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  • proudfoot
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    Mixes

    One thing about audience recordings...not a lot of mix issues.

    Like 10 6 80.

    High energy with no political commentary filler.

  • narutlee
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    Mixes

    With all these talks of sound mixes. 2 tracks and so on. Wonder if it's financially feasible for GD to employ the "AI" technology that was used on The Beatles "Get Back" movie and the upcoming "Revolver" remix. As I understand it, a technology was used to separate out different parts of the sound so they can be mix separately, which no one could do before because of the "tracks" limitation. For example, if brent, bobby, and phil were all recorded on one track - the original mix (how loud each instrument was in the mix) is it, it's all we got. If the keyboard is drowning out everything else, there's no way to fix it no matter how many times anyone remaster it, because that's the master! But I believe this new technology can separate each instrument out to its own track, and then they can be remix and give us a more balanced sound.

    I guess it's depend on how much more we're willing to pay to employ this tech!

  • Oroborous
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    In other words

    There is nothing anyone can do about changing the levels of individual instruments on these recordings.
    What Mickey or whomever was doing was helping with remastering, which is something completely different.

    And really, I’ve heard and read Bobbie clearly stating that “we’ve all been asleep too long” and even more straight up political call to get involved before it’s too late. Yes nobody likes this, but that’s how fucked up it’s getting.
    I mean how desperate do things have to get before it’s ok to mention uncomfortable stuff?
    So just keep burying your head in the sand and soon we won’t be allowed to talk like this at all!
    The futures here, we are it, we are on our own!

  • Oroborous
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    Strangestofplaces

    and others.
    For the eighteenth time: these are not professionally recorded multi track recordings!!
    They were NEVER intended to be released!
    They are 2 channel (stereo) tapes that were produced by Dan Healy as a tool to help him with his work.
    That work was to make the band sound good live in concert, not your living room!
    Consequently, sometimes the mix might not make sense in your living room. I,e., if the stage instruments are really loud, the mixer won’t need to boost as much through the PA. Thus, those instruments might not seem loud enough on the tape, or in your living room. Furthermore, the first song is always unbalanced, sometimes it takes a good chunk of the first set, as the mix is dependent on how loud or quiet the signal sent by the musician is: if Jerry hasn’t turned up yet, then he won’t seem loud enough. During the first song the mixer is mostly trying to get the vocals going, and bringing the overall levels up, so he’s not going to worry about messing with JGs level too much knowing that JG will turn himself up when he wants to. When you mix the same band all the time, you don’t turn all the knobs back to zero after each show, you leave things generally where they are (or will you know they’ll need to be) and then fine tune the next night as needed. Basically, he sets levels approximately where they’ll end up and let’s the band grow into them if you will.
    With Beatty boards etc, there was a dedicated person, who was able to create a mix specifically for making a recording, unfortunately later on the tapes were not made like this so sometimes they have more noticeable anomalies.
    Since this is baked into the 2 track only tape, THERE IS NO WAY TO FIX IT!
    It is what it is, caveat emptor as these releases used to clearly warn!

    Now it it was a multitrack tape (meaning most instruments have their own channel on the tape which can be individually modified later on, and something was disproportionately low in the release mix, THEN you’d have a point, but since it’s only a 2 channel tape made as an afterthought, not intended for release, you have to take it or leave it.

    OFF TOPIC: really DR, your going to criticize about that? The guy who usually talks about anything BUT GD?
    I mean no offense but if some of us have to hear about Hawkwind again we’re gonna puke!

  • Angry Jack Straw
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    Political Comments

    Please keep them off the board. Despite what was said earlier, the GD was not a political band. Very much to the contrary. Encouraging people to vote is not being political.

    Let's keep our comments to the poor sound/mix quality of the MSG box.

    Thank you.

  • 1stshow70878
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    The Mix

    When the Dick's Picks were coming out, likely still the ones Dick picked, I remember hearing that Mickey was helping the crew with the remastering-mixing. It made sense because I've always thought they were a bit drum heavy. It is still that way but not to the degree that's as noticeable. Plus I've changed equipment now so maybe that's all it was to begin with.
    Did my civic duty yesterday. Colorado has been vote by mail for years now thank goodness. But I don't get the cool sticker that says I voted.
    Cheers, let's go out and make it a good one.

