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    marye
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    Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

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  • icecrmcnkd
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    Daverock

    The September GD Bulletin came out yesterday in an email.
    At the end there is a section Community Bits that briefly summarizes what it being discussed on these boards.

    It says:

    In the Pick of the Day, With Discussion thread, Daverock raises the interesting point that for Europe ’72, there weren’t so many Dead Heads in the audience — and that affected the band’s playing. Maybe for the better? What do you think?

  • daverock
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    Icecrmcnkd

    Sorry - I'm not sure what that means!

  • icecrmcnkd
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    GD Bulletin

    Daverock gets the call out.

  • daverock
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    Bickershaw and repetition

    1stshow -no, I have never heard Hawkwind's set at Bickershaw. Curiously, I have never read anything about it either, not from the band or from people who were there. Simonrob was there - maybe he knows something.
    1972 was the year it all came together for Hawkwind, culminating in the Space Ritual tour in December. In fact - a timely thought - the 11 cd special deluxe edition of Space Ritual is out next Friday. Probably not good value for money unless you are really into it - they basically played the same set on that tour wherever they played - this new set features three of them. I'll be getting it - but the original album may be better value overall.

    Going back to The Dead's repetitive - or otherwise - song lists - they would have played to a different audience every night, for the most part, during E72, so maybe it mattered less than later on if they played the same songs a lot. Maybe that was the case for American gigs at first, too. It wasn't common practice in England in the 1970's to see the same band twice on the run, so I wouldn't think it was in America at first. As teenager, apart from anything else, I wouldn't have been able to afford it.

  • JimInMD
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    Repetitive, Sort of..

    With the exception of Copenhagen and London, they hit these cities just once and my guess is most locals had not had any real exposure to the touring Grateful Dead. Copenhagen is the real outlier, two hits at the same venue and similar second set setlists.

    I always assumed they wanted to make a presence in Europe and knowing people were not as exposed in the US, wanted to paint a strong picture for each city.

    So 51 years later listening to the whole tour, there is lots of repetition. But if you were there then, it was all brand new. That's how I digested it. They wanted to hit Europe with a cohesive picture of what they were doing then not knowing when or if they would return.

  • Oroborous
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    RE: repetition

    Yeah they always went heavy on what was new. Guessing partly for their own sanity/interest, and partly for the crowds.
    Not unlike Taylor Swift etc: make an album, go on the road to support it, rinse and repeat…of course like most things, they weren’t that formulaic, thank goodness lol. Plus, they were smart enough to figure out that it’s better to work stuff out on the road BEFORE you go into the studio to record it, especially when you do constantly tweak and re-invent them. So this tour was perhaps a bit of both lol.
    Also, (think we’ve discussed before?) folks didn’t tour so much back then, probably not at all in 1972 Europe?
    So they didn’t have to worry about that like they did later on.
    Sometimes I think they, or someone, just really enjoyed certain songs, so played en more.
    I’d say they played less repetitive in some ways as the years passed and they had more and more songs to choose from.
    Ok, maybe not Bob, he seemed to need to play everything to death lol. Speaking of, why Me&My Uncle every night! I mean they just put it out on the last live album only a year before! With so much new stuff as the Dead, and from WM and AB, AND both Bob and Jers recent solo albums, why Bob, why LOL ; ) Perhaps trying to bring more American “culture”?
    As far as reinterpreting songs, I think they always did that, though some more than others and with various results.
    I guess that’s yet another thing dependent on the listeners taste and chever way yer pleasure tends…
    But I’d bet the biggest factor on this tour was trying to get at least one good useable version of all the new material since they purposely chose this methodology to get the new songs out on a new album. That and mix in some familiar stuff as you never want to do all unknown songs. I could tell ya a story about doing that lol

  • 1stshow70878
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    Bickershaw again

    Finishing up as I write.
    Highlights: Dark Star, The Other One, Lovelight (Jerry!).
    The line-up for this festival is astounding. Woodstock level of mud too.
    DR, guessing you've heard Hawkwind's performance. Good?
    Cheers

  • daverock
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    Repetition

    Is that true, though, that there was more repetition of songs during the E72 tour than others in the late 60's and 70's?
    I haven't checked it out, but listening to shows, I always get a sense that they had a core group of songs that they leaned on during specific tours. It was the same listening to the 1973 box that has just come out. There weren't any shows that were wildly different from any other - possibly 6/10/73. That has a different feel than the earlier ones.

