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    A sealed, unlabeled box sat undisturbed for decades on a shelf in the Grateful Dead’s San Rafael tape vault on Front Street, its contents an enduring mystery, even to those few with access to the vault. All David Lemieux knew about that box when he became the Dead’s archivist was that it contained tapes belonging to Bear—Owsley Stanley, the Dead’s first soundman and architect of the Wall of Sound. Even in the Dead Heads’ Holy of Holies, the taped-up box was tantalizing. But this was Bear’s personal property, and so he didn’t touch the box out of an abiding respect for the elder luminary of sound. Bear’s archive of Sonic Journal recordings had been kept safe for him for years within the Grateful Dead’s vault—over 1,300 reels of tape stored in heavy-duty cartons like old banana boxes. At any time, David could have popped the tops and explored them to his archivist heart's content. But they were off-limits without the nod from Bear. - Starfinder Stanley, Hawk, and Pete Bell, Owsley Stanley Foundation

     

    With a wink and a nod from Bear, we've peeled back those banana boxes to find some of the oldest and rarest of all recordings of the Dead including the double dose of shows that make up DAVE’S PICKS VOLUME 43. The two virtually complete performances from San Francisco 11/2/69, Live At Family Dog At The Great Highway, and from Dallas 12/26/69, McFarlin Auditorium, are complementary in their clarity and consistency thanks to Bear himself, and in their ability to foreshadow where the Dead were headed in the years to come. If the two killer 20-minute+ "Dark Stars" don't get ya, how about the Pigpen-centric sets featuring "Midnight Hour," "Next Time You See Me," "Big Boss Man," "Good Lovin'," and the once-lost-now-found complete rendition of "Dancing In The Streets," or the first full acoustic set ever performed? And we're certain you'll be fascinated to uncover the "Mystery Of Bear's Banana Boxes" as told by Starfinder Stanley, Hawk, and Pete Bell in the liners.

     

    Limited to 25,000 numbered copies, DAVE’S PICKS VOLUME 43 was recorded by Owlsey "Bear" Stanley and has been mastered to HDCD specs by Jeffrey Norman at Mockingbird Mastering. Grab a copy while you can.

     

    *2 per order. Very limited quantity available.

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  • #1131
    Oroborous
    Joined:
    Simple must do audio rules

    There are many things that can be done to get your system set up correctly that often can facilitate noticeable performance improvements equal too or greater than any electronics! Best part, they cost little or nothing!

    SPEAKER PHASING: one of the most notorious mistakes that makes a huge noticeable difference and is super easy.
    Make sure your positive amp/receiver terminal is connected to the positive of the speaker, ON BOTH speakers!!
    So positive to positive, negative to negative etc. on both speakers.
    If one is wired opposite of the other, your speakers are out of phase which means their working against each other instead of with each other. Speakers move back and forth, or in and out. If one is wired out of phase that means one speaker is pushing air out while the other speaker is pulling back in, thus effecting bass coupling dramatically! So what you say? You will likely laugh or gasp at how much better your speakers sound (bass enhancement) when you hear them in phase after getting used to them being out!

    SPEAKER HEIGHT: the tweeter should always be placed at ear height. So if using stand speakers, measure so stand places the speakers tweeter exactly at listening position ear height. In conekids case he’s a little higher, which might effect his main position, but since he’s trying to cover 2 zones IR areas it’s a trade off. This is an example of how the situation may dictate slight tweaks, but you should at least start following these rules then tweek.

    SPEAKER PLACEMENT: optimally should form an equilateral triangle: same distance from listening position to each speaker, and same distance between speakers. This can be tweaked depending on several variables.
    Spread them out too far and you lose acoustic coupling and stereo imaging etc., too close together and your sound field collapses and you lose stereo effect etc. This is something you can play with and doesn’t cost anything.
    Obviously you should try to avoid placing objects in front of speakers…
    They should be placed along a wall, but out from the wall. Too close to the wall causes boundary issues that make bass bloated and unnaturally loud etc. Too far out from the wall and they can sound too thin (not enough bass).
    Again, depending on your speakers and other factors you can play with this until you get it right.
    Same with listening position: if you sit too close to any wall, but especially the back wall you’ll again suffer from boundary issues that unnaturally bloat/muddy bass.
    Really you should never put speakers or listening position next to a wall!

    RULE OF THIRDS: look it up. Though using the third dimension is usually not practical, the rule of fifths is and works perhaps better. What’s that you say? Divide your room into fifths. Place the speakers one fifth of the way in from the side walls, leaving three fifths between them. So a 20’ room would have the center of each speaker 4’ from the side walls with 12’ between speaker center points. Then, to form the equilateral triangle, measure 12’ from the center of each speaker to your ear position at your listening sweet spot! Depending on your speakers you may want to toe them in slightly versus having them point directly forward. Again, play around and tweek. Tweeting should be done vary slightly, sometimes an inch or two can make a big difference! Be slow and methodological.

    SUB WOOFERS: I’m not a fan of subs for 2 channel stereo, but they can be a necessity for small bookshelf speakers etc.
    Subs suffer even more from boundary issues described above! Corners are usually the worst place to put a sub woofer!
    Here’s a trick. Place your sub in your listening position and put on some bass active music you know well. Now crawl around on the floor and listen. When you find the place the bass sounds best, put your sub there. This is a cheap down and dirty way to deal with room modes, one of the biggest negative factors in music enjoyment. (Look them up).
    I have a fairly large above average system in a dedicated room, but my room is too narrow for my system so I often have horrible bass bloat issues because of these room modes etc. (funny but it’s mostly only a problem with old Dead when Phil was still playing Alembic lol). Usually I can just roll off a little of my 30 hertz eq nob on my C 40 pre amp. I have a DSP room unit that uses excellent Dirac SW, but haven’t gotten around to it (slacker).
    There are many solutions and sometimes DSP can help (but that won’t do pure analog folks much good) but often the best way to deal with many of these issues is to follow these fairly simple rules and play around with things.