  • PT Barnum
    Joined:
    happened to me

    just got censored by MSN and Microsoft for agreeing with, shall we say, patriots, who stated the truth about what is going down. It's already happening and let's hope they stay away from this site.

  • PT Barnum
    Joined:
    Strange...

    I concur with your statement ie Jerry. I wonder if Jer was alive, if these remasters would sound different? I think the remaining members might be an influence. For sure, I don't have any knowledge of that being said anywhere, just wondering?

  • Oroborous
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    Desperate Times…

    …call for desperate measures.
    Make sure you vote or we soon might not be allowed to, and what we do here might not be allowed either…

  • Strang3stofplaces
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    Jerry low in the mix

    From the listening party Stranger, it sounds like Jerry is kind of buried in the mix, and absolutely not the first time I've heard that on a remastered release. Take the slipknot from 10/12/83 off the recent box, for example. Not sure if I'm the only one who feels like this, but isn't a lead guitar supposed to "lead"? Obviously I understand the whole ethos of the Dead's music, that they were going for a more united sound, but it seems kind of detractive for Bob's "rhythm" notes to be overshadowing Jerry's lines. I understand that Norman mixes the remaster democratically, but again, what's a lead guitar for if not for the spotlight? I read once that Norman doesn't raise Jerry's levels on any remaster because "he was already loud enough", but if you're normalizing the levels across the board, he just gets lost in the fray. Another thing I wanna point out is that Jerry wasn't the leader of the grateful dead, he always made a point of shying away from that, but let's be honest, who was the one people deified when he was alive and more so after he passed? Shouldn't that be somewhat reflected in the remastering? I just feel that Jerry's leads should be overpowering and yet, I've got the volume turned up as much as I can without sacrificing fidelity just to hear what he was playing, and even then, I've gotta really focus on him for that. Anyway, rant over, just thought I'd share my two cents. Not even sure if this is the right place to do so, despite it being the forum for Dave's 44, as the subject matter tends to talk about nearly anything but the release itself. The grateful dead were always a political band, to be sure, but it'd be great if these forums could try to focus on the music, reddit does exist after all.

    Thanks and I'm really not trying to be a d**k with the ending there

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3 years 7 months

....been slacking, so I decided on GD 6.22.73 Vancouver. It's fours discs. One for each bedroom.
Regarding vax-deniers. Yeah. I have a strong opinion regarding them. My body my choice, unless it's regarding abortions, then "how dare you!"
Lame.
There is a reason there wasn't a red wave. Conservatives are out of touch and want it to be the 50's again.
Not happening. Maybe put forth some legislation that helps the younger generation. Stuff other than "owning the libs" and "these books are toxic" and "go woke go broke" and "religion ahead of politics" and "liberals are grooming your kids to become gay."
Some guy in Texas put forth a bill banning social media to people under 18 years old ffs. How do you plan to enforce that?
Smaller government my ass.
I could go on and on and on.
My political post of the month.

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Get scored on by Saad while CO has a power play.
Sad alright. Then they waste the rest of the PP.
Then a quick goal to even it up. Where was that for 3 periods?
OT. Better put on some Dead for luck.
My STL buddy will never let me live it down.
Cheers
Oh, and the Donkeys are getting their clock cleaned by KC. Maybe next year already.

Metallica albums 2, 3, 4 please
Megadeth whatever I have heard so far

mix 'em up into one big pan of specialized brownies with vanilla frosting, give me a glass of milk, and lemme rock. (get it? get it? "Lemmy" rock? HAHAHAHAHA!!) Ha....

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Just because.

Paul Weller-Wild Wood
Paul Weller-Paul Weller
Chrome Universal-A Survey Of Modern Pedal Steel
Kantner/Starship-Blows Against The Empire
REM Live-2-disc set from 2007

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In reply to by Mr. Ones

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Give 9/6/80 a listen. Hot.

