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    marye
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    Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

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  • JimInMD
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    More on GD/Amps/US Navy

    I was close... if you google it you will get an answer pretty quick. Here is a quick quote from my first google land.

    Rosie McGee was cracking up at her desk when Dennis "Wiz" Leonard walked in from lunch.

    "What's the story?" Wiz asked McGee, then a receptionist and bookkeeper at Alembic, a California-based custom electric guitar, bass, and pre-amp company where Wiz worked as an audio engineer.

    "Well, the Department of Defense just called me," she told him. "They were asking if we could defer the purchase of our next four 3500s, so they could get four."

    Those amps were in high demand at Alembic. The 3500s, in particular, would be used in the Wall of Sound's vocal array tweeters, drum tweeters, and for Jerry Garcia's guitars. But was it just Alembic buying them up? A rumor was going around—a "urban myth," Wiz told me—that the US military was using Mac 3500s for sonar, specifically to listen for Soviet submarines.

  • Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Passing the Test

    Isn't the goal here to be lighthearted? I try my best to not let the craziness of the world/media not get to me here? Isn't the goal here to be a kind prankster? They ask, "Are you kind?" Most of the flamers I look like as children, either actual age or not. Many are so deep in social media and issues that result thereof, they cannot see what it is doing to them. They are being handled, manipulated, and unwittingly abused by the profiteers. I try to stay away.

    Jim, had no idea of the McIntosh amp issues. Thanks for that piece of info. As much as I love the music, it is just how they were. So real and fun which someone wrote, "creating their own iconography." The richness of their traditions and internal musical dialog that we love is an unending source of comfort as they lived it everyday for 30 years. I wish I had a shot at hearing even 50% of their music, but as I have written before, my OCD makes me wear out a great jam over and over instead of looking for the next one. Need to work on that for sure.

    So Jim and Oro and many others, thanks for passing the test.

    G

  • JimInMD
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    GFar

    You are kind soul.. I appreciate all you provide here. Same goes to Oro. I think it would take a face to face to catch me up on all the technology (old or new) that the two of you bring for me to truly understand. As for old.. and I am sure you both know.. in either late 73 or early 74 (I think 73).. the GD got into a scuffle with DOD over equipment they were ordering that was desperately needed for national security. Apparently, the Macintosh amps they were buying in unprecedented numbers were needed both in general and more specifically by special, top secret subs that needed the clean sound and amplification to either detect enemy interference or better hear and make stealth the noise they were making. So they called the GD and tried to work out a way to either stall, postpone or barter a purchasing arrangement that would not jeopardize national security.

    I think this is well known, and I apologize in advance for going on memory and surely confusing some of the information listed above as fact. ..but what is written is pretty close, if someone can clarify and correct it would not offend me in the least.

    Hope I didn't write anything that was incorrect or in any way interpreted as insulting or offensive.

    As for chainsaws and sawzaws to clear way for our living room WOS.. what could possibly be more fun.

  • Gary Farseer
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    Sawzaw

    Ah the sounds of my earliest fun dentist. "You dont need no gas!"

    All my stereo stuff is old, always fussy. Running all old Yamaha into JBL (plus svs). Trying to get stuff cleaned and parts replaced. When it is on, it is quite the stereo indeed. I have an old yamaha eq that I hooked up when Dave's first show was released. Goes into Pre amp, then to a yamaha mx-830. The MX-830 is powering 4 jbl g300's and 2 jbl LX 600's. Running 6 speakers means the amp is running at 550 watts at 2 ohms. It cooks. The speakers all have same tweeters and mid ranges. The 300s run 8" woofers and the 600s have 10 inch woofers. It is old but as you say "in budget." Smile.

    edit:
    Then the svs has a 550 watt continous, 850 watt peak sledge. The svs I picked up a few years back for $399. I had to have a sub with an internal crossover. So out of preamp to svs (rca cables), then back into the preamp, then to amp. Having old yamaha means older connection points. Modern amps control the crossover themself and pump sub out already crossed over. I happen to run my internal sub amp at a cutoff of 82 hz. George Lucas uses 80 hz crossover in his THX sound systems. So I am slightly above that. I did some sampling of the room using the preamp features.

