Grateful Dead

Great discussion going here. I can't resist getting drawn in with my own 2 cents.

Caveat emptor - I am not an audio engineer or expert in such areas. I do listen to a lot of music and grateful dead shows.

My two cents is the audio "distortions" that we have commented on here are in the source recordings of Sept 8 1973.

Why do I think this?

- Dick talked about releasing this show in the 90s and Dave says it's one of his favorite 73 shows, and it was just now released 20 some years later. If you've followed Dave for any length of time, you know that he doesn't release shows with lesser audio quality unless he really has to. He's also too good of a salesman to come out and say "we didn't release this until now because the tape has some issues. Jeffrey worked on it again and says it's as good as it's gonna get, so we're releasing it because it's A Tremendous Show"...Right?

- Seems to me on any given night a recording of a grateful dead concert might not be perfect because those involved in making it were distracted - for any number of reasons.
In the grand scheme of things, it's seems to me much less likely that we would end up with as many really good recordings as we have. They stopped caring about recordings for a lot of the 80s and a lot of those tapes don't have good audio - compared to a Betty board.

- My experience with this release is that the recording of 9/8 sounds significantly different than 9/7.
9/8 was indeed jarring when I first put it on.

All that said, it really is a fantastic and unique show. I've been loving it. I listened to discs 2 and 3 at proper volume with some beverages last weekend and it knocked my socks off again.

Just can't resist a good mystery.

It sounds to me like your bass cabinets are not tall enough. A standing bass wave is 17 meters in height.. you need bigger speakers, stacks of them, preferably able to play in quadraphonic.. one 17 meter stack for each string of the bass guitar.

That is all. See my previous post on what measures to take to make this problem go away. Don't forget to destroy the credit card.

I remember once at a giant's stadium show, I meet this chick who offered me some mushroom tea and being new to this way of consuming shrooms, I sat in my car staring up at the ceiling and realizing I swigged too much. I then started to hear the show beginning but I waited it out till I could contain myself. I finally got out of the car feeling enough time had passed and realized that the music was only a boom box playing a dead tape next to my car. I felt like a total doorknob and never mentioned it to anyone till now.

Carlo,

Ha!

Man, we need a box announcement. How about tomorrow or today depending on your time zone. Let's get it out Thursday, May 20.

And stop yelling out songs we already played tonight.

Get a pair of the Dominator MX-10s. That will solve the problem.

Amazing look at all of the sonic ingredients of the 'stew' that is Dave's 38. With my old ears and modest sound system, even I heard the difference between 9/7 and 9/8 on first listen – thought at the time that 9/8 was 'oddly harsh' (my naive terminology). After reading your methodical and excellent analysis, I better understand why. Makes me more aware of all the miracles I take for granted that allow us to listen to 50-year-old Grateful Dead MUSIC as cleanly as is technically possible. I re-read all the chapters of your 'treatise' (without hearing aids this time 🤪), and have an even greater appreciation for the rabbits our archivist and remastering whiz continue to pull out of their hats multiple times each year. And thanks to everybody for all the great posts Uro inspired!

Looks like Dave's 38 is the exception that proves the rule (and even so it's still 4 CDs of killer Dead!). . . Well done Dave, Jeffrey. And especially well done Oroborous.

And speaking of Mickey's recording prowess, checkout his and Zakir's 'Sound Consciousness: Drones for Sonic Bathing': https://www.onecommune.com/sound-consciousness-mickey-hart-zakir-hussai…

that's some pretty funny $hit man. Sounds about right and I've definitely had similar warps of space and time.

When are we playing some Hilltop Disc Golf???
Course is open, fully vaxxed, it's time!
Shoot me a PM if there is interest.

Sixtus

Carlo drank both cups, apparently

I happened upon an old video from a certain pop band from the 70s

the two singers are sooooooo hot

- a wistful middle-aged man

Hi Oroborius, I meant that maybe Jeff Norman used something in the mastering of the tape to restrain any "sharp attacks" that existed on the master (good term BTW, I never heard it used before but I understood what you meant immediately). My understanding is when they recorded these things the night of the show, they were constantly making adjustments to the mix and levels throughout the show, so it's possible the master was a bit hot on places, and Norman tried to compensate? This could account for what you're describing in that one quote that I posted of yours from the other day. I forget exactly what you said but it just made me think that maybe this was the potential cause. Just a guess. I really don't hear what you're talking about, but I keep trying. I do hear some loud symbols now and then like somebody mentioned but nothing that is nearly as noticeable as the bass that was added to the Berkeley show. I don't hear anything abnormal except for the usual stuff and some occasional loud symbols.

