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    marye
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    New year, new update. Tell us of your musical adventures in real time!

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  • Oroborous
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    The sound

    Of thick air...

  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    The sound

    Of thick air...

  • uncle_tripel
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    always...

    ...avoided the NR on recording
    and found very early the highs just got too muted for my ear,

    returning to some more 1978 this week:
    june 4th 1978
    at Campus Stadium, UCSB in Santa Barbara, Ca

    some more friends of the devils? lol...
    ...= the "on stage" harley davidson acceleration into--->NFA

    make LOVE, not war!

    PEACE!
    uncle_tripel

    PS: new avatar = mickey & jerry on 7/4/86 @ Rich Stadium

  • JimInMD
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    Noise Reduction and...

    I used Dolby for a brief blink of an eye when I first started copying tapes. Being young and naive, I thought who wants tape noise to come through on the recording, duh.. no brainer, I flipped the Dolby switch on my Nak and hit record. I just want to hear the music, no hiss.

    Very quickly reality set in. Was it Dolby A or Dolby B? Was the source tape recording using Dolby, if so, if you hit Dolby wouldn't it further compress the recording and further alter the sound, you can't play back using Dolby Squared, right? And what do you do in the car, in the boom box (yes.. we were just a few years out of 8 tracks when I started getting tapes). And who really flips or unflips the Dolby switch anyway based on how you think the recording was made. After all, were all these tapes properly notated every step of the way.

    So I quickly gave up on noise reduction, I had a good enough tape deck that I shouldn't be so worried about tape noise. I quit Dolby and never looked back (and never worried about pressing the Dolby button again).

    Just spit balling here, but my prejudices sometimes come to the surface when I hear a Dicks or Daves or Road Trips that sounds a bit muffled and I wonder if the particular Reel or Cassette or Betamax or whatever might have had a Dolby snafu baked in. To be clear, I have no proof this has ever occurred, I just wonder sometimes.

    I should emphasize Jeffrey Norman / David Glasser, etc. have gotten better at their jobs. So if there is any compression or noise reduction used anywhere along the way, they better at making this music sound as good as it possibly can, regardless of the sordid history of the source tapes. Thank you GD, Mockingbird Studios, the good folks and Plangent Processing and all the others that get this music to my front porch. Oh, and thank you tapers too!

  • Oroborous
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    Ooops, forgot

    I can’t say for sure off hand about everyone who recorded Dead and NR, but Betty was known for not using it, and if things are done right, no need.
    Nothing comes for free, so every time you do something, it will effect other things, sometimes negatively…a cost benefit trade off…perhaps just like BITD with high gen cassettes? To Dolby or not to Dolby, that is the question lol
    I always have tried not to do any permanent adjustments/fixes, preferring to try and fix some other way, eq etc, but nothing permanent that you can’t fix yer fix!

    Imho NR etc becomes more of a band aid for when things weren’t able to be right, or to help mask issues beyond repair, i.e., the ravages of time.
    Don’t think I’ve ever used any on a master recording?

    Onto rest of GDM soundtrack this afternoon…

  • 1stshow70878
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    Thx Oro

    So 15 ips or 30 ips would have been impractical for shows I imagine. Expense, changing reels too often, and as these were for listening by the band not studio use, etc. But what about them using noise reduction? I'm guessing no Dolby.
    As an aside, I seldom have my Dolby on when listening to cassettes even though most were recorded with it. Even factory tapes with Dolby seem less muffled without it and I'm not listening at thunderous levels (most of the time) where hiss is an issue.
    Skylabs, a top notch mid-western audio repairer, no longer works on certain categories of equipment: Consoles, quad receivers, linear tracking turntables, automatic turntables, and reel to reels. Just not worth it from a cost perspective for what those machines sell for vs. repair costs. There are still plenty of specialists who will and R-to-Rs are available restored at very reasonable prices but good luck finding pre-recorded tapes (old or new). Nobody makes them anymore. I was never tempted but my cassette guy sells tons of R-to-Rs for like $200-$300 fully restored, but they are more run of the mill Sony and not high end. And they sell fast!
    Thanks again and cheers bro

  • Oroborous
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    First half of GDM soundtrack

    Ist show. The more surface area (wider the tape), and/or the faster the recording speed, the higher the resolution. And yes R2R can most certainly sound best. (Like anything though, if done well)
    The problem is a good one is very expensive, they’re as hard to keep maintained etc as a TT, and good linage quality tapes are rare and expensive, oh, and more a pain to “flip” than even a record…but they can sound amazing!

