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    marye
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    Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

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  • #2331
    JimInMD
    Joined:
    More on GD/Amps/US Navy

    I was close... if you google it you will get an answer pretty quick. Here is a quick quote from my first google land.

    Rosie McGee was cracking up at her desk when Dennis "Wiz" Leonard walked in from lunch.

    "What's the story?" Wiz asked McGee, then a receptionist and bookkeeper at Alembic, a California-based custom electric guitar, bass, and pre-amp company where Wiz worked as an audio engineer.

    "Well, the Department of Defense just called me," she told him. "They were asking if we could defer the purchase of our next four 3500s, so they could get four."

    Those amps were in high demand at Alembic. The 3500s, in particular, would be used in the Wall of Sound's vocal array tweeters, drum tweeters, and for Jerry Garcia's guitars. But was it just Alembic buying them up? A rumor was going around—a "urban myth," Wiz told me—that the US military was using Mac 3500s for sonar, specifically to listen for Soviet submarines.

  • #2332
    Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Passing the Test

    Isn't the goal here to be lighthearted? I try my best to not let the craziness of the world/media not get to me here? Isn't the goal here to be a kind prankster? They ask, "Are you kind?" Most of the flamers I look like as children, either actual age or not. Many are so deep in social media and issues that result thereof, they cannot see what it is doing to them. They are being handled, manipulated, and unwittingly abused by the profiteers. I try to stay away.

    Jim, had no idea of the McIntosh amp issues. Thanks for that piece of info. As much as I love the music, it is just how they were. So real and fun which someone wrote, "creating their own iconography." The richness of their traditions and internal musical dialog that we love is an unending source of comfort as they lived it everyday for 30 years. I wish I had a shot at hearing even 50% of their music, but as I have written before, my OCD makes me wear out a great jam over and over instead of looking for the next one. Need to work on that for sure.

    So Jim and Oro and many others, thanks for passing the test.

    G

  • #2333
    JimInMD
    Joined:
    GFar

    You are kind soul.. I appreciate all you provide here. Same goes to Oro. I think it would take a face to face to catch me up on all the technology (old or new) that the two of you bring for me to truly understand. As for old.. and I am sure you both know.. in either late 73 or early 74 (I think 73).. the GD got into a scuffle with DOD over equipment they were ordering that was desperately needed for national security. Apparently, the Macintosh amps they were buying in unprecedented numbers were needed both in general and more specifically by special, top secret subs that needed the clean sound and amplification to either detect enemy interference or better hear and make stealth the noise they were making. So they called the GD and tried to work out a way to either stall, postpone or barter a purchasing arrangement that would not jeopardize national security.

    I think this is well known, and I apologize in advance for going on memory and surely confusing some of the information listed above as fact. ..but what is written is pretty close, if someone can clarify and correct it would not offend me in the least.

    Hope I didn't write anything that was incorrect or in any way interpreted as insulting or offensive.

    As for chainsaws and sawzaws to clear way for our living room WOS.. what could possibly be more fun.

  • #2334
    Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Sawzaw

    Ah the sounds of my earliest fun dentist. "You dont need no gas!"

    All my stereo stuff is old, always fussy. Running all old Yamaha into JBL (plus svs). Trying to get stuff cleaned and parts replaced. When it is on, it is quite the stereo indeed. I have an old yamaha eq that I hooked up when Dave's first show was released. Goes into Pre amp, then to a yamaha mx-830. The MX-830 is powering 4 jbl g300's and 2 jbl LX 600's. Running 6 speakers means the amp is running at 550 watts at 2 ohms. It cooks. The speakers all have same tweeters and mid ranges. The 300s run 8" woofers and the 600s have 10 inch woofers. It is old but as you say "in budget." Smile.

    edit:
    Then the svs has a 550 watt continous, 850 watt peak sledge. The svs I picked up a few years back for $399. I had to have a sub with an internal crossover. So out of preamp to svs (rca cables), then back into the preamp, then to amp. Having old yamaha means older connection points. Modern amps control the crossover themself and pump sub out already crossed over. I happen to run my internal sub amp at a cutoff of 82 hz. George Lucas uses 80 hz crossover in his THX sound systems. So I am slightly above that. I did some sampling of the room using the preamp features.

    G

  • #2335
    JimInMD
    Joined:
    Do you have any '74 Dijon?

    Neanderthal's use chain saws.. a sophisticated audiophile attacks their living rooms delicately with a sawzaw.

