Grateful Dead

Looks like it took about 24 hours to sell out.

But the glassware is still there. I guess cards make sense. A rabid base of collectors what with sports and other categories. Can't wait to see how sky high those go on Fleabay soon. Wonder how many of those they printed?
Cheers

The lack of pertinent filler and the inclusion of a 1990 encore of US Blues (and other "clues") pushes me to look for a pattern and I think I see one.

Last year, partly no doubt to reward Lemiuex for successful "legacy management" -- and, obviously, the evidence: a solid sales record --- Rhino gave DL the green light to put out his first two shows ('87) in a four-disc set based on a cassette master. Same thing with the '90 show, sans the encore. So far, historically speaking, they've been loathe to release more '80s shows due to the quality of the cassette masters. So 2021 was a test of cassette master viability in the market.

Now Dave speaks of "variety," which tells me that he and Rhino believe they can sell the music on the '80s cassette masters. No doubt there's smokin' music on many extant '80s cassettes -- many if not most of us caught smokin' '80s shows (particularly '80 to ... you choose the year their batting average dropped). So into the release mix they go. Those DPs sold out, right?

Compared to other bands' archival releases, '80s cassette masters of GD shows probably hold up pretty well. In terms of what the GD have released, it would be a drop in sound quality. Fans like us might bitch, initially, but will we buy it? I believe that this year they will construct a box set of these shows and its sales will be the arbiter of whether this strategy works over time. Part of the appeal of DPs, for me, is that they're relatively inexpensive and, lately, two of four will be pretty vintage -- I'm not going to risk losing out on them, especially the bonus disc. $100/yr is nothing. And if I don't care for a box, I won't buy it. I skipped the '90s boxes because I don't need to have it all. But the relentlessness of releases means that we already have a phenomenal record of this band's ability to deliver. If in a few years the market's enthusiasm begins to wane, they can dial back the number of copies in the limited DP series.

What's the advantage to testing the market-ability of '80s cassette masters? They have nothing to lose but one slow-selling box. They have a limited number of iconic shows in the Vault. Though somewhat plentiful, release-able shows from 1971-1979, say, are finite. By my count, they've delivered nearly half of all shows played in the 1971-1974 period, so well over half the release-able goods. Ultimately, if they plan to have their releases hold up for another, say, 15 years, they've got to mine the '80s. 15 yrs of DPs = 75 shows. 15 yrs of 6-show boxes = 90 shows. Toss in a few random releases and that's ~175 shows. Say the years 1971 to 1974 will still yield ~15-20 shows each (max). That's 60-80 shows. Say there's another 10 from '69 that'll work and 20 each from 1976 to 1979. That's another 80. That's pretty close to the max needed. Although I think DL has remarked about "20" years (add another 50 shows to release). Say we have ~200 shows already. Add another ~200 shows and that's closing in on one-third of the 1,500 shows rumored to be in the vaults. That's a big percentage. Dipping into the '80s cassettes gives them a lot of breathing room and would make the choice stuff that's left sound even better by comparison.

Mark my words: look for the box set annoucement this summer and we'll see just exactly how addled I really am!

HF, I thoroughly enjoyed your detail-oriented (and scratch math-heavy) assessment;
it had me nodding my own noggin along with it by the end.

Give us some 85.
I wish for April Twenty-Seventh, 1985 at The Frost please.
To start.

Sixtus

Okay Hendrixfreak, I will mark it.

I like the way your mind works. Are you sure you are not an accountant?

We also had some cassette masters released in the Dick's picks series and previous Dave's picks as well as the 30 Trips box.

Any thoughts on why the last box hasn't sold yet? How long do you think it will take?

I do think we will get an 80s box released this year. Just would love to know when.

I wonder if these will have the same value as my Pokémon cards? I recently sold ONE 1st Edition Charizard for mid 6 figures, I'm still in a state of shock over it.

