Grateful Dead

I knew you looked familiar, your the guy next to the biker doing the stabbin', right?

(too soon for that kind of humor?)

I was about 50 feet from that...but like most I didn't know about it until the next day...

Elvis did not appropriate black music, he actually did just what you described as what the Dead did, I'll quote you:
"because they fuse together both styles of Americana music, black heritage and white heritage to make something truly unique." Both the Dead and Elvis borrowed elements of Americana to create their unique blend of music; talking about pre-1956 Elvis, all his Sun sides are unique.
You could argue that the appropriation label would apply more to early 60s Brit bands, who would basically copy vocal phrasings of black singers and note for note solos(Pigpen did the same). Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion, as long as the original artists got more recognition and royalties.
Then there's the Yardbirds appropriating Tiny Bradshaws's Train Kept A Rollin' without crediting him; that's more like theft though.
Anyway, both Jazz and Blues were influenced by western music and western instrumentation since the 1800s. That's a huge subject!

Perhaps, but don't be so quick to judge until you've tasted his turkey mole enchiladas. Maybe worthy of pardon power.

(pulled off some Turkey Enchiladas Verdes a few days ago, they were a big hit as noted by their immediate consumption, the JimInMD house thanks you for the inspiration)

That's how I understand things regarding Elvis.

I agree that the blues covers by Brit bands weren't too hot in the first half of the 60s. One of the great benefits was that they introduced the likes of me to the real McCoy. The Stones -Keith Richards in particular - regularly pointed out where they got their inspiration from in interviews. And there is that famous clip from about 1965 when they introduce Howlin' Wolf on the T.V. programme Shindig!

You're right about Tiny Bradshaw and "The Train Kept A Rollin' "but the original theft was by Johnny Burnette's Rock 'n Roll Trio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkZhJJ8sPmw

Paul Burlinson on guitar!

That video is hilarious

Johnny Burnette credited Tiny Bradshaw as writer, so no theft there; the Yardbirds credited themselves when they changed the lyrics and renamed the song Stroll On.
To make this Jerry relevant: both Johnny Burnette and his brother Dorsey were successful songwriters later on, with Dorsey writing the Magnificent Sanctuary Band, covered nicely by JGB.

Are those moles skinned before use? And do you use the whole mole?

My mother used to skin and then only used the mole rump.

...was pointed out to me this morning.

Did you see Bob Dylan sold his catalog for 300 million!?!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-AvrE0GfOHk. 29 years ago today I was at the Warfield, to see the first of many shows with Garcia & Grisman. These were all very special shows, hopefully the Garcia family will release these shows one day on audio and video.

$300 million for the Dylan catalog. Wow!
Money money money money money!

LEDDED seems to be the most understanding about much of this. Talking is just that...conversation, but there's some borderline "white fragility" on this board, that is if you think that sociology theory is correct. :) Unless I'm misreading the tone wrong, some of y'all get way to sensitive over conversation. That's why I was saying the GD is a "melting pot" they didn't start it, they melded it all together into their own. Thinking is good and that's all I was mentioning stuff for. That's all well and good but if you ask different people about Elvis they would disagree. To each their own and I guess that's the big debate these days...some people think its a big deal and others not so much. Some people flip out when they see a greasy white upper middle class trustafarian with dreadlocks because its not his culture to claim. Others say chill out and let it ride. Depending on if you are white or black, your personal experiences, income, and social standing the opinions and beliefs you hold on are divided and held dearly. The black friends and people I've talked to in the past don't think too fondly of Elvis, some people say otherwise as he inspired some dance moves. Some feel that once again a white dude is getting major props and social credit for doing something done by others first...see exhibit A (plate stand not included)...https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f7/c1/7a/f7c17aa0fa52d82c1275383c193b79e…

Black musicians simply were not respected due to their social/cultural status and perceived economic viability for sales, therefore no one cared and no one gave them a chance. It is what it is, but don't deny it, life viewed from another's perspective its just as valid. The reality of the situation is what I'm curious about.

Not trying to piss any one off but there's a reason when you ask people about who their rock n roll gods are, the only black guy usually mentioned on that list is Hendrix. There's definitely something there to be discussed and it's reflective of our society as a whole. GD family and band members have always been more inclusive than their fans are, I've experienced that first hand over 30 years of shows. Though it did tick me off when Jerry went off on rap music during some interview in the 80s or something. That was some close mindedness I did not think I would see from him (maybe the persian made him grumpy that day), not to mention the subversiveness of the rap scene you thought he might get behind.

