Grateful Dead

Oroborous, I found exactly what you're describing to be what I hear on the 1973 PNW shows. The 1974 shows are fine; it's just 1973. Let me preface this by saying this is by no means any reason not to get the box set - it's an awesome triple dose of '73, Dark Star a la mode, plus the three 1974 shows that sound better than any 1974 show I've heard.

So what I hear on those 73 shows sounds like what you're describing. Unevenness. Artifacts. Loud symbols. Dropouts. Hiss. Certainly not throughout the entire three shows, but enough to get on the radar of someone who listens to shows with headphones most of the time. And the odd thing is that I don't think anyone else took this from the 1973 revordings on PNW.

I didn't catch this on Dave's Picks 38, except for the warm-up tune Bertha, which I'm good with, because it's the first song. I listen to Dave's Picks 38 about half a dozen times and then put it down for the last week. I'm putting it back on to see if I hear anything differently. Where are some places that you hear it in the show? Also I'm curious if Playing in the Band and Birdsong are doing it?

Edit - just listened to a few tracks from Pacific Northwest 73 in the car on the way to get some pizza and it's not nearly as noticeable on regular speakers. DaP 38 sounds better still on the couple of tracks I had time to compare a little bit of. Not that I want to hear anything bad on Dave's Picks 38, but I would be willing to take a listen to whatever tracks you're hearing things on.

Dave L walks into a bar, and has a seat at the front. “I’ll have a beer, bartender”
The bartender replies “What!? No 2021 Box Set!?”

Put down the fishing pole, DL, and release that Box!!

#38 sound is wobbly here and there

I just go with it....but it is uneven, fo' sho'

The Dead played at the Santa Clara County Fairgrounds, along with Big Brother and the Jefferson Airplane. The Dead played a great version of Alligator , hopefully they have a tape of this in the vault and will release it as part of a 1968 box set. My brothers friend went to this show.

In some places it’s noticeable enough most people should be able to tell with at least a moderate volume, and being top notch GOGD I’m sure many have cranked it lol. It’s prevalent enough I’m guessing you’d have noticed it even with just a casual listen. I only hope I don’t ruin this for others who haven’t heard it, but go looking for it and then can’t not hear it LOL.
But I’m thinking it has to be a small sample problem, though I find it hard to believe only 3 of us have had it?

EDIT: I hear ya 1st SHOW, and truth be told there are many shows I wouldn’t care so much, but these shows, though I don’t agree with best of year hyperbole, are so up my wheelhouse, and otherwise sound so good, that it just bums me out. But hey, just like most dead “worts and all” ; )
PS: love that if you don’t mind quote!

DBL EDIT: wonder if they used any compression/limiting on the original tape feed? If said device was not set well it might explain...it’s puzzling that they’d use such a tape? Perhaps they felt it the benefit out weighed the negative and figured most folks wouldn’t notice? Interesting what ever the case.

I recently got a new amp in my system and am hearing details like never before. You have covered all the sonic equipment possibilities thoroughly so I have to go with operator error on the original recording that could not be Normanized away. Maybe the sound quality is why this took so long to get released. It doesn't seem as bad on the 9/7 material. Worth putting up with for sure but it kind of spoils playing it really loud. The old church of the IDM. (It Don't Matter) From ancient Denver AM radio with Charley & Barney in the morning. They had their own religion: "If you don't mind, then it don't matter". The 9/7 second set is worth it with that amazing Eyes jam.
Cheers!

Wait, we are supposed to listen to these releases??

I just got my copy last week and have been able to listen to it once. I think it is a great release. Sound quality is not as good as say Dave's #21 or #5, but still good. I have a good old wired system in my basement that I am sure it is nothing like yours, but it is still good. Anyway, I will have to put this one again and try to see if I hear what you are talking about. Typically if there are issues with the recording I usually pick it up on the first listen. I didn't on this one. Is it perfect, no, but like I said I still think it sounds really good and the performance is stellar.