    Oh, lastly. You can help smooth out your room by dampening first reflection points. There’s diffusion and absorption and more. But to keep it simple. We’ll just look at some basics.
    Have someone with a mirror move along the side wall with the mirror. The place where you can see the speaker in the mirror while being seated in the listening position is the first reflection point. Put something (all kinds of things both diy and professional) in that spot along the wall (and ceiling if you want to go the extra distance) that will absorb the sound, so that your hearing the direct sound from the speaker without the phase issues and coloration of the reflected sound off the wall. This is another simple but big improvement.
    You can experiment with placing adsorption in other obvious places like directly back from the speakers on the opposite wall. If you have a big room, perhaps look at second reflection points.

    NOTE: this is not sound proofing! That is a whole other field above and behind this tutorial. Save your money! Putting egg crates, foam, or most of the items for sale on line DO NOT WORK! They will not stop bass from passing through walls and structure! Some of these products may help the sound in the room, but will do nothing for stopping it’s transmission out of the room!

    SPEAKER ISOLATORS: another thing you just have to try. Using the pointy spikes or not for speaker feet. Sometimes they help other times you may want to isolate your speakers from the floor to eliminate too much bass and our help with transference to another room or dwelling.
    Oh, use a heavy carpet on the floor at least between the speakers and listening position if not bigger. Put this is yet another situational thing that you may have to play with.

    Remember folks: the situation is the boss!
    Hope this helps!

    HDCD: if everything is set up and functioning properly you can hear a difference. How noticeable or if noticeable will depend on your equipment, set up and ears. If you have a nice system and actually play discs, you might find some improvements but for many you might not really hear a difference, certainly not a huge difference so I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Following the above mentioned rules as much as possible will!

    Oh, ps, the above assumes best case practices. As no room is perfect, and some are just plain awful, and many of us need to live with our significant others, ahem, obviously not everyone will be able to follow all of these.

  • #1132
    daverock
    Joined:
    Replacement

    Cnkd - It never occurred to me at the time that I could have asked for a brand new replacement. The replacement from the shop floor is better - the first one used to skip tracks out - with this one it's just the delay in registering which track is playing by about a second that's a bit odd. It plays to perfection apart from that. And really sounds good.

  • #1133
    Dennis
    Joined:
    Sound systems

    Good talk.

    More important to system?

    Listening!!!

    When I bought my system the guy told me, you will not hear what this system does, while doing the dishes, while cleaning, while doing anything else. You have to sit and listen.

    It's true.

    Sound systems and people are a funny thing. I think MOST people listen to the radio and only own a handful of cd's/albums, usually the stuff they listen to in high school or college,,,, after that they stop buying. Kids today seem to live off spot-e-fied and own nothing. I have found the largest genre in people's collection is christmas albums (go figure!)

    I think this group of people are the exception to that.

    What'd ya think?

  • #1134
    KeithFan2112
    Joined:
    Since there's a CD player discussion going on...

    For people who are listening on HDCD players, what sort of improvement can you hear in the audio? I would think there is some discernable improvement.

    I think I've listened to these shows 10x each. Moved on to others in the time period. Doing Dick's Picks 4 at the moment. I was not hardcore into the Dead when it was released. I imagine people were reacting even more positively into it than even this Dave's Picks, due to the Fillmore legend of the Feb 13 & 14 shows when it came out. Was there a discussion board up at the time to spread the enthusiasm?

    Vguy - good to see the red dice and green felt has returned - it's positively you.

    Nitecat - also digging TC's contributions on these shows. When he was "on" and audible, he really filled out their sound nicely.

  • #1135
    icecrmcnkd
    Joined:
    More audio talk

    Wow, Daverock that’s a pricey player to be malfunctioning, and then be replaced by a floor model (which apparently has the same defect). They should have given you a new one from the factory.

    I thought that my new Cambridge Audio CD player was defective but then realized that my Vizio TV remote interferes with it. I had the TV on and was going through the menu adjusting settings but every time I hit a button on the TV remote the CD player would jump tracks or stop playing. Was relieved to find that the CD player was fine.

    Nick, go with what sounds best to you.

    Last night spun the Anthem of the Sun CD that I bought in 1989 (it’s the 1971 remix) and it sounded pretty dull.
    Then put in Steppin’ Out CD3 and started at Truckin’. Sounded better, but not that great.
    DaP43 sounds far superior to those older CD’s.

  • #1136
    daverock
    Joined:
    Magic Ingredient

    To me, the best sounding recordings I ever heard were the first ones I got, between 1971 and about 1978. They were records, and what made them great was the magic ingredient. It had nothing to do with what I played them on. If your system captures that-you've got it. For me you can no more improve on that than you can The Grand Canyon

    Nick1234 - having said that, I got a Rega Saturn-R cd player about 3 years ago. And it sounds great - but the first one I bought had to go back to the shop after about 9 months, as some cds wouldn't play-and others jumped to the 3rd or 4th track when I wanted to hear the 1st one. They eventually replaced it with a display model from the shop floor. That is great - although I have noticed that half way through a cd...when the music for track 4 starts, the display unit still shows track 3 for a few seconds - it is slightly behind the music. But the sound quality is top notch. As for the magic ingredient....

  • #1137
    Charlie3
    Joined:
    My Wife

    I joke, but my wife has put up with my idiosyncrasies and such for 30 years, 36 if you count the time we were together before getting married. She deserves a medal, 'cause I am aware that I can be a difficult person to live with sometimes.

    The speakers have a clear pretty clear path to spread the sound around the space and the actual speakers are at the upper two thirds of about a 43 inch high tower, so a bit above the ground, and built to tilt ever so slightly to direct the sound slightly upward and fill the space nicely, so I exaggerate about the impediments, or more accurate to say I just get a little obsessive about the impediments to the sound.

    For tonight's classic '70s movie I went with the Godfather, the first one. I've watched it several times before but it never disappoints, I love that movie every time. A near perfect movie, weirdly gratifying.

