Listen To The River: St. Louis '71 '72 '73 (20-CD)

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July 21, 2021 - 6:32am

1,587 replies

Srinivasan.Mut…

Joined:
July 2, 2018

What's Inside:
7 Previously Unreleased Complete Shows On 20 Discs
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/09/71
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/10/71
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/17/72
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/18/72
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/19/72
Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/29/73
Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/30/73
Sourced from tapes recorded by Rex Jackson, Owsley "Bear" Stanley, and Kidd Candelario
Mastered in HDCD by Jeffrey Norman
Restoration and Speed Correction by Plangent Processes

Individually Numbered, Limited Edition of 13,000

Steamboats and BBQ, ice cream cones and Mardi Gras - are you ready to laissez les bons temps rouler with the "gateway" to the Grateful Dead? Meet us, won't you, in St. Louis for seven complete and previously unreleased Dead concerts that capture the heart of the band's affinity for the River City.

LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73 is a 20CD set featuring five shows from the Fox Theatre - December 9 and 10, 1971; October 17-19, 1972; and two from the Kiel Auditorium - October 29 and 30, 1973.

The seven shows in the collection span slightly less than two years, but they represent some of the best shows the Grateful Dead played during some of its peak tours. The music tells the story of a band evolving, changing from one sound to another seamlessly, precipitated – in large part – by significant personnel changes in the Dead’s lineup.

The two 1971 shows feature the original Grateful Dead lineup plus newcomer Keith Godchaux on piano. This version of the band would hold together for the next six months as the Dead embarked upon its Europe ’72 tour. By the time the Dead returned to the Fox Theatre less than a year later, they were without Pigpen, who’d played his final show with the Dead at the Hollywood Bowl on June 17, 1972. A year after the exceptional Fox 1972 shows, the Dead came back to St. Louis, but played the much larger Kiel Auditorium, touring behind the release of WAKE OF THE FLOOD, which came out just two weeks before.

All told, the band played 60 different songs during these shows highlighted by blazing romps through “Beat It On Down The Line” and “One More Saturday Night” and wistful takes on “Row Jimmy” and “Brokedown Palace” (whose lyrics give the collection its name). Meanwhile, the copious jamming ebbed and flowed like the mighty Mississippi River on multiple voyages through “The Other One” and “Dark Star.” Naturally, the band paid tribute to one of its favorite rock and rollers and one of St. Louis’ biggest stars by playing Chuck Berry songs at every show in the collection, including Pigpen galloping through “Run Rudolph Run.”

Each show has been restored and speed corrected using Plangent Processes with mastering by Jeffrey Norman. The collection comes in a slipcase with artwork by Liane Plant and features an 84-page hardbound book as well as other Dead surprises. To set the stage for the music, the liner notes provide several essays about the shows, including one by Sam Cutler, the band’s tour manager during that era, and another by Grateful Dead scholar Nicholas G. Meriwether, among others.

Due October 1st, LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73, is limited to 13,000 individually numbered copies and available exclusively from Dead.net.

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August 18, 2021 - 6:27pm

#1191

Born Cross Eye…

Joined:
August 25, 2008

How many boxes are left?

Years ago, it was possible to "order" a whole lot of these limited releases and if you ordered above a number of units, you'd get something like "unable to order the number you requested" or something like that. Then you start over with a lower figure and keep trying again and again until you came close to the correct number of boxes left. Or something like that.

With this current system, it appears that you cannot do that with this release.

However, I am patiently waiting for that shipping email to be sent and more importantly the box itself.

I have 12/10/71 a bootleg cd set;
10/18 & 19/72 as downloads (I think I still have them)
August 18, 2021 - 12:25pm

#1192

Deadheadbrewer

Joined:
February 2, 2010

We are everywhere . . .

I was at a river picnic Sunday for someone's birthday; lots of swimming and Bocce . . .

Started talking to the husband of one of the invitees, and he mentioned living in S.F. for twenty years, from 1973-1993. I said, "Well, being a huge DeadHead, I HAVE to ask if you are into them . . . " His eyes lit up, and he enthusiastically said, "Yes! I saw them something like 150 times!" So we chatted.