Believe that one came from the DAT 2 track master, not a cassette. I would have less of a problem with DAT masters than cassette masters. Some of those cassettes do not sound good, and most are the PA mix and so are missing elements such as Phil Lesh's bass. But even with that, they felt they had to mix in an AUD for crowd noise. The crowd noise on DaP 36 was a bit too much, the Matrix mix could have dampened that a bit. DaP 8 was a good Matrix, though I can't tell you the last time I put it on, even just the Scarlet Fire. The completist (and bargain hunter) in me will make me subscribe every year, but there have been several lately I just don't think I'll be picking up to put on even every couple years. Even DaP 23 1/22/78 is one I don't listen to often. If I want a '78 show, I'm more apt to dig into July '78. Going to more cassette masters might change my calculus. And if they're gonna do an 80s-90s box, I would hope it would be DAT masters or multitracks like Spring '90 TOO. Fall '89 was recorded on multitrack, so that I could be far happier with than a box that has shows that sound like the worst of 30 Trips. Just hope we have years before we really reach the dregs at the bottom.

Also, I'd much rather some of the 60s stuff gets put out while those fans are still around and still enjoying Dead releases.

I do not have this one. Thanks Dave for releasing a show I have not heard. Where are the 1970 shows indeed.

I see the cd sold out before the glass! Is that a first?

Dave Rock
I don’t think I did compare DL and JG I simply posited the time frame. If they did bring in a replacement who could it be, is there a Doug or Dana in the team as we appear to need someone with a 4 letter name, beginning with D.

And my biases and tendency to generalize are showing. Yes, they've put out some great sounding cassettes, like the Houseboat Tapes, and others that I have thoroughly enjoyed (didn't DiP have a few '80s shows?), and yes I'm conflating cassettes with DATs when talking '80s. I have zero knowledge of what shows are on what media. But I hear myself cooling to '80s s on cassette or whatever media they used, as it's said to be sub-par. Hasn't Dave himself commented on this factor? Seems like it was discussed relative to finding shows for 30 Trips. And some of those didn't hold up to critical listening.

As to my biases, I confess I left the scene in '87 after three nights at the Rocks and two daytime shows in Telluride in one week (time for a break, eh?), as I detected Jer's decline or experienced it as air going out of the balloon. I went back for two shows in '92 mostly for nostalgia and enjoyed them. Interestingly, my fever for the band's recordings never flagged. So if they pick a hot '80s show for DP, I'll probably dig it but pass on a whole box. UNLESS... ha ha! .... they make it '80-'81, which is very hot.

I have an aud of 12-26-81 in Oakland that I believe marye attended and though the setlist appears tepid, they smoke it. Just a rollicking show.

Okay, I'm babbling now. I guess I could dig the occasional '80s show but not a box. There, 10 words but I went on for miles. Paz, gentlemen.

Dave needs to hire an apprentice named Dilbert to take over when Dave retires.

DP = Dick’s Picks
DaP = Dave’s Picks
DiP = Dilbert’s Picks

There are some good ones.
3-9-81 is an example, and it’s on the list that is supposedly the list that Dave first made of potential releases.

I certainly would like summer 84 and 85 to be polished up and released. There’s some good stuff there.

Downloads are the way to go for the 80’s shows that have not just exactly perfect sound quality but are certainly worthy of release because it’s about the band first and foremost.
This assumes that Rhino can actually some day figure out how to put together a fully functioning download site. I haven’t been affected by it but if you read the comments on the download pages you are pretty quickly convinced that it’s an amateur operation.

I'm pleased for more 1977 Dead. The way the world is today, 1977 looks really goddamn good and I loved the entire decade and growing up in it. Nostalgia doesn't even come close to how I feel about a time that will, alas, never be again. Kind of miss the skeletons on the cover though. I have skulls all over the house which my family occasionally take issue with. I found something recently that said skulls are a symbol of eternal rebirth, new beginnings and all that... truth is, beside the fact that we are all skeletons covered in meat and skin, I just think they look cool.