  • #1138
    Nick1234
    Default Avatar
    Joined:
    System advice

    While we're on the subject can I ask for a bit of advice? I'm in the market for a new system and at the moment I'm thinking of a Naim Supernait 3 amp and B&W 702 S2 speakers. I can audition these at my local hifi dealer. What CD player to accompany these? I'm not going for a turntable at the moment. I have 5 weeks to audition anything at my local shop before I move to the Shetland Islands and there's no hifi dealer there that I'm aware of so it's now or never. I'd sort of like to support Rega as their factory is about a mile from my current house but at these prices I'll go for the best fit for my ears.

  • #1139
    Vguy72
    Joined:
    Also point out....

    ....that at concerts, they raise the stacks on cables for maximum efficiency.

  • #1140
    icecrmcnkd
    Joined:
    Charlie, etc

    Point out to your wife that at concerts they don’t put the speakers on the floor, that would block the sound.

    My kitchen and living room are connected end-to-end, about 12 feet wide, so not a huge area to fill with sound. The speakers in the air project the sound into the kitchen perfectly, with the sweet spot from the front of the couch back to the island in the kitchen. Can also see the TV on the wall from the kitchen.
    It’s just me and my dog, so I can turn the volume up as loud as I want.

    I’ve had this new CD player for 2 weeks and have also been playing non-GD CD’s to see how they sound. The Cambridge Audio dealer that I got it from said that it needed about 100 hours of use to get broken in so I’ve been spinning CD’s instead of using my iBasso music player.
    Once the CD player is broken in I might then run it into the DAC via stereo RCA cables which I did at first, and it boosts the signal by about 20 dB according to having to turn down the volume, but I wanted to break it in sending the signal to the receiver.

    Spinning Rush - Exit Stage Left currently.
    This morning was Floyd - More and then Piper.
    I’m thinking next the Anthem of the Sun CD I bought in 1989, want to see if that sounds good or if it’s a victim of crappy 80’s mastering.

    The iBasso music players come with a burn-in adapter which simulates the electrical resistance of being plugged into a stereo system. You plug that in and put a show on loop and just let it run for about 50 hours, and then it’s supposed to be broken in.

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A sealed, unlabeled box sat undisturbed for decades on a shelf in the Grateful Dead’s San Rafael tape vault on Front Street, its contents an enduring mystery, even to those few with access to the vault. All David Lemieux knew about that box when he became the Dead’s archivist was that it contained tapes belonging to Bear—Owsley Stanley, the Dead’s first soundman and architect of the Wall of Sound. Even in the Dead Heads’ Holy of Holies, the taped-up box was tantalizing. But this was Bear’s personal property, and so he didn’t touch the box out of an abiding respect for the elder luminary of sound. Bear’s archive of Sonic Journal recordings had been kept safe for him for years within the Grateful Dead’s vault—over 1,300 reels of tape stored in heavy-duty cartons like old banana boxes. At any time, David could have popped the tops and explored them to his archivist heart's content. But they were off-limits without the nod from Bear. - Starfinder Stanley, Hawk, and Pete Bell, Owsley Stanley Foundation

 

With a wink and a nod from Bear, we've peeled back those banana boxes to find some of the oldest and rarest of all recordings of the Dead including the double dose of shows that make up DAVE’S PICKS VOLUME 43. The two virtually complete performances from San Francisco 11/2/69, Live At Family Dog At The Great Highway, and from Dallas 12/26/69, McFarlin Auditorium, are complementary in their clarity and consistency thanks to Bear himself, and in their ability to foreshadow where the Dead were headed in the years to come. If the two killer 20-minute+ "Dark Stars" don't get ya, how about the Pigpen-centric sets featuring "Midnight Hour," "Next Time You See Me," "Big Boss Man," "Good Lovin'," and the once-lost-now-found complete rendition of "Dancing In The Streets," or the first full acoustic set ever performed? And we're certain you'll be fascinated to uncover the "Mystery Of Bear's Banana Boxes" as told by Starfinder Stanley, Hawk, and Pete Bell in the liners.

 

Limited to 25,000 numbered copies, DAVE’S PICKS VOLUME 43 was recorded by Owlsey "Bear" Stanley and has been mastered to HDCD specs by Jeffrey Norman at Mockingbird Mastering. Grab a copy while you can.

 

*2 per order. Very limited quantity available.

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Submitted by billy the kiddd on Sat, 09/24/2022 - 18:39

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Sorry you lost your pet 1stshow, that is a real drag.

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Submitted by billy the kiddd on Sat, 09/24/2022 - 18:50

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39 years ago today, I was at the Santa Cruz County Fairgrounds to see the Good Ole Grateful Dead put on a fantastic show! It was a real cool venue and I just had an absolute blast! One of my favorite shows. I saw some great shows in 1983, 10/30&31/83, 12/28/83(my favorite). Ventura, Frost, Greek. It was a great year to be seeing the Dead.

....much respect to the tabby colors.
I raise my glass to her.
Godspeed.
Losing a pet is rough.
Now we have two. My step-daughter is trying to breed her German Shepherd bitch currently.
I called dibs on a female.
Doubling-down on the future pain....
And so it goes.
You know what's also pretty cool?
Watching drone footage of BMX'ers, skaters, racers and snowboarders.
Keen.

I have heard that on cassette and disc a few times. Very nice show. My friend Mike attended and said Uncle John's Band "touched his soul".

Yup.

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Submitted by bluecrow on Sun, 09/25/2022 - 08:29

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opened for the Dead at a Rex Benefit show. had no idea. Steve Silberman tweet pointed to a pre FM broadcast source over on the u-toobs. just uploaded 9/24. it sounds beautiful.

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Submitted by carlo13 on Sun, 09/25/2022 - 17:49

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2 Framingham dates. Nov. 1st, and Nov. 5th.. I have hash for refreshments. Not the corned beef type.