    I'm totally jealous.. I am blasting with my 20 year old Denon, similar age speakers with no intents on upgrading anytime soon. Budgets be budgets..

  • #2336
    Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Yeah

    Can you imagine writing the real equipment book? With the constant upgrading of the system, that book would be multiple enormous volumes. Hope the Meyers have logged a lot of their research.

    No 18's here. Of course not needed.

    Back last year, Oro, you asked if I was running multiple subs. I am not. I have a 12" SVS Systems sub with built in Sledge D amp. It is like the rabbit, it is a thumper. Goes down to 13 or 15hz, so below the 20hz of human hearing. That is, if all memories about frequency response are still good. Starting to get the old enough to question my own thoughts at times.

    I am still hoping for the day when we can listen to WoS through a system that takes us to the "Fare the Well" P.A.. Would have to be software based, but I look at it like 4K upcoding an HDTV signal.

    Wow, FTW PA is now 7 years ago. Bet the Meyers' have gone way beyond that. I almost applied for a job at Meyer 7 years ago. Was in my career field. POTHead.

    That 2015 system had multiple flying 18's. It also had a load balancing system. This was done by having 2 systems, intake and outake. That is, they had 100 microphones throughout the stadium to push into the analytics software. Of course, the output systems was not connected except thru analytics, to the input system to avoid feedback. Brilliant. The analytic input system could then be used to balance the PA by section of the of the stadium.

    Sorry for interruption but I wanted find the article on pro sound web about 2015 FTW PA.

    I did actually find it, but not by searching pro sound web, but by searching internet at large and it found it on the pro sound web site, even though pro sound web could not find it in its own search.

    Let me know, maybe I can send lynk thru PM here, not sure if they cut that off.

    Any way need to do a little work after lunch. I mean a little work.

    G

  • #2337
    Oroborous
    Joined:
    Ha

    That’s what chain saws are for!

    Gary, I think besides trying to keep up with Garcia, Phil was using that big system on stage to help fill in those near field areas (up front etc) we were discussing, the areas that didn’t get proper coverage from the PA?
    What some refer to as the Phil Zone, though to me that’s was where both his stage sound and the PA sound merged and acoustically coupled.
    But yeah, My spine tingles and can still feel rather than hear those sub frequencies in my DNA. (By sub I mean below the threshold of hearing, not a subwoofer). Those Meyers 18”s in the PA were ridiculous in the right spot, in the right venue etc.
    Plus, it’s the Grateful Fucking Dead so why not go big!

    PS, that Grateful Dead gear book is great, though a little dialed down.

  • #2338
    JimInMD
    Joined:
    I want what Phil's having...

    Home version. 18"'s and 4"'s. If I move some things around, they should fit.

  • #2339
    Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Oro

    thanks for the write-up, input. Need a little time to read again and ponder. Think again we are speaking the same language but as 90% of communication is non verbal, some times the written language let's us down.

    It seems I have the dead's equipment book, need to track that down. Not necessarily for this discussion but just to find it again...

    Should have figured Phil would use Meyer systems. Using 18's onstage, wow!

    Hope all well your way!

    G

  • #2340
    Oroborous
    Joined:
    Phil’s Rig

    As of late 82 or early 83 Phil was using 4 Meyers cabinets: (4 -18”, 4 -15”), 2 per cabinet powered by custom PIE amps, until they started not using speakers on stage in 92. (Which I didn’t like).

    Not sure I get all what your saying? I agree that Soundboards do not sound natural for many reasons.
    Perhaps your referring to the phenomena of Microphones not having frequency response to accurately record bass waves combing sub sonic frequencies at those kind of SPL levels?
    Mic location can also make a big difference and was partly why Dan started the tapers section. Unless you have the right knowledge and equipment chances are a recording made too close will mot sound good.
    Plus you have the physics: the lower the frequency, the longer the sound wave. If your too close you’ll not hear the fully formed bass note etc.
    In fact if your too close much of the PA sound will blow right by you. You’ll also not properly experience stereo imaging. That’s why usually, the sound board or just before it was THE place to be. It was a trade off going up front: yeah you were up close and could see and hear their stage sound, but the PA mix was so above and beyond you that you missed a lot of info. Eventually they added little Meyers boxes, usually sitting on the front of the stage to add some vocals etc for those up close.
    Nothing comes for free! Personally, like Bear, I didn’t like the stereo set up because of this. Unless you were in the right spot, you missed a lot of info, especially if you were sitting on the side!
    This was the main reason Reserved seating sucked: nobody could sit where they wanted so if you were a sound nut like us, you often had to endure less than perfect sound/mixes.

