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  • Deadicated
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    CCj ...
    ... how about, "Dark Hal R"? "From day to day, just lettin' it ride, You get so far away from how it feels inside, You can't let go, 'cause you're afraid to fall, But the day may come when you can't feel at all."
  • GratefulGigi
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    So funny
    CCj i love your poems :)
  • c_c
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    hal r
    hal R rhymes with: bar par far car star mar tar jar ( -; unless, of course, you are from Baaahston. peace.
  • Hal R
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    rhymes with badger
    cadger n.Synonyms: cadge, beg, bum1, mooch, panhandle1 These verbs mean to ask for or obtain by charity: cadged a meal; begging for change; bum a ride; mooching food; homeless people forced to panhandle. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
  • c_c
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    thanks
    thanks.I think I was pushing the envelope a bit with gypsysoul's song... tough one to get everything to fit, not really 'just exactly perfect' a few beers later, it seemed OK ( -; the other thing, was, I think all of the folks mentioned in gypsysoul's song (except for tiger lilly) were all active participants in the wild, wild west days of the original dead.net forum; so we have all been together and through quite a bit back in those days... (not mentioning any specifics, though!!) ( -;
  • iknowurider
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    It's all good CCj
    As long as you continue blessing us with your wordy nuggets we won't take offense.
  • c_c
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    2 inside jokes
    maybe people know gypsysoul makes tie dyes, hence the reference to I've got to dye. but perhaps few people know one of her fav movies is Goodfellas, and she especially loves the line Jimmy Conway (Bobby DeNiro) said, 'I got no lyme!' maye and izzie, please substitute your names in the last 2 lines for your private versions and for the folks who were not mentioned, sorry, but do you realize how hard it is to rhyme something with 'cosmic badger' or 'hal R' ?? ' mom ' 'iknowurider' etc. etc. ( -;
  • marye
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    one for the anthology!
    save some Sugar Pops for me...
  • c_c
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    2007 -- Gypsy Soul
    Gypsy Soul Twenty 7, Xmas eve, with the full moon over town Gypsy Soul sang to Oroboros while wearing a big frown Do ya know she sang to him what do you make of that 'Cause Oroboros is a slick guy who ain't even a bit fat Oh joe, oh joe, tell me where is the bowl You ate all the cereal that was bought for Gypsy Soul Gypsy Soul is a mad woman, don't wanna eat no bread Joe go buy more Trix, and fill up the bowl deadicated, deadicated oh sweet deadicated D How the hell can I stop him, when he's twice as fat as me Well don't ask me Trix Are For Kids, I don't feel so fine Not only that, another thing, I GOT NO LYME Oh joe, deadic said, just give me one You ate all her cereal now she's gonna see you hung He waded to the market through Count Chocula's blood Stepped up to Gypsy Soul in the aisle, said give me a bowl full, love As Gypsy Soul lit a cigarette, she made some calls Blew the smoke in his face, dragged him out by the balls Oh joe, oh joe, we'll see you hang high You ate all my cer-e-al and now I've got to DYE She went a-walking down on Shakedown Street Three piece band on the corner played G - R - T - U - D But we ate some different cereal, what cereal could it be The cereal that woman ate was bought by Tiger Lilly The cereal that woman ate was bought by Tiger Lilly ( -; ** * * * * * 'dude, do the words quit while you are ahead mean anything to you' mutters cc joe's old lady
  • kennyw
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    Dal-ing!
    200g moong dal or red lentils1/4 teaspoon tumeric salt 900ml water 1 tsp cumin seeds 2-inch chunk of ginger, grated 1-2 green chillies, chopped (seeded if you prefer) 1-2 BIG handfuls chopped coriander/cilantro 3 tablespoons ghee/oil ****************** *Boil lentils with tumeric and salt. I find that for an authentic Indian flavour, some salt is essential, although I rarely use the huge amounts I find in recipe books. 1 tsp is about right for this. No salt is OK and quite edible but kind of bland. *Briskly whisk lentils when cooked so it all becomes a porridge. Alternatively, you could try whiskly brisking them. *Heat oil over mdeium high flame/heat. *When oil is sufficiently hot, fry cumin seeds for about 10 seconds. Then throw in the ginger and chillies; fry for another 30 seconds. *Enjoy the smells! *Fold the whole lot into the lentils and gently mix. *Throw in the coriander. *Serve *Eat ******** I often add chopped spuds or eggplant to make a heftier meal. I love eating out in Indian joints, but find the dal is ridiculously over-priced and too often too greasy and salty. Much more betterer to make it at home.