Any of you esteemed folks have the good fortune of having attended?

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Mornin', rockers!!!

Lewiston? You bet, my friends and I were there for this very very fine show. End of summer, outdoors, Maine, other fine musicians (if I recall correctly, Levon Helm and Roy Buchanon), and our heros, the Grateful Dead. Big fun!!! Looking back over 22 years of going to shows, this one was one of the most enjoyable........

At the time, it seemed like a very long show. So-so soundboards of the first set have circulated for a long, long time, never run across top notch soundboards of the whole show. It would make a very nice nice official release some day!

Every day that is born into the world comes like a burst of music and rings the whole day through, and you make of it a dance, a dirge, or a life march, as you will......

Rock on,

Doc
Music is the art of the prophets and the gift of God......

My final Dead concert, indeed a very fine one, outdoors on a very warm late summer day. We were down front for a while, local friends worked as security for the show, shout out to Dave A. The atmosphere was fantastic, a long lovely afternoon into evening event, we were practically weeping with joy. A little like the Dead were playing in my back yard. Also my farewell to Maine, moved to Vermont right after. The so called state fairgrounds was a harness racing track, about to become obsolete because of Scarborough Downs. Knew Lewiston well, years as a student at Bates in the early 70s, a fair share of that at Lou's Place, the pub just next door to the track. Makes me smile to know that Doc11, whom I have never met was at this event and as well, Doc ran around this very area I inhabit now many moons ago while he was at Dartmouth. Fresh snow yesterday Doc, hope its not too hot down there in FL.

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In reply to by dmcvt

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Your final GD show?

After Lewiston, I would have gone to a few others. But I don't know your whole story.

Anyway...September 6, 1980. A date that will live in utter joy.

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Jam after Alligator. Sixtus put me on this one a while back. Good call.

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A Winter land 1977/1978 box set is a possibility. There are shows from March and December for 1977 and shows from October 1978. They could combine both years, good shows.

Hard to say exactly why, Proudfoot, fell off the bus after I moved in 1980. The repertoire had changed, the jams not as compelling to me. Deep into jazz, a different vibe, what was happening with Jerry and shakedown scene was concerning, etc. People in the music business told crazy stories familiar by now. The death of Lowell George in 1979 had hit too close to home, more than I can say. Who knew George would show up on Gomer Pyle a couple days after the release of the Dead's first album? Eventually the early Dicks Picks brought me back on. One toe in that water, next thing I knew... and now, BTK has me thinking Winterland... setting the wayback machine for March 18, 1967, it runs fast, Bobby sounds so young, up front... Smokestack, Viola, lots of Pig, so primal.

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Like everyone else here, Lewiston would make a GRATE official release.

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This is a cool show that would make a great release. It has version of the Golden Road, not many of those out there.

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12 years 1 month

In reply to by billy the kiddd

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Sorry about your boy, Eichel. That was a bad trade.

Lewiston. What a great show. One of the first tapes I ever had. Right after Cornell. Maine is probably my favorite state to see a show. Never had a bad time there.

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In reply to by Angry Jack Straw

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....lower body injury. He'll be back. But yeah. The injuries in general are piling up. Went to the game against the Flyers Friday.
And the Dolphins continue to Dolphin. To say I've seen this movie before is an understatement.
100% behind an official Lewiston release. Grate show. Long too.

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In reply to by billy the kiddd

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I used to have a hissy tape of this show back in the day. Hopefully it wouldn't put them off releasing shows of this vintage if they had them, but in less than optimum sound quality. Hopefully it wouldn't put people off buying them too. Golden Road is right.

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3-18-67 is in the Vault in outstanding sound quality, based on The Same Thing by Pig from that show released on the 5-disc So Many Roads box.

What would be so wrong about releasing 3-18-67 (87 minutes) and a fall '67 show of similar length, toss in a stray dog track (no full show) and call it a DaP?

Otherwise that early stuff is gonna languish in the Vault without a plan.

In other words, I COMMAND YOU OH DAVE L!!