    G

  • JimInMD
    Joined:
    Do you have any '74 Dijon?

    Neanderthal's use chain saws.. a sophisticated audiophile attacks their living rooms delicately with a sawzaw.

    I'm totally jealous.. I am blasting with my 20 year old Denon, similar age speakers with no intents on upgrading anytime soon. Budgets be budgets..

  • Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Yeah

    Can you imagine writing the real equipment book? With the constant upgrading of the system, that book would be multiple enormous volumes. Hope the Meyers have logged a lot of their research.

    No 18's here. Of course not needed.

    Back last year, Oro, you asked if I was running multiple subs. I am not. I have a 12" SVS Systems sub with built in Sledge D amp. It is like the rabbit, it is a thumper. Goes down to 13 or 15hz, so below the 20hz of human hearing. That is, if all memories about frequency response are still good. Starting to get the old enough to question my own thoughts at times.

    I am still hoping for the day when we can listen to WoS through a system that takes us to the "Fare the Well" P.A.. Would have to be software based, but I look at it like 4K upcoding an HDTV signal.

    Wow, FTW PA is now 7 years ago. Bet the Meyers' have gone way beyond that. I almost applied for a job at Meyer 7 years ago. Was in my career field. POTHead.

    That 2015 system had multiple flying 18's. It also had a load balancing system. This was done by having 2 systems, intake and outake. That is, they had 100 microphones throughout the stadium to push into the analytics software. Of course, the output systems was not connected except thru analytics, to the input system to avoid feedback. Brilliant. The analytic input system could then be used to balance the PA by section of the of the stadium.

    Sorry for interruption but I wanted find the article on pro sound web about 2015 FTW PA.

    I did actually find it, but not by searching pro sound web, but by searching internet at large and it found it on the pro sound web site, even though pro sound web could not find it in its own search.

    Let me know, maybe I can send lynk thru PM here, not sure if they cut that off.

    Any way need to do a little work after lunch. I mean a little work.

    G

  • Oroborous
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    Ha

    That’s what chain saws are for!

    Gary, I think besides trying to keep up with Garcia, Phil was using that big system on stage to help fill in those near field areas (up front etc) we were discussing, the areas that didn’t get proper coverage from the PA?
    What some refer to as the Phil Zone, though to me that’s was where both his stage sound and the PA sound merged and acoustically coupled.
    But yeah, My spine tingles and can still feel rather than hear those sub frequencies in my DNA. (By sub I mean below the threshold of hearing, not a subwoofer). Those Meyers 18”s in the PA were ridiculous in the right spot, in the right venue etc.
    Plus, it’s the Grateful Fucking Dead so why not go big!

    PS, that Grateful Dead gear book is great, though a little dialed down.

  • JimInMD
    Joined:
    I want what Phil's having...

    Home version. 18"'s and 4"'s. If I move some things around, they should fit.

  • Gary Farseer
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    Oro

    thanks for the write-up, input. Need a little time to read again and ponder. Think again we are speaking the same language but as 90% of communication is non verbal, some times the written language let's us down.

    It seems I have the dead's equipment book, need to track that down. Not necessarily for this discussion but just to find it again...

    Should have figured Phil would use Meyer systems. Using 18's onstage, wow!

    Hope all well your way!

    G

  • Oroborous
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    Phil’s Rig

    As of late 82 or early 83 Phil was using 4 Meyers cabinets: (4 -18”, 4 -15”), 2 per cabinet powered by custom PIE amps, until they started not using speakers on stage in 92. (Which I didn’t like).

