What's Inside:
7 Previously Unreleased Complete Shows On 20 Discs
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/09/71
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/10/71
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/17/72
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/18/72
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/19/72
Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/29/73
Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/30/73
Sourced from tapes recorded by Rex Jackson, Owsley "Bear" Stanley, and Kidd Candelario
Mastered in HDCD by Jeffrey Norman
Restoration and Speed Correction by Plangent Processes
Individually Numbered, Limited Edition of 13,000
Steamboats and BBQ, ice cream cones and Mardi Gras - are you ready to laissez les bons temps rouler with the "gateway" to the Grateful Dead? Meet us, won't you, in St. Louis for seven complete and previously unreleased Dead concerts that capture the heart of the band's affinity for the River City.
LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73 is a 20CD set featuring five shows from the Fox Theatre - December 9 and 10, 1971; October 17-19, 1972; and two from the Kiel Auditorium - October 29 and 30, 1973.
The seven shows in the collection span slightly less than two years, but they represent some of the best shows the Grateful Dead played during some of its peak tours. The music tells the story of a band evolving, changing from one sound to another seamlessly, precipitated – in large part – by significant personnel changes in the Dead’s lineup.
The two 1971 shows feature the original Grateful Dead lineup plus newcomer Keith Godchaux on piano. This version of the band would hold together for the next six months as the Dead embarked upon its Europe ’72 tour. By the time the Dead returned to the Fox Theatre less than a year later, they were without Pigpen, who’d played his final show with the Dead at the Hollywood Bowl on June 17, 1972. A year after the exceptional Fox 1972 shows, the Dead came back to St. Louis, but played the much larger Kiel Auditorium, touring behind the release of WAKE OF THE FLOOD, which came out just two weeks before.
All told, the band played 60 different songs during these shows highlighted by blazing romps through “Beat It On Down The Line” and “One More Saturday Night” and wistful takes on “Row Jimmy” and “Brokedown Palace” (whose lyrics give the collection its name). Meanwhile, the copious jamming ebbed and flowed like the mighty Mississippi River on multiple voyages through “The Other One” and “Dark Star.” Naturally, the band paid tribute to one of its favorite rock and rollers and one of St. Louis’ biggest stars by playing Chuck Berry songs at every show in the collection, including Pigpen galloping through “Run Rudolph Run.”
Each show has been restored and speed corrected using Plangent Processes with mastering by Jeffrey Norman. The collection comes in a slipcase with artwork by Liane Plant and features an 84-page hardbound book as well as other Dead surprises. To set the stage for the music, the liner notes provide several essays about the shows, including one by Sam Cutler, the band’s tour manager during that era, and another by Grateful Dead scholar Nicholas G. Meriwether, among others.
Due October 1st, LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73, is limited to 13,000 individually numbered copies and available exclusively from Dead.net.
swag, etc.
I think the Keystone Napkin came with the Pure Jerry Keystone Release (per the DeadDisc website). The DeadDisc website also has the information about the film strip cutting under it's entry for the GD Movie Extended version. Keep it coming, we're here to help.
P.S. Oh Man, Sorry Jim that one hurts...
Keystone Napkin
Unfortunately.. 98%+ of the Keystone Napkins disappeared during the great TP scarcity of 2020.
A Travesty.
TP scarcity.
That was priceless. Made my day. Here's a head scratcher. I once received an envelope with replica tickets. I think some box set was delayed and, I'm assuming, they were sent to customers to calm us down. I have no memory as to which box it was and I'm hard pressed to remember when this happened.
Thanks for the heads up on the DD site. I'll do some homework.
replica tickets
I remember that. It escapes me now which set they came with. However, at the time I made a running list of tickets everyone scored and was able to facilitate several swaps. I think they may have actually been real tickets and most came from the 90's. Although, I vaguely recall someone getting one from 1984 or something. I'll dig around, because I generally keep the swag with it's parent release.
-edit- Looks like the tickets were included with 30 Trips Around The Sun Box Set (aka 'The Porch Crusher')
-edit b- Looks like there was also a backstage pass included with the set as well. The thread is still accessible through the search function (search for '30 trips'). In fact, if you jump to page 227 of the thread you'll see the running list I made of everyone's gets. I was trying to facilitate trades. If you look for the entry about what you had, you should be able to reconcile what you have in your hand versus what you got back in Oct. 2015. :-)
Willy T & 30 trips
I read this stuff usually first thing in the morning with my coffee. Usually at this point my contact lens (bi-focal) haven't cleared and settled in yet so I get a lot of blurry. I read your post this morning about the "The Porch Crusher".
Because my contacts weren't quite right yet I thought it said "Pooch Crusher", which seemed appropriate also, read again later and realized it was porch! Ok, quite a difference:-)
Hey Now Dennis
Nah, I wouldn't say that. I'm an animal fan, despite almost having had my nads removed by one two years ago. Damn thing got me twice. Got a chunk of my inner thigh before literally biting me in the ass and tearing my pants off. Sheesh, all I wanted to do was go in and use the restroom. What a surprise that was! Dogs can be very territorial.