Last five:

Beatles - Abbey Road
Dead & Co. - Moon Palace, Cancun, Mexico 1/19/20
Warren Zevon - Excitable Boy
Mr. Big - Lean Into It
Charlie Hunter - Everybody Has A Plan Until They Get Punched In The Mouth

\m/

If you are looking for some great jazz to listen to while waiting for Dave's 41 the recent release of John Coltrane's, A Love Supreme, Live in Seattle is outstanding. Very highly recommended...!

One last comment about the cover of Dave's 41. The yellow geometric shapes at the top of the album cover are actually on the roof of the Baltimore Civic Center

....purchased.
I have a habit I didn't even knew I had.

Looking at the variety of Dicks Picks versus Road Trips versus Dave's Picks, I would say Dave is just hitting his stride with these choices over the last couple of years especially with his namesake series.

The first 20 picks only saw two Brent era shows which weren't enough. He's just now making up for it with the 4 disc 87 and 90 sets, and every note and beat of those shows rock.

I understand the nostalgia for pre-retirement Dead and I'm a big fan of that era too. Last year's box hit that 71 - 73 spot with 7 exceptional shows.

The Giants Stadium 87, 89 and 91 box is epic. The 87 show, first night of 89 and second night of 91 I would seem as essential. A full Alpine 89 box would even surpass that.

Spring 89 had some more epic shows. Ann Arbor, Rosemont, Mecca, Minneapolis....that would make a fantastic box right there.

Of course The Ark from the early days would be great. Great shows from Red Rocks, The Frost, Cal Expo, Autzen Stadium, Richfield 91, Boston 91.....I could list hundreds of top notch shows from multiple recording sources throughout the decade starting with Brents 1st show through 92 or 93.

How about 9/26/91? That would make a lovely Dave's Pick.

I could make a lengthy wish list of shows. I've done quote a few of those over the years here.

For me, now that Dave's truly hitting the variety, my appreciation for all era's has just grown. I could probably even appreciate a Wave To The Wind now. I Fought The Law maybe not quite so much, depending on the rest of a given show.

Just reminding myself of that epic Birdsong from Vegas 91 with Carlos Santana sitting in. You want an epic Birdsong that's one of the best that needs to be released. Same with those 87 shows Santana sat in.

Don't make me type out a massive wish list....m

Holy crap.. it's true. I'd call that on overreach, but who am I to judge.

Similar to the CD's, so long as you don't expose the Dave's Picks trading cards 1 through to oxygen, they should be ok.

And Space.. love ya bro, but passion for old dead (as well and 'newer' dead) is not nostalgia, it's kick ass music as is the giants box and many of the later era stuff you mention. I like it.

Or, in the words of Adrian Belew:
The more I look at it
The more I like it
I do think it's good
The fact is...
No matter how closely I study it
No matter how I take it apart
No matter how I'll break it down
It remains consistent

Probably because I didn't see them very often, but older shows are actually less nostalgic for me tham more recent ones. Shows from that 71-73 box don't remind me of anything that ever happened to me, but I love the music. Same with 1968-1970 shows. But if I hear anything from Europe 1990-I can't help remembering all sorts of...crap. And good things, too - but things not necessarily connected to the music.

Some of the unexpected highlights of the 30 Trips box came from later years for me, though-1984, 1989, 1990 and 1991 for example. I would say I prefer those to the 1972 show included last time I played them. I can't remember a darn thing about the shows from 76,77 or 78 in the big box - obviously had a deep impact!

Colin-only kidding.

