Grateful Dead

If I recall correctly, the apogee of this syndrome occurred perhaps 5 years ago when the discussion veered toward whether to let the mashed potatoes touch the pork chops as one chowed down on dinner.

Blew my mind. Yet, I'm still undecided on that point....

Next up: the DaP 38 reveal, sometime in December, which starts Tuesday. I'm all ears. And looking forward to that flamethrower discussion... if we have weeks to go to word on DaP 38, I'm all flamethrower all the time.

Whatever that means.

It's all about the aim, Oroborous.. When used properly and with good aim, hand grenades will cause no harm to the vermin that annoy you and will usually convince them to relocate to a different part of the county. The same can be said about deft usage of a high quality, accurate flamethrower (which gets considerably harder when the mice make it indoors..) perhaps a topic for another day perhaps.

I knew you techies would have more to say on tone and style over the years. Interesting discussion, many thanks.

A little more on the modifications made on the Nash Strat over the years.. the first guitar Jerry began to heavily modify.

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/jerry-garcias-alligator-fender-strat-i….

When vermin control takes center stage.. yes, we need a new release.. (or at least word of what the new release is going to be)

Okay, a couple comments. Yes, Oroborous, the flip side of getting different sounds with different guitars is the way a player can sound like him or herself on different axes. True and good point.

Um, Keef has 500 effin' guitars?! Okay, that's just ONE TOO MANY.... 499? Okay. But 500?? That's just over the top! (Confession: I have three useful acoustics; my fav is a Martin D-35. I have five electrics and have been playing the '64 Gretsch 6120 hollowbody a lot lately, and the aforementioned SG in open D.)

Lastly, LedDed, I too -- if forced -- would pick Jer's Nash Strat on the Euro tour as my favorite sound, but you're right, one can't separate the Strat from the peak music and improvisation.

I do own an American SG and an American Strat and love playing both (if crudely). I'd say, the Fender needs more power to achieve its signature tone, while the SG kinda needs to be restrained. The SG was more expensive and I feel the components are of higher quality. To me, the SG stays in tune better. I can tune from standard to, say, open D, on the SG for some fingerpicking and the SG holds the tuning more accurately than the Strat.

Of course, Jer's choice of instrument -- as someone pointed out -- also must be evaluated/enjoyed in relation to the instrument choices of the rest of the band, particularly Bobby. And yes, I liked Bob's ES335 tone best in the Euro setting. Gawd, what a tour! Maybe time for another full show from that insane run. I still marvel that me and two pals took 2 1/2 years to work through that 22-show box. Some of those four-disc shows required sleep-overs, though I do recall a few moderately perilous drives home after a 3 1/2 hour Euro show.

Good stuff. What's next? Oh yeah, DaP 38 (big '73 show) and that 2021 fall '72 box! (I need to get out and socialize, obviously....).

I wonder if Jerry changed guitars at all during individual sets? He doesn't seem to have done, although as I write this, I do have a distant memory of him changing to a strat for Space in one of the late period dvds - maybe in the View From the Vaults series.

I agree that Bob's guitar playing sounded much stronger when he was playing the Gibsons. Watching that Egypt show, one of the factors I am not so keen on is his sound. It looks as though he is playing an Ibanez. The sound is quite cheap and tinny. And if that wasnt bad enough, he also plays lot of slide on it.

Imagine what Jerry could have done with a guitar like the one pictured to the left of this message. Big River etc could have really shone.

LD, I agree with much of your post Sir, but feel I must respectfully disagree and provide rebuttal about the slanderous over generalization about JGs diminishing skills, sloppiness, and laziness in the eighties.
I will fully agree that his personal issues and overindulgences could negatively impact his proficiency at times.
But I believe he, like most that play that much for that long, continued to grow in versatility, ability, and knowledge.
Yes the overall arrangements and cohesiveness of songs was affected due to lack of band rehearsal, they’ve all admitted to that, and yes this could be attributed to him, and yes he unarguably had occasions of terribleness, but even during his worst times he always had a guitar with him...name a era and his M.O. was always a tv, a guitar, a pack of smokes, and yes sometimes other more destructive things. But he always kept playing! His supposed only complaint about E72 was they didn’t play enough. He always played as much as possible, and when you did get the real deal I argue he was continually evolving.
As far as gizmos and distortions;
1) he always loved that sort of thing, there just was way less reliable stuff back then, and
2) they always played to the times!
Whether consciously or not, from sixties psychedelic, to early 70s “country” rock, disco, to yes, harder rock, they always tastefully reflected the times without selling out or over doing what was en Vogue. So I think his use of such was for these reasons rather than being “lazy and sloppy“.
Personally, I argue they OVERALL became a more professional, including lights and sound, band. There were times in the seventies when they'd tune before almost every song, for longer then the song, and still be outta tune. That didn't happen much later on. They’d tune less often and in less time.
Certainly everyone has preferences and is entitled to their opinions, I’ve just never liked generalizations, either pro or negative. No offense, for the sake of conversation just contesting that point.
Peace!