Chuck Berry said 'Never get bit by the same dog twice'. Unfortunately, I failed at that in the course of about 10 seconds.
At least my pants were off so I could conveniently relieve myself after kicking it and escaping out the door. :-)
Talk about having your life flash before your eyes. I am so glad I still have my balls.
Wilfred-Swag Tickets
Funny I don't have any tickets with my 30 Trips, just a book and a scroll, but I do recall getting a little packet of tickets and back stage passes with one of my Spring 90 boxes. Don't have time to check which one right now.
Hey Now Nitecat
It was definitely with 30 Trips because I made a running tally of what everyone was getting in order to facilitate trades, of which there were several. I'll have to hop over to the show page to see if you reported any contemporaneously with the release itself back in 2015. I'll report back in a bit. Maybe you were snubbed? There were replica tickets with Spring 90 and also the Warlocks box, too if memory serves. But, the 30 Trips ones were authentic I believe, not replicas.
-edit- I just checked it out and indeed nitecat you did not report receiving any tickets or passes at the time. Scroll ahead to page 227 (yes it's pretty deep into the thread) to see the list. Just type in '30 Trips' into the search bar.
Wilfred-Tickets
Wilfred, I checked and did find ticket facsimiles in the Spring 1990 box, which I was referring to. After your post, I checked my 30 Trips box and didn't find anything. Then my girlfriend checked and found a ticket and a pass inside the book. I am reporting late, but I got a10/30/1991 ticket and a 6/16/1993 backstage pass. Probably just forgot about them. Thanks for shaking up the memory cells!
As seen on 30 trips thread p. 227
has/wants update
jcure : love to trade for 6/21/93 pass - my first and only show. Will update when mine arrives. djmac520 : 10-27-91 If anyone wants to trade that ticket PM me. has 6-21-93 pass (not for trade) and ticket 12-12-94 redemption searcher: I've got 10/30/91 Oakland ticket (only $22.50-boy those were the days) and 8/21/93 Eugene backstage pass. Went to all the '94 Eugene shows, and strangely enough don't even remember them playing there in '93 until I saw this. Saw someone has 5-15-93 Vegas, not only went to that but it was my birthday, so I would trade for that. Was also in 4th row in front of Vince on his b-day on 2-21-95 and would trade for that. TERRAPIN_ROB Has Ticket 10-27-1991 Oakland Coliseum Arena Pass 5-22-1993 Shoreline Amphitheatre tysonupina: Would love the '93 Eugene and 10/27/91 igrateful: has 10-30-91 and Deer Creek '93 pass Automaticslim: 2/21/95 Delta Center Salt Lake City pass ready for trade.12/12/94 Oakland Coliseum General Admission ticket not for trade TheDude77: has ticket: Oct. 27, 1991, Oakland and pass: May 15, 1993, Las Vegas hallstallion2005: has ticket stub: 5/27/93 Cal Expo Sacramento CA and backstage pass: 3/22/95 Coliseum Arena Charlotte NC hatch655: has Ticket from 5/27/93 and Pass from 8/22/93 g1u2i3: has Ticket: 1991-10-31 (Oakland Coliseum, Oakland, CA) and Pass: 1993-06-22 (Deer Creek Music Center, Noblesville, IN) BertDert: has Stub: 5/27/93 Sacramento, CA and Pass: 3/22/95 Charlotte, NC Serpent of Dreams: has Ticket: 10/30/91 Oakland Coliseum Arena, Oakland CA and Pass: 8/21/93 Autzen Stadium, Eugene OR EGroesbeck: has ticket Cal Expo Amphitheatre, May 27, 1993 and Pass 2/20/95 Salt Lake City, UT KYTrips: Ticket was from 10/27/1991 - Oakland Coliseum. Backstage Pass was from 6/21/1993 - Deer Creek Univax: has Ticket May 27 93 Cal Expo / Backstage pass June 13, 93 Freedom Hall Louisville KY. mbarilla: has Ticket 3/26/95 Atlanta and Pass 8/22/93 Eugene, OR Shakespeare: has a ticket for 5/27/93 Cal Expo and a pass for 3/22/95 Charlotte. Anttheknee: has ticket for Oct. 28, 1991 and backstage pass