Grateful Dead

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84 and 85 were good years for D/S to my ears.
Also like the modern midi versions since those were the years I was going and so I know, from a visual perspective, what the lights looked like while all the sounds were happening.

I’m looking forward to this Box. I had a good sounding copy of 3-9-81 on cassette, and later upgraded to CD-R, but I expect that it will sound far superior in this Box.
A lot of my early-80’s shows that I had on cassette often sounded sped up a bit, from a tape deck running at the wrong speed. Don’t know if that was from the master deck or later in the generations.
These shows say speed corrected and Plangentized, so they should be cleaned up pretty nice.

Oro-that makes sense what you say about how some shows get to be regarded as classic, while others get passed by. Both 8/27/72 and 5/8/77 have suffered from reduced status in my ears since I have heard other shows from the same timespan. It surprises me looking back at the first Taping Compendium how some of the Europe 72 shows are dismissed - yet to me, every time I play any one of them, I love it. Maybe the people who wrote the book just didn't have very good tapes. Paradoxically, they go on for pages about how great 8/27/72 is.

I like to think that the reason I now like some years a lot more than others is because I listened to so many tapes from all years between about 1987 and 2004, and gradually found I liked some a lot more than others. I didn't plan it that way. The official releases added to that a bit too. 1972 just seems to get better and better. Some years don't though! Just for me - that's not an objective view.

As a rule of thumb, maybe......if someone disses a year or show-ignore them and find out for yourself. If they overload a show or year with praise - give it a listen-they may be right!

Charlie3 that Space>Fire on the Mountain from that lp is in a class by itself. That also is the one that got me really interested in what the Dead were doing. I like Drums>Space alot too, reason why I went to a lot of shows, to see what they were doing during those segments, Infared Roses for sure.
The Drums>Space in later years 93-94 were also very good, and long. I always look for "The Last Time" after Space in those later years, it's was like this could be the last time your ever hear such sounds. Space is the Place

Good post Oro, I would pretty much agree with your analysis of the issues regarding recording quality vs. show quality. All else being equal, I prefer a high quality recording, but, having said that, I find that if a show is good the impact of the recording quality fades into the background pretty quickly as my ears adjust.

As far as the early '80s stuff, there is a lot of great stuff there, I particularly dig some of the Scarlet Begonia's > Fire On The Mountain sequences from that era, for example on DP 6, the secret tracks on DP 13, and of course that Space>Fire On The Mountain transition from Dead Set, which was one of the things that hooked me on the Dead in the first place. I used to have a cassette of a JGB show from Music Mountain in NY in 1982 with a smokin' Don't Let Go, so there are plenty of times that Jerry was on fire in the early '80s, with the Dead and otherwise. And while not everyone digs the Drums > Space sequences, I do, a lot, and there are plenty of good ones in the early '80s. But, it doesn't affect my enjoyment at all if there are folks who don't like this, or other eras. I dig what I dig, and others are free to do the same, it's no skin off my back.

Starting todays listening with Electriclarryland by the Butthole Surfers. Cinnamon and sugary and softly spoken lies, you never know just how you look through other people's eyes...

First no offense to anyone as I’m sure my opinion will not be shared by many, but he did ask.

I think the whole culture has been suffering from the over influence of taper bias all along. Dave is a prime example. How many times have we wondered if he picked the right city and street, but ended up going to the wrong house. Conjecture to be sure, but a plausible argument by some.)
So What’s this taper bias that you say!
Way back when, when there were very few tapes: taping was verboten so harder to do, the equipment to make tapes was mostly lousy, so it was harder to get a great recording.
So BITD, with Sound board tapes, (though not accurate in any way), you could often get a much better, listenable recording, comparatively. So though they aren’t accurate (they don’t sound like what the actual sound of the instruments are in the room it’s performed in etc), they became the go to standard. Plus no one likes to listen to THAT guy yell in the most heavy NY city accent “Dddddaaaaaaaaakkkk Sssssssttttttaaaaaaaarrrrrrr Jjjjjjjjjj-rrrrrrrrreeeeeeeee” every three minutes the whole night!
Now add to the above, the increased frequency response provided by using reel to reel, and most importantly, having a somewhat dedicated individual utilizing a separate mix just for the recording versus using the afterthought house mix, and the mythical status of such tapes was enhanced.

