Grateful Dead

Or will they just make more? (I can see it now, a collectors' item on eBay...)

I posted this (exceedingly long) thing over in this week's Taper's Section forum, and I think that may have been in part what prompted this new discussion opening here. Sorry, Izzie! Anyway, I thought I'd do my part to encourage discussion by re-posting it here...____ People keep alluding to this, and of course a vehement comment about the Starbucks release is what prompted David Gans's heated response last week... I think there are real reasons why the Starbucks release concerns many Dead Heads. They may not be fair reasons, but they're valid from a certain point of view, and I don't think they've been aired in a calm way yet (I might have missed a post, though). First, rightly or wrongly, I'd imagine that for a lot of us, Starbucks represents a certain kind of corporate, yuppie mentality--huge international chain, highly standardized product and merchandizing environment, etc. The opposite of what the Dead stood for in many of our imaginations. That's a romanticized image: the Dead have been a big (or at least mid-sized) business for a long time now. And a negative attitude toward Starbucks may be unfair. But still, there have to be at least a few unreconstructed hippies around the Dead organization who could tell you that the Starbucks alliance would cause a gut reaction in some fans. That gut reaction is not necessarily a reason for Rhino/GDP to refrain from putting out a Starbucks release, but it does, I think, explain at least some of the negative response to it on these boards. Especially combined with (and this is my second point) the fact that the new Starbucks release comes at a time when archival releases are few and far between. This is two best-ofs released in the last four years. Obviously, it took somebody some man-hours to put the new one together, and I imagine many fans wish those man-hours had been spent on a release that they could appreciate, instead. This combines with some frustration about Three From The Vault, which many found to be a less-than-overwhelming release, but which seems like it may have been easier to market to a mass audience than, say, the once-rumored Winterland '73 box would have been. In other words, there seems to be a perception, not entirely unjustified, that more effort right now is being put into trying to recruit new fans/customers than trying to please the faithful. (To be fair, the faithful can be very hard to please--we're loyal, but veeeery cantankerous, and often passionate rather than considered in our responses.) There's nothing, absolutely nothing, wrong with Rhino/GDP trying to enlarge the audience for Grateful Dead music. It's not like '87, when there was a delicate ecology to the scene that was thrown out of whack by the arrival of the "Touchheads" (then again, that's when I first got into the Dead, and here I am still, twenty years later). Now, it's just a question of how many people are going to buy each new vault release, and so it's truly the more the merrier. Right? Maybe. Again, I would never argue that Rhino/GDP should NOT try to increase their audience. But from the hardcore fan's perspective, there can certainly be a difference between a label that's dedicated to serving an existing, knowledgeable fanbase and one that's dedicated to appealing to as broad a market as possible. I'm a big Dylan collector, and I don't think I'm alone in feeling that the big problem with Columbia/Sony's approach to Dylan archival sets is that they're trying to appeal to a broad, uncommitted audience, rather than the real hardcore fans. It's no coincidence, I think, that Starbucks also released an exclusive Dylan album, Live At The Gaslight 1962--and Dylan collectors were wildly disappointed with this. What was on it was great, but it left off a good chunk of what's on the circulating Gaslight tape, maybe so as not to scare off casual purchasers with too many unfamiliar songs. Again, Columbia/Sony's Dylan archival releases always seem calculated to rope in as many casual fans as possible, rather than trying to get it right (if I may say so) for the hardcore fans. It's possible that some of us have reacted to the Starbuck's set, 3FTV, and the discontinuance of the DPs and Download Series as Rhino's steps in that direction, as trying to appeal to a broad but casual audience at the expense of the faithful. I take DL2's and everybody else's word for it that this is not the case--that it's just taking a while for Rhino to get all its cylinders firing, and that there will be lots of things to make us hardcore fans very happy (something that the Taper's Section mp3s were doing, incidentally--one reason why taking them away provoked such a reaction). I live in hope. But I just thought I'd point out that the reaction to the Starbucks set was not entirely paranoid or silly. Let's hope the Starbucks set creates thousands and thousands of new Dead fans, and that all of them are ready to make a big box o' '73 their next purchase.

Starbucks? Big deal! I consider Starbucks (henceforth called SB for he purpose of this post) to be a simple corporate chain of coffee-houses. They attract a certain type of person, a quasi-Yuppie mix of urbanites and the trendy. I have an SB across the street from me, and I visit occasionally. It's tied to the Chapters bookstore (a major Canadian book-store chain, similar to Barnes & Noble). So you can sit down on the comfy living-room style sofas, while you read the book you just bought. I personally don't care about SB one way or the other. It's just another trendy urban coffee-house for me. I don't attach any relevance to it's corporate connections. But frankly, I don't care for their oh-so-trendy café-macchiatto with the foam on the side. I'm just not into café-au-laits, or espresso grandés. I prefer a good ol' cup-a-joe, if you know what I mean. So I order my coffee at the local Tim Horton's donut shop. (Tim Horton's is a major Canadian chain of coffee/donut shops.) But then, I'm more conservative than the average Dead Head. (If you only knew! ) I don't consider SB to be "the enemy" or corporate sell-outs, or "The Man" or any of that nonsense. They're a successful business, nothing more. This hippiesque attitude about corporations is so 1970. The fact that SB brought out a Dead compilation makes sense, since the business is trendy and tends towards the trendy and hip. Why not? And if, in the bargain, they turn a few newbies on to the Dead, so much the better. Good for SB, and good for us.