Hi Uncle Sam, when you say there should be a better balance of all the people playing in the band and that you hope the people who master these ancient tapes do a better job next time, it makes me think you are not aware of the difference between two track and multi track recordings. Dave's Picks are all two track recordings, which means Jeff Norman (the "masterer") only has two tapes to work with. That means multiple instruments and vocals are recorded to each tape, so there is really no way to turn anyone up or down. The reason Weir and Garcia are the two loud ones on 9/8 is because that's the way the band was recorded the night of the show. With only two tapes with which to master this release, the only thing that can be turned up and down is the left or right speaker, but I don't I think any of us would be happy if they were uneven. It's really the person who recorded the show you have to approach with your comment. With multi track recordings every instrument gets its own reel of tape. If the show was recorded on a multi track recorder then the person who masters the tapes for release CAN make some people playing in the band louder than others. But all Dave's Picks and Dick Picks and Road Picks are all two track recordings so we get what we get as far as levels are concerned. If you want a list of multi track shows PM me and I will send.

You piqued my curiosity! I’m thinking maybe Heart, maybe the Bangles…? Inquiring minds wanna know !

Maybe ABBA? Those two were sweeties.

I love my wife dearly, but....oh my goodness...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFk6-Mn-8yg

SIXTUS: digging the new sign! Tee it up Bra! FOOOUUUUUURRRRRR! Do they yell that in disc golf?

ESTPRO: yaaaassssss, it seems to be the tapes. Like your synopsis! And it is about the mystery, though it bums me out that such a great show (s) dosent come from a better source : (
FALL 73 Baby!..., now if we could just get: 9/11, and (pick one 12,15 or 17, hey, don’t wanna be greedy!), 10/25, 10/30, and of course 12/18! So Jim and KF, how’s that tunnel coming?

JIM: 17 meters? Which note/string are you referring too E, A, D, or G, as the length will vary accordingly!
What c/c? 😉...the only problem is all the scaffolding. She’s used to all the audio cartons etc, but she’s getting a little wiggly about the scaffolding?

CARLO: dude you crack me up. Think most of us have been there one way or another, Ha! This isn’t the first time you’ve shared a similar fun story with us (fun now, perhaps not then lol) When the going gets weird....
Thanks for sharing!

AJS: Dominator MX 10?....weren’t those what Hasek got into? Heard it didn’t go so well and now he’s selling em outta the trunk of his car?

MR SMITH: harsh is actually a term used frequently in audio lingo. Killer Dead indeed!
Thanks for the cool Mickey link and as always the awesome scans!

PF/TM: yeah, inquiring, drug ravaged, senile, dirty old men wanna know!

DARK-STAR: glad your not hearing “it”; as it would damper your appreciation of such an otherwise stellar release!
Attack, Sustain, and Decay are fundamentals of ALL sounds. Attack you get, sustain is sorta how long the main body of the sound is, and decay is the “trail off”. These can all been different types or times/lengths...many pro audio devices can manipulate these. Garcia’s Mutron Envelope Filter is one example. Good Compressors will have these controls.
So there good very well be some of that, but I think unfortunately, overall it’s just not a very good source...
And yes that is the problem with 2 track tapes, so the mix it what it is, but hey, even a bad Dead tape is usually better then some DIY tinny, noisy, crowd cassette of 80s Hair band LOL. Or as my cousin Eecktar would say “a little bit o sumthin is better than all of nothing!” Really it kinda amazes me how much really good stuff there is considering all the ways that a tape can end up unlistenable!
I actually like the mix for the most part, cept Kieth being too low on occasion and the whole Bob thing?

DREADING: 6/24/73 Big RR Blues. I don’t hear a problem, though when the ride cymbal comes in from 2:13 until 3:08 (right speaker if your wired correct) it is prevalent and at first I thought perhaps he was using a sizzle ride ( the kind with the rivets? Loosely attached to give it a more sizzle sound than a normal ride cymbal), but I think it’s just the way it’s EQd/miced...I can see on certain gear it could sound too prominent...

LOL, yeah when I was little I used to wonder why I got this funny feeling when ever they were on lol.
Think those outfits could be any shorter?

ABBA! Of course! Completely slipped my mind, but after that video, I will not be so foolish again! Heart? Bangles? Good grief.

I had a work buddy who went to play semi-pro hockey for a few years in Sweden. Married a Swedish gal, and said it was THE BEST time of his life! As Motley Crüe said: Girls! Girls! Girls!

