Grateful Dead

You can't be serious. You actually mixed the crowd noise levels?

Crowd noise.

WTF!

This CD is impossible to listen to. White noise covers everything and increases at all your favorite parts.
File this one next to Simon & Garfunkel's Greatest Hits as albums that can't be tolerated because of crowd noise.
The Dead were the first to figured out how to eliminate crowd noise from their recordings years ago.

Guess Dave didn't get the memo.

If this is what we have to look forward to with next year's subscription, then the age of quality Grateful Dead recordings is dead and gone. Because of the crowd noise, Dave's Pick's 36 is total crap, which is a GD shame, because it would have been a great CD otherwise.

I thought I heard that, too. Pretty astute of you to pick that out.

BTW, I think I like this one better through the home stereo vs. headphones on first listens.

https://youtu.be/NywMLMhaQZ0

https://youtu.be/Usrk5HR1U4I

Dave did not mix in crowd noise nor did they make a matrix. Healy used an audience mic and added it to the source soundboard recording. I'm not a huge fan of audience ambiance either, but neither Dave nor Jeffrey Norman are on the hook for piping in crowd noise. This decision was made on 3/26 and 27/1987. Since it is part of the source master cassettes, there is no way to remove it now.

There are a lot of soundboards from these years with various amounts of audience mixed in.

I'm trying to figure out if the audience presence is why those tapes have been deemed by TPTB to be unusable. I wish something would leak out via 30 Days, Taper's Section, or JOTW so we can judge for ourselves.

Yes - many thanks! And of course, tonight is the Halloween anniversary. I have just listened to the great Help/Slipknot/Franklins that opened this show. This night was spoiled somewhat by my then girlfriend, who suddenly decided she didn't like, or want to see the Dead. So we left after the first set - even though t was a great set. Still, she went back in the morning, and I had another night to look forward to, with a bag of spiffy wee liberty caps to open things up a bit.

I was wondering why I was blathering away almost to myself over on the DaP subscription page! I thought we moved over there when the subs were announced . . . :-O

Because when the subscription was announced the object of this thread had not been released. Even now, punters are just starting to receive their copies and starting to post their thoughts. Where else would they do that? That doesn't mean that the subscription thread is redundant, it is just not relevant to Dave's 36.

So a bit of crowd noise makes this unlistenable? Guess some came after tape trading

A photo in the booklet from outside the Civic Center shows a BMW with CT plates that reads LATVALA. Can Dead.Net confirm this is Dick's car?

Anybody else have theirs stuck in the UPS to USPS transfer deal again? I'd love to make my own judgements about crowd noise but my copy is sitting in limbo yet again. No way to track, no information, just silence from both carriers. Really wish they would give the subscription folks option for 1 day shipping. I'd happily pay for it so I could get a real tracking number and know if I'm getting a copy or not.
As to the crowd noise.... booo! (but I still want to hear it) Happy Halloween!

Audience participation is audible
Makes me feel like I am in the auditoreeeeeeeum

Currently listening to Row Jimmy in car at park
Plenty of volume

No complaints

It does sound different than previous dayvz

Plenty of Phil

Push comes to shove

A shuffle

1987 GD

hmmmm....

GD is as GD does
GD is as GD dose

Lots of good energy

Some will gripe about audience sound

A perfectly fine show

Awesome transition Desolation into Birdsong

Birdsong gets out there

11,884 has landed...need to rip to my portable player and toss on the headphones later after dinner is done

There were not 7 characters on Ct license plates at that time.

Ripping as I type.

Been going through the comments every now and again, and seeing what everyone thinks of the shows so far. There seems to be some who don’t seem to like the Matrix recording of the show. For me, the Matrix is just exactly right. I can hear the audience well, but the music definitely comes first in the mix. I feel like I’m there, singing Cold Rain & Snow and clapping during the vocal jam in He’s Gone. On the other hand, I completely get those who don’t like it. The audience, while not overshadowing the music, is very present. I understand that someone would like a cleaner soundboard recording with minimal audience noise. However, they can be dry(depends on the show and taper). Those are my two cents.