So when you had very few good tapes, shows that were good, versus great, started getting mythical status since there weren’t many other shows to compare too. To me, that’s how certain shows have become significantly overrated over the years. If a ridiculously good sounding tape of what is arguably only a “B” show, was the only reference and the tapes from “A” shows were not good, the B show, through tape traders WOM, like some ancient cultural tribe passing secrets and knowledge around the camp fires, was elevated to a status it may not relatively deserve.

But today, via the archive and so many official releases, if one takes the time to listen to a variety of shows from all eras etc, you will notice that much of what has become thought of as common assumptions about certain shows/eras etc, (the music itself) are not fully accurate, thus perhaps robbing some of the pleasure and enjoyment of these dismissed out of hand shows, because of some of these bias’s that were planted long ago.
Interestingly, as recording and other related technology has improved significantly, aud recordings often became better than SBs. But the bias that SBs were the only way to go had become so ingrained in the culture to the point that the majority of folks never check out Auds, unless it’s the only source available, or the SB is unlistenable. And yes, there are perhaps more lousy sounding Auds than great ones, but when done well, they can be spectacular and a much more accurate representation! Personally, nothing beats a properly done matrix!
Ironically, while technology improved, the later era SB recordings were often diminished. But this is not because the band is “ragged” or the music is lessor, or not good! (Yes one can argue the mid eighties suffered some of that, but I feel there was a trade off there)
No, once again, much of the stigma that came from the fact that many of the tapes were now produced as an afterthought, and for the mixer to use as a tool, a secondary concern, by Dan Healy who’s main concern was live sound reinforcement, not making a recording, combined with the lower fidelity of cassettes.
That’s not to say that sometimes those SBs are still pretty damn fine for what they are: we have ample proof from several official releases! But no matter how excellent, they aren’t going to sound THE SAME, or as good as a recording by a dedicated mixer using reel to reel tape.

So to me, the problem then isn’t so much the sound/music/band, it’s more personal, psychological, based on bias’, assumptions, and personal preferences, often stemming from recordings, not personal experience. And hey, I’m not trying to sway anyone from their pleasure zone etc. Just saying you might be surprised at how good other stuff can be, given the right ears and attitude.
I just find personally, the quality of the show, the playing, the set list, and most of all, the effort and X factor are just as important or more so, than the recoding. I’ll take an ok recording of a ridiculously hot show over a pristine Betty reel of a so so show any day! In other words, I’m more interested in what goes in the container, versus what kind of container is used. But many people have become so biased that if it’s not a Betty board it’s not worth listening to, which is certainly their choice, it just seems so limiting and i feel bad that folks may be missing out on so much good stuff for what may not be an accurate reason?

The other thing that allows me to be open to all eras, is not to compare apples to oranges etc. I only compare shows within a tour, or perhaps a year. The Dead was so fluid, and thus different, on many levels that to compare say, anything from 68 to 78, is futile. So by not getting hung up on those incomparable comparisons, it allows me to take each show as it is, on its own merits and failures, which every show has both, imho.

Just to be clear, I am not trying to argue that one era is better than another, (everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions and preferences) only that perhaps SOME folks may be biased about such, due to taper bias, or cultural stereotypes, instead of first hand empirical knowledge.
As one who has spent a fair amount of time the last several years trying to go furthur (check out Pick of the Day with discussion) adventuring into many of these “fly over tours” I have come to realize just how good and often consistent the band was more often, and during times, that many would never consider, out of hand, because of negatives biases passed down through the years etc. I’ve found very enjoyable GOGD from every year, it’s just some years/shows have higher batting averages. Just gotta poke around!
So I’m sure the shows in the upcoming box will not sound the same as a pristine Betty, and via the constant evolution of the band/music, may sound different than your favorite year, but that doesn’t mean that it’s bad, or lessor, or not worthy, just different, so what?
I think this box is going to rock because of the quality of the shows, and the impressive audio improvements provided via plangent and full Norman etc. comparatively, if you compare to the comparable.
If your a big Deadhead, and there were no Betty’s, or multitrack masterpieces, and all you had to compare was similar material, I’d bet many would think much more highly of this release, and of this era!
Obviously, not everyone’s going to like everything or in the same way.
But I think most folks who give this a proper consideration will be pleasantly surprised.
So yeah, I think recordings have had a big influence, but not in a good way.
Anyway, hopefully that at least makes sense, and again, not trying to sway anyones preferences, just suggesting perhaps a different perspective?