Oro: I still feel “funny” watching them!! ;)

Thanks for the memories, Proudfoot!

Nice Sabres reference.

I was actually referring to the ones being sold by Judge Reinhold in Ruthless People.

I was just making that up.. I tried to find the reference to Phil's stack size on the Wall of Sound, but failed..

I have come to the conclusion from reading all these posts back and forth.. that there are people here with WAY better sound systems than mine. I did find the topic both interesting and amusing.. how you put together than analysis of the sound for this show is impressive.. and you all got me to listen to the show(s) a few more times while it's fresh.. which is good.

Great thread actually.. some really enjoyable reads. and it got me thinking of that guy that re-designed and built a 1/6 scale WOS. I'm jealous.. by far the best man cave I know of. Of course I have not been to chez OuroB yet.. which I am sure is impressive.

Anyway.. many thanks folks.. some great reads which brings us on the brink of yet another, hopefully glorious weekend. Wishing the best to all you out there. Make the best of today and tomorrow.

I was just making that up.. I tried to find the reference to Phil's stack size on the Wall of Sound, but failed..

I have come to the conclusion from reading all these posts back and forth.. that there are people here with WAY better sound systems than mine. I did find the topic both interesting and amusing.. how you put together than analysis of the sound for this show is impressive.. and you all got me to listen to the show(s) a few more times while it's fresh.. which is good.

Great thread actually... and it got me thinking of that guy that re-designed and built a 1/6 scale WOS. I'm jealous.. by far the best man cave I know of. Of course I have not been to chez OuroB yet.. which I am sure is impressive.

Anyway.. many thanks folks.. some great reads which brings us on the brink of yet another, hopefully glorious weekend. Wishing the best to all you out there. Make the best of today and tomorrow.

This site is most excellent as Bill and Ted would say. I have been taking it all in and enjoying everybody's thoughts on the show. I also do not hear the issue, but I am going to look at the specific songs and times that you said Oroborous. What I find very amusing is that Bob Weir's loud guitar is at the root of the problem and Keithfan was saying how loud that model guitar is he's playing and that it is not his usual guitar choice (sorry I don't recall which one). I can hear how different Mr. Weir sounds here and would like to hear more like it.

I have been enjoying this Dave's Pick even more than last years 74 show from Jai-Alai, and that is my 2nd favorite 1974 show. Dave's Picks 13 is my favorite. I admit I am short on 74 shows, but am just saying I think the Grateful Dead had an extraordinary night amongst extraordinary nights. I like the two loud guitars it's a very different listening experience.

....but I have yet to listen on headphones. need to get on that.
Game 3 Vegas vs The Wild tonight. We don't have very good luck there, but the winds of change are coming.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WgbFp8QhXaw

Sorry all, but this is Toronto’s year to finally shake the curse, and win it all. Their domination starts tonight.

For AVS fans - a great team, but sorry you got stuck with our cast off Nazem Kadri. Something happens to this guy’s brain come playoff time, he always does something reckless (and dangerous), and it hurts the team. Cut him loose, you guys are better without him.

Enough hockey. Kinda Dead related, I was replaying the Bear’s Sonic Journal box for the NRPS. I have to say, Garcia’s pedal steel on the first few discs was pretty…ragged. By the fourth disc, things smooth out, and he has a handle on it. Regardless, he was a master musician, and could have given a complex stringed instrument like the sitar a run for the roses if he put his mind to it.

that most aren’t hearing it!

Ruthless People, classic! They make us watch that in AV school

JIM: I’m just teasing, I know the length varies with frequency, but I’d have to look it up lol. I knew where you were coming from.

GO LEAFS! if the AVs crash & burn I’m going with the Leafs! or who ever is left Canadaland!
Your a funny guy, I’d imagine you, icecrmcnkid and me could get up in some trouble in some border town or at the Canadian ballet!
“Enough hockey”, blasphemy! And coming from a Canadian no less! Isn’t that agaaaiinnst the law up there ; )
Yeah, Kadri doesn’t give me that warm fuzzy feeling...
Swedish Ladies: my best Buddy’s mom growing up was from Sweden. After his folks split up she went back for a few years. My buddy stayed there with her for a year or so and it changed his life. Guy never had a date in his life, over there he’s got multiple girl friends etc...sends me card says “don’t get married until you’ve been to Sweden”

Glad to hear you may come to the dark side, and root for the Leafs. I don’t think the AVS will crash & burn, the team is well coached, great skill. Vegas is my dark horse for the final. Boston is a team we love to hate, so hoping we meet them, too.