    Not sure I get all what your saying? I agree that Soundboards do not sound natural for many reasons.
    Perhaps your referring to the phenomena of Microphones not having frequency response to accurately record bass waves combing sub sonic frequencies at those kind of SPL levels?
    Mic location can also make a big difference and was partly why Dan started the tapers section. Unless you have the right knowledge and equipment chances are a recording made too close will mot sound good.
    Plus you have the physics: the lower the frequency, the longer the sound wave. If your too close you’ll not hear the fully formed bass note etc.
    In fact if your too close much of the PA sound will blow right by you. You’ll also not properly experience stereo imaging. That’s why usually, the sound board or just before it was THE place to be. It was a trade off going up front: yeah you were up close and could see and hear their stage sound, but the PA mix was so above and beyond you that you missed a lot of info. Eventually they added little Meyers boxes, usually sitting on the front of the stage to add some vocals etc for those up close.
    Nothing comes for free! Personally, like Bear, I didn’t like the stereo set up because of this. Unless you were in the right spot, you missed a lot of info, especially if you were sitting on the side!
    This was the main reason Reserved seating sucked: nobody could sit where they wanted so if you were a sound nut like us, you often had to endure less than perfect sound/mixes.

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Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.
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In reply to by Dennis

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I guess I am the opposite. If I eat enough.. by the time I come down you can list the house as new. I get into details like that..

Stated another way, nobody likes housework, but if you have to do it.. it numbs the pain quite nicely. ...and it had to get done.

Dennis.. at the very least hit up the Let It Grow, and the second set. A fun show that I had never heard before. Also, I will shoot you some pictures tonight when I get back..

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Nice, but my vote for GREATEST LET IT GROW goes to 12/31/85, the NYE show, that Let it Grow is a monster. Jerry is on fire seems uncontainable. Bobby rhythms are front and center in my copy,,,, Brent's keys are anything but "plinky" to me and the drummers sound like they've taken a blackjack to the skins. GREATEST 4 Sure!!

But 83,,,, great year. A couple of weeks b4 at the Meadowlands (4/16/83) has the greatest LL Rain at about the 7 minute mark Jerry is on fire, I don't think he could squeeze anymore notes into a measure. Bobby vocals are right there. My fave!!!!

On the subject of Let it Grow since you are the canoe man,,,,, sorry kayaking man,,,, I always visualize Let it Grow as a great example of moving from running the rapids (at incredible speeds) and spilling into mirror smooth water. Do you find Let it Grow a great kayak song?

I will definitely check that one out.

Yes.. I have definitely listened to hot LIG's when hitting the harder stuff. Sometimes music helps me get into a groove, into the flow and helps with timing and muscle memory. ..but pick the wrong music and it can work against you. No more scary dark stars on really difficult stuff with consequences.. bad trip music can manifest itself into upside-downness in a hurry. Which is bad.

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In reply to by JimInMD

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Jim, I am a day late but I am going back to Dave's #35, 4/20/84. This show continues to get better to my ears after each listen, so I am looking forward to it.

Funny how I don't come 'round here no more. I'm a binge drinker personality, I suppose.

JimInMD:
I'm in for 12/31/85. One I've had on cassette for years. Unfortunately Let It Grow did not leave such an indelible mark on my memory... or well, never mind... Definitely looking forward to revisiting it based on Dennis' assessment. Interesting how things can just pass you by sometimes. My main memory of 12/31/85 is Ken Kesey on the FM, or wherever it was that my copy was dubbed from. Man, to me, this show is all about that Kesey intro. Gold.

DeadVikes:
I go back to the 4/20/85 show a lot, too. I'd never heard it until it came up as pick of the day earlier this year, but that was definitely a find for me. Thanks, everyone!

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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that Baltimore show from March '73 is super fantastic cool. release it dave.

that Shakedown opener from 4/26/83 is top shelf.

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12/31/85

Thanks for giving me an excuse to break out this old familiar that hasn't had a listen in a while.

Out of the gate like a rocket with Touch ...just a touch too fast.

Everybody takes a deep breath and, somewhat ironically, they take Tons of Steel at a much more sensible pace. Sounds like Brent's playing a DX-7. Bobby seems to give a little off-mic HAA! just before the guitar solo.

CC Rider keeps it on a slow boil until Brent stokes the flames with his B3 during the second round of solos. I love the guy to death, but I've never really been able to buy Bobby as a blues man, despite his apprenticeship to Pig, but this thing is really escalates into a resounding climax. Hot stuff.