for June 16, 1993. MorningSun: has 10/30/91 ticket; 6/21/93 pass. Diggey: has pass from 5/23/93 shoreline amphitheater and ticket is 12/12/94 Oakland. kindagrae: has ticket 5/27/93 Cal Expo Ampitheatre, Sacramento, CA and Backstage pass: "In Attendance" 3/22/95 Charlotte LetitShine: has ticket for 10/27/1991, Oakland Coliseum. b/s pass for 6/9/1993 Palace of Auburn Hills anatexis22: has ticket 5/27/93 Cal Expo Ampitheatre, Sacramento, CA backstage pass is 3/26/95 The Omni, Atlanta, GA D_MCK : has ticket 10/30/91 Gen Admission Oakland Coliseum Arena Back Stage Pass 8/21/93 Autzen Stadium Eugene Oregon Mr. Jack Straw: has ticket: 10/28/91 and Backstage pass: 8/22/93 chitownrider: has Ticket 10/27/91 Oakland Backstage Pass 6/6/93 Giants Stadium Born Cross Eyed... : ticket: 10/30/91 Oakland Coliseum Arena and backstage pass: 6/19/93 Soldier Field, Chicago IL kevinbrandon: has MAY 27,1993 TICKET and THE BACKSTAGE PASS IS FROM JUNE 15, 1993 Atticstrophic : has Ticket: 10/30/91. and Pass: 2/25/95. brobb: has Ticket from May 27, 1993 Cal Expo and Backstage pass from March 26, 1995 The Omni johnmd750: has 12/12/94 Oakland for ticket, and 2/21/95 Salt Lake for backstage pass. wjonjd: has ticket 10-30-91 and pass for SLC 2/21/95 (NFT, yet) chastason: I'd love to trade for Autzen 93 (of the dates I've seen posted so far). Ticket: 10/30/91 Oakland Pass: 6/9/93 Auburn Hills King Harvest: Received the 8/15/86 Park City ticket (not fielding trade offers currently) and a 5/23/93 Shoreline pass. deadyogi51: has Ticket October 30, 1991 Oakland and Pass June 18, 1993 Soldier Field, Chicago seabird17: has Pass - 3/24/95 and Ticket - 12/12/94 Oakland Coliseum SPACEBROTHER: has Ticket - 12/12/94 Oakland and Pass - 2/21/95 Salt Lake City ccmuzik: has Cal Expo 5/27/93 ticket and a pass from Charlotte 95 (3/22/95). Moses Quasar : has ticket 5/27/93 Cal Expo and pass 8/22/93 Autzen deadheadbrewer: got a ticket for 12/08/94, and a pass for 3/23/95 KayakGuy: has Cal Expo 5/27/93 ticket and pass is for 3/22/95 Charlotte rdevil: has 10-27-91 ticket, 6-11-93 pass Born Cross Eyed: ISO: 10/27/91 show ticket. Will trade my 10/30/91 Oakland TICKET. Wants to keep 6/19/93 Soldier Field Pass. corvette1982: has Pass - 1995-02-21 - Salt Lake City, Utah Ticket - 1994-12-12 - Oakland Coliseum Arena - Oakland, California Dennis Wilmot: has Tix - 10/27/91 - Oakland Col BSP - 6/9/93 - Auburn Hill, Michigan jbxpro: Ticket is 1993-05-27, Cal Expo, Sacramento CA; backstage pass is 1995-03-22, Coliseum Arena, Charlotte NC. mrogers: has Backstage pass for Autzen 8/22/93 and the ticket was Cal Expo 5/27/93. boblopes: has Cal Expo 5/27/93 ticket and pass is for 3/22/95 Charlotte kenco: has Ticket for 5/27/93 Cal Expo & BSP 8/22/93 Autzen akpon9: has Ticket: Oakland Coliseum Oct. 30, 1991 Backstage Pass: Eugene Aug. 21, 1993 skeebe: has Ticket - 1991-10-27 Oakland Coliseum Backstage - 1993-06-11 - Buckeye direwulf: has Backstage pass: 06-18-93 Soldier Field and Ticket: 10-30-91 Oakland Coliseum abrazen: has 3/23/95 Charlotte pass 12/8/94 Oakland ticket WarEagleRK: inserts were the pass for Philly 3/17/95 and the ticket for Oakland 12/8/94 Sixtus_: has Ticket: Cal Expo, 5/27/93 and Backstage Pass: Delta Center 2/19/95 anyone is interested in a swap, PM me... Mojave: has Ticket: October 30, 1991- Oakland Coliseum, Pass: August 22, 1993 Autzen Stadium, Eugene Oregon robshead: has Ticket 10/30/91 Oakland, CA; Backstage Pass 8/22/93 Eugene spascarella: has Ticket 10/27/91 Oakland CA. Backstage pass is 06/08/93 Auburn Hills, MI natas2210: has Ticket Stub: 10/27/91 Oakland Backstage Pass: 5/16/93 Las Vegas Zuckfun: has ticket 12/08/1994 Oakland Coliseum Arena,CA backstage pass 03/23/95 Coliseum Arena Charlotte, NC Open to Trades dedhed76: has Ticket stub 10-30-91 and Pass 8-22-93 jonothan lake: has ticket Oakland Coliseum 