Nowadays there's rap acts that sample GD music and rhyme over it...so there's that. The best way I can help make the change I want in this country for my kids and their future is to ask people to think more about the hidden histories of our country and not the ones thrown up by companies looking to cash in. I know there is cross pollination and an ouroboros of destruction and recreation as humanity consumes itself and is reborn as society and cultural change. Some people think individuals are a nucleus of human ingenuity while generational geniuses often express that they "know nothing compared to what is possible to know" & "they can only see farther because they stand on the shoulders of giants." One thing I've come to appreciate in my searching for the sources of things, its all one big clusterfuck. It still doesn't stop me from thinking about it nor from trying to find the true source of inspiration. It's too heavy for most people because the tighter and more reassuring package to hold is the belief that Elvis invented rock n roll or is responsible for its popularity. People like simple answers so they find simple answers. It's way more exhausting to continually reinvent one's own ideas or interpretations but it pays off in the long run of life.

Jay Lane (yup from Ratdog) and a bunch of friends put this together...ya'll probably heard about it cause it was all over lots many summers ago at this point. They did a whole album...I think, but its not the easiest thing to come across. Not the most bang up thing ever recorded but it sure was neat to the younger fans...I remember, maybe.

Back to The River (Franklin's Tower sample)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK6x7R4KnHY

Box of Sunshine (Row Jimmy sample)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNdTCTDlCYk

Mine had the skin on.. the trick for Mole Verde is 30 min before cooking you toss them in a punch bowl of green kool aid and voila, verde fur. A nice parlor trick.

I'm kinda thinking that #38 will be 9/16/72 with bonus 9/15.

sorry sub's thread seems to be locked or something.

Direwulf-I think most people who listen to rock n' roll would also credit black performers such as Ike Turner, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Bo Diddley and Fats Domino as being foundational rock n roll performers who were contemporaneous with Elvis. It was a music that made as step towards breaking down racial barriers.

You still haven't said which black performers you have heard who sounded like Elvis Presley. The blues tracks he cut sounded nothing like the originals, that I have heard.

In the 60s, a lot of people would point out that some of the best records were made by black performers - and not just Jimi Hendrix. But they weren't necessarily rock n' roll records. I have over 30 cds of material recorded on Stax records alone-but not many of the tracks on them are what I would call rock n' roll-or rock of any sort. Same with Tamla Motown.

And when you consider all the classic jazz records made in the 1950s and 1960s-many more were made by black musicians than white, I would think. Everything by Miles Davis for a start.

1000s of great blues records too, by black artists throughout the 50s and 60s. Way too many to mention, but again, not just Jimi Hendrix.

To credit Elvis Presley and Sam Phillips with their innovative sound, and it surely was innovative, in no way diminishes the achievments of any of the above.

I saw Big Mama Thorton play a couple of times and she was really cool, but I dig the version of Hound Dog that Elvis does way more. As far as Blue Moon of Kentucky goes, I like both versions equally, Bill Monroe's and Elvis's

Billy the Kid- that must have been something, seeing Big Mama Thornton. That puts T.Rex in the shade.

Another great original and cover was Mystery Train. The original by Junior Parker is great, and the cover by Elvis, which is totally different, is also brilliant.

https://youtu.be/gELe5Rj_tXU

....and raise my glass to the latest GarciaLive release.
This will stay on my "currently playing" end table for awhile.
Birthday show for me. I turned 3, which is indeed a magic number.
I've been away entertaining my 3 granddaughters that recently visited.
We went to the Adventuredome at Circus Circus. No lines. Rides for daze. Oh yeah. And Lazer Tag.
I feel 3 years younger.

Exceptional. The clip of her at the train station was in the North West of England, not far from where I grew up. I think Muddy Waters and a fewe other blues performes were filmed at the same time and place.
Great the way she used to dress like my grandma but could rock out like Jimi Hendrix.

https://fb.watch/2f8Uyk7L1g/

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-GtSA5S_jR0 29 years ago today, another cool show at the Warfield. Red Rocking Chair.

Direwulf, you did misread the tone of my reply; my point was that Jazz, Blues and Country did not happen in a vacuum and had black and white influences(obviously, not in equal parts.) This has nothing do with "white fragility".
By the way, we forgot Ray Charles as a major rock and roll influence, thanks to his classic Atlantic sides.

Pretty cool Carlo.

Billy.. Will check out Garcia / Grisman at some point today.

Lots to do today, onward.....

Oh, and Senator, looking forward to getting my new Garcia Live hopefully today.. , but the USPS Gods have not been smiling on my lately. It's like the old Music Today warehouse has taken over the postal system. My packages seem to going all over the Eastern US, then sometimes back to distributions centers for a second or third time. It's almost like somebody reprogrammed the automated distribution vector software and added some infinite loops.

Or in the Words of Jerry Garcia, "It's really too weird here, it really is" If I can find one, a free dead sticker to the first person to name the show... if I can't find one (unlikely) I will have tried.