This comment is purely music related. I am on quite a deep, choosy mission and journey currently as far as why I am listening to music is concerned. There is too much reference in Trey Anastasio's music to the numbers and words related to 7/11, or 11/7 as it is interpreted for dates in the Indian subcontinent. Basically, Trey will punch in 7/11 on the 'watchman's' register before....entering the 'mansion'....and then, punch 7/11 on the register, while exiting......If....he punches himself in as 7/11 in the 'middle' of a Phish song.....what follows on guitar immediately afters...and, until he checks himself out....is....Pure...Jimi Hendrix!!!!! I want to know whether the Dead can help me expand my knowledge about these numbers further? I wake up to Hendrix.....I sleep to Hendrix.....in between....I seek....knowledge....which even the most potent Buddhist scripture may not accurately provide. So, I just bought my very first year long Dave's Picks package here on dead.net. Looking forward to the treats. Happy New Year everybody.! Trey....doesn't do this often enough by the way.....so, always been a big fan of Jerry as well!!

This is a Grateful Dead forum and "Trey" and "Hendrix" don't go in the same sentence. Or universe.

It's okay to mention "Coltrane," though.

Don't take offense, yours, Hendrixfreak

If you listen to 11/7/71, some knowledge may be found there.

And with all due respect, please don't compare Trey to Jimi, you don't want to get HendrixFreak all worked up!

Doc
The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the shoreline of wonder.

Stellablue - I'm not sure I get your drift my friend, but mention of the number "11" and extending your knowledge puts me in mind of "The Eleven", one of The Dead's greatest jams. Maybe best heard on "Live Dead". If you haven't already got this you are in for a treat..An essential path on the road to enlightenment.

I know nothing about Phish, though-so I may be barking up the wrong tree!

I get VERY excited anytime I am about to listen to something I’ve never heard before, hence, bring on Baltimore 1977!! Also, even though I didn’t attend this show, having seen many, many shows at this venue somehow makes it more interesting to me.
DAVEROCK mentioned’76-‘78 shows from Boxzilla, all 3 of these were revelatory to me, especially at the time of release. Sometimes I think maybe I DO have too much damn music(thankfully, that thought always goes away very quickly).
It occurred to me while reading this new thread, that if Dave L. ever DOES find a release that pleases everybody?? The world as we know it may cease to exist!!
Been sick in bed for 9 days, even though fully vaxxed & boosted. Not fun. I could give a last 60, but instead, just a last 5:
Zappa Halloween ‘77-Disc 4
-Disc 3
Jethro Tull Benefit box-Disc 3
-Disc 4
Carpenters Anthology(I know, I know)
…but I keep trying to tell you…

Music is the Best!!

Get on The Bus, leave any preconceived notions behind, and never look back.
I sense a stream of consciousness and understand on some level your desire as stated, albeit in a linguistically creative way.

You will definitely find what you seek.

Happy Trails.
Sixtus

John Coltrane's, A Love Supreme, Live in Seattle

Terrific! Best release of 2021, minus DaP 38 of course. There's a bunch of new Coltrane pressing right now, check out the Acoustic Sounds site.....

....and they did it justice. They also bust out Fire and Bold As Love from time to time.
RIP Meatloaf.

the bread we will leaven

my Vegas residency begins next week

Meatloaf dies
Louie Anderson dies
we all die

eventually

just like castles made of sand falling/melting/slipping into the sea

Quicksilver Messenger Service - What about me
Blue Oyster Cult - 1st
Santana - Caravanserai
Atomic Rooster - Death Walks behind you
Donovan - Cosmic Wheels

Mr Ones - good to see you recommend the 76-78 shows from 30 Trips that I can remember nothing of. I must check them out again - it was only through looking on here that I picked up on the 84 show.
The fact that I have shows that I know nothing of suggests I may have too much - although 30 Trips is a bit different. Anyway-hope you are feeling well again soon.

I think it would be a travesty if Dave picked a release that everyone agreed on ! It would be like we were all clones of each other. Voicing disagreement with someone is often a mark of respect.

By Charlie Christian, with Benny Goodman.
Another killer version is Herb Ellis & Joe Pass at the 1974 Concord Jazz Fest.

....are legit.

teacher plays background music while students work independently

New Speedway Boogie (from WD)
Peace Frog (Doors)
The Wheel (Jerry solo)
St. Stephen (Phil and Friends)

:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Check out Estimated Prophet, it’s in 11/7 time.