Dupree's is a cool song to have back, but they probably should have thought about doing it in a different key 'cause it's totally out of Jerry's vocal range at this point.

Cassidy. Love this tune. Feels more like a Brent lead vocal as Bobby is almost rapping it, while Brent carries the melody. Jam feels good with the drummers going off as usual, but it feels more like a warm up, seeming to end rather quickly.

Brown Eyed Women, man, this is like all time hall-of-fame level piece of songwriting and it's criminal that this isn't well-known outside of Dead circles. I love the "drink down a bottle and you're ready to kill" line, but "the bottle was dusty but the liquor was clean"? just sheer brilliance. One vivid image after another.

Not sure if the rhythm section listened to Bobby's admonitions about getting too busy before Let It Grow. It's all full of 16s and marching rudiments. Phil's takin' it kinda easy, but it's hard to say if he should really be lumped in with the rhythm section. Jer tears into that first solo. You can really hear the trumpet influenced lines he's playing even without the MIDI. The interplay between Jerry and Bobby during the full-on jam is such a web of strings and inversions, they're blending into a two headed, 12 stringed southwestern psychedelic beast. Behind them the percussionists flow like a gurgling stream with Bent's synth weaving in and out of their groove. They just fall into the return melody without ever actually going into full unison, but rising toward it like sunshine into the cool desert air.

Ahhh, the Father Guido Sarducci and Ken Kesey countdown. I don't know how many time's I've heard this, but it still cracks me up to this day. "It's a representation of the U.S.S. Miramack!" "It's an enormous Perry Como!" "It's Rasputin, FDR, and Eric Clapton!" "That's not Eric Clapton." Poor Guido. "I'm outa here" lol.

I love Bobby's little Blues Brothers shtick during Midnight Hour, and he sounds genuinely hurt when Phil later welcomes the home audience when he's just done it twice!

I let Sugaree and Man Smart Woman Smarter go by as I was typing, but basically more good stuff

Ship of Fools seems like a tune that just doesn't get enough plays.

Compact Playin'. They seem to be stacking the set, but at the same time also keeping an eye on the clock for the broadcast, or something. The second of two hot Bobby jams that we just get a taste of. Was that a hint of guitar synth?

Certainly not complaining about this Terrapin getting plenty of room. They nail it. A nice, long drums/space jam follows on.

Bobby's in a talky mood, making rare comment about the ragged Truckin'.

Black Peter has a relatively brisk shuffle going on. I like this one best as a dirge, but they've got a lotta NFA and Throwin' Stones ahead of them, I guess. Nice interplay between Brent and Bobby's vocals. At some points it the two songs become pretty much indistinguishable.

My tape has Mississippi Half Step, and the "We want Phil" "You can't have him" Tom Thumb from 6/29/86 Alpine Valley as filler, and then Box of Rain from RFK 7/7/86 as filler. Talk about a couple of infamous heat wave gigs. These selections reveal nothing of the apparent travails.

"If you're looking to get silly, you came to the right place!" Indeed.

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In reply to by bluecrow

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Gave 12/31/85 a whirl while working yesterday. Unfortunately got a call during LIG, so I’ll need to hit that again.
Hell, really need to do the whole thing again...wasn’t this one on pay for view BITD?

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In reply to by Dennis

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After actually looking at 12/31/85, my tape is clearly labelled "FM", but that doesn't necessarily mean it's labelled correctly. ;) Bobby (and Phil) shout out to both the radio and TV audience at various times during the show, so it might have been PPV, or just on Bay Area public access maybe. lol.

Anybody up for 5/3/72 next? Did we already already do this last month while I wasn't paying attention?

Just got my Olympia Theater Record Store Day vinyl. Despite this being the Donna tripping under the piano show, I'm gonna get my exercise tonight gettin' up and down to flip the record. smh. lol. What can I say? I'm a vinyl junkie. Didn't even hafta order it from overseas. Wish I could post pics. It's a thing a beauty. The Euro72 box being made of unobtanium, this'll hafta do.