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Submitted by marye on
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Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.
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Submitted by Vguy72 on Fri, 02/26/2021 - 07:40

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....yes Dave. One of the more interesting ones I've come across.
"Ira Kaplan and Georgia Hubley formed the band as a couple in 1984. They chose the name "Yo La Tengo" (Spanish for "I have it," referring to a female-gender object or person). The name came from a baseball anecdote that occurred during the 1962 season, when New York Mets center fielder Richie Ashburn and shortstop Elio Chacón found themselves colliding in the outfield. When Ashburn went for a catch, he would scream, "I got it! I got it!" only to run into Chacón, a Venezuelan who spoke only Spanish. Ashburn learned to yell, "¡Yo la tengo! ¡Yo la tengo!" instead. In a later game, Ashburn happily saw Chacón backing off. He relaxed, positioned himself to catch the ball, and was instead run over by left fielder Frank Thomas, who understood no Spanish and had missed a team meeting that proposed using the words "¡Yo la tengo!" as a way to avoid outfield collisions.[5] After getting up, Thomas asked Ashburn, "What the hell is a Yellow Tango?""
Hilarious. Don't miss those team meetings Frank!!

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Submitted by proudfoot on Fri, 02/26/2021 - 08:41

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pretty good

all together now..."it's not Europe 72, but..."

it's still pretty good

PS I got my work done that day, my friends...luckily, I didn't have to answer to my dad, since he is in Salem Oregon

update on 12/3/79...there's one of those weird patches where all of a sudden we go from soundboard to the hallway and then back to the soundboard.

Onward into Friday. I will do my best to stay focused on my ish.

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Submitted by JimInMD on Fri, 02/26/2021 - 11:07

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Perhaps my favorite '77 show, add in the bonus tracks and you have a really special release.

Thanks for carrying the torch folks and keeping this alive. Been a bit busy the last few weeks and struggling just to hang on here. Gotta admit, I missed a few of these shows. Trying to manage getting stuff done with the best winter we have had here in more than a decade. Winter is fun, GD is fun, winter and GD is more fun. Add 2/26 to the mix, sublime.

Blink or relax for just a moment and when you snap out of it.. you're old. I cannot play as hard as I used to.

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Submitted by proudfoot on Fri, 02/26/2021 - 11:09

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some slowness in there

2/26/77: Jerry sparkling and spry

2/17/79: still plenty bouncy

12/3/79: ssaayyyyy whhhhaaaa...? Terrapin and Wharf Rat....

Jerry, Jerry, Jerry.

It must have been horrifying for the rest of the band to see such a rapid decline.

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Submitted by Thats_Otis on Fri, 02/26/2021 - 12:08

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I think I might do a first course of Uptown 81, followed by a Swing 77 dessert!

Happy Friday, DeadLand! Keep the good vibes rolling!

Of, for those of you who like a good Matrix, here is 2/26/81: https://archive.org/details/gd1981-02-26.mtx.chappell.sb02a.28383.sbefa…

Like most shows, give it a minute to "settle down easy" :)

Peace

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Submitted by Thats_Otis on Fri, 02/26/2021 - 12:13

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Def. not a top-tier pick for me, which is a shame because Fall/Winter 79 is one of my favorite periods of GD. Kind of puzzled why this was chosen, TBH. However, if memory serves, the "Truckin'" is massive if listened to in the proper state of mind and at the proper volume (LOUD!) I do love the artwork on this one...

Overall though, many better shows from this era.

Peace

I think we all know what the top picks are and what constitutes as filler.

If we all had a crystal ball of truth.. it would reveal what we know. Each year until this comes to a screeching halt.. we are going to get a mix of what is deemed releasable shows. The great and the truly good.

That's how it's gonna play out my friends. No need to hope each and every show is a top ten. I will add, I want to see all the releasable shows get a Full Norman. What we are listening to each day and night is history and these shows need to get released.. here's my twenty five bucks, bring it, even 12/3/79, which is not the worst Dave's Picks..

On a separate note, all the remaining Dave's Picks need to have a Cumberland or they will have a revolution on their hands. Who's with me?