P.S.
Glad y’all are getting these pretty quickly; loving the shows
(Edit): sorry for some of y’all who are getting these later, especially internationally.

Would Dick have CT Plates? I think not. Clearly that license plate was from his evil twin, Dan Latvala, the East Coast coke dealer for the band.

Problem solved.

WB 50th delivered on Thur, new Shakedown Stream on Friday, and DaP 36 arrived on Saturday, a weekend music dream. 2.18.71 is a classic, and the sound is crispy. Get some.

DaP 36 is pretty good, not bad, can't complain. Worth a listen, Drums > Space!!! Back on shelf.

I love this 2nd set.. Estimated >TOO>eyes>WR>frank. Late night snack.

Keeping it real at your age. You are on the right road to music utopia. Keep the dead alive in your circle of friends and you will reap the musical rewards of our leader jerry. Peace.

Pinch/pinch ect ect ... it was 30 years ago today etc ect ... my one and only show - played cold rain & snow ( one of my favs ) and in the words of my show buddy from Vancouver “ they played dark star man !!! “ the enormity of this didn’t hit home for a number of years but I must be in a very small band of people with the 1 show 1 dark star record . 😸😸😸

So is the general sentiment that the production folks super imposed the name onto the license plate? Harkens back to the days when we would hold Sgt. Pepper's cover to a mirror at 90 degrees to see if Paul is dead.

Sadly, Healy didn't always make all the best choices, like with Bobby's volume too low in the mix. Crowd noise, in this regard, sounds more like sabotage than anything resembling a wise recording decision that Owsley or Bob and Betty might have made, because you can bet that Healy did get the memo. We like the cleaner recordings because older Heads like me lived through all the noise of every format you can name. All of them multiple times over to include reel-to-reel.

The first Grateful Dead album I heard was Live/Dead in the 8th grade in '70 - '71, and it was actually on an 8-track, so I lived through all the years of sonic distortions and even bought Steal Your Face new - still have that old album too. First concert was Wall of Sound in Atlanta - and that concert (with Maria Muldaur!) was delayed for over an hour because of a hum in the sound system. First set lasted four songs and they broke again to fix another problem to get everything...remember this? Here it comes: Just exactly perfect. I'm certain someone in the band used to say that with fair regularity. Cleaner is better until you decide to get dirty on purpose. In fact, that's one of their hallmarks. Noise just doesn't work in a Grateful Dead concert, no matter the justifications of latter years.

With this CD the best you can probably do is just close your eyes and pretend you're listening to the concert while sitting in the middle of a bee hive humming - slightly off key. Or maybe bomber death planes riding shotgun in the sky. Something like that. Have a nice trip. :)

P.S. Crowd noise is why the Beatles quit touring. It would have been really nice to see Sgt. Pepper's performed live, except for all the inconsiderate idiots who couldn't shut up or just sit down and listen while the songs were being played.

I tend to agree Byrd. I try not to bash, but I am not a fan of some of the decisions that go into the mix. I think Dan did a great job making the sound in the arenas, sheds and stadiums sound as good as it could possibly could. Many of the 80's recordings are simply not my favorite, no offense meant. In reading more about this, there are some that claim these ultra mix masters are the best sounding boards made. While I admire their passion, I am simply not a fan of pumping crowd noise into the soundboard recordings. But hey, it's all opinion and what difference does it make anyway.. that's the way it went down and that's the way it is.

All that being said, I had low generation boards of these shows shortly after the tour ended and I recall liking them at the time. These tapes were leant out and never returned long ago. I don't have my 36 yet but Proudfoot said something on the subscription page that resonates with me.. "This new Dave's is potent. You do need to adjust yourself to the audience factor. But once you have done that, you have pure GD energy."

Have a good weekend all.. Day of the Dead. Now.. what to listen to?

@ Huskerwing Yes I have the same problem. My DP36 is also stuck between UPS and USPS. I am a subscriber and it was suppose to arrive here in Va on 10/28/20 but never did. Tracking is still saying it left Butner, NC on Monday 10/26/20 to be inducted into USPS and has not updated since. What do we do?