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an open space.
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we should all live our lives like. that-do it like you don't care-no matter what IT is. nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile
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the last line that Garcia says is also just exactly perfect. asked: 'is there anything else you'd like to say?' do you think Bon Jovi would have come up with anything nearly as humane?!! (humble apologies to Bon Jovi fans) but shit, Jovi, 'you give love a bad name' ( -;
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what the fuck is this shit???!!! I spotted this pencil box while on recent travel through Kinki, Japan... who the fuck are the LA Bears? does anyone else sense a gross copywrite infringement?
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beware of the lead ccjoe...la bears never heard of it.what is it?dancing bears in space....huh???
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So wasn't it in 1966 that Owsley and the Dead lived in L.A. and the boys fine crafted their art and Owsley did the same with his and about all they ate was meat? I think those little LA Bears must be flashbacks of that time transported to Kinki Japan. I mean exactly what does go on in a city named Kinki? And where will the L.A. Bears end up next? Norway, Tibet, Egypt? Them sure are some Prankster bears. Looks like the sky on the pencil box has a Dark Star theme. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. Wiliam Blake
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Hal, are you sure you want an answer to what goes on in kinki Japan??!! image hosted by ImageVenue.com http://img133.imagevenue.com/loc2/th_47007_fgFERTILITY_123_2lo.jpg http://kinkijapan.com/ well, Kinki is actually a region of Japan, more commonly known as Kansai. but given the choice of saying I was in Kinki Japan vs. saying I was in Kansai; which do you think I have to choose. That, and ever penchant toward accuracy, I can not remember the name of the city in Kinki that I spotted the pencil box-- hence the general referance to Kinki... though not actually in Kinki, some of the unusual events in Japan include these: http://www.yamasa.org/japan/english/destinations/aichi/tagata_jinja.html http://www.answers.com/topic/kanamara-matsuri http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevegoestravelling/sets/72157600551157666… pretty soft to some of the Japanese anime in popular culture.... but pretty 'kinki' nevertheless. ( -;
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I did know about Kinki at one time. I forgot about Kinki. Happens with age. Kinki is the region of Kyoto, Osaka, Kobe and Nara. I took a Japanese History course years ago. And back in the 80's saw an exhibit at the Art Institute in Chicago of many objects from the big wooden temple with the huge Buddha from Nara. Still have the catalog from the exhibit.
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I would expect to find something like that in china. They seem to make everything. I would think those would sell like hotcakes. Heck I'd buy some!!
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in my gaming industry at the moment. Alot of the fans of role-playing games are also into anime, which CAN indeed be pretty hefty, but are some interesting stories out there. My new company actuallyl produces an rpg based on anime called Anima, complete with books, anime style illustrations, and miniature figurines for playing. At any gaming convention these days, you see Gothic Lolitas galore (YIKES) and all sorts of western fans of Japanese modern culture. ********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens
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who knows if the pencil box was made in China or where?? there were no markings on it, no GD trademark or such, no made in Taiwan on the back... sure, there are plenty of Chinese fake product exports all over the world. the GD t-shirts my old lady picked up in Japan were all (well mostly) official, they have both the GD trademarks on the shirt and on the labels, and tags. Those too, (the labels and such) are also easily faked; so one never knows. sell like hotcakes?? perhaps. one must first have pencils to put in the box, but I could think up other things to 'stash' in such a box. ( -; peace.
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isn't japan the king of knock-offs??? they take a popular cultural icon and tweak it just a bit, then put it on everything. you have to look real close for the differences. saw it on globe trekker once. with doc martin's or something. peace nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile
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don't know if Japan currently is the knockoff Asian capital, but it was in China that they made a fake Disneyland as well as the usual technology piracy etc etc. http://www.boingboing.net/2007/05/02/fake-disneyland-in-c.html I think Japan is more about taking a good idea and making it better; like that whole mass production automobile thang that Ford started but Honda and Toyota perfected... oh, and I checked a label on one of my old lady's 'official GD product' t shirt. It was made in China -- so go figure??!!