28th October, 1991,Backstage pass Eugene, Oregon,22nd August,1993. ottihead: has ticket 10-28-1991 and pass 02-19-1995 brian hahne: has ticket - 5/27/93 General Admission and Backstage pass - 3/22/95 lowspark75: has Ticket: Oct 30, 1991 Oakland and Pass: June 9, 1993 Auburn Hills Alain: has Ticket: October 28, 1991. and Pass: March 23, 1995. Dancin' Rick Chinacat: has Ticket for 10-27-91 Oakland, a show I was at and Pass 6-8-93 Auburn Hills. mjzeee: has Ticket: 10/30/91. Backstage pass: 6/8/93 drshakedown74: has Ticket stub 10/30/91 Pass- 8/22/93 Open to Trades on ticket only dead tanuki: has ticket 10/27/91 Oakland Coliseum, and pass 6/8/93 Palace of Auburn Hills. Roland Bruynesteyn: has ticket October 30, 1991, bsp February 25 shawndog: has Ticket: 10-27-1991 and Pass: 5-23-1993 JeffSmith: has Cal Expo 5/27/93 and Pass: Charlotte Coliseum 3/22/95 birdynumnumz: has TICKET: October 30, 1991 Oakland and PASS: June 8, 1993 Auburn Hills ivhs72: has Oct. 30, 1991 Oakland Coliseum, and the backstage pass is from the May 15, 1993 Silver Bowl. Would like to trade either my pass or ticket for the same to any show in Oregon muleskinner_blues: has Ticket 10/30/91 Oakland Coliseum and Pass 8/22/93 Eugene, OR Vguy72: has ticket Oakland Coliseum 10.27.91 and Backstage is Deer Creek 6.21.93 DeadJeffinPDX: has Ticket from 10/27/91 - Oakland Coliseum Arena and Backstage pass from Auburn Hills - 6/8/93 NWScarletFireGuy: has a Ticket from 10/27/91 Oakland, Pass 6/8/93 Auburn Hills Frampton: has ticket 10/27/91 Oakland Coliseum, and pass is 6/11/93 at the Buckeye Lake antonjo: has ticket Oakland Coliseum, Oct 30, '91 and Stage pass is Vegas Silver Bowl, May 15, '93. snafu: has ticket Oakland Coliseum, Oct 30, '91 and pass not disclosed (yet) Rambler: has 10/27/91 stub and 6-11-93 Buckeye Music Center pass. snowball: has Ticket: Oakland Coliseum October 30, 1991 and Pass: Deer Creek June 22, 1993 Willysin4wd: has 8/22/93 Eugene Pass, and Oakland Coliseum Space Head 10/30/91 ticket (i think i went to this show!) Europe61: has ticket 10-28-1991 Oakland and backstage pass 8-22-1993 Eugene ozdh: has 10/28/91 oakland - ticket, 6/16/93 freedom hall, louisville - backstage pass johnny361: has Ticket 12/8/94 Oakland and pass 3/24/95 Charlotte drsox: has 2 backstage passes for June 16, 1993 at Freedom Hall, Louisville AND 2 tickets for October 28, 1991 at Oakland Coliseum Arena jerboo22: has Ticket: 28 October 1991, Oakland Coliseum, Oakland and Pass: 16 June 1993, Freedom Hall, Louisville masonskids: has ticket 10/30/91, pass from 8/21/93. Southwest: has Ticket 28 Oct 91 Oakland 22.50 and Backstage Pass 19 Feb 95 Salt Lake Gary Farseer: has Ticket 10/27/91 Oakland and Pass 6/11/93 Buckeye Lake Arno: has Ticket: Oakland Coliseum October 30, 1991 and Backstage Pass: Coliseum Arena, Charlotte March 23, 1995 nitecat: has ticket 10/30/91 Oakland and Pass Freedom Hall 6-16-93 Big Brownie: has ticket: 10/27/91 Oakland and backstage pass: 6/16/93 Louisville
Holy flashback Wilfred!....
....lots of cool usernames I recognize there.
October 13th, 2015 was a good day. The day I got my Boxilla.
Holy Flashback is right
.. I don't think Mr. Rogers approves of our ticket trading culture. He's flipping us the bird.
What Amazes Me
Is that this thread is more or less dead.. yet the box set is not sold out and this has got to be one of the most far out excellent box sets to grace my front porch.
I get the feeling there will be much remorse when you can't buy this here and prices begin to reset on EBay.
I got an email from EBay this week asking if I was interested on 5/4/72 for somewhere around $450 used.. that was the original cost of the entire box set. Granted, this is not as good but the days of FW69 and E72 travelers box are behind us now.
Seriously, folks on the fence, get this. It's the real deal.