My work friend that lived in Sweden said while living there, he almost needed a neck brace from the whiplash from your head spinning. These gals weren’t Aunt Bea from Mayberry, and he said the ones he met were fun, always up for camping, hiking, canoodling, anything physical and fun. I met his wife he brought home - a dish, so I know it wasn’t a fishing story.

If ever this Kung Flu nonsense ends, we always love having our American kin visit. That dynamic is what made The Band so special!

Your Knights put on quite the comeback tonight. Well done.

They look like the Leafs out there. Wait, never mind.

I was looking through one of my favorite BT sites looking for some new Miller remasters...anyway, as I was looking through some comment pages it was mentioned how one recorded mix of a certain show had Weir front and certain very loudly with everyone else far down in the mix...all the comments were along the lines of how interesting to listen too and that one listen was enough...of course I didn't bookmark the page and can't remember what and where it was....

I think they owe us and should add some hockey GD themed undertone to some cover art between now and whenever.

Edit: Or is that what Dave's 13 was all about. The oft maligned DaP13 cover art...

....breaking out the headsets.
Playoff hockey is tight!!
Avatar switched accordingly.
You guys and gals know me.

Steal Your Face-Off

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6XqakH3D030. 39 years ago today, I was at the Greek Theatre for the start of another great run with the Grateful Dead. I hope they release a Greek Box set this year, and if they do I hope they release all the shows, not just some of them.

that would have been a sweet run to be at

my friend who turned me on to the GD attended...I think. Maybe it was the next year.

anyway...Greek me, Dave.

I am still not a robot.

"we are the robots" - Kraftwerk

1974
1977
1982

One of my favorite shows of all time. That moment when there is no doubt they're gonna play UJB. We all went nuts. It's a very short show but pretty incredible.

Domo arigato Mr. Roboto

I love the face-off line!

Two jumper cables walk into a bar. One of them says “We’d like a couple of beers, please.”
The bartender says “Okay, but don’t start anything.”

It’s a long weekend north of the 49th this weekend (Victoria Day, or known better as “May 2-4 weekend”, as everyone grabs a 24 case of beer and heads to the country). Enjoy your weekend, all!

But what about the Hort’s eh?

VGUY, sweet shirt!

:)))

I was going through the Attics of My Life that I have, after being inspired by the 5/15/70 Fillmore East Road Trips. Not many. But there is a fine performance with great audio from the June 6, 1970 show, which was a Bonus Track on the American Beauty re-release several years ago. The audio is so good I thought, why not release this show? Anything from 1970 that starts with Morning Dew, ends with Uncle John's Band, and has Attics of My Life in the middle is a winner in my book. And considering the latest release we have from 1970 is 5/15 (due to Bear's incarceration), why not? Fill in extra space with food Bonus Tracks from the era. The setlist:

Morning Dew, Me and My Uncle, Casey Jones, Dancing in the Street, Next Time You See Me, China Cat Sunflower, I Know You Rider, Good Lovin', Attics of My Life, Dire Wolf, Alligator, Turn on Your Love Light, Not Fade Away, Uncle John's Band

And there's a good chance Dancin' features a Tighten Up.

I'm going to dig this up on archive.org and hope the audio is nearly as good as the Attics official release. Anyone have the scoop on the show?

KeithFan indeed, this one has been on the radar; pretty sure the >Jam coming out of drums/Alligator made it onto a Sixtus' Picks from back in the day (it was a later Volume, a Late Discovery). It has a touch of that 'Darkness' jam that popped up a few times, toward the end. I went on a mad 1970 binge a few years back and uncovered a bunch of gems, previously unknown to me, the 6/6 show included.

This Pirates World show is also one that comes to mind as some solid Seventy:
https://archive.org/details/gd70-03-24.sbd.miller.32054.sbeok.flacf

(BTW, I was initially intrigued by the Pirates World show, if for no other reason than it taking place at....Pirates World? I did some internet dumpster diving and found some fun facts along the way)

Another unearthed was this one from later in June 1970 from the late electric show on 6/24; while an audience recording, I find it to be incredibly powerful, feeling like its from right off the balcony looking down. There is some ferocious playing here out of the gate (I mean a RIPPING Not Fade Away with a sickeningly subtle and utterly smooth transition into Easy Wind? C'mon) and also note the Attics intertwined with a protoplasmic Sugar Magnolia embedded within a Dark Star journey: https://archive.org/details/gd1970-06-24.late.aud.harlan.9330.sbefail.s…

A final find was this (more Attics and lots other else):
https://archive.org/details/gd70-12-27.sbd.miller.23530.sbeok.shnf

1970 has some seriously good $hit.