Oh, and Cousins/Direwulf.. a tip of the hat to Ray Charles. I saw him and Fats Domino with my father and brother at a New Orleans JazzFest 20 or so years ago (I dragged them out and paid for flights and hotels).. I know I have told this story here before, but it's cool enough for a redux.. my dad told tales of his life in the 50's. He was the youngest of 11, so bedrooms were often doubled up.. but he lived in the Western suburbs of Baltimore and used to prop up the window and hop out after dark and head down to what are referred to as the seedy sections of Baltimore and see black R&B/Blues acts including Charles and Domino, then get back before dawn and crawl through the window hoping nobody noticed. When I heard this I was floored.. gave me a little source of pride, respect and honor. Perhaps that's where I got it from....

May the four winds blow you safely home.

Did you catch her at the SF Blues Festival, 78 or so? That was a great day, biggest treat was seeing 40s R&B shouter Roy Brown. Free festival too, right in Golden Gate Park.

Really enjoying Jerry and Merl’s playing from this 5/71 release. The Crosby-penned “The Wall Song” is awesome and much closer spiritually to the earlier PERRO, Crosby demo sessions for his ‘71 solo album. Of course, when the song was officially released with a much different tempo and sound on that first Crosby & Nash album in ‘72, Jerry, Phil and Bill all played on the track.

In any event, GarciaLive 15 smokes and is unlike the later JGB releases sonically. A bit of primal edge from the ‘60’s on this one perhaps. Enjoy the listen!

Dave—mission’ that second box release that usually gets me through this time of the year. 2020’s been a bitch. Let’s all get through this alive. Peace and good health to all Deadheads and loved ones.

Hey Cousins, yeah, I saw her at the bandshell in Golden Gate Park at the S.F. Blues Festival. I also saw her at a Blues Festival on the U.C. Berkeley Campus, I believe in 1974, George Harmonica Smith and Sonny Terry & Brownie Magee were also on the bill. Boy, I sure miss those S.F. Blues Festivals, I went to a lot of them, they were a blast!

Estimated Prophet going into the commercial of the Baltimore Ravens game tonight. My time comin' any day.. don't worry about me no.

The times they are a changin'...

Edit: Got a Lost Sailor in the second half.

Jim, you missed a Cumberland in there as well...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=95kv2JjD-6k

...that's a good one. Has some groovy stuff, pretty jammy overall and unique. It's a good one to seek out if you don't have it.

RIP.

Sixtus

Any cat that can hang with Jerry has got to be just aaaallll right . . .

Both awesome

And a way to make people listen to Jerry without them knowing it until they ask “who is this?”.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HW33SgZlM. Garcia and the Dead sure did a great cover of this song. The first time I heard the Dead play this was 8/16/81 up at McArthur Court , in Eugene Oregon.

...in addition to the Good Ole GD, another of My Favorite Things just shattered the universe with the ridiculously amazing Star Wars info droppage yesterday:

https://www.starwars.com/news/future-lucasfilm-projects-revealed

May The Force Be With You.
And Jerry.

Sixtus

That list of Star Wars future projects instantly made me think of the Garcia Family Provisions merchandising model. 😬

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OHfD-HBBtZU I saw Garcia do a great version of this with David Grisman at the Warfield Theatre, right after they did a great version of Drink up an go Home, it was very cool.

I hear they are bringing back Sean Connery as the new aged 00bi Wan Kenobi.

Star Wars brand cannabis.
There’s already a Light Saber strain, although I don’t think that Disney is getting any royalties.

Millennium Falcon Sativa, it will make your mind go warp speed.

....keep you eyes open for a strain called Obi-Wan. I got a couple of pre rolls about a year ago that laid me out. Haven't been able to find it since. Well worth the search. Trust me. I'm a Wookie.

ok, you're making me pull out my star wars nerd-dom. The Millennium Falcon don't do no warp speed,, that be star trek. Falcon's drop into hyperspace. :-)

ck those pms

Isn't that obi strain made from old Sean Connery?

There's got to be a good star wars weed strain joke here just waiting to be told. Here's hoping V guy has a few up his sleeve. My brain is wracked after a long week of work.

I did take this occasion to listen to 12-11-72. How nice would a 3-show '72 Winterland box set be, a la the '73 one?

My Star Wars fandom well full hyperspace with those announcements. Well I won't guarantee that everything Lucasfilm produces will be great, i am still going to be checking them all out. I don't know if any of you watch the Mandalorian. If you haven't seen it yet, I recommend checking it out. I have been really enjoying that show and if even one or two of those new shows are at that level, I will be happy.

...but I'm Supreme-ly happy.

From The Belly Up Tavern, sipping on some Crown Royal Cask No. 16...smooth...ok show's starting...

....what? Searching now.
Found it. I have twenty bucks.
Edit. I accidentally backed out of the stream and can't figure out how to get back in. Good for 48 hrs though. I'll figure it out.