Remember, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

Chiming in on Jer's ever changing stable of axes, the best playing I ever hear out of him is on Europe 72. The whole tour, with Bickershaw Festival being to me the all-time high water mark for both he and the band. That cream colored Strat originally gifted him by Graham Nash is my all time favourite Jerry sound. But it goes hand in hand with his playing; he was then at the very height of his powers.

Gibsons, to me, sound fuller and thicker than Fenders due to their humbucking pickups (sometimes P90's) which tend to be less trebly. The stock single coil bridge pickup on a Stratocaster will slice your head clean off. It's a nearly useless sound... got to at least get into one of the clucky positions between bridge and mid, or neck for a little more warmth. Unless of course you're playing surf guitar or country twang.

Gibsons also generally prefer heavier strings, .010's at least due to their shorter scale length, whereas your typical Strat-style is usually set up for .009's. This is the gauge of the thinnest, high E-string for the uninitiated. The heavier strings also stay in tune better, along with the hardtail or stop-tailpiece/bridge on a Gibson. Fenders tend to be harder to keep in tune particularly if one uses the original tremolo bar mechanism (just listen to Hendrix live). Unless your name is Jeff Beck or David Gilmour, and you are a tone magician of the highest order.

There are exceptions... Stevie Ray Vaughan played with very heavy strings on his Strats, got a fat tone and generally stayed in tune. Stretching your strings is also one of the most important things in keeping an axe in tune throughout the rigors of a live set.

Jerry began putting a lot more gizmos into his signal path as time went on and his skills diminished, as well. He began to hide his sloppiness and lazy playing behind a wall of distortion and effects throughout the later 1980s and especially into the 1990s. Hell, Brent even began taking solos that used to be the exclusive territory of one Jerome John Garcia.

I still love all the music, and I enjoy Jerry in his later years, but nothing tops the man on fire around E72 era for both tone and technique. I also like Bob backing him on on the ES335 before he went all trebly and transparent, a sound that he maintains to this day.

\m/

Sorry Dwight lol.
HF your both correct and not...
What you said is true, but I’d argue that an instrument pared with the right player can plug into any rig and do there thing! Conversely, much of the sound/tone that we dissect is due to the technology. Like can you imagine what JG would of sounded like on Live Dead plugging that SG into his 1990 rig? And to those that hate the midi etc, do you really think they wouldn’t have used the technology in 1969 if it was available? So it’s a complicated interesting thing.
I do like the biting sound of the SG in JGs hands, but it’s often too thin sounding to me via others use. That was another of his great qualities; getting awesome tone and finding ways to make what ever axe he was using sound better than the same one used by others.
My only problem with the Gibson’s etc, was they were out of tune too much. Just like some folks can’t take his vocals after “x” (critics can fill in their date) It’s hard for me to listen to out of tune guitars and vocals. Now I’m not talking the occasional instance, but when I notice enough instances during a particular show that it colors my recollections it. Unfortunately, this is why I dont dig 70-71 as much as most. Great set lists, ultimate creative period, amazing versatility (acoustic, pedal steel, and electric all in one night...foe git about it!) but sorry to be a bummer but a lot of that era is outta a tune! The vocals are more noticeable on 2 trac only, as multitrack allows later manipulation and blending; just listen to the awesome new Capital theater releases! I wonder if they’ve used a touch of auto tune to clean em up too?