...Maybe people are still listening? But I'll throw in my 2 cents.

First of all, the crowd noise doesn't bother me much. There are times when it's a little distracting, but I find that after a song or 2 per set, I stop noticing. Or maybe it recedes as the crowd chills, I don't know. The bigger issue to me is the general murkiness of the sound, which again is more muffled at the start of the sets (or else my ears adjust). Midnight Hour and Cold Rain and Snow, which start the first show, sound like a good AUD tape to me. Now, a good AUD tape of a Dead show is better than 95% of anything else you might choose to listen to... but still, it's a good AUD tape. Compared to some of the pristine shows and boxes we've been getting lately, there is a definite difference.

I should add also that the equipment I'm listening on absolutely matters as well. I usually listen to CDs in my car because I drive a lot for work. This release, in my car, is borderline unlistenable (it sounds worse than a good AUD tape). But back home on my nice Onkyo CD changer and 1970s Panasonic receiver and speakers (inherited from my father, and still going strong), it sounds better. Not pristine, but much better.

The performances overall sound tight and very energetic, at least to me. There is no doubt the band was "on" these nights. Jerry's voice sounds good, lyrical flubs are minimal, the solos are energetic and Brent in under control as far as the plinky-plink goes. In fact he's mixed pretty far down and I wouldn't mind him a bit higher, but oh well. His harmony vocals seem on point as well, he's not over-emoting as he tends to do.

First show highlights, for me, include CC Rider, Esau, and Desolation Row, which is a song I haven't much on past releases (is this a first?). China > Rider opens the second set in fine style, and He's Gone stretches out nicely for 13-plus minutes. There are no 30-minute Dark Stars in these shows, but what jamming there is sounds inspired to me, and the energy never flags. Space > Miracle > Black Peter is a strong sequence, and Mighty Quinn ends the show with style.

Show #2 opens with Alabama Getaway, which is solid if not spectacular (and suffers from sonic murkiness). Things ramp up with a sweet West LA Fadeaway, too short at 7 min but funky nonetheless, and then a terrific Little Red Rooster with Bobby absolutely drowning in reverb, which I love -- your mileage may vary. I suspect that the ambient mic piping in the crowd noise had a hand in boosting that reverb effect. True or not, it's swampy as hell and suits the vibe perfectly imo. Later the set closes with a solid TMNS, always a fave of mine. This version absolutely smokes, and benefits from the initial clap-along by the crowd . Bobby's vocals get a little lost but the final jam is extended and scorching, with Jerry completely in the zone and pulling some Johnny Winter-level runs up and down the frets.

Second set opens with Touch, so, okay, but gears up for Samson > Cumberland. Brent's vocals and keys on Cumberland are, again, in service to the song and don't overpower everything else. Estimated > Eyes is also nice, though I prefer the Estimated portion, with lots of jamming and the same tight-but-loose vibe that we've been hearing so far. Nothing face-melting, but nonetheless expressing a kind of joy that's just really infectious. (Post-coma love of life? I couldn't say.) Bobby's vocals are fully present for Estimated, happily. Later in the set, Space into UJB is a lovely transition, and Morning Dew lives up to its hype. It's a powerful version.

Sorry if I've rattled on too long... I used to review records, and tend to go granular. Short version: If you can look past the somewhat muffled sound and happy crowd, the performance is peppy and smile-inducing. I would rate this release a 7/10, subject to going down a point upon further review (it probably will not go up a point).

Stay safe everyone... and please vote :-)

Hey now today is my 10th anniversary as a member of this forum! It has been so interesting and wonderful to share all these great stories and appreciation of grate music. There was also a time when reading these comments saved me from boredom at work! Thanks for all the inspirational reads over the years.

nitecat

Hey Dave, thanks for the in depth review. I've only listened to Midnight Hour, CRS and CCRider. I agree the crowd sound receeds a little into the background, and the energy is very high. I kinda get carried away a little with the enthusiasm, too. I always listen for each player, and I can hear Phil really well, Jerry well and Bobby pretty well. So far not so much Brent. But I aways chalk that up to early sound mixing at the start of the show. I experienced many shows where the sound mix improved as the first set progressed. I hope that is the case here.