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Submitted by bob t on Fri, 02/26/2021 - 19:39

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I am happy with what we get.. I was thinking how some releases are wow for the quality or reputation... Others like the July 78 box were more of whoa we have soundboard releases that never existed to us... Would I be happy if we got a Dane County from Feb 15, 1973 oh yes, but a Feb 24, 1973 University of Iowa show would fall into that July 78 box set release type of emotion.. That type of release is what I wish we would get a little more often, but I wonder what the potential amount of releases would even fall into that category . be good everyone. bob t

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Submitted by unkle sam on Sat, 02/27/2021 - 09:02

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I am there, DARK STAR

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Submitted by The Good Ole G… on Sat, 02/27/2021 - 09:21

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I'm there with BTK, UNKLESAM, ICECRMCNKD & everyone else who loves these shows.

52 years ago, 4 of the greatest shows ever started at the Fillmore West and holy shit they're amazing.

The Dark Star the band played on 2/27 is beyond.... description.

Big props to Betty Cantor for picking this one out of the bunch and putting it on the first live Grateful Dead release for all of us to freak out over.
Crazy, she did that before I was even born.
Bow to the Queen.

My little memory on the importance of the Fillmore West Complete Box Set release. (which I've told before)
I saw on the internet that the Grateful Dead was going to release all of Europe '72, I hadn't been collecting the Dead in years as I was booking local rock shows at a club and was into a completely different local music scene that had been eating my brain so in many ways I felt that I'd moved on from the Dead.

But seeing that the WHOLE Europe '72 tour was going to be released just stopped me in my tracks.
When I followed the rabbit down the hole..
one of the first things I saw, they'd already released the COMPLETE Fillmore West '69 run!
The Bus came by that day, and I got back on.

WALSTIB indeed.

This Dark Star rules.

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Submitted by Oroborous on Sat, 02/27/2021 - 09:23

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...be a Debbie downer. I just don’t like when EVERYDAY is a “anniversary” pick, or more to the point, perhaps SOMETIMES we do an anniversary from different years that never get any love.
But who can the weather (or the music) command.
Onward!

EDIT: I’ve been blissfully wallowing in Dave’s Picks 33, 35, 36, and 37. Still have that 72 stuff to get to, but some 69 is always fine, yuck, yuck..

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Submitted by The Good Ole G… on Sat, 02/27/2021 - 09:49

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Haha

This is not "this Day in Dead History" you all ;)

I'm just playing...

“[To poop] originally meant ‘to produce a short blast of sound,’”

Maybe OB just wanted us to hear a short blast of sound?

OB, you know I'm just taking the mickey out of you cause you haven't listened to 10/18/72 yet?
I dig all your input mang.

On a more musical note.. Get it?!?!

I don't think I noticed that patch in The Eleven on 2/27 before 7:54-8:49..
I wonder if that had something to do with them using the 1/26/69 version on Live Dead.
hmmm

You guys are funny.

The Fillmore West box is sorta of a white whale for me. On the fence with release announcement and when I finally went to pull the trigger it had sold out in previous 24 hrs. Not the last time I was slow on the draw but that was a tough one and years later when i started checking resellers it was a bit pricey. Do have the compilation. Someday.

So I'm going with Live Dead today and the Dark Star sounds glorious right now.

Onward!

I know y’all giving me shit, which is nice!
I think my suggestions are not being seen in the right light. Not trying to be negative...Think of it this way;
There’s over 2300 shows, I’d like to hear as many as possible, even if just once, vs listening to say, only the same 200 shows repeatedly. So more shows equals a positive, no? Especially looking for those weird little chestnuts that only a super squirrel finds 🐿
Also, it’s a fragile eco system. Been listening for over forty years already, hope to be able to do so for many more.
Variety is the spice of life!
Ok,enough of all that,
ONWARD!

EDIT: as your senator from the great deadnet state of altered consciousness I hereby propose an amendment to the cosmos hear-by declaring that henceforth the Elevan, should, and must be played on, well....11!

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Submitted by icecrmcnkd on Sat, 02/27/2021 - 10:44

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I also missed out on FW and the steamer trunk, although I did get the 72 AME.

Have FW 27 and 28 on vinyl. Both say Plangent Process. I don’t believe that the FW69 Box says Plangent, but I don’t have a physical copy to look at.
Can some check their Box to see if it says Plangent?
If it doesn’t then that suggests that FW69 has been remastered - Plangentized, Normanized, and vinylized.
27 and 28 sound really nice.
The question is, when will they release the 24/192 hi-def copies?
They could put it on BluRay audio like Led Zep did for Song Remains The Same.