    Remember, many CDs AND most vinyl are sourced from (hopefully) master R2R tapes! A purist with the gear and ears might argue that direct to (vinyl) disc recording is the ultimate…but good luck lol
    One of the main reasons digital still gets such a bad rap is twofold
    1- the conversion used originally, and lack of attention to disparity’s between different DACs in the chain. Conversion has come a loonnggg way baby! AND…
    2- a significant number of the CDs first produced to meet the huge demand were not sourced from the master tapes, and lineage and source quality were often a joke! Caveat emptor: not all CDs are created alike!…or Blu-ray’s, or DVDs, or Vinyl etc Like drugs boys and girls, know your sources!

  • 1stshow70878
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    4-11-78

    5th show in the box.
    OK, now were getting there.
    Great 1st set.
    2nd set list looks good too.
    Moving right along...
    Cheers

    Random ?s for the tapers and the knowledgeable. Were these original tapes running at 7.5 ips on reel to reels and were they done with any Dolby or whatever? And do you audience tapers use any noise reduction? Been talking to an analog guy who says with reel to reel running fast you get superior saturation and the best analog sound of all, which to his ear beats CDs and even vinyl, and Dolby is unnecessary for good reel to reel recordings.

  • uncle_tripel
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    "Don't...

    climb on the fence, you idiot"

    august 6th 1974

    now that's much better, the sound is less polished or over-dubbed...or whatever...

    support your local library,
    my better half's employer also

    Peace for All!
    uncle_tripel

    PS - Hey Bobby, party like it's 1984, Happy B-day!

  • Colin Gould
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    Right now

    This is a little niche for this forum since I’m streaming it on BBC iplayer so it’s probably only accessible in the UK,
    John Martyn - Live at Reading University 1978
    This is an episode of ‘Rock Goes to College’. We saw him several times 78 -79 and his solo concerts were always excellent. It’s available for the next 27 days and is highly recommended. For those who can’t access it I recommend his album ‘One World’ which was his current album when this concert was recorded.
    Edit: To be honest I’d recommend any of his albums really

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New year, new update. Tell us of your musical adventures in real time!
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In reply to by uncle_tripel

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Good job Uncle.
Last night I gave 6-17-91 vinyl a spin.

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I have the single 180 g LP. I see that Experience Vinyl has the whole show on 3 LP’s, but it doesn’t specify that they are 180 g, and they’re overpriced.

The complete Leeds on CD is in short supply and also overpriced.

I have the single CD that doesn’t have Tommy.

Not to worry, the Hull CD I ordered arrived today. It has a Tommy.

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In reply to by icecrmcnkd

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I don't really listen to The Who so much these days, but the Live at Leeds and Hull shows seem really similar to me. In fact, they famously took the bass part out of a song from the Leeds show and attached it to one from Hull. The playing was so similar on the two nights that it slipped in seamlessly. I think" Heaven and Hell" was the track they did this on.
The original album - Live at Leeds, was marketed as being a bit like a bootleg at the time - if I remember rightly. No overdubs, and all sorts of clicks and buzzes included. As opposed to other live albums from the time - like "Get Yer Ya Ya's Out" which were heavily dubbed and doctored after the event. It was also fairly unique in featuring just one show, rather than being a compilation of songs from different shows on a given tour.

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...I've had enough...
followed my blues on down to The Scope, Norfolk, VA 1982-04-03...she LOVES that SPRING '82 more than me!
and NOW your man is GONE!

Peace All!
uncle_tripel

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Wow! The sound is so bright and clear. 16 track Betty, Rex recording. 1-23-73 with Merl Saunders, Kahn, Vitt, Sarah Fulcher at The Boarding House. Very funky cool. Cranking it up is required.
Cheers
Edit: Sarah Fulcher is amazing. At first I thought it was Marcy Levy, singer with Clapton and many others.