Mr Ones, be well soon!

Or maybe that’s in 7/4 lol, man, it’s been a loooonng time since we tried to play any of those songs, decades!
The Eleven is most certainly in 11 time, both songs can transport!

Lots of things go to 11. In addition to Nigel's amplifiers, you got "Whipping Post," and of course "The Eleven."

Anybody heard of the Mother Hips? A pretty danged good NorCal band (with some GD influence, although I think their particular strand of California soul comes more outta Buffalo Springfield) that had (or I spose I should say have coz they're still playing now and again) an awesome tune called "The Figure 11." It's on YewToob, you should check it. They're good doods.

I think "Prophet" is in 7/4, but who's counting?

Can't really compare the two. Jimi will always stand above pretty much the rest of the crowd. His overall impact from electrified blues into the multi-verse which made rock music what it is today and beyond.

Trey is cool and all. Phish certainly has/had their appeal, but stylistically they've become a niche than a barrier breaker.

If your looking at numerology in regards to the Dead, there are many that stand out...

2/27/1969
2/13/1970
8/27/72
5/8/77
...and so on...

Jimi
Jimi
Jimi

Paradise by the dashboard light.

Shipping notice received.

Maybe Phish could be said to have lived and worked in the musical world created by Jimi Hendrix. Comparing one to the other would be like comparing a stream to an ocean.
In a way, "rock" music, as such, didn't really exist until Hendrix. We had blues, rock n' roll, loud pop, soul etc etc in the mid 60's - but Jimi Hendrix was the one that brought it all together. As a teenager in the mid 70s, Hendrix seemed to me to be the most influential of the 60's bands and musicians in terms of the way the music actually sounded. There was music before Hendrix, and music after. I would say it stayed like that until about 1980, when synth pop raised its ghastly head.

Alright Conekid, what is your secret for consistently being one of the first each release? Are you tipping Dr. Rhino each year?

I personally don't like the artwork. I think the colors are drab and the images are amateurish. I also like skulls. I think that skull with the roses hair is the coolest looking thing on the cover. But it is what it is, just one among 41 and counting. Looking forward to the great music contained therein.

Don’t know, I’m just slowly moving up the list I guess.
Keep in mind that only a tracking number has been created, which a robot can do (and not have to take a reCRAPTCHA quiz), no physical product is actually in transit.
UPS tracking doesn’t have any info, and USPS tracking is ‘awaiting package’.

I had to order a la carte this year. They probably won’t ship mine until mid February……..

and, naturally, it's great to see the love for Jimi. I'm sure I've related my dilemma in summer 1969: in joining the Columbia Record Club I could choose 12 LPs for a penny and the 12th was a toss-up between Tommy James and the Shondells and this fellow, Jimi Hendrix. I opted for the unknown (I was turning 12) and BINGO! my world changed the second I tracked Smash Hits.

Now, can we get back to revering Pigpen? Like Jimi, in his own way, truly one of a kind.

I once read a review of John Lennon's 1971 side band, Elephant's Memory, that described them as "uglier than five Pigpens." Mean, yes, but in a topsy-turvy world, a compliment of sorts.

In concert, becoming one with his axe, Jimi really did present a beautiful person/visual. Pigpen, with his harp, presented pure, mid-tempo grease. And if you think about it, what a distinct character in all of rock 'n roll. Nothing like him. Not then, not now, not in the future until the universe collapses.

Mike Bloomfield, whose work I love, but whose personality and critiques of other players became arrogant and condescending over his short life, once said "Pigpen and the Dead ain't blues." As if a skinny little white kid from the Chicago suburbs (Bloomfield) was the arbiter of purity. He missed the point, as almost every white blues guitarist has since ~1960 -- blues contains so many styles (backporch/sloppy with moonshine; uptown/slick, gut-wrenching, humorous) and white players too often made it about speed and cleanliness as they strove for feeling they too often couldn't attain. Oh well, Bloomfield also said he didn't dig Derek & the Dominoes' Layla, so there's that.