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Start with white walls , in a room not the tires. Eat 500 micrograms of LSD. It really works swell .
It also brings out the 3D.
This is strictly a joke. Micro-dosing is a buzz phrase for a reason.

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In reply to by bluecrow

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like my earth paints - Morrison, Chinle, Kayenta, Moenkopi

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In reply to by icecrmcnkd

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My last several posts on the DaP38 page have been blocked because I tried to post a ‘connection’ (the ‘L’ word has been banned) to the list of returned reels.

Then I come here and there are still posts that can be called that greasy red meat in a can from Hormel (I suspect that the actual word has also been banned).

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In reply to by bluecrow

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Still need to rehit 12/31/85. Think this is the year my buddy had a PPV party and we brought my big stereo over to his house so had like three or four rooms with TVs and some kind of sound going, with different vibes in different rooms.
Of course we hung out in the serious room, with the big system and full immersion lol, FREAKS!
Or was it 84?

Did hit up DaP 37 again, man I really dig that one. Really need to hear more of that spring tour...
Hit DaP 38 bonus disc on Wednesday. Played/enjoyed the actual disc and didn’t turn it up too much so not as distracted by the distortion noise...

Might try to read today so maybe no tunes : (
Jon Evison, my favorite “newer” author, and a cool dude (have had the pleasure of hanging with him a couple times), has a new book out: Legends of the North Cascades. New books by favorite authors is perhaps as good as new Dead releases!

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In reply to by bluecrow

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I bought my last tickets for my last Grateful Dead concerts (Salt Lake City , February 1995) from school teachers from Tuba City. Blue Crow, I know all those places you mentioned intimately. And Morrison must mean Red Rocks. Saw the Dead there six times, 1984 and 1985. We’ve probably crossed trails many times.
And I used to think spam was just a canned meat product.
I do love Canned Heat though. Alan (Blind Owl) Wilson, Bob (the Bear) Hite, Larry (the mole) Taylor, Henry Vestine, Harvey Mandel, and “Fito” de la Parra.
They were NOT just another band from L.A.

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In reply to by Strider 808808

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Strider - all towns i know and all share a name with a geological formation - some of the towns are type localities for the geology and some are not exactly so it seems. all have clays that can made into paint (or so i believe at least as to Moenkopi - we thought some nice pale yellow clay was from that formation.) And all beautiful as "painted earth" as exposed on the surface here and there in the west. There's the Painted Desert and a whole lot more painted desert. I had forgotten that the Morrison Formation, which locally is exposed just north of here (and big deal in terms of local geology and archaeology, a lithic and clay source) was named for Morrison, CO, all the way over on the front range and aka the home of Red Rocks! Saw the'87 shows there. You landed in the SW earlier than I but no doubt our paths have crossed. almost 25 in UT and work has had me spend a lot of time down in NM the last 10 years.
Fruit and nut update. All the peaches dropped, which was really sad especially since I thought it would be a bumper crop. guessing because we had some unusually cold mornings in mid-May, right at freezing and really late for those temps in spring. Funny thing though - I do have some apricots (just ripening now) and almonds (not quite yet), both of which bloom before peaches and are more susceptible to cold!! So yes some almonds, bro, this year. Ate a few raw the last time, good, and left the rest for my brothers the scrub jays. They loved them. They would pick out the nut, fly it to a nearby russian olive, and peck it open to get the seed. Stay cool down there.

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Two weeks ago the low temperature at dawn was 47 degrees, the high by early afternoon was 100 degrees. We only get 50 degree plus temperature changes in the same day a few days a year.
Something about red sandstone is really pleasing to the eyes. And soul. If you’re ever in Gallup area I designed, engineered and helped build the trail to the top of Pyramid Rock in Red Rock Park. The Garcia guitar metal sculpture “Rosebud” is also a must see.
Link Wray was from the Shawnee Tribe. If we don’t have to read about “whatever’s” OK.