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Hey everyone! My current fav show is 10/3/80. It is just a solid show! Everyone should check it out on Relisten!

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...Spring '82, how could I NOT go down that road; 1982-04-18 HARTFORD II,...run me out in the COLD RAIN & did someone say SNOW!

Peace All!
uncle_tripel

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...BACKWARDS today, at the Warfield 1982-02-17, let's CUE it UP and let's GO

Peace All!
uncle_tripel

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Two cool shows that would make a great official release. My brother and I went to both these shows.

Daverock, can only agree, almost a mirror image (Tommy reference!). For hard core fans, Keith Moon drumming at Hull offers a little extra.

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In reply to by dmcvt

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Dmcvt - I always reach for the Hull show before the Leeds one - maybe it's the power of the drumming that edges it. In fact, that is The Who album I play now if I play one. Must have been amazing to see them around that time.

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In reply to by daverock

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jam of the week is 10/3/1980 Warfield, uncirculating SBD Set II open - you seem to have somebody's ear gg77!!

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Hey rockers!!

Believe it or not, I'm here at my office working on autopsy reports and listening to early Jethro Tull. I may have fallen and hit my head earlier in the morgue...............

I haven't understood a bar of music in my life, but I have felt it...........

Doc
Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.....

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In reply to by bluecrow

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Glad you enjoyed the show! I love the Dire Wolf opener, the Row Jimmy, and the range of songs is just great!

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...you're moving much too slow; YES, landing today in "balwmer" 1982-04-19 [identifier #144567 on the Archive] and continuing with my BAKER'S dozen for 1982 (so far 5/23, 4/3, 4/18 II, 2/17, and this weekend WOW UC Davis 3/14 luv it); a HUGE THNX to Mr Healy for the SUPER sounding board recordings of 1982!

Friend comes by,
says he's looking for his hat...
Come on pretty momma let's get on the road again!!!

EVERYONE have a PEACEFUL day!
uncle_tripel

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JUST FINISHED LISTENING TO BALTIMORE APRIL 19 1982! if you don't know this show you need to check it OUT; it's the LAST NIGHT of SPRING '82, just LISTEN!
I don't believe in PRAISE for what I maybe hear as highlights, it's really up to you the listener, but a SOLID yes to
PEGGY-O
CASSIDY
ROSES
CUMBERLAND!
SET 2
enough said!

thanks to my buddy, Pauley, for introducing me to 1982-04-19 (oh yes, I still have the cassette of the 2nd set dubbed with buds back in summer 1987)

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phil ruth go to the business office...and everybody's dancin'...and the band keeps playin' on, TMNS! alpine valley 1982-08-07 [diP #32]

peace all!
uncle_tripel

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My 6th show of exactly 50. without question one of the most important and special nights of music in my days on earth. myth time beauty. if the thunder don't get you the lightning will.

listening to 7/19/90 Deer Creek DaP 40 - np Desolation Row

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...many of you have never been late to a Rock n Roll show? [Bobby asks this question to the crowd when he is ready to start this show tonight]
...and so begins my return to SPRING '82 this morning with GLENS FALLS Civic 1982-04-14 streamin' on the archive identifier #7629, after a quick detour over to Alpine yesterday; YES, and a stand-out WHEEL as BLUECROW aptly notes {it appears alpine was your GO TO venue, very COOL!}

PEACE ALL!
uncle_tripel

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In reply to by uncle_tripel

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This is a personal favorite of mine. Love the China Rider, Deep Elem.
A lot of great shows in 82.

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...found some real gems in Glens Falls as DEADVIKES mentions check-out the china>rider and of course "Oh, sweet mama, your daddy's got them deep elem blues". I found the lazy>supplication fantastic as well as PITB! this was my 1st-ever listen and I'll def return.

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...about upstate NY and the intensity of the GD shows thru the years, and so I'm not leaving NY today, but heading west to Rochester 1982-04-09 streamin' on the archive #107054, and this will be another 1st-ever listen. just moving into DIRE WOLF with a big smilin' on my face because it is a rarity for 1982...stay tuned

peace all!
uncle_tripel

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I am seeing a lot of chatter about '82 shows lately. I think I may have to get more methodical in my listening, and just devote some sustained listening to this year.