    That's not a criticism - the more they played specific songs - especially the ones incorporating jams, the better they got to know them and the more they were able to re-interpret them. Part of the ongoing mystery - especially from late 1971-1974. Maybe.

  • Oroborous
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    5/13/72

    The make up show.
    Yeah 1stshow, there is definitely a looooot of repetition! Lol
    But yeah, all good, perhaps getting a little burnout, though I haven’t had a lot of good, sit down sessions.
    By necessity, some I’ve been just streaming on crappy work device, (or I’d be still doing this months from now and I’m getting itchy for some other Dead ) I’ve tried to hit those shows multiple times.
    5/13 was one, and another first time show.
    I thought it was a mostly well played show, especially considering it was another cold outdoor show.
    Loved JG joking about a movie and playing drive ins lol
    The PITB seemed a little different, and awesome! Oh, loved Pig making Europe sounding police sirens on the organ during the first spacey part of TOO, another beauty. Nice how their starting to work He’s Gone into the flow of the set.
    Don’t have my info here, but believe this might be the first show without a Good Lovin, which no offense, but I am getting burnt on. Have really been enjoying the other stuff, especially Hurts Me Too and Mr Charlie! And I need to learn the rest of the words to ChinaTown Shuffle as I can’t get the chorus outta my head lol.
    In fact slightly light on the grease, perhaps the chilly cold and being on the road, or maybe time limits? This show was a little shorter by E72 standards, more like a “normal” Dead show.
    Wonder if that was due to having to get back on the road, the cold, or…?
    Overall another great show, though if hard pressed I don’t think I’d include in top five or whatnot…
    Kudos to them though in spite of being less than ideal circumstances and this far into the tour etc

    Oh, I think the repetitiveness and lack of certain songs was totally by design.
    Always good to have as many good versions of songs to attempt to choose from. Nothing worse than wanting a certain song badly but only having a so so version…
    They had all those new songs they wanted to get out, or try to, so I can fully understand not doing too many other recently released songs.
    Making the album was a big part of the tour and after hating their studio stuff versus the great live albums, they were trying to make an album, but live in front of grooving people. Same sorta MO they did with In The Dark. Kinda surprises me they didn’t use this approach more often since it obviously worked so well for them.
    And perhaps unknown to some, but even though they played all tracks live, they did go back and clean up and/or sweeten some things in the studio afterwards, so really a sorta highbred album. Same with Skullfuck.
    Ok, on to 5/16/72 and a world radio broadcast!
    Onward!

  • 1stshow70878
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    Bickershaw 5-7-72

    Just started Bickershaw and it occurred to me that 12 shows into the tour there weren't all that many songs in the setlists from either Workingman's or American Beauty. A quick look to verify only found Sugar Mag and Truckin' from Beauty (whoops found a Brokedown too) and five out the eight from Workingman's with two of those played maybe once or twice in the tour. I knew going in to the full EU72 tour I was in for a lot of repetition in the setlists and having glanced at them beforehand saw the order of songs or placements were also similar, i.e. Casey Jones to end many a first set. So maybe knowing they were doing the album they did so many of the same ones to get a better shot at getting one that would be just exactly perfect for the album, more to choose from. Seems a bit opposite to their usual format of no format or you get what feels right that night. These shows are certainly not carbon copies by any means and I'm not complaining at all but just wanted to explore why they all sound a bit the same. Clearly some doing them all in a row impressions happening but not burnout at all. They are all just too good!
    Cheers

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Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.
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Must be some Bobbie vocal dyslexia lol

6/29/76 Another fine one
8/6/82 Nice clear sound. Definitely need to dig deeper into 82 this year, and 92, I’m sure I’ll hit enough 72 without extra attention…82 was kinda a lost year as I was old enough to get around more, but roadieing all the time.