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17 years 2 months
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theifs.they really are about mass,production.but the usa,starts that good idea.they are pretty clever,how ever their are copy cat artist.ive gotten stuff w/officail logo,then like you said made in china.my daughter for the last several years reads labels if its from china she will not purchase it.i asked her on day why?she replied;cause they steal from us,they dont have any of their own ideas,and i dont trust them,they can screw our country over if they really wanted too'watch the ihummmports..humm..
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Suggest you give concerned daughter a big hug and send her to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions Many of them seem do to be to do with blowing stuff up but all the same where we be without having stolen/borrowed all that stuff!! What goes round comes around! Also the 'made in China' label may be official stuff; it may just be shorthand for 'Designed in USA/Europe, outsourced to China for their cheap labour so that we can make more money from you suckers' Poor heathaafeathaa daughter....world so complicated!
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Don't forget some of the greatest poetry of all time especially from the T'ang and Sung Dynasties, scroll paintings, calligraphy, the birthplace of Taoism and its subsequent meeting with Buddhism to become Zen, Tai Chi, martial arts, a type of medicine that is not as invasive as that of the western model, amazing architecture, fireworks, good food and beautiful women. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. Wiliam Blake
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Just I sent the one above off the dishes in the drain shifted and a china bowl made in China with hand painted pictures of dragons broke. Coincidence or ? If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. Wiliam Blake
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Those Chinese mass producers are not so smart as it would seem now, would it? Couldn't perfect the "unbreakable" bowl, could they? Wait just a minute.... (GRTUD shakes fist in air while screaming amidst mounds of shattered "china", while simultaneously, in his "thought cloud", yellow skinned, black haired humans with narrow eye openings and wooden sandals chuckle, while looking down on the scene from the "thought cloud"), "The bowls are NOT unbreakable.... (sobs) another marketing scheme! How could I fall for such gimmicks? DOH!" The Dude Abides!
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I certainly didn't mean any offense against China or Chinese culture etc. etc. just pointing out a fairly well known fact these days that there are plenty of fake goods out there and so on and so forth. I will try to take a snap of the label from the t-shirt and you can judge if it looks official or not. It seems real, and it is also marked with the import / export comany's name... (this is a t-shirt, well, one of several, my old lady found in Japan) so the label is actually in Japanese. but hey!! isn't Japanese language really based on CHINESE characters??!! giving credit where credit is due. What was it Tony Soprano said about spaghetti?: 'why would a people invent a food you need a fork to eat?' something like that anyways... ( -;
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Yes, the Japanese written language is based on the Chinese characters. You knew that. They got art styles, poetry styles, Buddhism and much more from China and incorporated it into their own The brilliance of the Japanese is their ability to adopt elements from other cultures and perfect them. Take a look at the late 19th century - Meiji Restoration how quick they westernized. Then after WW 2 how quickly they recovered (with McArthur plan of course) and became leaders in technology. I thank the Japanese for most of the great stereo components I've had over the years. So the Japanese are big Elvis fans, and there are Japanese Elvis impersonators. Wonder if they get the Dead thing at all. A Japanese Grateful Dead tribute band. Interesting concept. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. Wiliam Blake
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not my picture, but very cool: yeah, of course I knew that, mochiron, sore ga, yoku wakarimashita yo. yoku shitte irunda. (ok, I am showing off) but I am illiterate, sad to say. ) -; anyways, even if you can't read Japanese or understand Chinese characters, you can kind of wade through this, and it is pretty cool. http://www.geocities.jp/takaidoyos/ I've only ever run into one Thai deadhead kid, living on the beach on the Island of Koh Lanta. He was playing an accoustic guitar, and as we were passing by, he noticed my old lady's trademark EXTREMELY large Steal your face t; and he broke into Ripple. cool dude, I didn't speak much Thai in those daze, and he didn't speak much English, but it was a "mak mak sanuk" time! he knew about 30 or 40 dead songs by heart. but his pronunciation of the words was a bit "tonal" and then there was the story of getting 'accosted' by a middle aged Indian gent at the Taj Mahal gardens early on Christmas morning last year... well, that was also an experience to say the least. we are everywhere! peace.