Be Well People!
Sixtus

P.S. Oro yes FOUR! Indeed. A flying disc to the noggin is bad; hurty, some may say.
Had the sign idea in my head (we indeed live at a dead end on a hilltop) and drew a picture of my vision for a friend who lives in Colorado and has what I think is a 3-D printer/saw type thingee. He digitally scanned/sawed the image onto 4 blocks then put them all together, painted it. Voila. It went in the ground yesterday!
And He is The Man.

I am really looking forward to these shows. I have the 6/24 Dark Star medley show, but the recording is a very bad audience recording. So bad I titled it "Bear Ain't There". That was a while back so I'm sure this will be a nice audio upgrade. And of course the 6/6 show is the one I'm looking for, thank you. I don't have 12/27 so this is going to be a real treat. Jimbo, I'm taking the Wayback machine to 1970. Hope you weren't planning to use it this weekend.

My first visit to the Greek for a weekend series of shows...it was a great great time...I was in line very early Friday morning and had a blast with friends old and new waiting in line...about 20 minutes before the gates opened a person from event security told me i would have to check in my backpack around the side of the venue...I told him I had been in line all day and didn't want to lose my place in line...he walked me through the gate to the side where I checked in my pack in a large Ryder truck, my check stub was like 00001...Since he had seen my ticket he let me go into the seating area as the gates opened and the mad dash began...I had about a three minute head start and made my way to the first step riser above the pit, dead center...I spread out my blanket and waited for friends to help me fill out the space I had grabbed...as the place filled and the energy of the crowd rose and rose I knew I was home...It was a short but oh so swell 2nd Set...for me the highlight was the sweet fluttering down from space into The Wheel, so fine...the whole weekend was a blast...the only other time I hit the Greek was when I drove an equipment truck for Los Lobos who did a Cinco de Mayo weekend show there along with some other fine East Bay groups...a friend laid tickets on the crew for a Jerry show that night in Berkeley so all and all a fine Cinco...another thing about the show on the 21st....as the crowd was filling up the Greek a gentleman walked by me and stopped...he looked back at me and walked over and introduced himself...he then asked if I had been at the UCSB '74 Wall of Sound show...I said yes and then he asked if I had been sitting stretched out on a foldable garden lounge chair...I laffed and said Yup that was me...he said he had kept looking over at me thinking Man that guy looks comfortable...I told him I had been very comfortable...we laffed again and he went on his way...the things that happen at a Dead show...

Suck

The very next show after my first. ...but I don't believe I have listened to this yet.

On my radar now, maybe tomorrow?

Since we live the next town over from each other, i can see playing disk golf since it looks fun. I will have to psyche myself into hanging out since I am a very shy dude. Thanks for the invite. Beer and montecristo cigars and disk golf seem to go good together.

Hey guys, check this out. Some dude mashed up Fists of Fury with parts of Live/Dead on Vimeo. Somehow it warranted an article in SFgate online.

Bruce is tossing around more than eleven during its namesake tune.

https://www.sfgate.com/streaming/article/grateful-dead-live-bruce-lee-f…

...this years “meet Up At The Movies” 2021
Grateful Dead Professionally Filmed & Recorded Performance which will be presented in “3D”Format in select Theaters Across the World!
“Holy Toledo Batman!” More info coming soon !
Directed/produced by Justin, The son of the Grateful Dead drummer, Billy K. ;)

I was this many (holding up 1 hand and extending several phalanges). :-)

3 down....

Nappy, cool story, thanks for sharing! Can you find yourself in the picture?
https://www.reddit.com/r/gratefuldead/comments/9q39g0/photo_of_the_day_…
Cool you got to hang with LL!
Everyone’s been praising this one so we’ll have to check it out...

So bummed I didn’t get to the Greek, Frost, or Ventura. (Did get to Ventura doing merch on Furthur fest. The whole time I was thinking how sweet it must of been to spend a weekend there with the Dead). Some of those outdoor SoCal venues must of been fun too!

Go for it Carlo, “don’t think about it just do it” (name that quote?)
Sixtus seems like a pretty nice guy, I bet you guys would have a blast.
If KF wasn’t already using Jim’s way back machine, I’d join ya!

If okay with Jim it's all yours Oroborous. I covered DP29 and DP3.

Sixtus that Jam out of Alligator on 6/6 is one for the "greatest Jams" folder.