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That was a great show. She joined Jerry (or vice versa?) for a tune or 2. They traded guitar licks for a bit until Bonnie did the "I'm not worthy" bow to Jerry. I remember they touched foreheads - sweet moment. I'll be seeing her perform in a couple months.

I also met her around that time backstage at the Oakland Coliseum. She was with Jane Fonda, who was dressed head to toe in black leather (wow!). Jane was a bit stand-offish, Bonnie was quite friendly. While we were talking, Bear came over and tried to sell us some jewelry. I'm familiar with his enamel stealie pendants, but I'm pretty sure he was peddling one made of sapphires and rubies for $5000 - unless I imagined that. Wish I had the dough back then!

EDIT: Oops...meant to post this on the 41 page

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3/24/93: once again I’ve been nicely surprised by a 93 show!
Thanks (again) to Vguy for another great pick.
Way back when I had pretty much written 93 off “worst year I went to” and other short sighted nonsense.
But in the past year or so I’ve probably heard a half dozen shows and enjoyed them all. So I’ll have to poke around.

But first, since no new pick, I’m going to catch up with 12/30/78 since I’ve never read this one?
Stay warm folks, minus 9 here this morning!

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Anybody win yet Bolo?

What is on tap for today?

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I was caught up once.. not long ago. Working my way through the last couple picks. Plus.. I fit in the second show from DaP 18 which makes it 7/16 and 7/17/76. An interesting twofer.

I hear you Oro.. it's full on winter here too. Fortunately, we do winters here.. how does that phrase go? (and loving it).

I noticed I have not converted the shows I am behind on into my digital world yet. Just got back from a morning and afternoon skiing, no school here today. I'm friggin' freezing, gonna warm up in the tub which means I am grabbing something I already have in my digital cannon. I'm in the mood for 74, we will see what comes out when I rattle my device. Happy trails all.. How about a DVikes pick for tonight into tomorrow?

Oh, as for the contest.. the only shows that come to mind are far too obvious, they don't follow the bolo patterns. I'm going to have to ponder this later today.

Edit: I just got some random buy some wine email. This was the first item on the list: Ausone 2005 1.5L 6 pack owc ~ 1 @ $31,362 WA100, WS100.
So six 1.5 L bottles for just over $31k, just over $5k a bottle. (note: I'm reaching for an IPA).

That’s a lot of wine. And pricey too, at least in my wine world.

One summer Friday night when I was 17 I drank 3 bottles of Boone’s Farm and then 2 cans of beer.
What a stupid teenager……

Pricey is right.. Ausone is a first growth Bordeaux. Still, I bet you me and a third wheel could kill the whole lot in a big weekend. The accompanying weekend long hangover would come at the price tag of an entry level Lexus or Mercedes.

Perhaps in my next life.. I plan to come back as a philanthropic aristocrat that avoids responsibility at all costs. In the mean time the closest I can come is to listen to one of the PNW shows with Money Money and pop the cork of any number of bottles that us mere mortals can afford.

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I like where this is going Jim. How about 5/17/74?

How you all are well out East. Tough storm.

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We were too far inland to be affected by the storm.. the folks that live on the coast and up through Boston got clobbered. We've been getting hit almost daily by lake effect show here.. two to four inches most days but today looks to be sunny. Great skiing, both downhill and cross country. I've been fortunate to be working half days the last week or so and getting out for the other half to take advantage of it. Today it looks like I will be hanging out with 5/17/74. That China Rider is sublime.. the Portland one is also excellent. Wow wow stuff, love 1974 GD. Thanks DVikes.

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Negatory on the contest guesses. Not much interest, only 4 or 5 responses. Maybe I'll just start mailing stuff to random folks on here.

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It is a tough one Bolo. I only have one guess left so I will send it your way soon, unless you want to give us another clue?

Still waiting on my #41, scheduled for Friday. It seems like a long time since #40 came out.

You all have yours?

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All I can think of are Bananas in fishnet stockings and I know that's not it. Hence, my zero guesses. Now I'm just trying to clear my thoughts of sultry bananas.