As you were
Ebay Prices
Seriously, does anyone ever pay those crazy prices for DaP's or any other releases? I look and laugh when I see those. I've only bought one (DaP #10, with the Bonus disc for $50). It's still my favorite DP. To move on, I really loved the Road Trip series. I only have 2, but they are the killers. Valentine's Day show from the Carousel in "68 and Big Rock Pow Wow, which is on this week's Tapers Section. So nice to hear China not go into Rider, among other surprises.
Three is the Charm
I've just completed my third go-round of this box set: once on the big JBLs, once on the house system with the HDCD player, and once with headphones on the Marantz player...a unique experience each time. Two thumbs up! For all those responsible for making "Listen to the River" happen, I say "Way to go"!
And, yes, I can't believe this is not sold put.
BTW, inside my 30 Trips book I found:
ticket: 10/27/91 Oakland
backstage pass: 6/16/93 Louisville
Europe '72 vs. Light Into Ashes
Listened to these two on vinyl today and the sound is very different. The LIA is way more bass and mid focused and noticeably a bit lacking in treble. The LIA thread talks about the sound quality at more length. Hadn't listened to Europe '72 in many years and the sound was startlingly good on my copy from around 1975. The high end was so spacious, clear, and well defined it really surprised me. Lacking in bass by comparison but I hope they reissue that vinyl this year and balance that out. Maybe some of the recording aficionados here can clue me in as to why the totally different sound from these recordings from the same era.
Cheers!
E72 vs. 10/18/72
The obvious answer is E72 was recorded using a 16-track professional recording system inside a truck they carried with them from venue to venue and 10/18 was recorded to stereo via two-track reel to reels. So starting with a 16-track professional master tape allows one to change the mix vs. a stereo master where the mix was already condensed to stereo at the time the recording was made (so you can't change the output of the bass or any other instruments/vocals). You can't really alter anything on the two track masters except the volume and some wizardry like compression. With a multi-track you can completely change the mix and the output / location of every instrument, panning the sound, etc. The sky's the limit with a multi-track master.
There's a good bit of low-level hiss on the 10/18 recording. This was recorded by Bear. I have a sneaking suspicion these master reels were played a few times over the years. They just have this flavor of being used a bit which weakens the quality of the master. I'm speculating, I am certainly not in the know here. To me, it still sounds very good and the performance so strong, I am not complaining. I will take the win.
Sorry for the detail, I bet you already knew most of this and to be honest.. I am not a recording aficionado, so I reserve the right to be fall on my face wrong. But this is all I have. Where is One Man when you need him?
Thanks Jim
I thought it might be something like that. That may also explain why folks are discussing a re-release of Europe '72 or a box with some of the other shows from that tour. I've got Rockin' the Rhine and Hundred Year Hall but only on tape, so I'm all for that. I need to revisit some of my old vinyl now that I have improved my main system. I don't ever remember Europe '72 sounding this good through my old amp.
Cheers and thank you.
Jim’s correct,
But the mastering process can also change the overall sound.
This is why so many of the original CDs released after that format came out sound terrible.
It’s a stigma that has unfortunately continued even though they’ve made incredible advances in digital conversion, and stricter coherence to using original master tapes.
They were mastered poorly, especially the A/D conversion, which coupled often with not using the original master tapes, made them sound horrible. Not just CDs, DVDs etc also can be all over the place depending on transfer and what source was used. I’ve seen DVDs that looked better than Blu-ray’s because of this.
There’s a lot you can’t mess with in mastering, but there’s much that can be done too.
I think that’s a lot of why some of the newer releases sound better: Mr Jeffery has had significant time to adjust and perfect the mastering of the recordings. Like Jim says, you can’t re-eq or re-attenuate individual instruments etc on a 2 track, but you can adjust the overall eq, so perhaps that’s why one show from the same run for instance can have different “flavor” like your describing.
Multitracks, besides allowing for individual tweaks: (think Donna turned down to a normal volume with some auto tune) usually do have much more openness or spaciousness. Check out the 71 Capitol shows to see how big a difference there can be!
Oh, tape size and speed make a big difference too. The faster the speed and/or the fatter the tape, the better the frequency response and spaciousness.
One More Comment on Audio
I found this article on dead essays blog spot a while back. It talks about Bear's recording history with the Dead, with quotes from the man himself from his site:
Regarding post-jail-time:
"I came back to a crew that was totally different when I left, and the job that I had been doing was split up amongst three other people, none of whom were willing to yield the territory. I met a lot of resistance in the scene, and after you spend a couple of years locked up, your social adaptability is not very good."
And another comment on '72 in his site:
"I was having some problems with the crew, many of whom had come to work after I had gone, and resented my drive to improve things onstage and with the equipment, which I decided was obsolete for the most part. They preferred to let things stay the same - an attitude I thought was due to simple laziness. The various problems, particularly the one of getting those who did my job while I was away to back off and allow me to return to my work, eventually inspired me to design the Wall of Sound... "
*****************
Also he said about late '72:
Bear recounts a mishap at the Vanderbilt University show on 10/21/72, when Bob Matthews didn't show up: "I had to recruit some of the kids from this college to carry the stuff back. Two of them took half our PA and split. At the next show, there's no PA. I said, 'I sent it to the truck.' A roadie picked me up and threw me into a water cooler."