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Submitted by Vguy72 on Sun, 09/25/2022 - 18:13

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....bourbon and shrooms?
Heading out to see a band called Sabaton. My son is a fan and he's dragging me along.
Just kidding. They're a power metal band from Sweden who's theme is wars.
Stage show looks legit.
Let's see what up.

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Submitted by carlo13 on Sun, 09/25/2022 - 18:41

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Type, grateful dead,
meetupatthemovies.kom
What state are you in? You can also come to Massachusetts. Ha. That's what arlo Guthrie says, "there ain't no where else to be like Massachusetts.".

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Submitted by JimInMD on Sun, 09/25/2022 - 20:49

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Funny.. I am going to the site referenced and the closest theatre to me using their site/app is the same theatre in Oklahoma. Humorous considering we could not live further away from each other and still be in the continental US. We literally live on the opposite ends of the country.

But the internet never lies and I want to go so I guess this is the place to see them. We should hook up before the show.

If you dig closer into the app they advise on how to get there either by car, transit, walking, cycling or flights. I like to walk so I selected that option. I can get to the theatre in approximately 383 hours as it is 1,166 miles. Assuming I powerwalk and do not stop to eat, pee, sleep or God forbid meet an equally minded freak and do what Pigpen says I should be able to make it just in time for the show.

I'm getting a good night's sleep and heading out in the morning, meet you there. I guess I am going to Forest Gump across the country.

Edit:
I'm just happy there was no digital download option.

You can’t do stooopid shit against good teams and win.
You have to capitalize on opportunities against good teams to win.
Miami did what they had to do and deserved to win, BUT…

Anyways, congrats to you and your team good sir!

MUATM: some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to…Oklahoma??

GO VIKS!

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Submitted by Vguy72 on Mon, 09/26/2022 - 08:30

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....whelp, my son survived his first mosh pit. Couldn't keep him out! I even jumped in a few times. Proceeded to tweak my knee, but I will survive. Pretty damn good show. Avatar changed accordingly portraying the aftermath.
Am I getting to old for this shit? I think not!!

VGuy - You are a good soul and a great Dad to endure a mosh pit! Respect.

Oro - Sheesh! Hope I didn’t jinx your Bills with that Super Bowl chatter…yikes! About those Sabres…

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Submitted by Vguy72 on Mon, 09/26/2022 - 10:01

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....yeah. A few people there said that. My son was hesitant at first, but I told him about mosh pit etiquette. If you fall, they will pick you right up. The fans on the outside of the pit will push you back in a bit and give you some momentum, but will notice when you are ready to tap out and will let you through. Don't throw elbows, make sure your shoe laces are tied up high and look out for your fellow moshers.
And sure enough, that's what happened.
Metal fans are a cool group 🤘.
And afterwards we did my post-concert ritual. In-N-Out burgers!!

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Submitted by 1stshow70878 on Mon, 09/26/2022 - 10:44

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Anyone have these or the Baby Advent speakers?
Got the college era stereo up and running in the bedroom.
Saw some Minis for $50. locally and they fit the size/wattage needs.
Reviews seem mostly positive.
And they have a real x-over unlike some of the A/V stuff.
You know what I'll be listening to on them!
Oro, This is your gig isn't it? Appreciate any input.
Cheers

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Submitted by proudfoot on Mon, 09/26/2022 - 14:05

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"That's what a hamburger's all about"

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Submitted by proudfoot on Mon, 09/26/2022 - 14:10

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Just sayin

In Seattle we have Dick's
Cali and such have In n Out
Wendy's used to be Hot n Juicy

Food porn?

The other night I had a Patty Melt (giggedy) that was pretty erotic. Truly a great sandwich.

Time for some GD, methinks

Last 5 non GD
bowie heroes
Metallica master of puppets
Metallica and justice
RS it's only rock and roll
Pink floyd early singles

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Submitted by dmcvt on Mon, 09/26/2022 - 15:50

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not Oro... but: 1stshow, check the surrounds on those "woofers", i think they were foam which tends to break down, get brittle with age. They can be replaced with a surrounds kit, but its a bit of a pitb. My thanks for the heads up (and RIP) Pharoah Sanders which utube check led me to a video for his "Live at Jazz Cafe London 2011" quite wonderful, check it out. I was lucky to find Sanders music way back in 1969, his album Karma with the extended journey of "The Creator Has a Master Plan" was a favorite with my high school hash smoking jazz buds Charlie and Mike. Still loving this DaP43, music, as always, and the good folks here, the best.

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Submitted by That Mike on Mon, 09/26/2022 - 18:29

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All this Burgers talk made me pull out the first rate Hot Tuna album by the same name - true religion, indeed!

I have done a deep dive on both Eric Dolphy and Ornette Coleman in the past, two of the bigger “Free Jazz” artists, and I even bought some Mary Halvorson, a current jazz guitarist who heavily leans to “free jazz”. It can be very challenging music - this sure isn’t the Doobie Brothers sound - tough to get inside, but often very rewarding. Pharaoh Sanders was a free jazz artist in that vein I always had a tougher time with. Perhaps it’s time to give him another listen.

One album I’ve got to give another listen to is the just released Detroit Jazz Festival 2017 recording, featuring Wayne Shorter, and others. I think Shorter is one of the pillars of jazz, a personal favourite, but my first run through of this album was really disappointing. Not so much Shorter, but the other artists he is playing with, and this really “unique” vocals (I’m not a fan of jazz with vocals), really sounded lousy. I’m hoping a fresh listen will sound better, because this may be the last recording Shorter does, and it’s not the way you want to end things.
I cleansed myself with 10/29/73 from the River box. Not a bad note heard.