I tend to forget about that "So Many Roads" box. 3/18/67 would make a perfect Dave's Picks with another show attached from 1967. I'd be more for that than another 1977 show. Or another two 1977 shows for that matter.

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no Jimmy Herring but everyone else in attendance at the Xmas Jam in Asheville. Check out the setlist for Phil and Phriends at Jambands. com

Open Sesame Dave L, the genie has been commanded, time to release a few of these early primals as a 3CD collage, DaP46?, we know they will clean up as HF documents. Less than a week after I saw Jimi at the Washington Hilton in DC, March 1968, he was cutting his teeth on guitar strings up in Lewiston, Maine at the Armory.

I still say lump it all in a big primal box (67-70) and get it out before we croak!
Times running out, screw this trickling out the vault!
Smithers, release the reels!

Yeah DR, anything but 77 at this point…

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Bro, I did a feature article on that show for Univibes: The International Jimi Hendrix Magazine by interviewing a few folks who attended, plus photographer John Gossage who shot the heck out of it. I have three of his excellent B&W pics framed on my living room wall.

Do you remember the "Chicken Man" incident?

Don't believe we have a legit tape of that show, tho a boot purports to be it.

Roy Buchanan attended one of the shows, but accounts that claim he and Jimi jammed later have been credibly refuted.

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Just watched a very cool documentary about Paul Butterfield and his band called "Horn from the Heart." Highly recommend this on the utuube. Lots of interviews with band mates Elvin Bishop and others tell a great story.

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NiteCat, that Paul Butterfield documentary sounds very cool, Butter field is one of my favorite harp players. Thanks, I will definitely check that out!

Meteors are out tonight... Have told some of this story before here, so please forgive repeat and long version... hung with a group of high school friends deep into music, tuned in and up to speed with what was going on... one was Bob Ewan, who became Bobby Radcliff, blues guitarist, after he went to Chicago to study with Magic Sam. Somehow Bob got picked to drive Jimi Hendrix around DC for his first visit in August 1967 when he played the Ambassador Theater. Bob was fifteen at the time, so did not have his drivers license. Listened to Are You Experienced summer into fall 67 with rapture, could not believe what Jimi was doing on guitar. After Axis was released late in 67, when friends heard Jimi was coming back to DC, we bought tickets ($4) to the March 10th 1968 Hilton show. My father drove us down there, no license yet, we ate red Lebanese hash before hand because reefer at the time really stank, so obvious. General admission on folding chairs in the ballroom, we were about tenth row. Soft Machine opened the show, there was a light show called the Mark Boyle Sense Laboratory, brief pause then Jimi, Mitch and Noel came out and the place went nuts. Yes, at one point a guy with a chicken head mask climbed on stage and tackled Jimi who kept playing as if nothing happened. We were convinced it was staged, part of of the show. There are recordings of this show, horrible audio quality, the entire set was only about 45 minutes. A detailed account of how the chicken head thing came to happen was published not long ago by the Washington Post, a prank by college kids. Saw Jimi again later on at the Baltimore Civic Center, no chicken head. Will surf the web for those photos... began to take my camera to many shows not long after, have good photos of Roy B, decent ones of my first Dead show at Baltimore Civic Center spring 1973... many others, checked but could not find probable you in the Friday afternoon Watkins Glen shots.

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In reply to by proudfoot

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One of the earliest excerpts of 1966 I have heard/seen is the dvd of the Acid Test from 1/8/66. Plenty of live Dead, and a bit of hickey between Pigpen and the Pranksters - "Hey man, stop yo babbling and fix these microphones". Really good sound quality - if it's on youtube, definitely worth checking out. It would be a great addition if this film, and any others like it, could be included in a box of early Dead.

Those Soft Machine shows with the Mark Boyle light show circa 1968 are legendary in their own right. Together with Pink Floyd, Soft Machine seem to have been one of the main live bands of early British psych. Never really given due credit.