On one hand, most of the music on here (and Bonus) is awesome! Even the complicated new stuff is hot...
On the other hand, I can’t believe Angry Jack Straw, DCVMT, and I are the only ones having issues or hearing???, not even sure what the hell it is?.....
I’ve purposely held off on posting about this until I spent significant time on this first...
I’ve tried the actual discs in different players, server playing on several different systems,... same weird results?
Worst part is not being able to figure out what it is?...
The overall levels are not too hot, peaks set at -1 dB which is how I like it; no need to chance over saturation by going 0 db (that’s what a volume control is for...). So don’t think the mastering level is too hot...
My guess is something in processing/mastering? Perhaps a synchronicity issue between processors?
Perhaps some hard compression/limiting. I’ve noticed the phenomena/artifact on several instruments and vocals, usually only noticeable when that source is loud and/or with sharp attack...but it’s never like everything is distorting all at the same time which would lean towards some kind of overall level problem. It’s only on individual sources at mostly individual instances, though there times when more then one source distorts...
Don’t think it’s original tape over saturation because it would be highly unlikely that that would of gone unnoticed by recordist and wouldn’t have been so prevalent on so many different sources. Meaning you might have one guy who’s level is too hot because he turned up extra and the recordist didn’t catch it and adjust right away, but I’ve never heard a tape with basically, potentially, all the sources distorting like this.
It’s often very subtle, other times it’s not. Haven’t noticed it as much on the bonus disc. Seems to start a little as LIG picks up volume, only the louder parts of Stella, but from then on its more prevalent.
38 itself is pretty much riddled with these distortion artifacts.
Complicating things are other variables like Bob using some kind of distortion peddle, which I’ve never heard from him this early on? Kieth occasionally has some noisy stuff kick in/out? Cymbals often trigger it, but everything, including occasionally vocals too.
Agree with All that you can really hear and appreciate Bobs playing on all of this, in fact I liked the overall mix. I can see why this show was regarded by DL so highly, which makes this ?? all the more annoying.
Oh, and I don’t think it’s my gear as all my previous stuff still sounds the same, so it’s something going on with the production of this release.
Don’t know any of the specifics about plangent, but wouldn’t think that processing would alter volume peaks like this?
My guess is that perhaps there were signal to noise issues on the original tape, or inconsistent levels between instruments (one significantly loader than another), where some compression was used to bring the overall level up, which then caused certain, individual sources to occasionally, noticeably, distort due to hard compression, but that would usually be more quick, arrack only phenomena.
And you wouldn’t think that pros of this caliber, with the gear they have access to would do such a thing?
I’m just desperate to figure out what the hell is going on since it’s driving me nuts and ruining what would otherwise be a long term, go to release, maddening! It’s no secret I’m a fall/winter 73 nut, so this of all releases being almost unlistenable is Murphy on 11!
I’ve listened to this at least a dozen times already trying to just enjoy the awesome shows/music, but this phenomena keeps rearing its ugly head, uggggggg!
It really freaked me out the first virgin spin as I was really psyched for some killer fall 73 so prepped accordingly, including firing up the big boy system extra loud and putting on the ole proverbial seat belt. So when it started to become unmistakable it really freaked me out! Now it’s just an unfortunate, un-ignorable annoyance.
But mostly, this is deeply disappointing that such a great show, from one of the best eras is basically unlistenable.
This is so frustrating too, as I’m sure many of you are scratching your heads wondering what the hell im taliking about lol. But at least 2 others; Angry Jack, and DCVT have experienced the same thing, so it’s not just me.

The question then; is this a product defect, if so, is it comprehensive or just a small sample, and thus should we be asking for replacements?
I’m guessing unfortunately/fortunately it’s a small sample problem or this board would be filled with displeasure!
Possibly many folks listening on “normal” modest gear, at lower volumes, with normal ears might not notice much of it, but not everyone! I have to believe if this was a comprehensive problem more folks would be noticing it?
So fortunately it’s probably not a problem for most, and unfortunately, because it’s sometimes hard for just a few to get acknowledgment of such a unusual idiosyncrasy.
Ugggggg, my brain hurts from this release pulling me in two such diverse directions!
Luckily I have several hundred other shows to listen too ; )
Would love to hear if anyone else out there is experiencing this same problem?

Got my replacement Daves 38, big thanks to MaryE and Doc Rhino for taking care of me.....Have listened to it all three times and this is an AWESOME release. One of the best Birdsongs ever, can’t stop playing it. Great first version of WRS and Let it Grow. The bonus disc is fantastic, been listening to that eyes almost every night for the last week, killer version.
I agree with the calls foe a fall 72 box or the Ark.....please Dave😊

Fun story about the duck "calls". Never even noticed or heard about it. To me what is famous about the show is Bobby's intro to Jack-a-Roe. Very inventive and the kind of stuff Jerry was probably watching and listening closely to and would weave into the fills. Not sure I even caught the significance of it until Phil brought it up in the "Phil Zone" CD.
Latvala! And cheers!
EDIT: Listening to Fox Theatre Atlanta 5-18-77 now and blown away by The Other One > Brokedown. Source is a tape recorded in 1994 from the GD Hour radio show. David Gans must have been using DAT direct from the vault source as the sound is amazing for a TDK DS-X100 tape. (recorded in Dolby C, but I don't often use the Dolby on replay as it dulls the treble too much) Unfortunately David Gans was not allowed to offer whole shows back then as I recall.