That Mike, bravo for noting Mary, really not expecting to see her name here. She came to play locally at Dartmouth with her group Thumbscrew a few years ago, performing with them and the Coast, Dartmouth's student jazz band who are phenomenally motivated and directed by Mary's friend, director and teacher Taylor Ho Bynum. Yes, challenging music and not an easy categorization to jazz. You might know her story of starting out as a child on violin, when she discovered Jimi Hendrix at age eleven, she switched to guitar. I had a chance to speak with her after the concert and asked her about the extraordinary voicing she coaxed from her instrument. While Dartmouth seems among the more conservative of the Ivies, they do bring great jazz performances in from time to time. I have been fortunate to catch Chick Corea there with Brian Blade and Charlie McBride, Brad Mehldau solo, McCoy Tyner solo, Carla Bley etc. The Grateful Dead did play once at Dartmouth, May 5, 1978, though I was nowhere nearby at that time.

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Submitted by Mr. Ones on Tue, 09/27/2022 - 06:43

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It's amazing how different people hear the same music differently. It's also a beautiful thing.
I love, love, love Pharoah Sanders, almost everything he recorded. I love most all of Ornette's Music too.
For some reason, Eric Dolphy just doesn't do it for me.
Horses for courses.

Bottom line--Music is the Best!!

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Submitted by That Mike on Tue, 09/27/2022 - 06:55

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I didn’t know Mary Halvorson was a Jimi disciple, but really neat you got to meet her and pick her brain, as she truly has a unique “voice” to her playing. I became interested in her sound after the joint album she made with Bill Frisell (a guy who makes ANY album he plays on sound better), “The Maid With The Flaxen Hair”, so I picked up some of her Thumbscrew releases, and was not disappointed.

As for Dartmouth, it really sounds like a really very hip place, music-wise!

PS - That Trio of Chick with Blade & McBride was some of the best music I think Corea made, so a definite 5 star show to see. The first time I ever “saw” Brian Blade was when he accompanied Joni Mitchell for a New York Times Talk on stage for her 70th birthday celebration in Toronto - he was there as Joni’s “Plus One”, but no playing, unfortunately. Then I saw him a few years later backing Shorter - now I get why this guy is in such demand!

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Submitted by Oroborous on Tue, 09/27/2022 - 07:31

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I told ya not to jinx us lol.
Naaaa, they jinxed themselves per usual.
Great jazz talk!

Just listened to Karma yesterday, followed by Sun Ra.

ISTSHOW/Advents. Can’t recall actually hearing any Advents though I’m sure BITD I must have?
Using In the BR: assuming just for secondary listening, so probably ok for low level listening…
I was going to say same as DMCVT (hola DMCVT by the way!) make sure you check the surrounds. Not just foam ones, though it looks like the advents have issues with that. Always check the surrounds of any old speaker as they tend to dry out and disintegrate. Happened to my McIntosh XR 7s. Lugged em back east to trade for a preamp, got to my buddies to pick him up to go to the store, my surrounds had started to go bad on the road trip, doooaaa.

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Submitted by 1stshow70878 on Tue, 09/27/2022 - 08:44

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Good advice. The surrounds look good in pics but I haven't seen in person yet. Got another pair I've been eyeing from a known good seller: Infinity Reference One, a 6" two-way but not the Emit tweeter. New surrounds and broken in he says. And I heard a pair of these a few months ago at the music/record store that was going out of business. (Dang! Lost another one. We kill small stores quick out here in the boonies.) They sounded good and they still barely fit my size limitations and considerably more money but, as you guys point out, anything of that era is going to need refoamed soon no matter how well they were kept. Just crap on Craigslist and we don't see the good stuff at our Salvation Army so it's safer to just pony up. So Oro what's the popular brand now in your home installations? I assume some of what you do is in ceilings or flat mounted. Do you do the full on home theater stuff too? Oh, bad form to have you talking about work. I'm good to go. Onward to DP11. See you on the POTDWD. Thanks again.
Cheers

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Submitted by Oroborous on Tue, 09/27/2022 - 09:37

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No worries, I love talking about stereos.

We don’t sell many stand alone speakers anymore, mostly in wall/ceiling. No one wants to see gear anymore. Remember back in the day when folks used to like to show off their stereo!

Occasionally we will on bigger jobs. For big theaters we were using Pro Audio Amps/speakers, but not sure we’re still doing that? We also have used Wisdom Audio last few years, and McIntosh. Did lots of BMW BITD but I think we lost our dealership? I think we did some Toa for a bit! Think our Aspen office occasionally sells some Wilson’s?
Our in ceilings have been Sonance, and I’ve seen little bookshelf versions. In fact I have a small like new set of three I should get rid of? One of my current installations were using James audio in ceiling.
Also, I believe I have some new in box Denons? Very small came with one of those all in one sets. We paired em with in ceiling so I still have those in the box. Actually have 3 B&W 805s and some 602s? Not sure on the models…the 602s I’m using for immersive height layer utilizing Auro 3D format. The 805s were supposed to be for a surround set up in the BR but didn’t end up doing that.
If I was buying new, and could afford it, I’ve liked the Harbeth monitors. Focal has some more affordable offerings, but they can be hit or miss. Perhaps Magico if I was wealthy lol.
Always try to hear stuff before you buy when possible. If buying new, some places will let you try with your electronics because in the end the synergy of your gear combined with your preferences (sound) is what matters.

Oh ps, keep forgetting: sorry about the kitty! My cousin just had to put down what I consider one of the best, most mellow cats ever, very dog like! Henry was 22 years and 9 months but had a stroke so they had to put him down : (
One reason we don’t have pets anymore, the little bastards die on ya and break your heart, it’s too hard losing a good pet!

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Submitted by That Mike on Tue, 09/27/2022 - 10:17

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There you are Oro! I thought you might have been burning your Bills jersey in the barbecue. Hey, it’s one game. (Speaking of which, your Sabres are introducing a personal favourite 3rd jersey, what I call the Dominik Hasek model) Playing Pharaoh AND Sun Ra - wow, now that’s an “adult” dose of Free Jazz.

Great info on the speakers. You must have a pretty wicked home system.