Back in the day, I had plenty of tapes from early Brent era (79-81) but I had nothing from 83, and for 1982 I just had 7/31 and 8/1. Great shows both, and I loved playing them, but somehow I never caught the 1982 bug. 1982 for me is like a history lesson that I've memorized for the test, you know, what happened on this day in '82 (edit: I was trying to say more about this but just kept getting hey now'd)

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was just a baby, my mama told me, Son...but I shot a man in RENO just to watch him die. And my interest has been piqued about this "dear prudence" tease... I was fortunate to see JGB perform "dear prudence" 2X at the Tower Theater {10/31/1981 & 6/27/1982} and so NOW I'm off to RENO 2nd Set 1982-03-13 [archive identifier #112858]

peace all!
uncle_tripel

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so my treasure chest has about 30 shows on cassette from 1982, BUT 28 of them are ALL from July-December [yeah Austin & Zoo were in there too] and so I started wondering what did I miss during the Spring Tour and 1st half of the year, and apparently ALOT. I did attend the 1982-04-5 philly show, and how I luv'd that deep elem, but I missed purchasing the '82 RT 4.4 release due to 2 youngin's and budgeting constraints (lol such is life!) dig-in to the 1st half, it's tasty, and listening to those early try-outs from "in the dark" are not being performed

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...finished-UP that RENO 2nd set; well, it's a DEF a tease, but hardly a JAM that dear prudence, so listening carefully is required because it's quick; glad I went and checked-it-out, got another other one and black peter, they're probably 2 of the 3 [women smarter] most played tunes in '82...and I'm always a sucker for WELL the music's THUNDERIN' feel like a >franklin's scorchin' HOT, so check-it-out. thnx BILLYTHEKIDDD

NEXT movin' on to 1982-04-08 Set 2 SYRACUSE which will be another 1st-ever listen for me, streaming on the archive identifier #109567; this is SHOW #11 of my 1982 baker's dozen. everyone ENJOY your weekend. rock HARD!

Peace All!
uncle_tripel

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I really liked the Frost shows from 1982, that was my favorite year at the Frost. The 1982 Ventura shows were a blast. I don't know if you have listened to these shows yet, if not you might enjoy them.
,

Stand Back! Here Comes Charlie Musselwhite's South Side Band.

Headed down the rabbit hole of Cristo Redentor/Christo Redentor - (Musselwhite uses the second spelling). Cause just found out that it was one of Musslewhite's signature tunes. And it's on this, his debut album, with Harvey Mandel on guitar.

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Great record. He plays Christo Redemptor at every show. There is a longer version on his album Tenesee Woman.

BTK - That sure is a great album. Not sure how its escaped my attention all these years. And Cristo Redentor is a truly beautiful song that also somehow was under the radar up until I keyed into the Harvey Mandel album. That extended version of Christo Redentor on Tennessee Woman is really really fine. Wish the version on Stand Back was jammed out like that - it fades while Mandel is laying down some real fine guitar that you know could keep on going. I'll have to track down some live versions. Went back to the source towards the end of the evening - the original version (I think) on Donald Byrd 's lp A New Perspective. Wow. Fun little rabbit hole.

edit - and for the record capcha was way way difficult this morning compared to normal but once i ran that gauntlet I didn't get the HN beat down which was a very much a surprise

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...at IT, and IT will be...1982-04-06 PHL spectrum [archive/ #105237] it'll be really interesting to hear this SHOW as it was RELEASED, and how it measures-up to the PREVIOUS eleven which are now behind me; be COOL everyone!

Peace All!
uncle_tripel

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...of 61 performances in1982. ENDING this baker's dozen w/ the 1982-05-22 GREEK [archive/ #165132] another 1st-ever LISTEN, and excited to be able to stream it.

yesterday's spectrum APRIL 6th show had a notable OTHER ONE [albeit 2nd verse only] less than a crazy three mins. and very very enjoyable DEW (one of only 8 in '82)

peace all!
uncle_tripel

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...starts today in St Louis with 1972-10-18 [don't have LTTR Box Set] so will be streaming on the archive #13925, sure is gonna be a different vibe after two weeks of listening to 1982 AND looking forward to it; LETS ROCK!