Apparently some recording equipment was stolen as well, which may account for the rather poor mixes of many of the shows from 10/21 to the rest of the fall tour - either that, or personal squabbles & disputes at the board! (Did anybody listen to the 11/12 mix?) Some shows have missing or incomplete SBDs (from 10/21 to 11/13, though not everything could be in circulation). There are several shows where Bear actually resorted to "audience-taping", making nice room recordings of 10/27, 10/30, and 11/13.
None of our tapes from '73/74 seem to be Bear's work - apparently after the hassles of fall '72, Bear became more a 'behind-the-scenes' equipment tech rather than the on-site sound mixer.
Interesting
Well, interesting, but it puts a damper on the fall 72 box. Hopefully HF isn't on suicide watch. Quick.. take some anti-depressant fungal cure caps.
Boxset 2022
Deadvikes, is that a definite on the next boxset? Wow that would be something
Quite frankly I don't know what he's talking about
The date of demarcation he cites is 10/21, but Vanderbilt sounds good, as does 11/15 Oklahoma, 11/17 Wichita, and 11/19 Houston, 12/12 Winterland, and NYE seem in fine enough shape for me. Hopefilly he was just bitter. Cancel no plans for a Fall '72 box set! But it was interesting to hear about how his role changed.
wayward mix
11/18/72 sounds a bit unbalanced too. Useful for studying Phil's technique though. Hopefully the powers that be aren't put off releasing more Fall 72 if the mixes aren't perfect. Contrary to what was said, we do not always need things to be perfect. Focussing on sound quality can be a bit of a red herring.
Easy Now..
HF, Come down off that ledge. Don't do it. Dave's putting the box together now.
Dave's #11
According to the credits in Dave's #11, 11/17/72, original recordings produced by Bear..So is it his recording or someone else's?
I am assuming the two people he is referring to are Rex Jackson and Kidd Candelario.
Since we had three shows from late 72 in last year's box, I would doubt they would do back to back 72 box sets. They like to mix it up.
All this talk makes me want to listen to the Wichita show today.
Tennessee Jed
Nassau 9/8/73, DaP 38. Someone put Jerry out, he's on fire. The solo that builds up to the crescendo at the end is one of the best.
Re: 9/8/73
What a surprise this show was to me, even though I had listened to it at least once before it was released. It's subtle, yet powerful. I don't credit the sound quality for this, I think I listened to the Kevin Tobin soundboard before the official release, which was not the Full Norman, but it's still excellent. Still, the fact that was an official release with all the pomp and (st. of) Circumstance required me to listen makes a big difference.
KF, you are spot on, Jerry is on fire on this release, but not in a heavy metal way.. it's subtle and amazingly tasteful. His timing is impeccable.
It's an amazing release. I am embarrassed to admit.. I like it more now that it was released than I did before which is not rational. But that's my honest take. It's a keeper.
I guess sunlight on this one moved it up a notch or two on my original take. Which is fine with me.
Off topic re Spring 1990 TOO
Hi good people. Sorry to be off topic, but trying to reach out any and every way I can. Short version, picked up a mint Spring 1990 TOO box from an Oxfam charity shop. It’s charity, so obviously I can’t and won’t return it. However, I have disc 3 of 3/28/90 with a split from the central hub, vertical, ending several mil’ short of the index and data area. I’m 99.999% positive that it’s an original manufacturing issue, the box is literally pristine otherwise, with no evidence whatsoever that it was ever even perused! I’ve just left a begging email with dead.net, but am also reaching out to see if anyone can point me to “other” channels in hopes of fixing the issue…? Please send me a message if you have any pointers… (even if it’s just a good and proven way to repair a disc) or can lead me to an individual who can possibly add that personal touch…
Thanks for your time and forgive the intrusion. Appreciate any help in advance! Be well!
Stephen.
Off-topic 1990 response
Hey Stephen! I don't have that particular set or I'd offer to burn you a copy. And this may be a silly question. But have you tried to rip the CD to your computer? It's possible, if the split doesn't interfere with the CD spinning up in your drive, that you may be able to extract the music and at least archive it and reburn to a CD-R. I've had success ripping CDs with heavy scratches that have compromised the playback. Perhaps this is an option? Good luck to you!