No offense meant Oro, I don’t actually keep up with the picks every day, mostly just on weekends since I don’t listen to music at work. Sometimes do partial shows at night.

Well, it’s around 50 here, the snow is gone, and there’s 2 months of dog poop in the yard....
That's going to take like 45 minutes to clean up.

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Submitted by DeadVikes on Sat, 02/27/2021 - 11:34

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Conekid, no Plagent was not used on the Filmore box. The first box they worked on was Winterland 73.

Oroborous, yes, we are still not This Day in Grateful History. Shoot, we are coming up on the one year anniversary of The Pick of the Day. Let's keep it rolling!

Do you all remember what the first pick was?

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Submitted by The Good Ole G… on Sat, 02/27/2021 - 11:53

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I've got the POTD list ;)

Might've missed a day or two here and there when there wasn't a pick or it wasn't clear what the pick was.
But usually would jot down a notation.
For the most part it's complete.

VGuy... I wrote down 2/27/69 for today.

It's too epic not to give it the nod.

But.. that leaves room for more goodness, might have to do 2/27/81 later.

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Submitted by Oroborous on Sat, 02/27/2021 - 13:10

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None taken!
This ones for you and the job ahead
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mLNAkPsjAEk

EDIT: lol I thought we were doing 69 today? or am I a day late and a dollar short again!
Dbl Edit: yeah, nice work GOGD...we oughta call him scribe, or Radar O’reily

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Submitted by Oroborous on Sat, 02/27/2021 - 13:16

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Plangent or not, still sounds pretty good!
Haven’t heard these since some awesome person turned me on to copies s couple years ago...so good call, ...was due!

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Submitted by The Good Ole G… on Sat, 02/27/2021 - 13:23

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A man walks down the street
He says, "Why am I soft in the middle, now?

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Submitted by The Good Ole G… on Sat, 02/27/2021 - 15:40

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And Betty when you call me,
You can call me Al.

Yeah... listening to the Dead all day can make you a little soft in the middle.
But what a way to go.

Don't want to end up a cartoon
In a cartoon graveyard
Bonedigger, Bonedigger

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Submitted by DeadVikes on Sat, 02/27/2021 - 17:09

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God I love DeadHeads, I just wish there were more in my neighbor.

FW Box was a Multi Track release.

....tbh Proudfoot, I dabbled. Started with him circa 1980, then moved forward and backward. Got distracted with another band. Circling back.
Like most nuts, pistachios are healthy and good food.
Avocados are up there too.

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Submitted by Dennis on Sun, 02/28/2021 - 03:43

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God, I must be getting old. A good hit on Friday night at work, up all night, cloudy all Saturday, passed out early, up now.

Anyway,,, coming home from work Friday night fairly electric. Got billboard hits of 1973 playing and the Temps come on with Papa Was a Rolling Stone. (the 12 minute version) My Buick has a ok sound system so I cranked it up. What a great recording. Wonderful separation of sounds, the relentless cymbal. If you haven't heard in a while, pop that bad boy on,,, good headphones sound great,,, and crank it.

I always say Motown is like coke,,,,,, everybody likes coke,,,,,, and sara lee.

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Submitted by proudfoot on Sun, 02/28/2021 - 09:51

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The Zappaverse is vast. I like some of it, dislike some of it, ignore much of it.

If it didnt take, thats cool. His stuff is definitely not for everyone.

If you decide to try it again, i recommend WOIIFTMoney

Also, I happened upon a youtube video called Zappa 60s guitar solos yesterday. That stuff rocks

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Submitted by proudfoot on Sun, 02/28/2021 - 09:55

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Uhhhhhh....

I am on a "no GD for now" diet. So, I got nothing for POTD.

I was surprised yesterday by several facts. Biggest, Temps not the original band,,,, Undisputed Truth (yes, Smilin Faces), put out the first cut and when I scanned my collection I was shocked at the number of covers. And yes, there were maybe 3 from Mickey's band :-)

Another one of those songs the Dead should have done,,,,,, right after Ghost Riders in the Sky!

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Submitted by Vguy72 on Sun, 02/28/2021 - 15:08

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....is Mickey Harts Mystery Box CD. Or the last show from Anchorage.
Choose wisely.