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Hey Joe please educate us stone age folk how to insert pix and utubes and links and other cool stuff..or at least tell us where to find out!
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the youtube thing is really easy; if you watch any vid, there will be a thang under the vid screen that says "embed" highlight that, and copy it, then simply paste it into any post. to post any pic, is also pretty easy. first go to: imagevenue.com you do not even have to register, you can upload the pic for free. then simply floow their instructions, and be sure o click on safe for work or not safe for work as the case may be. I reckon not safe for work means PORN, not even something like this: anyway, after the pic uploads into their data base, they give you a few options; for this board, copy the link at the bottom that says : Hotlink a clickable thumbnail on any Website or Auction for some reason the others do not work, andyou only end up with this: [URL=http://img177.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=35050_300px-Barkerandpet_122…] try it, you'll like it. and it is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. something tells me you are a youngin' rather than really being in the stone age... but that is neither here nor there. where? other questions, please do not hesitate to ask, we aim to please. peace.
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the youtube thing is really easy; if you watch any vid, there will be a thang under the vid screen that says "embed" highlight that, and copy it, then simply paste it into any post. to post any pic, is also pretty easy. first go to: imagevenue.com you do not even have to register, you can upload the pic for free. then simply floow their instructions, and be sure o click on safe for work or not safe for work as the case may be. I reckon not safe for work means PORN, not even something like this: anyway, after the pic uploads into their data base, they give you a few options; for this board, copy the link at the bottom that says : Hotlink a clickable thumbnail on any Website or Auction for some reason the others do not work, andyou only end up with this: [URL=http://img177.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=35050_300px-Barkerandpet_122…] try it, you'll like it. and it is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. something tells me you are a youngin' rather than really being in the stone age... but that is neither here nor there. where? other questions, please do not hesitate to ask, we aim to please. peace.
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the youtube thing is really easy; if you watch any vid, there will be a thang under the vid screen that says "embed" highlight that, and copy it, then simply paste it into any post. to post any pic, is also pretty easy. first go to: imagevenue.com you do not even have to register, you can upload the pic for free. then simply floow their instructions, and be sure o click on safe for work or not safe for work as the case may be. I reckon not safe for work means PORN, not even something like this: anyway, after the pic uploads into their data base, they give you a few options; for this board, copy the link at the bottom that says : Hotlink a clickable thumbnail on any Website or Auction for some reason the others do not work, andyou only end up with this: [URL=http://img177.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=35050_300px-Barkerandpet_122…] try it, you'll like it. and it is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. something tells me you are a youngin' rather than really being in the stone age... but that is neither here nor there. where? other questions, please do not hesitate to ask, we aim to please. peace.
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sometimes after you post something with too many links, it vanishes into cyber space for a while or the CIA and INTERPOL intercept it-- finally a mod may free it and let eveyone see it. like just now. where did my last post telling you how to do this go??
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the youtube thing is really easy; if you watch any vid, there will be a thang under the vid screen that says "embed" highlight that, and copy it, then simply paste it into any post. to post any pic, is also pretty easy. first go to: imagevenue.com you do not even have to register, you can upload the pic for free. then simply floow their instructions, and be sure o click on safe for work or not safe for work as the case may be. I reckon not safe for work means PORN, not even something like this: anyway, after the pic uploads into their data base, they give you a few options; for this board, copy the link at the bottom that says : Hotlink a clickable thumbnail on any Website or Auction for some reason the others do not work, andyou only end up with this: [URL=http://img177.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=35050_300px-Barkerandpet_122…] try it, you'll like it. and it is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. something tells me you are a youngin' rather than really being in the stone age... but that is neither here nor there. where? other questions, please do not hesitate to ask, we aim to please. peace.