Eventually I asked when his FIRST show was, and he started thinking, then told me it was in the winter of '72 in Michigan. I said, "Was it perhaps 12/14/71 at Hill Auditorium in Ann Arbor?" I thought he was going to swallow his tongue, he was so surprised! (partially because he could likely tell that I was one year old at the time) He decided that THAT was actually the year, NOT 1972, and then he shouted to his wife, "Honey, you're not going to believe this!"

I mentioned that he might want to check out a new box set that had music from the two shows just prior to his first . . . Now I'm getting his e-dress from the birthday friend, so that I can send him an amalgam of 12/14/71, from the official release and some high-quality boots.
August 17, 2021 - 5:53pm

#1193

LedDed

Joined:
February 16, 2017

El Posto Cinco

El Posto Cinco

Concrete Blonde - Bloodletting
Los Lobos - Kiko Live
Kool & The Gang - Light of Worlds
Pink Floyd - Live At Knebworth 1990
Billy Gibbons - Hardware

Saw Guns N' Roses again last night in Denver. Nothing new, but a rowdy crowd loud and ready to party. Felt absolutely great to be back out on the tiles again!

Cheers everyone, be well.

\m/
August 17, 2021 - 8:10am

#1194

daverock

Joined:
September 1, 2014

Gibson Les Paul Specials

On some of the pictures in the booklet for Dicks Picks 35, chronicling shows in August 1971, it looks as though Jerry is playing a a Gibson Les Paul Special - in glorious TV yellow at that. I have always liked this guitar - it is one of the few Gibsons that has single coil pickups - P90s. Keith Richards used one live on Midnight Rambler for decades, and in England it seemed to be used more by rhythm players in hard rock - but not metal - mode. Humble Pie and Mott The Hoople used them sometimes, as well as various punk bands. I think Johnny Thunders played one.
August 17, 2021 - 5:24am

#1195

KeithFan2112

Joined:
August 6, 2014

8/14 & 8/15 1971

Yeah Proudfoot, especially the 14th. As I mentioned on the other page, Jerry's playing a Gibson Les Paul at these shows, which gives them a completely different / unusual flavor than anything I've heard after they started playing songs from the WMD, AB, Ace, and Garcia records. I love this guitar from years of listening to hard rocker guitarist Ace Frehley play it (pretty much his trademark axe). Just listen to that thing sing while he's picking away under Weir's vocals on El Paso. I guess headphones help. And The Other One => Jam => Other One Reprise on the 14th is some top shelf jamming.

I don't recall any official releases from '71 forward with the Les Paul. I certainly don't recall hearing the unusual texture enough to look it up like I did with this one. I know he used it on and off prior to those above-mentioned records, but he primarily stuck with the SG when it came to Gibsons in this era. As best I can tell from the Jerry guitar site, the 30 Trips show from 11/10 1967 is the only official release featuring it from the '60s/'70s. It looks like he had been playing a few different Les Paul models throughout 1967-1968 and switched to the SG the very night of the famous show at the Greek on 10/20/68 (also in the 30 Trips box of course). So yeah Doc, these are special shows to this guitar geek.
August 15, 2021 - 4:41pm

#1196

proudfoot

Joined:
August 2, 2020

August 71 should get a lot of attention

8 5
8 6
8 14
8 15
8 23
8 24
8 26

14 and 15 deserve a lot of love
August 15, 2021 - 2:00am

#1197

Forensicdoceleven

Joined:
June 17, 2008

Truth is the cry of all, but the game of few…..

50 years ago today…..

August 15, 1971
Berkeley Community Theater, Berkeley, California

Set 1: Big Railroad Blues-Playing In The Band-Mr. Charlie-Cumberland Blues-Sugaree-Promised Land-Big Boss Man-China Cat Sunflower>I Know You Rider-Me And Bobby McGee-Casey Jones

Set 2: Truckin'>drums>The Other One>Me And My Uncle>The Other One>Wharf Rat-Turn On Your Love Light

Encore: Johnny B. Goode-And We Bid You Goodnight

Deadicated to the420bandito, MLavallee, blueboy714, Roguedeadguy, chilly1214, Moses Quasar, kevinbrandon, UncleBill'sBand, gruesom, skantor, Lightfoot510, JJJJJ, msmiranda, bchar, JackS, luis, clovett, and Dead Ahead, because memory is a complicated thing, a relative to truth, but not its twin…..