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Submitted by dmcvt on Tue, 09/27/2022 - 12:22

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Happy to see Oro's wisdom and experience here (Hola Oro!). Bookshelf speakers often get such collateral abuse, drop kicked, sun bleached, over powered with too many distorted watts... those surrounds are always the first thing to check. Next tweeter domes, have they been dinged or crinkled? Tweeters can fry quickly because of their delicate voice coils. Check replacement parts availability. Found a used set of Kef Q15s years ago, $20 each, thought just about perfect until recently, found a pair of B&W DM601s locally for $100. Significant improvement, really smooth balanced response, irresistible to an audio junkie, who cared if one cabinet had a corner dent. Both the Kefs and the B&Ws have some kind of rubber for surrounds, not foam and seem to be in fine shape for twenty somethings. They can be bi-amped as they have dual inputs, one for each driver, jumpers between for single input. To judge accurate reproduction of mid range, listen to solo piano or woman's song to check a bookshelf size speaker.

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Submitted by 1stshow70878 on Tue, 09/27/2022 - 13:03

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Yes, those two British brands get consistently excellent reviews DMCVT. It is said the rubber surrounds outlast the foam by miles but are tough to replace. And Oro I've never even heard of those top shelf brands other than Pro Audio in your modern audio realm. Blowing off the used Advents for something serviced and safe. The Infinitys made in Chatsworth, CA should suite me fine. I know that seller will do me right. Only pushing under 30W through them from the old Pioneer integrated in a bedroom they should be perfectly suited. And I've heard a pair of them recently albeit not with my system. I think that guy had a vintage Marantz 2245 playing them. Got a vintage fully restored TEAC V-5RX cassette deck showing up today for that system. Breaking the tapes out of the closet! Again many thanks to you both.
Cheers
Edit: Still kicking myself for selling my first good set of speakers, Cerwin-Vegas, when I was young. Hard to find now but boy did they rock the dormitory and a few rental houses BITD! Their moto was, "Loud Is Beautiful If It's Clean".
Edit 2: The TEAC is killer. Best deck I ever had. Tapes sound amazing. Break out the soundboards and auds. Why didn't I get a nice one BITD? Likely as I couldn't afford one then! Love the vintage!

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Submitted by Oroborous on Tue, 09/27/2022 - 14:52

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Yep, DMCVT has covered the must checks.
Another FYI. You can actually damage/blow speakers just as easy or easier with a low powered amp as high powered depending on use.
Distortion will cause additional heat, heat damages voice coils. So a low powered amp, even with matching specs, being driven into clipping (distortion) can eventually cause speaker failure, while a higher powered amp if not driven very hard will provide cleaner undistorted power AND probably provide better tone. Because it’s not clipping, it’s not heating the voice coil as much.
Obviously there are are limits to this so don’t go cranking your 1000 watt amp full blast with 100 watt speakers cause you’ll literally set them on fire!
Had this happen before: using McIntosh MC 2300 power amp with regular type speakers (60 watt) and well, worked great until we tried to see how far they’d go and so eventually started em on fire. Now, we were kinda trying to do that lol.
Another time I saw big JBL 15” PA woofer start on fire. The band was Set up in the middle of a bowling alley so no nearby walls or boundaries to enhance the bass, so sound guy over compensated and pushed em so hard one started on fire. Crazy stuff, fat lighting guy comes rushing toward the stage and tosses his pitcher of Long Island ice tea on it cause, ya know how well water and electricity mix lol. I simply reached over and unplugged the speaker. Luckily the sprinklers in the building didn’t go off because there was a looottt of smoke lol.
Think of it like a car engine, if you push a little engine too much it’ll blow, if you have a really big engine, but don’t push it, it’ll hardly break a sweat.
Infinity is another I’ve heard of, but not so sure I’ve heard? As previously said, ya never now for sure what things will sound like until you hook it all up. That being said, you can often get a feel for the product by doing a little online research. Check places like Audiogon etc, with a grain of salt as there’s just as much bad Intell out there as good. But you can usually get a general idea of the products main characteristics. Like if 23 outta 42 reviews say they sound tinny, well they might be tinny etc. look for folks who say “ I used to have those and loved them” etc.

Same with your hearing: you can cause hearing damage just as easy with not so loud music if it has lots of distortion, where conversely, you can listen to really loud music that’s super clean and not hurt yourself. Like you can listen to a really loud classical orchestra with no problem, but a really distorted metal band, even if not super loud can cause damage after sustained exposure. Another beautiful thing about the Dead, they could get really loud, but you wouldn’t even know it unless you tried to talk to the person next to you!
Good luck whichever way you go!

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Submitted by Vguy72 on Tue, 09/27/2022 - 20:41

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....been to a couple of those.
The sound at the Sabaton show was perfect. I'm not busting out the earplugs quite yet.
Got Roger Waters here Saturday.
My friend bought the tix over two years ago.
About this time last year, he texted me. "You ready for Roger?"
I checked the website.
"Dude. It's next year!"
Imagine arriving at T-Mobile Arena and going......"Uhhhh." 🤣
And The Sphere is taking shape.
Look it up. Rumors are U2 are going to cut the ribbon.

I haven't bothered to go to a Seattle Mariners game for several years.

I went tonight, though.

I was reminded why I haven't gone for so long.

Weak, limp, anemic baseball.

Ugh.

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Submitted by Oroborous on Wed, 09/28/2022 - 07:11

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We did that Vguy. Early eighties Wild Bill or some such character said there were shows in Harshford. With no internet etc we didn’t know, someone said there was a show so we just decided to go. Needless to say when we got there it was aaaaa, surprise! But hey, it wasn’t all bad, we got a big box of donuts and enjoyed the ride lol

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Submitted by That Mike on Wed, 09/28/2022 - 08:06

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Hunker down Florida, as this monster Ian approaches. Be safe. As for those that hit the climate change panic button with every catastrophe, know that these hurricanes have been around at least as long as Europeans have travelled the Seven Seas. There are no reliable written records of Indigenous peoples prior to these times to confirm (although oral history is quite prevalent among First Nations peoples the world over), but the belief is many of the natural weather phenomenon have always existed time immemorial. In fact, the first recorded history of the word “hurricane” was 1555, long before the Industrial Revolution. Sometimes truth matters.