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but didn't want to swing and miss on my guesses. I am truly stumped. The obvious is Jamacia, but it can't be that easy... no way.

Not sure if any of you heard of the anarchist cookbook or not.. it might be illegal now, but years ago you could get it. There was a section on things you can make at home when the weed runs out. Morning Glory seeds, woodrose, etc.
One of their suggestions said if you dry the flakey white substance off a banana peel and smoke it, it will get you high. Just cutting my teeth early on in high school, I tried it. It did not work. 30+ years later I read this was a complete hoax that someone made up just to fill some pages. That's my bananas story. A little embarrassing, but on the bright side I only tried it once and immediately realized it was dud. There was supposedly the recipe for making acid there too, but you had to start with lysergic acid and it did not mention how you get to this point. The book was a bit wacky, not recommended.

I bet that has nothing to do with the clue at hand, but who knows.. maybe it does.

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i looked at the clue and it was "wow - no idea". Did sort of seem like a Ken Nordine word jazz concept as seen at the Rosemont Horizon as suggested by someone on the DaP41 thread

just now put together a rather out there logic thread pointing to another (seemingly) plausible answer (at least in my alleged mind)

as for ketchup, I'm just not cutting the mustard nowadays. Did get a listen to Oro's 1st 1/20/79 and really liked what I heard. After Bolo's mention of 10/6 I reached for another fall '77 - DaP 25 Broome County. That Fall tour really has grown on me last several years (looking at you DeKalb). And then pushed the time machine ahead a few months to DaP 15 Nashville - been awhile and it was awesome. Then 12/3/79 this weekend during my drive time - yeah it was my second show and I really really like it. among the many reasons the Jack-a roe is my favorite electric version outside of those first few Spring '77. and speaking of those early versions #2759 reached Red Rock country yesterday and spinning Disc 1. Really happy to start a new DaP season!

Onward!

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Hey, rockers!!!

Pick of the day: St Louis February 2, 1970

Back in the distant past of taping, a small soundboard chunk of this circulated, and was cherished. I believe the Cumberland and most of the big jam, including the very fine Dark Star. It brings back fond and funny memories……….

In my big taping daze, around 1980-1981, a young deadhead I knew in an adjacent town (Lincoln, Massachusetts) hosted a high school radio program where he played lots of live Dead on Sunday mornings. He invited me on and this Star was one of the things I brought with me. In the middle of it, one of his friends—who had just woken up and tuned in----called in and said, “What the hell is THAT?!!!”. LOL, mind blown, that’s how fine that Dark Star is.

A very interesting example of the Dead’s continual early evolution. It appears that this was a “rediscovered/returned tapes” deal that led to its official release in May 2013, nicely coupled with the Fillmore shows of December 20 and 21, 1969. This is another underrated and underappreciated official release. Dust it off and revisit it…………

Sweet!!!

Doc
True love is like ghosts, which everyone talks about and few have seen…..

Right there with you Doc. I got the Dark Star > Stephen > Mason's/ segment summer of '82 (pretty darn early in my trading days.) A killer primal Dark Star that had me from the get-go. And the fact that the tape cut off in the middle of a ripping Mason's (my first of course) just added to the mystique. DaP 6 was one of those Holy Grail shows (can there be more than one Grail?) to have released in its entirety all cleaned up and fresh. Didn't seem possible. And the material from 12/20 and 12/21/69 is excellent also. One of my favorite releases from the series and always surprising to me it isn't on more top DaP lists.

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So after an enjoyable romp yesterday with 5/17/74, (this box is still a bit of a stranger?), I hit 5/25/77 for the first time.
Full disclosure, I didn’t sit down and give 5/25 the “full treatment”, so I probably missed “it”?
Another fine GD show, especially if you dig white bread, but personally I enjoyed the 74 much more, even with all its flaws. Notice I didn’t say I didn’t like 77, just I really liked the 74 more! Feel I have to qualify or face the shitwinds.
For whatever reason, if I think about 77 at all, 2/26 is what pops in my head? Something about that one?