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In reply to by Strider 808808

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that's your work? very very cool. hiked it a couple of times (Dec. 2012?) when i was spending part of each week in Gallup monitoring some of the water pipeline construction around town. normally I was 4 on and 3 off and back home but for some schedule reason had a day or 2, or maybe just part of days off and had to still be in Gallup and that's what came up as a nearby place to hike. i remember being surprised by an historic Navajo sweat that was literally just off trail, sort of hiding in plain sight. also wandered some of the foot paths that branched off from the main trail. at some point along the base of the whole thing poking around looking for rock art. there was some cool and unusual historic stuff there tucked back in shadowed rincons. maybe you saw "nice butt cutie"?

those 50 degree temperature swings are always something. lately we haven't been cooling off much, just hot. this morning was first below 70 in at least a week, but a couple weeks ago when this round first started the last truly cool morning I was amazed to see that it was 48 degrees soon to be at or near triple digits, maybe the same day as down there? seems that those big swings often show up in late August / early September as reminder that yes fall is coming.

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In reply to by bluecrow

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that its the solstice got me thinking about a pair of shows that were a whole lot of fun and fell just days after.

6/23/90 and 6/24/90, Autzen Stadium, Eugene. My first shows in the NW. Little Feat opened both days. Huge 2nd sets each day. Peak excellence.

Bluecrow, 6/23/90, okay, sounds like we have a pick for today. Thanks!

Just finishing up Dave's 34. Very relaxing listen to this gem again. Love that Jam out of Seastones, Ship a Fools, Big River and the Black Peter!

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DV - a gem indeed!! Been spinning Disc 3 in the ride last few days. that Spanish Jam may be my favorite and I love the US Blues that comes flying out of it.

Have fun in Eugene!

Hmmm, sounds good. Coming from ole BC I bet I’ll like it

This is such BULLSHIT, can’t even use an exclamation point?

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In reply to by Oroborous

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Nice smooth, sorta laid back west coaster, nice for a lazy afternoon!

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The film is so amazing, don’t miss it. Looks like the band and the few people there just couldn’t
“Stay off the Grass” that night. Private parties don’t get any better.

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In reply to by Strider 808808

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One of my favorite movie nights.. I don't believe the band owns or has possession of the film.. so there is some conflict on ever getting this released. Still, it's there.. big and beautiful. ..and really well recorded and I am guessing they have these master reels in the vault by now....

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In reply to by JimInMD

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thanks for seconding Doc's rec yesterday. that movie is something else. just a little gig in the back yard.

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Both film and complete audio were nothing less than extraordinary. “Keep off the grass” must have been countered with “Ignore Alien Orders”. One catchy phrase deserves another.

Yea.. we can't post goofy crap anymore. Like in-depth analysis of everybody's favorite fun show Lancelot Linq, Secret Chimp.

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In reply to by JimInMD

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Not true, there are a bunch on this page.
Must be grandfathered in.

dead net

forum

dead-related-sites

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Been on the road and out of touch, so how about a little "Two From The Vault" for tomorrow? Unless it's been done, of course.

Assume everyone has received the box set email by now.

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I got it this morning! Wow,what a cool box set, completely unexpected!

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In reply to by billy the kid

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....Boreal Ridge Box. Offered in soundboard, audience and matrix versions!
Just what the doctor ordered.
No vinyl option though. Boooooo.

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In reply to by icecrmcnkd

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Good show Bluecrow. Finished it up today. Recording is pretty good. Funny how they don't sound as polished as they did in March and April, but that was the story of the Dead. Nice Eyes to open the second set. Crazy fingers is a little clunky. Sweet Morning Dew. Solid show.
Okay, two from the vault for tomorrow it sounds like. 😀

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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my box set email said i'd been randomly selected to try the concept of a build your own box set with a limit of 12 shows!! cherry picked some from Fall '72 and Fall '73, grabbed that Baltimore from March '73, Des Moines from May, the Roosevelt Stadium shows from summer of those years, and finished it off with Bob Fried memorial Boogie. tough narrowing it down. There were a few shows that were off limits like RFK w/ Allmans cause they had special plans for those.