Roger Waters - hard pass. Major dick.

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Submitted by PT Barnum on Wed, 09/28/2022 - 08:54

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from the Good Old Grateful Dead to killer speakers and audio set ups to hockey to football to pets to...climate change denial?
I also own a pair of B&W's and they are just the cat's meow. They pair excellently with my Altec Lansing 890 bookshelf speakers. I have seen jbl's blow, no fire, but definitely a meltdown, they sound good but are very delicate, a close friend had a pair suspended from his ceiling, not the best but ok.
Sorry for your loss, pets are the hardest things to lose, sometimes harder than a human. People can let you down, your pet, never.
To all you folks who live in Florida, take my word for it, you don't want to mess around with hurricanes. I survived hurricane Charley in 04, it hit with 145 mph winds, took out the power as it hit Orlando, you could see power transformers blowing up all over the place, blue flashes in the black night. The eye wall approached and hit, the 40 ft pine trees in my backyard snapped off at about 12 ft above the ground, all of them, crashing down all around us, just missing my house but taking out my neighbors right next door. The wind blew so hard, it sounded just like a train, very loud. As it passed, the eye went over, it was clear, calm and you could see stars, then the other side hit, the wind going in the complete opposite direction, finishing off the rest of the trees. Charley was moving at 25 mph and it was over in 40 mins, but the damage was done, no power for 9 days, 103 degrees in my house with no breeze. Had to go to work anyway, had to take cold showers in the dark, had to drive all over the city to find ice to keep some things cool. We left Florida 4 years later. This storm is moving at 5 mph, this will last days and the damage will be bad.
Living in Florida for over 30 years I saw it change from a beautiful, clean paradise to a used up tourist trap. They have been doing studies in Tampa for years about salt water encroachment of the aquifer that provides the drinking water to most of the state, it has increased dramatically in recent years. Now they are having trouble with the saltwater encroaching upon the underground utilities, drain systems, etc as some days, during high tide, the water will come out of the storm drains, and spill out into the street, this is all from rising sea levels that are increasing yearly. Global warming has caused this, and it has also had an effect on the intensity of hurricanes. For 30 years, hurricanes meant "a little wind, a little rain" those days are over. Hurricanes are now more frequent and more powerful due to warming of the atmosphere. Look it up.

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Submitted by Crow Told Me on Wed, 09/28/2022 - 09:41

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I wish we could stay off politics in this space.

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Submitted by Angry Jack Straw on Wed, 09/28/2022 - 10:02

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I might be in the minority here, but I hate those old black and red jerseys. The logo too. It reminds me of Trump's hairdoo. And that was not a political statement.

It also conjures up memories of Brett Hull's goal. I don't like that either.

I love floor standing speakers and more importantly the sound they throw off. Maybe I am old school as well, but I do get a certain satisfaction when I walk into the basement and see how their presence almost dominates the room. I own Klipsch and have for years. I have often considered "upgrading", but I am not sure how much more benefit I would derive or what would be the best brand. The other concern is that if I did upgrade, should I go the full route and purchase separate components and upgrade my receiver as well? Thoughts are welcomed.

Two things I have learned listening to the GD channel over the past few weeks:

- The meaning of syncopation and why it is important. I have no musical aptitude.

- That I prefer my Grateful Dead with a single drummer and a grand piano. And I am proud to admit that.

Yes. Pets are the best.

Be safe Floridians.

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Submitted by Gary Farseer on Wed, 09/28/2022 - 10:05

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It's been about a year since the discussions of stereos and such. There was also a discussion at that time about HDCD.

On HDCD, I remember SimonRob posting that all he knows is that a light comes on. Last year at this time an old trusted cd/dvd crapped out. As y'all were talking about HDCD, I started looking for a HDCD player. I stumbled on to an old Denon cd/dvd player with HDCD compatibility. I bought the unit on ebay and with tax and shipping, it was only $90 (no remote). Well, I have a blackweb universal remote and the remote is programmable with the Denon unit. This unit arrived around October 5th or so last year. So as it was anniversary time for the Warlocks, that was the first concerts I played thru the Denon. Immediately, I found the sound enhancement was very noticeable. With HDCD, most of the expansion is in the mid to upper frequencies, which expanded the soundstage and headroom of the disks. I fell instantly in love and thank Dead.net for continuing to master in HDCD.

I also discussed before I bought the Denon, my own stereo which I am extremely happy with. Again, 6 JBL speakers running through a large Yamaha Natural Sound Amp, with the sub frequency cross-over set at 82 Hz. The 82 Hertz cross-over is almost identical to what George Lucas had for his THX movie theater certifications. I assume most know that a cross-over is not a fixed point as there are frequencies above 82Hz the sub powers, and below 82 Hz that the Yamaha powers. However, when you cut off or cross-over the sub unit, you remove a lot or most of the work done by the Yamaha amp, which frees up the Yamaha to produce even more crystal clear frequencies as the Yamaha has been freed from trying to push the JBL's for the low end. This means much cleaner reproduction.

I post this because I just finished re foaming the woofer surrounds on the JBL 10" woofers. They sound great now, no slight buzz or anything. It was well worth the effort. I used My Audio Addiction to acquire the re foam 10" surrounds. They may be the biggest retail provider of speaker parts kits. It is there name, all one string, at .kom. They also have tutorials on youtube, and also will fix them for you (much more than just foam surrounds), if you ship them to Audio Addiction.