Ha..!! here here.

I signed up for tracking updates from USPS.
It was nothing but pre shipping since10/24.
This afternoon I got email that it was delivered. Post Office working hard on Sunday afternoon!
Sunday night listen is almost as good as one more Saturday night I guess. Keep the faith.

Encore is still to come

3 27....

Good review - I am looking forward to hearing this. Living in sunny England, that might not be for a few weeks yet. Interesting that you compare it to an AUD tape. In many ways, this series is starting to remind me of tapes I used to get from a friend about 20 - 30 years ago. After he had generously taped his entire collection, he dubbed any new shows he got, irrespective of year or origin. So I would never know if he had done an audience 1994 or a soundboard 1972 when I turned up at his house. This series is more like that than it is like Dicks Picks, Vaults or Road Trips. The main difference is that with Dave's Picks you have to pay for them - twice over if you live in Europe.

My favorite Dead song is Cumberland Blues and my favorite version is the one on Europe 72. My second favorite version is the one on Workingmans Dead, Garcia adding that banjo in the song, is really a knockout.

....the Europe 72 Cumberland is what got me on the bus. My favorite song too!

There are times in life you say, what the fuck!

First I couldn't believe you'd release two collections with the same name,,,, Angel's Share. Granted my fault,,, I kept seeing Angel's Share and checking my stuff and thinking yeah I got it. Today I realized (through someone else asking me about American Beauty version), that there are indeed two.

FINE! I can live with that.

Went online, ordered, got email, clicked download and got this bullshit about some other software to download first. Why the hell should I need ANYTHING extra to do a simple download!!!?!?!?!?!?

Tried a few times, now it doesn't even take me to a page where download is possible,,,,, more like a commercial page!!!!

Customer service from this "50th anniv american beauty,,,, gnarlywood or whatever is just a handjob and useless.

Anyone else have these issues? Hate to cry "Mary". I will continue my search for the download or help, but ANYONE else have any words on the subject?

Sorry for the terse attitude, but something simple like a download???

Should have used Amazon!

were the frst East Coast shows post-coma recovery, so the crowd energy and gratitude for still having what we came very close to losing and love for Jerry and the Grateful Dead was extremely high and it felt mutual and symbiotic from the band. Candyman, & Touch of Grey from Philly on this tour are good examples.

The tour soundboards are, I believe, Healy matrix mixes heavy on the AUD microphones, so they don't sound much like crisp SBDs like the Bettys we are used to. That has always disappointing to me, but these shows were hot and I'll take 'em as good as they are ever gonna sound.

Mine still stuck in Butner NC also between UPS and USPS. Last tracking on Oct. 26 and was supposed to be here on Oct. 28 now, nothing. Aghhh!

In his 36 essay, Dave writes:

"...I vividly remember every second of this show, from the instant the lights went down and the band walked onstage. Every song, every solo. And one thing that I can still feel, maybe because I was part of it, is the crowd reaction. There were so many distinct, special moments that elicited huge responses from the crowd...."

This is definitely a big part of Sp87: Huge crowd reactions celebrating Garcia's rebirth, so to speak. I'm not always the biggest fan of matrix recordings, but I think it works on these shows that are, btw, loads of fun and high energy. (And to the defense of the matrix - even though I usually opt for the pure SBD in the archive - sometimes a SBD can sound rather lifeless, something these recordings definitely are not.)

As for the Dave's B&P model (wink wink), considering that XLIIs will run you about $50-60 for a 5 pack, these days, I'd say we're still getting a pretty great deal on the subscriptions. For me, it's a no brainer every time. Love it!

PS: Today's 30 days of dead pick (second set of the show) would be a neat filler for Dave's 37. Unique setlist.