Pigpen and the early GD (1965 to say, 1971) were almost purely about good time rock 'n roll to please and roil up an audience, not trying to project some self-appointed purist's notion of "the blues." (Yet listen to early GD when Jer plays leads for Pig's Hurts Me Too, etc. Jer knew the blues.) Thanks to ForensicDoc I have a much better appreciation of the GD's transition from carefree good time rock band in '71 to the more mature, musical musicians they became with Keith and the '72 material.

More blah blah from moi!

Maybe tbey meant the Peanuts' Pigpen.

Just sayin'.

5 GD Pigpens is a whole lotta horny

I say that because I endureduhheard 2 2 69's Lovelight earlier today.

Sweet

GD saves lives!!!

Hendrix is beyond comparison. He changed completely the way people play electric guitar, and what he did was so powerful it also changed other instruments, and music in general.

Listen to electric guitar playing prior to Hendrix and you realize that nobody was taking advantage of the full potential of the instrument. People played it the same way they played acoustic. There were lots of great players (especially in jazz) who could play fast, but nobody was taking advantage of the unlimited range of tones offered by an electric instrument. With Hendrix, everything goes from black and white to technicolor. The guitar can sound like a flute, or a thousand cellos, or a set of bongos, and it can even sound like a helicopter, or wind, or an explosion, or lots of other things that weren't usually considered music. That's pretty revolutionary.

One problem with musical innovators is that, after they show everybody how it's done, their innovations become the new normal, and people forgot how incredibly different they were when they first appeared. Once people saw and heard Hendrix, they copied him. His sound became part of mainstream, and people nowadays generally don't get how incredibly ahead of his time Hendrix was.

I don't mean that as a put down on anyone: it's not anyone's fault. This is just how music evolves. There are a few people who come along with something new that changes everything (Coltrane, Hendrix, Dylan) and they there's lots of great players and singers and songwriters who take what they did and bring it to the masses. In my mind, we can't compare the two. But that's just me.

FWIW, I think the GOGD belong in the class of innovators, as a group, because they came up with a style of ensemble playing that nobody had done before, and which became widely copied once it was heard. Just like you can't really compare other guitarists to Hendrix, you can't compare other jam bands to the GD, even though those bands can be very enjoyable.

Standard disclaimer here: this is all just my opinion, your opinion is just as valid, blah blah.

No shipping notice for me yet on #41, maties. I did, however, pre-order the vinyl 3.1.69 from Amazon, so we'll see that goes. I am in the midst of a major '69 bender, pulling out Two from the Vault and DiP 16 and 26 and whatnot. This is all YOUR fault, all youse who keeps demanding a '69 box. And I'm with ye if you want storm the vault to get one. Nothing like '69. Huh huh.

For me it was listening to The Stones - and Keith Richards in particular. In interviews he gave he would name check Muddy Waters and Robert Johnson - and where he went, I was sure to follow. Not always the best policy perhaps - but alright in this context.
Seeing the film "Performance" turned me on to Ry Cooder and slide guitar. That's probably the best soundtrack to any film I have ever heard.
And then seeing Rory Gallagher live - he was wild.

Just going off the records, I didnt really pick up too much on The Dead's blues roots. My favourite interpretation of theirs that I heard - hands down - was "Death Don't Have No Mercy" on "Live Dead". Incredible.

Also in 1974, I saw an English band called Dr Feelgood, featuring the extraordinary Wilko Johnson. No lengthy guitar solos here - they played r'n'b fast and punchy, with the emphasis on rhythm, not virtuosity.

The first time I heard Blues music, was in 1969/70 when my brother bought the Chess l.p. Bummer Road by Sonny Boy Williamson. The first time I heard Blues music live was at a Blues festival at U.C. Berkeley in the early 70s, Sonny Terry & Brownie Maghee, Big Mama Thorton, and George Harmonica Smith were all on the bill.