Requests for White Rabbit, and a critical envelope…………..

As with the previous evening, a show that doesn’t get a lot of attention. A little less grease, and a bit more jamming. A worthwhile trade-off? You decide………..

Rock on!!

Doc
So long as I confine my thoughts to my own ideas divested of words, I do not see how I can be easily mistaken……
August 14, 2021 - 2:00am

#1198

Forensicdoceleven

Joined:
June 17, 2008

I like living in Berkeley, but I know Berkeley's not the world….

50 years ago today…..

August 14, 1971
Berkeley Community Theater, Berkeley, California

Set 1: Bertha-Me And My Uncle-Mr. Charlie-Sugaree-El Paso-Big Railroad Blues-Big Boss Man-Brokedown Palace-Playing In The Band-Hard To Handle-Cumberland Blues-Loser-Promised Land

Set 2: Truckin'>drums>The Other One>Me And Bobby McGee-Sugar Magnolia-Not Fade Away>Goin' Down The Road Feeling Bad>Not Fade Away

Encore: Johnny B. Goode-Uncle John's Band

Deadicated to Serpent of Dreams, droidmec, WhatsbecomeofRosemarysBaby, Fogle, MilesM, NWScarletFireGuy, Old Chief Smokem, mdboucher, Quodlibet, Thats_Otis, and Pancho Pantera, because memory is the treasure house of the mind wherein the monuments thereof are kept and preserved……

One of the better summer 71 shows, with a decent dose of first set Pigpen and a nice big jam to open the second set. Phil is very active. The second set seems to be dominated by Bobby, with four straight Weir songs to kick it off. One never hears a lot about the two Berkeley shows, but they are worth a listen!!

Rock on!!

Doc
Sometimes I can think of nothing more blissful than going to Berkeley and reading Byron for three years……………
August 13, 2021 - 4:32pm

#1199

Oroborous

Joined:
June 19, 2007

He’s not dead

he’s just resting...
August 13, 2021 - 1:49pm

#1200

alvarhanso

Joined:
January 16, 2014

Slipcase slipcase second generation

I'm curious if it's more Sunshine Daydream or Get Shown the Light slipcase, the pic in the email makes the object coming out appear more substantial than those thin, etched paper cases of GSTL, which was just 11cds. SSDD was just 3 plus DVD or BluRay, so that kind of slipcase was nice for that. This is the biggest box set cd wise since PacNW, which was 19cds. Other than 30 Trips's gargantuan 80cds in 2015, this the biggest since 2014 Spring '90 The Other One's 23cds. I'm expecting some heft to this thing. If you could do Europe in a steamtrunk, maybe taking a steamboat on the mighty Mississippi, one may need a valise or briefcase? Whatever it is, however large it is, it shall be adorning a spot on the shelves, but I simply can't wait for the goodness within. I'm pining for these shows like a Norwegian Blue parrot that's most definitely not pushing up the daisies. The plumage of the box may be lovely, but the glory is in the music of the Dead 1971-73.

Hoping somewhere along the way we get a Listening Party featuring at least one of the three Brokedowns giving the box its name.

John Perry Barlow

John Perry Barlow

Forums

Dead Store Products

What's Inside:
7 Previously Unreleased Complete Shows On 20 Discs
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/09/71
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/10/71
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/17/72
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/18/72
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/19/72
Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/29/73
Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/30/73
Sourced from tapes recorded by Rex Jackson, Owsley "Bear" Stanley, and Kidd Candelario
Mastered in HDCD by Jeffrey Norman
Restoration and Speed Correction by Plangent Processes

Individually Numbered, Limited Edition of 13,000

Steamboats and BBQ, ice cream cones and Mardi Gras - are you ready to laissez les bons temps rouler with the "gateway" to the Grateful Dead? Meet us, won't you, in St. Louis for seven complete and previously unreleased Dead concerts that capture the heart of the band's affinity for the River City.

LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73 is a 20CD set featuring five shows from the Fox Theatre - December 9 and 10, 1971; October 17-19, 1972; and two from the Kiel Auditorium - October 29 and 30, 1973.

The seven shows in the collection span slightly less than two years, but they represent some of the best shows the Grateful Dead played during some of its peak tours. The music tells the story of a band evolving, changing from one sound to another seamlessly, precipitated – in large part – by significant personnel changes in the Dead’s lineup.

The two 1971 shows feature the original Grateful Dead lineup plus newcomer Keith Godchaux on piano. This version of the band would hold together for the next six months as the Dead embarked upon its Europe ’72 tour. By the time the Dead returned to the Fox Theatre less than a year later, they were without Pigpen, who’d played his final show with the Dead at the Hollywood Bowl on June 17, 1972. A year after the exceptional Fox 1972 shows, the Dead came back to St. Louis, but played the much larger Kiel Auditorium, touring behind the release of WAKE OF THE FLOOD, which came out just two weeks before.

All told, the band played 60 different songs during these shows highlighted by blazing romps through “Beat It On Down The Line” and “One More Saturday Night” and wistful takes on “Row Jimmy” and “Brokedown Palace” (whose lyrics give the collection its name). Meanwhile, the copious jamming ebbed and flowed like the mighty Mississippi River on multiple voyages through “The Other One” and “Dark Star.” Naturally, the band paid tribute to one of its favorite rock and rollers and one of St. Louis’ biggest stars by playing Chuck Berry songs at every show in the collection, including Pigpen galloping through “Run Rudolph Run.”

Each show has been restored and speed corrected using Plangent Processes with mastering by Jeffrey Norman. The collection comes in a slipcase with artwork by Liane Plant and features an 84-page hardbound book as well as other Dead surprises. To set the stage for the music, the liner notes provide several essays about the shows, including one by Sam Cutler, the band’s tour manager during that era, and another by Grateful Dead scholar Nicholas G. Meriwether, among others.

Due October 1st, LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73, is limited to 13,000 individually numbered copies and available exclusively from Dead.net.

Hard to believe I'm the first comment

Guess I got lucky?

This is a box set to get on board with. I like the concept of "the river". Listened to 12/10/71 last night at store, very nice show, very nice recording off archive. "Official" release should be a-ok.

NOW WHERE IS DaP 39???? :-)

Plangent Processes ....

.... I am in! Dutifully ordered; grateful for the embarrassment of riches

2021 Box Set

Another big surprise from Dave. A St. Louis 71-73 combo, nobody had this on their radar screen. Just ordered mine. Never have seen a box released without a seaside chat. What the hell is going on? I am excited!

Yahoo!

You are the MAN, Dave!!!

And all the PTB.

:)))

Wonder what the box is gonna look like?

No pictures of the box!

OMG!!

So, everyone was right: it's a '71, fall '72, fall '73 box. The setlists really reflect the band's evolution, especially going from a 7-minute Playing in the Band to a 20+ minute version over the course of the year.

Beautiful the way this box will provide the pre-Euro '72 and post Euro-'72 band in all its glory.

$200? There's the sweet spot.

I believe this will take me a good deal of the w-w-w-winter to listen to, much less fully absorb.

Yet another multi-year geographic focus. Well played, Dave! Muchas gracias!

The record industry is killing me...

Is there no end to the releases this month!!!??!?!

We got the Joni, we got the Dylan, we got the dead, we got the lee morgan.

No way I can hide all this from my wife!! I can hide the mail when it comes,,, but,,,, that new book shelf to hold all this stuff I can't hide as easily!

LIstening to Birdsong from 10/17/72,,,, another one from the archive that is damn near perfect, official release should be even better!!!

At Last

Been waiting months for this announcement and it’s seven early 70’s shows which I love. Ordered immediately as I expect the 13000 will go quickly. Can’t wait for Autumn to listen to these shows. Now roll on DaP39!

Wonderful!....

....simply wonderful!

Got the Fox Box I Have Been Asking For....

....and then some. This is an instant classic.

Killer box set!

I just ordered 2, one for me and one for my brother. What a knockout!

Oooooooh....

....I like that cap a lot. SOLD!