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17 years 6 months
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the youtube thing is really easy; if you watch any vid, there will be a thang under the vid screen that says "embed" highlight that, and copy it, then simply paste it into any post. to post any pic, is also pretty easy. first go to: imagevenue.com you do not even have to register, you can upload the pic for free. then simply floow their instructions, and be sure o click on safe for work or not safe for work as the case may be. I reckon not safe for work means PORN, not even something like this: anyway, after the pic uploads into their data base, they give you a few options; for this board, copy the link at the bottom that says : Hotlink a clickable thumbnail on any Website or Auction for some reason the others do not work. try it, you'll like it. and it is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. something tells me you are a youngin' rather than really being in the stone age... but that is neither here nor there. where? other questions, please do not hesitate to ask, we aim to please. peace. I have no patience when the board eats my posts, however temporarily...
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the youtube thing is really easy; if you watch any vid, there will be a thang under the vid screen that says "embed" highlight that, and copy it, then simply paste it into any post. to post any pic, is also pretty easy. first go to: imagevenue.com you do not even have to register, you can upload the pic for free. then simply floow their instructions, and be sure o click on safe for work or not safe for work as the case may be. I reckon not safe for work means PORN, not even something like this: anyway, after the pic uploads into their data base, they give you a few options; for this board, copy the link at the bottom that says : Hotlink a clickable thumbnail on any Website or Auction for some reason the others do not work. try it, you'll like it. and it is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. something tells me you are a youngin' rather than really being in the stone age... but that is neither here nor there. where? other questions, please do not hesitate to ask, we aim to please. peace. I have no patience when the board eats my posts, however temporarily...
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17 years 6 months
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the youtube thing is really easy; if you watch any vid, there will be a thang under the vid screen that says "embed" highlight that, and copy it, then simply paste it into any post. to post any pic, is also pretty easy. first go to: imagevenue.com you do not even have to register, you can upload the pic for free. then simply floow their instructions, and be sure o click on safe for work or not safe for work as the case may be. I reckon not safe for work means PORN, not even something like this: (I took the pic out) anyway, after the pic uploads into their data base, they give you a few options; for this board, copy the link at the bottom that says : Hotlink a clickable thumbnail on any Website or Auction for some reason the others do not work. try it, you'll like it. and it is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. something tells me you are a youngin' rather than really being in the stone age... but that is neither here nor there. where? other questions, please do not hesitate to ask, we aim to please. peace. I have no patience when the board eats my posts, however temporarily...
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17 years 6 months
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the youtube thing is really easy; if you watch any vid, there will be a thang under the vid screen that says "embed" highlight that, and copy it, then simply paste it into any post. to post any pic, is also pretty easy. first go to: imagevenue.com you do not even have to register, you can upload the pic for free. then simply floow their instructions, and be sure o click on safe for work or not safe for work as the case may be. I reckon not safe for work means PORN, not even something like this: (I took the pic out) anyway, after the pic uploads into their data base, they give you a few options; for this board, copy the link at the bottom that says : Hotlink a clickable thumbnail on any Website or Auction for some reason the others do not work. try it, you'll like it. and it is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. something tells me you are a youngin' rather than really being in the stone age... but that is neither here nor there. where? other questions, please do not hesitate to ask, we aim to please. peace. I have no patience when the board eats my posts, however temporarily...
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17 years 6 months
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the youtube thing is really easy; if you watch any vid, there will be a thang under the vid screen that says "embed" highlight that, and copy it, then simply paste it into any post. to post any pic, is also pretty easy. first go to: imagevenue.com you do not even have to register, you can upload the pic for free. then simply floow their instructions, and be sure o click on safe for work or not safe for work as the case may be. I reckon not safe for work means PORN, not even something like this: (I took the pic out) anyway, after the pic uploads into their data base, they give you a few options; for this board, copy the link at the bottom that says : Hotlink a clickable thumbnail on any Website or Auction for some reason the others do not work. try it, you'll like it. and it is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. something tells me you are a youngin' rather than really being in the stone age... but that is neither here nor there. where? other questions, please do not hesitate to ask, we aim to please. peace. I have no patience when the board eats my posts, however temporarily...