But I wanted to hit 5/25, it needed to be hit, and thought it appropriate before I roll DaP 41 today (received yesterday).
And since I’m being all “meh”, add 2/2/70, though I never met a Dark Star I didn’t like ; )
Cool Masons, and a LL that didn’t go on too long, and hey, it’s got a Cumberland! Lol.
Another good, but not mind blowing release, imho. 70 is a weird year for me. Has some amazing jams etc, but then there’s the “other” stuff I.e., the opening Casey Jones just as one example. But hey that’s just me, don’t let my tastes spoil yer buzz! Lol it’s just a extremely transitional period, for good or for Ill, between the 68 into early 69 primal psychedelic majesty that we all? seem to love (hey that’s one thing most of us agree on lol) until they come out the other side a relatively full on lean mean 71 bar band R&R machine!
Like most of the bigger transitions, there were a shit ton of new, classic songs, spun differently, and the whole historical perspective etc, and that’s interesting and all, but with limited time and so much Dead, 70 isn’t a big go to for moi. But again, no reason to get excited, he kindly spoke, just my two centavos. Party on Garth!

Bluecrow, always a pleasure! Thanks for the Jazz info, I know OF these things, but I don’t KNOW them YET!
Glad you liked my baptism, weird little show. Bet it would of been good to be electric, except the ride home from pops would of been a whole lot weirder than it already was LOL.
Always thought parts of that one and 1/10/79 would make a good Dave’s, but don’t think they have the right tapes : (

Glad Jim’s enjoying winter, hope all you Nor’ Easterners are ok and doing the same and making the best of it?
Stay warm, be safe, roll Dead!
Ok, few preparations and then ONWARD, to 5/26/77!

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70s

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70’s fishnet stockings?

I’m confused…..

Or as Roger Waters sang,
Got to admit
I’m a little bit confused

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Great pick.

Where do I start? Casey Jones opener, which makes a statement. Love the early Mama Tried's. There's an honesty that permeates these early versions of this song. Then it gets real with Hard to Handle and Cold Rain and Snow. Great crunchy versions where Jerry's tone and efforts lead the way. Another honesty moment with a clairvoyant Black Peter and a youthful Jerry belting out some hurt. It's got a Cumberland.

I listened to this uninterrupted with headphones nursing my wounds.. with the exception of some low-level hiss that you really cannot escape with these old analogue tapes the sound is really spectacular, what a great venue for acoustics, but the real deal is in the Dark Star>St. Stephen>Masons Children. Wowwy.

I have listened to this many times over the last 8 years, but it never grabbed me. I knew it was just me so kept quiet. Tonight it shined. Thanks Doc

Oh.. finished 5/17/74 today too. Another show that just picks up steam with each additional listen. The first set was typical early 74. I'm a sucker for the Race is On. The Jack Straw Dire Wolf was nice and an interesting Row Jimmy PIT to close off the first set, but the magic really started happening at China Cat in the Second Set. Currently my favorite China Rider, it's that good.. and the Truckin' through China Doll to close the show is simply classic. Another stunning recording, so two back to back great picks that poked through the fog and spoke to me. (helps to more or less have the day off to partake).

Thanks all.. I feel sorry for the next to toss out a pick. How could you one-up these last two?

Bananas I say. Bananas.

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Yes, still enjoy this show and of course it has a Money Money. Bob seems to stumble a bit in Truckin, but hey not too surprising.

Ugh, Covid has hit our household.

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And I really don't have enough to say about that China Rider, words do not do it justice. Shut your eyes, crank it up and float freely about the universe.

Sorry to hear dvikes. Everyone my house got it except me, I somehow escaped. So I fed and cleaned for a couple weeks. Fortunately, symptoms were very mild. Everyone's getting this gdamed thing.

Been busy.. tonight I will focus on our new clues.

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in my quest to download all DSO, found an exceptional Eyes. It's been 20 minutes of bliss.

if interested, 2005-06-06

enjoy

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In reply to by JimInMD

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Let us know if you figure it out Jim. I am stumped and out of guesses.

Glad you all made it through Jim, we are hoping for the best over here.