St. Louis box
This box has really been proving it's self lately! The Fox 72 shows especially. That Playing In The Band from 10/17/72 and He's Gone from 10/19/72!! My god man! my most of the time favorite He's Gone is 9/17/72, but boy oh boy, does 10/19 give it one hell of a run!! Wonderful stuff indeed!
im amazed that this box set…
im amazed that this box set still has not sold out. Was listening to it over the weekend and although the shows a readily available to download they are not this stellar of quality. You can hear everything very clear. You can tell some time was spent remixing these gems. All shows represented in this box set are smoking and take the listener from rocking good time dead to far out, installer travel. If you haven't purchased get it while its still available. Its a chunk a change for sure, but man its owe so sweet and is well worth the price. the other items that come with are interesting and cool mementos, but man the music is outrageous. Enjoy!!
Re: Amazed At
I am not surprised at all this has not sold out. Par for the course for non-1977 or 1972 excellent box sets. PNW, July 78 and many others took sometimes years to sell out. It's interesting as a similar quality show from Dave's Picks for a larger numbered run (where are we now, about 25k) sells out in a few hours.
I'll take the win, love 72 and 77 but this period scratches my itch, and these shows are quintessential, simply killer.
Disc 3 of 10/18 is sublime, a single disc worth the price of the whole box. The rest is a bonus.
I could care less if it never sells out or if nobody buys another copy. I purchased this the first day it was offered, made amends to my budget. All was and is good with the world.
Edit: I think I thought the same thing when I got FW69, E72 and Winterland 77. So if you miss out, don't look on EBay and you were warned..
No sell out here
I wonder if the further we go back in time, the less likely a box is to sell out quickly. I get the impression that a lot of people are more interested in shows-or tours for that matter - where they themselves were present , rather than ones from before their time.
I'm not personally like that - although I would say that in the years I did see them-1981 and 1990 - I would be more interested in boxes/releases from the European tours than I would from ones on either side of them. But I would still prefer a box from 1969 or 1972 to one 81 or 90. Possibly because it wasn't seeing them live that turned me on to them, it was listening to the records. Also, to come to the crunch, at this moment in time I prefer the music from 69 and 72 to the later dates.
Incidentally, I don't think there are any long term bands or musicians where I like all their music from across several decades equally. David Bowie, Hawkwind , The Stones and Iggy Pop all come to mind as people whose records I loved during the 60s and 70s - but who I went off to differing degrees as the late 70s- 80s kicked in. It was always the music I liked more than the scene surrounding it. I never felt that by liking a musician/band/style of music that I was joining some kind of club.
Going back to the Dead, I agree that the 3rd disc of 10/18/72 is the epicentre of the St Louis box.
When will this St Louis box sell out?
Who really knows, because I don't. My guess is December 2022. By then we will have another box to buy (if we want it)
However, this St Louis box has some great music in it.
BCE'd for the win
Sounds about right.
I think the boxes take longer to sellout for two reasons.
- Sticker shock
- You get some shows you love and a few tangent shows tossed in just because
I personally really enjoy them, I am not sure there is a stinker in the bunch. It also opens up exposure to things just around the bend that you might not have been shown the light to. Thinking July '78 and the Giants box for example. Really great music and great recordings from shows (with the exception of 7/8/78) that had escaped my attention.
As for price, the cost per disc is not high, they just contain a shlits ton of music.
As for the price tag and shelf space dilemmas, so far I have been able to make peace with it all. Which begs the next question, what box will grace our doorsteps this year?
STL Box is awesome
A download version is available for those who are shelf-space-challenged, so maybe that contributes to the physical Box not yet being sold out.
Wonder if the download version will be discontinued when the Box is sold out.
Dave,
Time to announce the next Box.
Or maybe…
some, the general public, as compared to the hardcore addicts who hang here, have purchased enough of basically, relatively speaking, the same stuff over and over?
Now don’t get yer panties in a bunch, I love this box, the 2 Dark Star discs alone are worth it to ME! And they all sound good, but those 71 shows sound amazing!
But my point is there are a shit ton of Deadheads out there who aren’t us, way more that don’t come hang here, or think about the dead anywhere near as much or how we do.
I agree to all the points you guys have made, but perhaps there are other, additional, bigger factors in why a couple of seemingly instant sell out boxes have languished…burn out and/or satiation?
Just riffing here, but you have to consider that there are folks who feel they have enough (ok, easy now, I know, I know sacrilege lol) of this relatively small window but high concentration of shows?
MAYBE that’s why something like Giants sold out so fast? As I say, I agree with what you guys have said, but maybe some folks would like a little more variety? Just a thought. Doesn’t mean your opinion is not valid (holy shit, spell check tried to change that to Vlad! NO, BAD SPELL CHECK!) just means gulp, some people like more and/or other stuff.
I know I kinda feel this way and I like ALL years! As long as it’s a great show comparatively to its year or tour, I’ll take whatever they’ll give, but I also know I can get burned out on any era if I listen to it too much, but hey, that’s just me.
Once again I’m probably proving I’m Sargent Shultz ; )
Power to the People
Maybe if the boxes aren't selling out so fast it would be a good idea to do a survey - find out what most people would most like. Maybe at this stage of the game there are more and more people who aren't going to buy literally everything - just shows or eras that they particularly like. So if the powers that be knew what the most wanted eras were, they could focus more on those.