Yippee

Of course I’ve ordered it!

OK, GD

You got my $$$ for a very appreciated release.

My first show anniversary was this past Sunday (7/18/82)...39 years later, the long, strange trip continues.

God Bless the Grateful Dead!!!

I Totally Understand Dennis!!

Dead Fox Box Ordered - check! Lee Morgan Lighthouse Box Ordered - check! Bob Dylan Bootleg Springtime In NY Ordered - check! Plus sundry Dave McMurray, Crosby, Drive-By Truckers, and Son Volt - check! Separation & Divorce - pending!

I just got notice the dog's license is up for renewal, so I can start by adding a zero on the end of that charge on the books...New cord for my tools, add a zero to the total....

Only one Cumberland?!....

....what a rip off. Cancelling my order (kidding).

wut

...this came as a surprise, however the pre-available sleuthing that was initiated yesterday has now paid off.

Thanks GD!

Sixtus

How fast will it sell out?

FAST!

Yes!

To Dave L - Thank You! Many of us (myself included) have been asking for the Fox shows in some capacity. It is clear you watch these boards. I know from the Seaside chat that these shows have been on your radar for a while. Still these shows have been heavily discussed on the boards in recent years so we are being given what we asked for. Adding the shows from 1973 is the icing on the cake.

Of course I ordered this box as soon as I saw the announcement. I can't wait to get it.

Right in the sweet spot

Count me in again. Great combo of shows here.

Thoughts

I was so excited to hear about this new boxed set. After learning about these shows, I’m even more excited. I’m glad that it spans three separate years in the Dead cannon, and the setlists look amazing. Even the shows without the Dark Stars, Other Ones, and other jam vehicles look interesting and captivating. Even more, I’m very grateful that some of this material is getting released separately as well. The 12/10/71 show is getting released on both CD and vinyl(!), and the Playin’>Drums>DS>Dew>Playin’ is getting released on vinyl too. Very smart decision. Overall, this is very exciting.

Three Comments

First, is it "Only One Cumberland?...." or, "It's Got a Cumberland!"

Second.. thank you GD/David Lemieux.. not many of you know this, but HendrixFreak has been both on a hunger strike and out on the ledge of 53rd floor of the Wells Fargo Building in Denver threatening to jump unless he gets a Fall '72 box. I am happy to report he is down off the ledge and finishing a greasy pulled pork sammy at the BBQ joint around the corner. Extra greasy...

Third.. Dennis, I am beginning to feel much sympathy for your wife.

All is good with the world again. As you were.

So I go downstairs.....

... after a morning of ordering more "stuff" from the cornucopia of musical choices being given us (or thrusted upon us), I head down to read my favorite monthly paper "The Funny Times".

There is the single panel joke. Guy at an AA meeting talking to the group.

My name is Roger. I own a plethora of music on original vinyl, eight-track, cassette and compact disc. Including most digital file formats. I was about to buy remastered rereleases on 180-gram vinyl when my wife said I needed help.

Bottom of panel labeled "Audiophiles Anonymous"

Funny, fate or cry for help?

I was thrilled when I saw…

I was thrilled when I saw this news. October 19, 1972 was the night I got on the bus. I thought the roof was gonna come off the place during the Casey Jones at the end of the first set. At that moment I knew I wanted more of this. I never missed a St. Louis show after that.

I've been waiting almost 50…

I've been waiting almost 50 years for these! These were amongst the first shows I attended (along with the Miami Rock Festival , a Kiel Auditorium show in late 1970, and Early 1971 shows at the Fox - THAT Fox show is when I got it; got on the Bus!). These shows were seminal! Thank you so much for releasing this set. I can HARDLY WAIT!

Listen to the River

Done! No problems ordering. I'm just glad I happened to be doing my morning emails when the announcement
popped up. Let the Games begin!

Well...

At least Doc gets more lovingly redone 71, Hendrix freak gets some fall 72, and congrats to the rest of y'all excited about this one....I'm getting disc 10 & 20 with big Dark Stars and fall 73. Sure I'll get hooked on the rest as is usually the case with releases I'm at first apprehensive about..
Curious how long this one will take to sell out?