peace all!
uncle_tripel

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...forever TUNING, AND after reading the post this morning of "Blair's Golden Road blog" DARK STAR crashes...[and there is a HUGE need to hear it today; 1972-11-19 HOFHEINZ Pavilion will fit the bill just fine (streamin' on the archive identifier #123577)]

...pouring its light into ashes
Reason tatters

peace and kindness for ALL
uncle_tripel

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FALL 1972!...today is stanley theater in JERSEY CITY 1972-09-26, and we're ON with this SHOW!

peace all!
uncle_tripel

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...yeah it's #3 out of 4 weekends, BUT a great opportunity to continue diving deeper into FALL '72! ready to LAUNCH 1972-11-22 Set 2 AUSTIN

peace all!
uncle_tripel

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...after yesterday's massive rains lead me BACK to the stanley theater 1972-09-28, an AUD patch for TRUCKIN' starts this show off, but JG has indicated this is going to be another HOT night in JERSEY CITY...onward :)
everyone have a wonderful day
peace!
uncle_tripel

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IT FOR...Fall '72 with 1972-09-09 [daP 46 at the hollywood palladium] which ends a quick 6 show listening party...THE OTHER ONE!

peace today and EVERY DAY!
uncle_tripel

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I thought I'd give 3/14/90 a spin over the weekend, from "The Other One" box set. A few years since I've listened to a show of this vintage, and it was a pleasant surprise. So much so, that I'm now half way through the next show in the box 3/18/90.

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...THE ROAD...18 years to...[yes DAVEROCK has the ESP lol!]...beginning a NEW TOUR today with the 2nd SETS from 1990-03-15 CAP Center and 1990-03-24 KNICKerBOCKer ( my DH buddies and I got shut-out by GDTS for BOTH albany & atlanta; and it did HURT! ) my early TOUR synopsis has the potential for 8 SHOWS, but this wheel is on fire!

peace ALL!
uncle_tripel

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Did that Dozin' at the Knick yesterday and was amazed how good it was. That 3-24-90 show has to rival ones from any era! What a setlist too.
Cheers

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In reply to by uncle_tripel

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Uncle Tripel-so you were actually there - almost. Hopefully you got into some of the other shows on this tour.
It does enhance an era if you don't play anything from it for a while. Not that I'm going to attempt it with 1972 or anything.

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So I brought Dick's Picks 14 to work today (Latvala!) but then I had the urge to listen to 12/1/73. Anyone remember when David Gans played some of this night?

My tape of GDH #217 survives after 31+ years! I had to go look up the airdate - 'twas the week of 11/16/92. Contained within is some of the finest banter you'll ever hear. The "Clear the Aisles" song(s) are amazing - at least in retrospect - I mean, obv no one in the band was amazed at having to go on "this lame trip"...

In the foreward/intro for his book, Improvised Lives, Gans wrote that he thought the GDH would end after Garcia died. Show #361 aired in August '95 and contained the memorial at Golden Gate Park. But now we're at GDH #1853. That's nearly 1500 shows later. Gans is doing his level best to play as many Grateful Dead Hours as there were Grateful Dead shows! #ht

Haven't listened to this show in forever. Gifted a ticket day before in Chaco. It was hotter than Hades in the low desert in August (my first time down there) and thought my tires would melt as I drove into town. Ultramatrix circulates for Set I only and it sounds sweet. Edit - There's an in-house FM source for Set II.

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Sweat lodge!
Right after R.R. and T-ride in the cool Colorado air (rain).
Cheers
Thx BC, will check that one out.

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...the sun will shine in my back door EVERY day...with 1990-03-26 albany today, love this show!
would have liked to add additional comments but, like, you know, THEY'RE BACK AT THEIR COMPLIANCE B.S.

peace all!
uncle_tripel

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August 13, 1975.
Went to find this after PF and BTK referenced it on the Mars Hotel thread and found I only have a 90 min. tape that cuts off the Blues For Allah at the end. Doh! What was I thinkin'? Taped it in 1993 and obviously had no idea how rare performances of that song are. Only 5 times, all in 1975. Loved the wiki story about Mickey's live crickets in the basement with a microphone.
Cheers
Edit - How did I not get HNd when this AM nothing got through. So dang random.