Prima facie, I was astounded at the seeming-low quality of the sound on DaP36. But the crowd noise really helped me get into the mood, and after a great Row Jimmy, the Bird Song and Promised really floated my boat. I just started set two, and after hearing plenty of tasty Jerry on China Cat and thinking about where my mind would have been had I been at this show after Jerry's return from his coma, LEAPED from my chair to shout, "I wish I was a HEADLIGHT . . . on a northbound TRAI-AI-AI-AINnnn . . . ! " along with the crowd, tears in my eyes. Then I found myself pumping my fist at the end of LLR as the band keeps driving the song higher and higher.

DaP 36 is pretty cool, to my ears.

Just saw that a box set of early Joni appeared over the weekend. I'm going to hop right on that! Here's some early Joni killing it on Me & My Uncle, for those who haven't seen it:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ounix

And I feel for the European Heads who can't get their discs in a timely fashion. Fed Ex just came to my MN door with a large box of classical CDs from Presto Classical in Britain; they were shipped Wednesday (and we don't even have package delivery on Sundays)!

Vote for kindness. It's the only plan that affects all equally.

Reviewing Dicks Picks 17 (9/25/91).

Just a heads up. Not too far in yet, but it’s Dave!

Oh yeah—maybe vote too if you want!

No Dave’s 36 in Sunshine Orange County yet...

Mine has been sitting in a UPS facility since 28th waiting to be transferred to USPS. I’m hoping that this is because USPS is concentrating its resources on getting all the postal votes to their destinations for counting but that’s probably a pipe dream.
I recommend voting because at least then you have taken part and can celebrate or moan about the result with a clear conscience.

Man-this is the best straight DOD Rader SW guy show- I recall from 87 booke hotel with my wife of 10 months and headed to Hartford view overlooking Capital-peak life great weekends..went to Dinosaur print park for lame but super cool side trip-recall Margarita's pre-show at Margaritaville or similar digs in center-and then Whammo-2 of greatest nights ever of Dead musical peak 87-90-Jerry's wailing vocals on He's Gone are my only memory of seeing Jerry do that abandoned into vocals-relatively shy man for a lifer on stages- Bobby Brent and Jerry all peak-drum solo segway sample last 2 to 3 mins spectacular-Jerry experimenting like he was still rediscovering guitar like new toy! Oh man to relive that weekend again-Great North Special kind of feeling like to take this ride again and again..thanks Dave for truly being man of good taste in spite of limited edition BS Jerry would loathe-I say open gates and release this to as many as can sell as nobody will not want this-i will never sell it on eBay )unless its in my estate heir hands) many I am happy to say I would download. to iTunes and greedily sell for no profit-but this one is a keeper! Before days my spouse would veto show on road and just before epic Broadway Jerry Birthday show of 87 i would say 26-27 years old life does not get much better man! USA was still USA-no cell phones, no internet-Mail order tix decent 1st promenade, orchestra 2nd night--FIrst Touch of Grey for me and the WE will get buy was EPIC truly not commercial newbie tour feel yet at all...and Jerry just blues riffing on 2nd night now drums-he is on fire...just speechless...f-ing Garcia is the Sun with a beard! Later miss you and Hunter dudes....alas....Bobby-hope to see you boys tour-stay healthy beastly Bobby--you are still the man--and Bill the Drummer...and Mickey, I needed this and now Election day Miracle say bye bye to the douche bag Uncle Sam stooge pals-Grifters" HE'S GONE! NOthing is gonna bring Trumpty Dumpty back-I hope! KOT fellow Dead heads-this is mana for the ages!

Forgot to nention best Headlight on Northbound train maybe ever! Post coma grace of God was not Jerry's Black Peter-and Black Peter is great-every song is standout-sound maybe not deep as others but 87 soundboard Healy? what gave...still--this is raw best Dead you can get hands on--put it into good stereo and use the dials and this can override port to mp3 i converted witth 150k -not enough mem for lossless and what good would that do anyway--Yee haw--this is awesome--Jerry is still the undisputed heavy weight guitar champ of live performance ever imho and I respect hell out of Carlos Santana Robert Fripp (Okay never saw Hendrix) Clapton--yep he is the best highest quality soul you can find---just listen and learn rest of you aspiring guitar players- See hear how everything leads up to this day....