Nice work

Thanks Dave and Co

oh my goodness

must be dreaming

A crowd pleaser

This box should be a real crowd pleaser. Thanks Dave and Dead.net -- everyone involved. Like the Pacific Northwest box, this regional, but, over the years releases are a nice touch. With that in mind, Dave please consider an MSG N.Y.C. September 1979 release. . .. Just sayin'. I predict it would be an instant sell out and another crowd pleaser.

I really can not wait to see the artwork, box, discs, booklet, inserts, etc..

Vinyl Me Please!

Great offerings! The "Run, Run, Rudolf" with Pigpen was on a GD Hour from the early/mid 90's. One of my required X-mas selections every year near the holiday. Cheers!

Finally able to complete my order!!

Dead.net didn't like my VPN so I turned it off while ordering.

I'm trying not to take this personally.

Yep. Ordered my copy too. …

Yep. Ordered my copy too. And i 2nd the request for an MSG box.

Good times...

Well, JimInMD has no idea that his mentioning Wells Fargo and BBQ sandwiches is clairvoyant, in that Saturday I had problems with my bank (WF) and went out for BBQ sandwiches.... All is well now. And topped off by this new box.

A rough patch has now passed and, if anyone needs a laugh, check out the avatar on the official announcement at the top of the comments page -- it's "Sri" or somebody likely not connected to DL and TPTB.

This sucker gonna sell out in a day or so, max.

What??

Only 6 versions of Beat It On Down The Line???
Count me out.

Ordered! Now trying to…

Ordered! Now trying to decide if I should grab the 12/10/71 5LP set too. Any idea if that one is Limited Edition too?

I Left St. Louis, City of Blues

Oh wow.......a true 70's Show-Me box set, and vinyl to boot.....sign me up! And I just scored tickets for Phish in Denver on Labor Day weekend!!! Not a bad days work.

Yes I'm still alive and lurking.

Be well & Be good dead folks!

KCJ

Edit: BBQ in St. Louis? Laughable...head west

Ordered!

Grabbed the hat as well!

Very excited

The acoustics of the Fox are incredible. I've seen Dylan and Neil Young solo there. I can't imagine seeing the Dead there. The Kiel Center (now called the Scott Trade Center) is awesome too, but the Fox is the best in St Louis.

I'm 2 hours SE of St Louis,…

I'm 2 hours SE of St Louis, so 90% of my concert experiences are from there. Love the Lou!

How do you order it, though?

I can't seem to get through to the pre-order page. It looks plenty good -especially the 1972 and 1973 shows, but I'm drawing blanks trying to order it at the moment.

looks great

DaveRock

Did you select the three ALAC files? They have to be selected even if you don’t intend to download them. The lower pre-order button should then work. If that isn’t the problem then I can’t help It seemed pretty seamless to me. Good Luck.

Edit certainly easier to order than submit the comment 3 attempts and I had to replace the word downlo(ads) with files

Daverock!

Try turning off your VPN. That worked for me.

Wait, what!?!

7 shows, from '71-'73, and there's only 1Wharf Rat?

Phew!

Stillwaters & Colin-thanks for your advice. It was not choosing to download the three tracks to listen to that was stopping me getting through. It does say its a required field, but as I am not going to listen to them I assumed I didn't need to fill in the field.
It would have been ironic if, after checking on here every day since Doomsday to see if a box had been announced, then seeing it had, and that it included shows from the 71-73 era - I found I didn't have the wherewithal to order it !

Now I know why I had a hankering for BBQ yesterday...

Had the Brisket Bomb along pork bellies and hush puppies yesterday for lunch - you guys and gals north of Boston, check out The Rusty Can in Byfield MA...

Looking at Compendium - a Feeling Groovy Jam, a Mind Left Body Jam, a couple of Darkstars, TOOs, Birdsongs plus a Cumberland and a Here Comes Sunshine, wow all I need is a Black Peter - woops check that box too.

Now the important part are the two vinyl ala carte's worthy???

Thankful Dead

I’m actually happy this box set is from the 70’s. I have enough Grateful Dead albums. Had it been a box set from the 60’s, 80’s or 90’s, it would have been harder to pass on.