That's assuming that people still want big box sets, that is. They might something entirely different.
DaveRock surveys
Funnily enough I remember doing a Survey monkey survey over on LL regarding box sets that people would like to see, a couple of years before the E72 box came out. I included Fox Theatre 72 ( my favourite) but E72 was the clear winner. The general consensus at the time was that it would never happen 😀.
The Dead Sell Out
Jerry sitting in a tub of baked beans!?!?
I think you hit hammer to nail, Oro - it is saturation. Plus, as you pointed out, it is likely more a case with the less hard core Dead Head, in that they may see a certain pattern to these box sets, and just how many “Me And My Uncle” versions does a fan have to own!? For those that are more deeply entrenched in ALL THINGS GRATEFUL DEAD, all the box set releases are worthy of owning. I think DaveRock has an interesting suggestion in going directly to people to canvas them via survey (savvy marketing); anyone reading these threads for a while will notice, for instance, a roaring demand for some 60s material see the light of day.
To me, if I’m a fan of artist Edward Hopper (I am), I’m going to want to see as much of his art as possible, for my Hopper Fan Boy eyes see subtleties and complexities others maybe wouldn’t; a casual art observer may be content with his “Greatest Hits”, ie - Nighthawks or Chop Suey.
Regardless, this River box is a winner, as are all the boxes I am fortunate enough to own.
format? sound quality? putting great shows with good shows?
IMO there seems to be lots of reasons why this has not sold out. I did not buy it and I buy them all. After the so so patch jobs on the PNW box which I did not care for, I passed on this box. These are all good shows, with great shows mixed in. Call me a snob but I want all great shows with no cuts or patches. If that's not possible then I will just keep what I got from the archive or from etree, why spend that kind of scratch for shows I already have that only sound a bit better?
The format could be the reason, some only want from the era they were a part of, mostly 80's from what I gather here. I like the progression of the band from psychedelic juggernaut to what they became, but not everyone's cup of tea.
Perhaps it's the ploy of putting out most requested shows with shows that are not up to the great show that they are centered around? The original great box was a tough act to follow, seeings how the E72 tour was their best tour and it was the first one released with a massive 73 discs. With that great price. How to follow that? It's been what tptb have been asking themselves since.
The spring 90 boxes are a good example of that also, a great tour with consistently great shows released at a great price, which sold out quickly.
But what do I know? just the ramblings of an old deadhead on the first day of Spring.
Tip of the hat
ThatMike - my eyes lit up when you mentioned Edward Hopper. I really like his work too. About 20 years ago there was great exhibition on in London, and it was a real treat to be able to go from room to room and get drawn into his world. You can see his influence sometimes in films -"Deep Red" by Dario Argento features a scene that is clearly modelled on "The Nighthawks". And although I can't think of specific examples at the moment, Alfred Hitchcock and David Lynch feature scenes in some of their films that look to me to have been influenced by Hopper's way of seeing things.
Great comments
Mike, the 60s vibe, that’s a good example of what I’m saying. To “US”, the hardcore lunatics at deadnet, there appears to be an overwhelming unified consensus demanding a 60s box, but perhaps if you did a survey like DR suggests, our sample might be quite small comparatively? Just talking out me arse, but worth a thought?
You’d think they’d be doing marketing , but maybe not? Maybe they have been so fortunate to have enough of a loyal, reliable, bankable demand that they could just go with whatever they felt was good?
Personally, I think it’s good when things don’t sell out immediately. Gives some folks like P.T. etc a chance to decide or what not if they want to buy it. Or maybe you didn’t hear about it right a way, and as the bastard Murphy would have it, your busted after getting yet another of your kids braces, while the other kid smashed the car, and your washing machine broke. Like “Whaaaa???, you want $300 tomorrow morning, Dooaahh”
But these are singular micro type scenarios and we’re talking macro level.
Maybe DR is right and the nostalgia factor is bigger then I think, in that logistically, because of age, there are more casual fans from the later years than the early ones. Hell statistically, comparatively there weren’t that many causal fans in the early years. Let’s face it, for good or for ill, as time advanced there were way more causal “lets just go party and check it out folks” going to shows.
So maybe that’s part of it, when/if something that this larger population feels more akin to comes round, their more likely to buy it, then yet another older moldy from a time they don’t know or care about because they’ve never been in that deep?
I guess it’s probably a perfect storm of all the things we’ve been discussing? All these factors add up and the amount of units we’re talking about isn’t really that large, so…
But!….that’s all the more reason to deliver more, but smaller batches of certain eras!
Though I understand why a Giants type box would sell so fast, I still, do not understand fully how this box, by now, has not? Shifting market demographics and saturation is my guess though?
Just goes to show…