course-I have nothing like the first hand experiences you are talking about. It must have been amazing to see them in 1970-1971-truly a mythical time. The photos I remember of him with a strat in 1969-70 are mainly in the Taping Compendium. Jerry is holding a sunburst strat in the picture accompanying the Feb 70 shows.
Its always interested me which guitars he played at shows-and Bob too, to a lesser extent. I watched the Festival Express dvd a few weeks ago, and Jerry is jamming with...a band who's name escapes me...but he is playing a tele. I don't think he played one of those very often.

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Submitted by icecrmcnkd on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 11:44

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Good call Daverock, I need to watch that this weekend

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Submitted by DeadVikes on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 14:30

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Thanks for joining in on this one Vguy and Jim. Loved the cover last night Vguy. Recording is Multi Track excellence as all these shows are. Have not listened to this show in maybe three years. Of the three Omni shows, I usually pull 4/3/1990, maybe because of that glorious Shakedown opener.
Anyway, Vguy, agree with you on this show. Great first set, with a great Althea, to Lay me Down, Music Never Stopped. Even the Victim is good. China Rider, what did that guy say last night about Ship of Fools??
Great Truckin, Stella, Sugar Magnolia and one of favorite encores, It's All Over Now Baby Blue. Great show.

Check it out if you have not listened in a while.

Be well all!

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Submitted by Vguy72 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 15:29

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....Victim -> Lay Me Down -> MNS is solid. Raucous Sugar Mags. And who doesn't like a Baby Blue? I know this guy does!

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Submitted by carlo13 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 16:06

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*

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Submitted by carlo13 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 16:09

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I'm half way through 4/1/90. Althea was playing on our boombox at a motel room at an airport at the giants show in '89 with my friends. Like anyone would care.

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Submitted by carlo13 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 16:14

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He called us fools talking about potholders and other normal things. Strange.

I didn't make it through the whole show.. but made it beyond the Victim/Lay Me Down. Let it be known I LOVE To Lay Me Down, but the Victim was so much better ( a song I don't normally adhere to).

Anyway.. just had to comment. Not coherent enough to add much more than that.

Who's fucking idea was it to watch Festival Express anyway.. a great yet terrible idea all at the same time. Thank god nobody drives cars anymore. My liver and my lungs both suddenly hurt both at once.

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Submitted by Thats_Otis on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 06:25

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Man, it was HOT down there!

Anyway, just catching up. I did dabble with disc 2 of Dick's 16 the other night... that is some mind-altering stuff. It looks like yesterday was 4/1/90 - just started "Touch" now.

Today is Three from the Vault? Sounds good to me :)

Peace

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Submitted by icecrmcnkd on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 07:34

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Sounds grate, and it’s not even Plangentized.

Smokestack Lightning! Grease it up.

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Submitted by Strider 808808 on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 08:36

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I’m there. And was there.

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Submitted by Thats_Otis on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 12:18

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I loved that Omni show! I didn't get either of the Spring 90 boxes, so this show was new to me (at least for a good, quality sit-down and listen.) I LOVED it! The band is so hot, Brent in particular was on fire, the Bobby tunes rocked, and there were so many high-quality Jerry ballads. I mean, a show that has a "Candyman" "To Lay Me Down" "Ship of Fools" "Stella Blue" AND "Baby Blue" - c'mon... all played very well too!

Just started on 2/19/71 - the first Billy-solo show. Was this chosen to celebrate Billy's b-day? Good choice! I haven't listened to this one in a while!

Peace

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Submitted by Strider 808808 on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 13:11

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I remember from 2/19/71 was, “where’s Mickey?”. Was disappointed at the beginning of the show. The level of musicianship had greatly evolved since 1967 or last time as five piece. They blew the roof off the Capitol Theater that night. Jerry played his Alembec experimental “peanut” guitar for the first time on 2/19 and continued to play it the next several nights.I went Thursday through Sunday nights. I vaguely remember Weir commenting on Sunday as it being slow. As I remember it was sold out all nights. Unlike November 1970 shows in Port Chester when I could buy tickets night of the shows at the box office. Fillmore East was harder to get Dead tickets and February 71 shows sold out in hours . I bought tickets by getting in line at 5 am on a December (1970) Saturday morning. “What’s become of the baby that cold December morn”. Blair Jackson was in that same ticket line. 70/71 was quite the phase shift. Keep em guessing.

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Submitted by daverock on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 14:14

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Strider...do you remember much about the ESP experiments at these shows?

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Submitted by DeadVikes on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 14:38

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Nice pick Conekid!.
Always thought it was odd this came out in 2007 and with no real explanation why it took so long to get it out.

Great recording with A+ sound quality. Really good Truckin, Dark Hollow, China Rider. Really liked the Greatest Story, early Bird Song. Did somebody say, Easy Wind? This was great and I wish this got more play as well as New Speedway Boogie.
Great finish!

Strider, you were there, really cool.

Good to see you here Oroborous, I thought a Spring 1990 pick might peek your interest.

Otis, as a huge Brent fan, you should consider the Spring 1990 box sets. Highly recommend.

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Submitted by Dennis on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 15:11

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I think this is the thread where Jim mention Victim -> Lay Me Down (1990-04-01). I'm a huge fan of Victim, this is a great one. I think this is the depths that, Just a Little LIght, Blow Away, Foolish Heart (if Jerry could remember words when he came out of jam :-) ) could have reached. Picasso Moon probably didn't have much too go! :-) But I really like a good Corinna.

Great Victim though, thanks for pointing it out.

Is there a better "Just a Little Light", than Dozin' at the Knick? Come on? Is there? Just took it off , best.

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Submitted by Strider 808808 on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 15:44

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Only that it was a random image , not all the time. I do remember Bob and Betty being set up on a side balcony booth. Saturday night was the major rave up night. NRPS finishing their set w Honkey Tonk Woman and the crowd going bonkers, balcony shaking. Weir, Pigpen and Pigs girl friend Veronica watched the end of the NRPS set from back stage right, Bobby shaking his head as if to say”tonight’s the night”. Highlights from 2/19 for me are Smokestack Lightning. Jerry’s use of the Alembec experimental peanut guitar looked amazing after he used his Gibson SG the night before. The peanut guitar was very small in its size but belted out a sweet big sound that was especially evident during Johnny B Goode, that had most of the audience up dancing. A few people at my high school would go one night only , but I was completely consumed.
Too bad there are not many (any)more 1970 tapes. Anything from either 1970 or 1971 is no less than spectacular .