As an aside, I have pondered replacing the JBL 10" woofers with a set of old Pyle Driver woofers that I have had for 35+ years, but haven't used in about a decade. The Pyle Driver's magnets are enormous. I mentioned this to a bass player friend of mine, he only said, "You have to be careful as JBL tuned those speakers with their woofers, and a larger magnet might throw some things out of balance." Not sure about that, may still do it at some point, but adding the 12" powered subwoofer by svsound changed everything. The amp inside the svs sub is a class D power amp. From what I can tell, most large P.A. systems are now moving to powered speaker systems with class D power built in. I think it makes configuring a system (like Meyer and Featherstone (?)) did with the FTW shows.

Any way, way too much, will post and edit.

Hope all are ready for In and Out of the Garden (Burger). I know I am, but will still listen to 43 one more time this weekend before I break out that box.

G

So first edit done, still needs work.

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Submitted by Charlie3 on Wed, 09/28/2022 - 10:08

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... the hurricane that hit Galveston in 1900 was a Category 4 and was, and may still be, the deadliest weather disaster in US history, with 8000 dead. So, a little more than just a little wind, a little rain even back in 1900. There are a number of other historic hurricanes over the last hundred years that were devastating as well, the National Hurricane Center of NOAA has a list of some of the most notable.

If you look at the records of frequency of hurricanes and tropical storms it is not entirely clear that the frequency or intensity has actually increased since the 1800s, and the effort to determine the historic frequency of these storms is complicated by the fact that our monitoring has improved so that many hurricanes that don't make landfall were likely not observed or recorded prior to our more modern monitoring abilities. Thus, our improved monitoring abilities means that we detect, observe, and record hurricanes that don't make landfall and would have likely been missed in the historic record, thereby causing an increase in the number of observed hurricanes, while leaving open the possibility that the increase is not a reflection of an actual increase in the total number of storms.

National Hurricane Center data indicates that the decade 1941-1950 has the highest number of hurricanes that made landfall in the US at 24 total and 10 major hurricanes (Saffir-Simpson category 3 or higher) that made landfall that decade. The tie for runner up decade goes to the decades 2001-2010 and 2011-2020 which both had 19 total hurricanes that made landfall, with 2001-2010 having 7 storms listed as category 3 or higher, and 2011-2020 having 6 storms listed as category 3 or higher. The hurricane landfall data also indicates that "Before the Gulf of Mexico and Atlantic coasts became settled, hurricanes may have been underestimated in their intensity or missed completely for small-sized systems (i.e., 2004's Hurricane Charley)." The reported storm intensity does not appear to be significantly different in these decades, but of course, I haven't run a statistical analysis, just a quick comparison of reported storm intensities from NOAA resources. Of course, even within the resources provided by NOAA you can find some variation in reported storm strength, for example, the categorization of storm strength in the "US Hurricane Strikes by Decade" table on the National Hurricane Center page appears slightly different compared to the "US Hurricane Impact / Landfalls" table provided by the Hurricane Research Division, so this is just a quick review of some of the readily available data from NOAA.

I suppose you could call this "climate change denial", but I prefer to think of it as a simple review of the hurricane data readily available from NOAA. You can draw your own conclusions from the data, or head on over to NOAA and do a deeper dive in the data. But hurricanes were always more than a little wind and a little rain.

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Submitted by That Mike on Wed, 09/28/2022 - 10:21

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I just want to clarify, then I’ll drop it, as I wasn’t trying to set off alarms, I am just weary of “fear” being used to wage social change now. I wasn’t denying climate change. Way too much irrefutable evidence supporting it, and as a great believer in science, I support it. However, I find every dramatic event - climate, economic, Covid - is gaining oxygen from fear. Every outcome is predicated on fear.

Sometimes it’s hot out just because it is. I went for probably my 20th MRI last evening, and the nurse was debating if I should wear a mask, for fear of….infecting myself in a chamber the size of a coffin!?!? Fear has gotten out of hand, was my only point. Not going politics at all, I should have articulated my thoughts better.
I do sincerely wish Floridians to stay safe.

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Submitted by PT Barnum on Wed, 09/28/2022 - 10:39

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during my time in Florida, it was always just a little wind and rain, never experienced a full-on hurricane until Charley in 04, but for 30 plus years before that, they were just a slight annoyance. Based on personal experience, not going back to the beginning of recorded hurricane history, just my personal experience. I loved hurricane season until 04, always good to check the fields right after a storm. Back in 96 I think it was, there was a storm named "Jerry" that formed off the coast, floated into central florida, moved back out to sea, returned a few days later, that was a great week. enough of that ok, hunker down everyone in the path of this monster storm.
Gary, Oro, you guys are true audiophiles, and I'm sure there are others here that I don't mean to fail to mention, I used to pour over audio books and visit audiophile shops back in the day, nothing better than good clean clear loud sound, especially Grateful Dead.

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Submitted by Mr. Ones on Wed, 09/28/2022 - 10:57

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To my understanding, it's not the storms that are being caused by global warming. It's the frequency and intensity of the storms that global warming is affecting.

Now, saw Nick Mason's Saucerful of Secrets show(I also saw the previous tour), and I'm surprised no one is talking about that. Great show, great band, fantastic song selection.

Finally, time for a little Steppenwolf, since we're on the subject of bands that don't get much mention on here.

Waiting for the Dave's 44 announcement. Should be about 3 1/2 weeks away.

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Submitted by 1stshow70878 on Wed, 09/28/2022 - 11:46

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(The classic 1948 movie) is as close as this landlubber has ever come to a hurrican, (drop the e) as my wife's G-ma used to pronounce it. She was one of those who never evacuated although they were well positioned inland in Jacksonville and never had more than some shingles fly off. I'm sure she was one of those a little rain, a little wind folks. Rokko, Edward G. Robinson's character, was a tough guy until he felt one then scared to death of the thing. I got uneasy even standing next to a choppy sea. It's just so big it scares me. True landlubber.
I have heard that train roar though as a kid in St. Louis tornados. Fascinated me and my Mom would have to pull me away from the window because I just had to see what could make that much noise.
Best of luck FLA. Cheers

Edit: I stand corrected. My wife says G-ma was forced out by flooding from the nearby St. Johns River at least once.

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