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Stop press its 09/09/72 👍🏻

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Yep, I just saw my email from Dead.net. DaP 46 looks great. I think several of you were calling for a fall 1972 show so there it is . I have not heard 9/9/72 so I am going to hold off until I get my copy in the mail. It seems like 9/19/72 only has audience sources in circulation (I could be wrong) so that will be nice to get some snippets from that show. We already got the big jam form 9/3/72 so bonus disc will round out some of that.

At this point for me, I am open to any show that is released from any era. However, I will not lie about the fact that I am extra excited for DaP 45 & 46 as 1977 and 1972 are my favorite years of the GD. Maybe number 47 will be an 85 show (or two). That would hit the sweet spot for me. However it doesn't really matter anyway.

Once again, thank you Dave L and crew!

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Sept '72 is as good as it gets without the grease, so this will be a huge release.

However, the release of portions of my first show (9-19-72) confirms that they've given up the search for the missing reel and I have to surmise that the OSF now knows the contents of the banana boxes and the missing 9-19-72 reel is not there.

Oh well, guess I'll just have to enjoy four hours of Sept '72 and the several hundred other shows I have in pristine sound quality............... you win some, you lose some. Though a portion of my first show is hardly losing.

P.S. Wonder what this selection means for the year's box set? Not gonna be fall '72. So, maybe a 50th Summer '73? Plenty of material, between entire barn-burning shows and uneven though iconic shows (Watkins Glen main performance).

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Let me take your coat for you, welcome, welcome. We haven't seen the likes of you since the St. Louis box set, and even that wasn't enough.

Any '72 is great '72. Still, I wondered why he chose the Palladium show from the 9th as opposed to the next night w/Dark Star. The Dark Star fanatic in me always wants the Dark Star show, and Dave certainly likes a good Dark Star. I have a solid SBD from the 10th. So I checked out archive.org and learned David Crosby was a guest on the 10th. I have a feeling that played a lrole in the release decision. First world issues.

I'm usually not too keen when they include duplicate songs on the Bonus Disc, but I would be happy with both Bird Songs from the two incomplete shows, 9/3 & 9/19. That would give us three 1972 Bird Songs in one release. YES. I am o-freaking-kay with that. They were playing the most killer Bird Songs in this timeframe. It would certainly make up for 4 discs of 1972 and no Dark Star.

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In reply to by KeithFan2112

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I don’t know this show but I’ve NEVER heard anyone discuss it.
I mean we have some serious fall 72 nuts here (yeah, I’m looking at you Mr PC), and out of all the shows folks discuss I’ve never heard a word about it?
So that and no Dark Star has me worried that once again he’s picked a good city and street, but gone to the wrong house! I’m sure I’ll dig it, I always do, but with no Dark Star etc Im not sure how much rotation it’ll get?
First world whining to be sure lol

Good stories DMCVT, keep ‘em coming por favor!

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In reply to by Oroborous

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Great that another show from this timespan is being released. I would get anything from this era without hesitating. Pity it's coming out under the Dave's Picks banner though, with a bonus disc that you can only buy if you subscribe. Needless to say, I would love to get the bonus disc, but I wouldn't buy the two October 77 shows if I had the choice, and not knowing what is in the pipeline, I can't be sure number 47 and 48 would be to my liking, either. So I guess I have to decide if it's worth subscribing and getting shows I don't want, for the one bonus disc I do. I don't like this buy one, get one free approach at all.

I know I could subscribe and then sell the ones I don't want online - but I have never sold anything this way, and can't really be bothered looking into how you do it.

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that a fall '72 box was "inevitable" -- I believe that's the word he used. And, yes, I leapt to the bait like a trout to the fly! Dave said that maybe 4-5 years ago and, knowing Dave as well as I do (I don't know the guy at all), he says all kinds of things but that doesn't mean they're gonna happen. So, a mere 4-5 hours of sacred Sept '72 will just have to suffice until such time as "They" decide on a fall '72 box.

So, what's the speculation or wish list for the coming year's box? "They" gotta do a Wake of the Flood 50th, right? Is the bonus show with that all the '73 they're gonna muster in 2023? Perhaps.

That is all.