So, yes, definitely. I've thought about that a few times myself and I think the overall quality of the recordings is one reason why people don't go for the early 80s that much. It's amazing how with 15-20 years of technology and the soundboards got worse. Ha!

I actually made a backup of the entire local iTunes library and did a clean fresh install of iTunes.

The cloud then pulled down everything “as was, prior” - the version with the original screw ups whose correction led to the larger problem.

I carefully went through and corrected those, and bizarrely noticed a lot of other duplicate tracks and errors in a load of earlier rips “corrected themselves”.

I can only conclude that my pre-cloud and post-cloud libraries were clashing and iTunes Match couldn’t handle certain releases.

For instance, Nightfall of Diamonds and Crimson, White and Indigo both had three copies of each track under one Album title, with each track being slightly differently named. Whatever I did cured that, making those playable again.

I will go a redo the original Dick’s as a matter of course using newer encoding and better bitrates. Otherwise, touch wood, whatever I did to phuck it all up, I managed not to repeat. Note: do not rip Dave’s to iTunes when suffering confusion due to toxin build up in the brain! Lol. As I said, all sorted with that now, and it’s so much easier to handle the little details. A month ago, I couldn’t remember my age or phone number and was a bit of a babbling imbecile. I just didn’t notice at the time.

I don’t know about y’all, but I like my shows to run in order, so if a Dave’s comes with another half show as filler over two discs, I’ll call that disc 3 and rehash the track info to get the playing order to my liking. That’s where I screwed up. I think.

Anyway, all seems good now, and I see what you mean about the physical library and how iTunes orders / makes its media folders. Good tip!

But above all, I now have a backup scheduled!

Thanks again!

S.

Your Metadata for the most part should still be intact. I think your cleanest way put is to import your library folder by folder. The song names, album names, etc. should come through exactly like you had before.

I think..

Good luck. We've all had something like this happen at least once.

Edit: It pays to clean up your metadata after you rip a show and put all the songs in the same folder, i.e. 1969-11-02 Family Dog. These CD sets often create a new folder(directory) for each CD using lord knows what name... the better it's organized the easier it is to recover.

Guess who’s iTunes decided to interpret a change of album art for one GD track?

Yup, you got it!

Just turned my entire GD iTunes library into one massive album (Dave’s Picks 36)! Well done Apple! No undo button… no pre-process prompt. Just Bam!

So, that’s everything GD Store from DP1 and GrayFolded to now, minus a medium hiatus owing to grumpiness on my part…Including a few cheeky Boots’ including 1/11/90, all of the Download series of which the original files are god knows where…

So, do we make lemonade and use this an excuse to start again from scratch? Better bitrate lossless rips etc. reacquaint myself with some of the original Dick’s gold? Fix a few buggered files and odd names etc?

Or do I try and fix the metadata and somehow manually rebuild the titles? I have the file created dates and the actual library has retained the folder structure at least, so physically, I have a skeleton to work from.

One seems like a lot of effort but perhaps quicker, the other seems like a long long project, but maybe worth it it in the long run…

Answers on a postcard? Bummer is that I can’t listen to Dave’s 43 until I commit one way or the other, because so far nothing has synced to the cloud version. As soon as I go online with that broken list, I just know the cloud version will also become “embuggered”. Serves me right for having the brain fade (literally, I had a mild brain cognitive function issue that led to the original screw up that I was trying to fix… I’m all good now though! :-) )

I work in IT and never made backups. What a loser!

There is another option, the nuclear option. I’m sure I installed iTunes from scratch and then it populated from the cloud version last time I got a new laptop. Maybe that’s a way forward? But where’s the fun in that?

Love you all! And thanks again to Dr Rhino for going above and way beyond to help with a busted disc issue recently... Means the world to me, and I can’t say thank you too many times.

Folks! Been wondering about something in advance of the MSG 81-83 box and wanted to solicit some crowd thoughts.

Obviously there are some Heads who are first-half-80s super fans. I haven't been one of them, nor are my Dead friends. I think part of that has been assumptions about how ragged the band was in the first half of the decade.

And I'm wondering if assumptions about those years are in part down to just not having as good tapes of that era.

That is, while the era was objectively rougher, fewer people know about how many highs and gems there were simply because the years are lesser heard, and they're lesser heard because non-aud tapes -- soundboards from cassettes -- aren't as good.

Any truth to that idea in your humble opinions?