Eventually, the advent of the electric tuner would help, but if instruments don’t stay in tune while your playing.....
This was one of the big reasons Bob and Phil started using Modulus Graphite instruments; The carbon fiber wasn’t as susceptible to extreme temperature shifts etc so they stayed in better tune.
So it’s a the ole yin yang again; you love the era but have trouble with the tuning etc, or you love the more professionalism, sound, and effects, (and yes I think they got way more professional as years went by) but you don’t dig the R&R Cocaine train energy etc....that’s our boys, never perfect, but always great! Lol
Speaking of the Bean, I believe it’s more the equipment that your referring too as the purpose of the Bean with its metal neck was to facilitate huge sustain (density of wood does so too, but not as much as metal!) Reverb wouldn’t be a characteristic of an instrument but a product of a reverb unit or setting on the Fender Twin Reverb and ultimately the room. Both kinds would be affected somewhat by recording techniques.
My understanding of the main reason he used the Beans was to supposedly have more reliability on the road. Not being fully customized you’d be able to carry replacement parts could be easily swapped out on the road, where as the Irwin would have to go to the shop. I don’t dig the Bean as much as I used to, but again, if you plugged it into later years it probably would not have the same issues...
All that being said, I like the Tiger best! I loved the Wolf, but the Strat has really grown on me over the years, again more because of the hands it was in than it being a Fender. Totally dig the Gibson’s for the more hard rock 60s psychedelic sound, and with the extra distortion you don’t notice when outta tune as much, but as I say it’s hit or miss for me later on, but that’s just me...
Didn’t dig his later years sound as much but that’s more a product of the tech involved than the instruments.
I thought contrary to the company line that when they stopped using actual speakers on stage and ran direct even with the speaker simulators it didn’t sound right. I understand totally why they did it, and it did help to address those concerns, but I think it lost some of the naturalism and that perfect R&R blend of clean and dirty etc, but agin, that’s just me....I thought they started getting too convoluted near the end and sounded too plastic? or clean and not enough like a R&R band. I know this is why Doc and others love 71 so much. That hard slightly dirty, not so techie R&R sound that became too clean for some. The sound of a bar band pushing the timeless simple set up of a good tube amp slightly overdriven! Like the sound that sucked me in: Johnny B Goode from Skullfuck! Tasty !
But my favorite everything GD wise will always be 89-90 because of the versatility to be able to get the whole sonic spectrum, but again, that’s just me...(Interestingly, JGs core infrastructure, unlike Phil and more so Bob, didn’t change that much after he started using the Twin/MC 2300/ JBL E120 set up, just the effects etc changed)
Ultimately, the truest form of greatness is the ability to plug into anything, and immediately be recognizable because of the signature uniqueness, tone and style!
JG of course, Hendrix, Page (usually), Clapton (usaully), Santana, Miles, hell even the edge and Slash. You can tell the great ones instantly!
Lol, ok, sorry, too much coffee and nothing to do here too!

Uncle Sammy is both humorous and right on about vacuuming being best, but I’m curious if you have a special device? I’ve only tried my household vac with the smallest attachment, which helps, but doesn't really do the job. That’s where I find using the air to blow out the hard to get stuff in conjunction with vacuuming is best, but I need to investigate some sort of small precision vacuum?

CONEKID: wonder what kind of range it has? I need something like that for prairie dogs, moles and field mice, not to be mistaken with Mayor Field!
I was looking into water guns but was disappointed by the inherent idiosyncrasies of most, and that the one that would of worked is no longer available except on the black market for too much...
I don’t want to kill em for various reasons, but I’ve read that if you make them not welcome they will retreat a bit which is all I’m looking for: “damn kids, get off my lawn!”
I need something quick; as the enemy is lightning fast!, versatile, most importantly accurate with enough range and power to get the job done but not so much I’m killing them? Currently I try and hose em but their so damn quick and smart that I don’t often get a good shot...“Remember, to kill the gofer you have to be the gofer!”

That is my favourite Jerry Garcia tone-the one recorded on Live Dead. It seemed quite a popular choice on the West Coast in the late 60s-incredible tones on the same instrument by Barry Melton, and especially John Cippolina..
The other ingredient in defining sound is the player, of course.
One of the interesting things about watching a post 1989 Stones show is how often Keith Richards changes guitar within one set. He typically plays various telecasters-some in open G with only 5 strings, to Gibson 335s, to Les Paul Juniors to strats. I think he's got about 500 at home.

The SG is in, I had to sleep on this one.