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So, following up the excellent and dud-free 2022 sub series, we're starting off 2023 with 2 shows from '77 and then 4 discs from fall '72? Yes, please.

Announcing releases from '77 and '72 certainly seems like a good way to drive up subscription sales. You guys are a lot more knowledgeable than I am about what's good and still in the vault from those periods, but all I can say is I've never heard a "bad" show from either year.

Box sets? I have no idea how or if what's issued on the DaP series impacts their thinking about possible boxes. But I sure like some of the suggestions I'm hearing. A summer '73 box? Or a '60s set? Just take all my money, now.

Last five:
King Crimson: The Great Deceiver
Blind Willie McTell: Death Cell Blues
Neil Young: Noise & Flowers
Jefferson Airplane: After Bathing at Baxter's
John McLaughlin: Extrapolation

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I once pooh-pooh'd all the speculation on what's next, and now, for some reason, I'm the very worst speculator. And obviously my "great ideas" are pretty obvious attempts at mining the Vault. Primal box? Pretty easy to want that. Summer '73 box? Obvious. I mean, what the hay, how about '69 box?

And I sit here with several prodigous stacks of CDs ordered in the past two months. Tampa Red, BB King's earliest singles, a couple Dylan that previously escaped me, Pee Wee Crayton, Lonnie Johnson, Rev. Gary Davis -- I'm up to my keister in music.

But with the GD, it's more of a downright mania.....

So the next time I write "That is all," brace yourself for more to come.

Mmk. I don't think I have ever heard it, bring it on.

"first thing you learn" (though) "is that you always gotta wait"

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Is anyone else having trouble checking your order status? I ordered my subscription right away when it was announced. Now it does not recognize my order number, email, or zip code.

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Hey SGD1977, I had the same problem until I entered the 9-digit zip code (5 + 4) that I was prompted to use when I first placed my order for both the Dave's subscription and also for Ace. Hope maybe that'll help. Onward.

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Hey rockers!!!

People come to music to seek oblivion: is that not also a form of deception?

I listened to the highlights of 9/9/72 on my commute home. Very fine stuff, especially Bird Song and Truckin'. It is definitely "of a kind" with the other shows from the Fall of 1972. Which means it's really really good music, enjoyable, and worthy of release.

Is it classic? Well, maybe not, but that's OK. Is it a step down from the creamy intensity of the Europe 72 tour? Well, maybe, but that's OK too. I predict that fans of this time period will really like it.

As far as releasing "fragments" of shows, I'm OK with that. It's a remnant, a holdover from my years of trading tapes. We often had only fragments of shows, but enjoyed them anyways. Just because something is "incomplete", does that mean it shouldn't be released so we can enjoy it? Decide for yourselves......

Music is the expression of the movement of the waters, the play of curves described by changing breezes.......

Rock on,

Doc
I wish to sing of my interior visions with the naive candour of a child........

.... I'm Ok with any release really. Feed me Seymour.
Covid isn't done. Multiple co-workers out with it. Vegas is an incubator for viruses/diseases. For obvious reasons.
Gonna check out Guillermo Del Toro's Pinocchio tonight. Stop motion is my kryptonite and Del Toro is incredible.

Glad to hear that others are not opposed. I’ve never had a problem with it.

Now send us 9/19/70. Just be sure to include the DS and Not Fade. Thank you.

Someone brought up the So Many Roads box recently. That is an absolutely fantastic release and is nothing but fragments.

As is Ladies and Gentleman . . .

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Fragments of of 1967, 68, 69, & 70, would make a killer box set!

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Just read on that one particular site that someone had an email exchange with Dave L years ago in which DL responded that they have 5 of 6 reels of 9-19-72 in the Vault, missing one reel.

Aaaaarrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just doing a tragic operatic turn this morning. I suppose if that one reel shows up they could put out the whole show. But if it doesn't, how about 5 of 6 reels??

Now, THAT's a fragment!

Oh yeah, got on here to write: fragments = good. But include shows for which they have nearly complete reels. 5 of 6 is good with me.

Why is it that my first show is so important? Is it like losing one's virginity?

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