Still waiting for #41.

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Sending good vibes and best wishes to our friends in MN. In our house, this variant was soft on pain and quick on recovery.. Hoping this is true in your case.

One way or another.. this darkness got to give. If you all have it.. I suspect the person feeling the strongest has to cook/clean and fend off the ill intended neighbors and meddling cops. Guessing that is you. Keep the faith man.. . Again, wishing the best for you and your family and sending good vibes and happy healing your way. Perhaps pick a show without a Black Peter and you should be fine. Might I suggest a godly Eyes of the World. You are not alone.

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Thanks Jim, appreciate it!

We have to make it through. No choice.

Anyone have a good pick for today with a long Eyes?

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Been playing it in the car this week. Long Playing in the Band as I drove in this morning in the Cold Rain and Snow.
Believe that there was an Eyes before Playing, but that was driving home yesterday and I have already forgot.

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For the adults in your house, kill the virus with beer. Can’t be any less effective than horse dewormer can it? Certainly more fun.

Sounds good to me. Another fine performance in Madison WI, and of course part of Dick's #18. Which is also where we started with Bolo's first pick.

Thanks all.

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Rollin!
First time for this one too!
Not snowing today, but definitely cold: - 13 yesterday, -11 today, brrrrrrr
One of only 4 Dickus Pickus I don’t have yet. Real Gone has been spitting em out fairly quick, but still a few short. All good things in all good time…

Oh, and 41 still too new, so I’ll just say that if your a 77 Freak your gonna really like it!

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Today is to deconstruct Dicks Picks 18 Road Trips 1.2 and reconstruct into complete shows with the best possible recordings in the correct order.

I'm so glad for the most part they are releasing complete shows.

In a way I look at Lemieux in a similar way as a long time parter. I don't always like what he does, but we have been working on him for years to give us what want and not to do stupid shit.. complete shows, no jarring filler, cool it a bit with the audience mics and crowd noise into releases, etc. we have so much time and effort investing into breaking him in.. it would be a shame to have to break in a newbie and start all over.

No chop jobs please Dave and how about a primal release or two?

2/3/78, I'm all in and this time the complete show not the composite release of yesteryear.

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In addition to de-wormer, I hear drinking your own pee works now, too. Of course, NOT the dedicated vaccine.

Have times ever been more bizarre?

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I finally got John Deere green lawnmowers as one of the reCRAPTCHA tractor images.
I kid you not. I screen shotted it and am going to email it to you.

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Love it.

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Just got reCRAPTCHA tractors on the DaP41 page and 2 of the 3 images were green John Deere farm tractors.

Jim,
I think its a sign that you need to upgrade the time machine to a more powerful model.
There may be a major job looming and only the upgrade will get the job done. Maybe it’s so you can carry passengers that will be needed to get the job done.
I suspect that the job has something to do with the Vault.

What's it a sign of if you get bicycles? ;-)

Ok then, what's it a sign of if you get signs? :-)

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Everywhere a sign…
But what would be the answer, to the answer man?

Yep, diggin 41

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How did Bolo get my pin?

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15 years
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It doesn't appear that anyone is going to guess this one, so:

Fishnets Banana

Bananafish Garden, a 70s concert venue, used to be known as the 46th Street Rock Palace in Brooklyn, the borough the NBA's Nets call home. The Dead played 4 shows there - 11/11-14/1970.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program...

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17 years 6 months

In reply to by bolo24

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I wouldn't have ever figured that out. Nice one, Bolo. It was fun to play along.

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8 years 1 month

In reply to by bolo24

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Okay, you stumped us Bolo, definitely a tough one. I was way off.

You gets the booby prize?

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13 years 5 months

In reply to by DeadVikes

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We might have guessed it. I can only speak for myself, but this one made me not think, which I guess is the purpose of a good puzzle or riddle. If it was easy, it wouldn't be fun and the reward would seem cheap.

Thanks Bolo, don't give up us.

Time for another pick over here?

Looking at 4/2/89 from the Igloo in Pittsburgh. Included on Download Series #9.

I believe Oroborous could provide some insight on this show.