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last try: the youtube thing is really easy; if you watch any vid, there will be a thang under the vid screen that says "embed" highlight that, and copy it, then simply paste it into any post. to post any pic, is also pretty easy. first go to: imagevenue. com you do not even have to register, you can upload the pic for free. then simply floow their instructions, and be sure o click on safe for work or not safe for work as the case may be. I reckon not safe for work means PORN, not even something like this: (I took the pic out) anyway, after the pic uploads into their data base, they give you a few options; for this board, copy the link at the bottom that says : Hotlink a clickable thumbnail on any Website or Auction for some reason the others do not work. try it, you'll like it. and it is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. something tells me you are a youngin' rather than really being in the stone age... but that is neither here nor there. where? other questions, please do not hesitate to ask, we aim to please. peace. I have no patience when the board eats my posts, however temporarily...
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don't be like me and freak out or claim gov. conspiracies when you put links into posts andthey do not show up right away, it is in a queue that a moderator has to allow in. even knowing that, I can not help keeping on keeping on and trying and trying again. the result being numerous similar or the same posts. since this is the 'open space' mary or izzie, please leave all of the extra posts I made in frustration here for emphasis. thanx. peace.
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OK thanks to CC Joe lets try this photo thing! Who can spot what is wrong with this cover of a bogus DVD of 'About Schmidt' observed in Phnom Penh Cambodia a couple of years ago?
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the possibilities are now endless!
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I remember the character Schmidt was a bit deranged but I don't remember him loading any guns, during that movie. The Dude Abides!
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Well spotted Mr Devotion some crafty counterfeiter has photoshopped in the gun in the foreground in order to make this downbeat movie more attractive to an audience addicted to violence. See, they've even learned fraudulent marketing from us dammit. I lived in Cambodia for 2 years and since it was not possible to buy or rent the real thing there and there are no cinemas showing international films the only choice for movie addicts was this! I even saw a counterfeit copy of the Grateful Dawg film there!!
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I hate to say this, but a gun may have brightened that "Schmidt" movie up a notch. In fact, I feel a spoof coming on! You've got to hand it those counterfeit guys, at least they have a sense of humor. The Dude Abides!
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...that's Dr. Devotion, please. I didn't spend 7 years in Devotion school to be called, "Mr." Don't make me summon Golden Road, please. I hate to disturb him from running my legitimate corporations. They seem to be making more money than my "evil" enterprises. Gone are the Days, indeed. The Dude Abides!
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is on the case.
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marye, I'm telling you, that guy is one of the "Way Outs", if you catch my drift. I have nothing to do with him other than trying to talk some sense into him, whenever it's convenient to me and my experiments. He's also been a guest at our "facility", which is registered at all the various state agencies and EPA. I don't have any direct business dealings with him. In fact, he doesn't even act like a scientist. He's more like a game show host. "All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him."
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17 years 6 months
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way out way out... like from the FlintSTONES! I know it was my fault, and the multiple posts reflect that, evenknowing the system has the spam filter, can not stop me from trying to get what I want on the board right away... actually, I still blame pyramid power! anyway, back on real or counterfit goods: these are the labels from some t-shirts my old lady bought in Japan... SHE is literate; so the top line in the size section says BUST the second line says HEIGHT COTTON 100% and in the bottom right corner it says Made in China. by the way, it says all of this in Japanese, though again, the Japanese are using Chinese pictographs with the exception of the word bust, which is written in Katakana. Is it irony that I can only read the word bust on this label?? why ain't my old lady laughing about that one??!! another t shirt or 2 that she got in KINKI Japan did not have any labels, those were probably fake... but you never know. a lot of the seemingly fake goods that are sold on the streets in Bangkok are in fact real-- they are just stolen or they simply 'fell off the truck' so to speak. disclaimer: cc joe and his old lady abhor fake goods and refuse to purchase them, unless, they are really cool and at a very good price. ( -;
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17 years 5 months
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Indeed lots of this stuff is smuggled out of the sweatshops where it is legally made and sold in markets. Those T-Shirts look like a very professional job. Who knows? Nicholson is spelt correctly. Now for something really weird How is this for a double bill, twofer? image hosted by ImageVenue.com What mad genius put these together? Are they perhaps suggesting a similarity between Michael Moore and Mr Creosote? I never buy these things by the way, I just ask to look at them, take photos of the covers and then run away....