Davey Davey this is THE one! The best of the lot hands down with 78 Hartford and Cornell 77 (Was not there for Cornell or 77 but got on bus in 79 down road at SUNY for us "Dumb stateys" my kids made it back in skipped 2 generations)...I agree totally on the crowd- we were so ecstatic after nearly losing Jerry summer before- that is why energy of this show is so sparkly clean and bright...its redeeming...truly thanks for remembering this show -its been long time coming for me-no tapes of this one for me...yes! Good Lovin'

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NvWvOwLCWGg. What a great band. This song influenced the Dead on Viola Lee Blues. Back to my beer and back to my bbq.

Joni was playing At Red Rocks in Morrison CO for first show at the venue (after Dead's only show 8/12/1979 as rained out to McNichols which was good for ticketless me and pal out for summer) recall talking to smoking girl in the VW Bus hitched ride in from Ft.Collins on was surprised she was more psyched to see Joni than the Dead-and we were reading SAME CARLOS CASTANED BOOK ON JOURNEY TO IXTLAN0- not meant to be fore me lol-it did not turn out as I had hoped w girl- but she was almost right on Joni (not quite) -Jone is in my jazzier more recently acquired taste for me- that is so 60s with her pronunciation Anglifying it for TV...man oh man pre-hippy Joni cool!

I have worked my way through UJB in the second show (Dew and JBG await on my ride home) and here is my opinion-- I love this release. My first show was Alpine 1988, so this is close to my era and thinking back to my tapes, 1987 was very well represented-- these are solid 1987 shows. While I prefer the older stuff, this release works for me.

I was playing it Friday and Saturday nights after the family was sleeping and I was in a good frame of mind. Sound-- the audience levels don't bother me and they level down over the course of each set. In my opinion, the audience adds some energy. I left the room briefly and when I returned, I said to myself, "It sounds like a Grateful Dead concert."

The music-- these sound like fun concerts. If these had been my first shows like they were for Dave, I would have never looked back after getting on the bus. From the Midnight Hour to Quinn the Eskimo, night one smokes-- just a fantastic rock and roll concert. Night two, the only complaint is a short post-Drums/Space sequence, but it features a rare UJB in that slot and a Morning Dew. Everything was well played. I very much like this release.

I also like Dave's liner notes. What a mom-- even scoring him a hotel room near the venue. I imagine those high school kids had some stories to tell when they got home!

overall, any official release is welcome. the 26th is good. The 27th is ok, but I haven't listened to that at full volume.

87 has a meh attitude from me because the only show I saw that year was 7/19/87, my first show in three years (GD cancelled October 85 in Tacoma and Portland...still pissed about that), and 86 was the "the year Jerry nearly died".

7/19/87: glad I went, but the GD sets were limp. Set with Dylan was great.

Playin' jam was like...2, 3 minutes? then into He's Gone...

but that's not Daves 36.

Disc 1 wins (Desolation > Birdsong....LOVE IT)
Disc 2 wins, although post-Space is kinda bland. All through Space is fiiiiine.
Disc 3 at least has a Cumberland in set 2 out of S&D
Disc 4 has UJB > Morning Dew

that's how it stands today; you decide if Dave was wise.

Parking meters...no, wait, TRACTORS.

flippin' Captcha

According to the tracking information, my copy has arrived in the Netherlands. How long it will take to be delivered depends mainly on what action the customs choose to undertake - hopefully none.

I get it man.. then are beginning to make it hard for us completist. I am beginning to question their Crack (emphasis on the word crack) Marketing Team.

I missed out on a season of the singles collection.. and I only cared about it until I didn't have it anymore, than I was like fuckit.

And so it is.

Keep it simple, Rhino.. we are and have always been easily distracted. Did somebody say Squirrel?