I went to the local Starbucks the day I saw on this site that it had come out. I looked at it and realized that there was nothing new on it for me. It was funny, I was asking the young lady behind the counter what dates the live songs were from and why they were not listed. Yikes. She was very smiley and thought it was great that the store had the disc and she said she had a couple of Dead discs and asked me if I liked Simon and Garfunkel and Janis Joplin too; I think that she was excited that a real live Deadhead (OK, maybe I'm not a real Deadhead, according to last week Tapers Section) was in the store talking about it to her. She was probably early 20's. At least she has good taste in music. She said it had been selling well. As for coffee and anything else, I support small local businesses whenever possible. I encourage everyone else to do the same. Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.) Walt Whitman-Song of Myself

you can also add comments directly to the Starbucks feedback forum on this release http://www.hearmusic.com/#PRODUCT289 If 'Nate from Turlock CA' really exists, then one new deadhead has already been recruited!!!!

BUT that is not exactly the point here. What is so heinous about sharing the music with the yuppie masses? Is pretty snobby to have the menality "I am an anti-corporate Deadhead purist, and only people like me deserve to enjoy this music" I think. Just because someone is a suit, doesn't mean he's a bad guy by default. Just imagine this scenario, if you will. Mr. Jones open-minded stockbroker is picking up his morning cup of overpriced, shitty java (to each his own when it comes to taste, but nevermind) and sees the c.d. Picks it up and says "hmm, why not explore new musical dimensions?" Takes it home. Leaves it lying around somewhere. His kid picks it up and tries it out. This is a kid who might not otherwise be exposed to the Wonderful World of the Grateful Dead. Now he is. He thinks "this is cool, kind of fun" and starts to explore further. What for heaven's sake is wrong with that? The next time this kid sees this guy walking down the street in a tie dye, this kid will have a better idea of where THAT guy is coming from. Has broadened his horizons a little bit. Again, what is wrong with that? Kid thinks to himself "hmm, that guy looks funny, not at all like my dad, but that c.d. wasn't so bad, so..." None of us can make Starbucks go away. We only have the choice whether to go there and give the corporation our money or not. But we don't have the right to look down on those who do. And none of us has the right to reserve the music that we love for those that we deem worthy. Intoleration in any form is a horrible thing, and is as narrow-minded as any guy who looks cross-eyed at your long hair. If Sugar Magnolia makes some suit guy smile, then FECK it, is alright w/me-we have something in common then.

he doesn't like truckin' by any chance ? Numero Uno in Turlock, California Bob - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Spanish Jam

We vacationed in Ft Bragg Ca (N Cal coast) a couple months ago. My wife found the new Police disk with the classics on it. We listened to it many times in between the kids CDs on our way back to Portland. Now if they had the GD CD I might have not bought it only becasue I have so many great shows and my Police bootlegs sound like someone stuffed a tape recorder in their pants. (mental picture) .... Good for SB to let the folks who might not otherwise be familiar with the GD get an idea of what we like etc... Thanks Mr Star-Buck... Eric

the Starbucks website is refusing to accept my feedback comments about this collection..all I said was that it was better than Lily Allen!

Luckily for you, Lily Allen now has her own topic here.

I don't know what to think about this move. My first impression is, "No sir, I don't like it." How about a View From The Vault 5, Dicks Picks - The Next 36, Download series and more releases like Nightfall Of Diamonds, Dozin' At The Nick, Terrapin Limited, Truckin' Up To Buffalo ect ect ect ect............................

Going to the Starbucks music sight and previewing the tracks, theres nothing new here. Seems to be a rehashing of previously available tracks in a sampler/compilation.

the baby boomers-no offense to any of you, but think about it. mccartney, dylan, and the dead. all 3 are favs of mine (40 years old). but the boomers who were young and hip when these 3 were either at their peak(the mac, dylan), or crazy- hip-screw -the -establishment- yet- humble beginnings in the days of haight ashbury. NOW the boomers have all the cash, are ready to retire, but---don't want to feel old. so, why not give 'em what they had when they were young???? like mentioned above, nothing new on this disc-so surely not for the long-haul fan. this is for the aging hipster-the usual crowd at you local sb's. the LEXUS suv driving ozone sucking suburbanite who thinks its is now the hip thing to do to overpay for a cup o'joe. what happened to you??? remember sharing food at woodstock for free???just my freaking opinion nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile

The coffee isn't worth the price to me. I was wondering if they play the discs in house to advertise or just sell only?

i am of the hippie ideal. i loved the boomers' ideas, and their balls to do what's right. but too bad so many of them lost their values along the way nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile

by chance, are u a ren & stimpy fan???? that line brings back some memories (no sir, i don't like it) i'm thinking of a horse. peace nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile

slinking off into the sunset as I prepare to turn 60... with a venti latte, I guess.

is the big day, marye? You gonna do something really really great to celebrate? ************************************************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens

And what musical selection will you have with that latte? "From day to day, just lettin' it ride, You get so far away from how it feels inside, You can't let go, 'cause you're afraid to fall, But the day may come when you can't feel at all."

don't slink too far. please continue to share your wealth of experiences and wisdom with us!! peace and many more to you nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile

is a few weeks away, and I've been talking to my folks about going down to LA and doing the family thing, for which it seems like a good moment. As to the musical selection, I need to give that a bit of thought! Thanks for the kind wishes.

I'm chiming in late to this discussion. This is a response to the David Gans post. You know, I don't even see any vehement disgust towards the Starbucks deal in this thread -- it must have been all in the Taper's Section thread as mentioned. But let me say there is absolutely nothing wrong with this deal and in fact GDP are SO LUCKY to have been able to do it! I work in the music industry and let me tell you, the physical CD market is dying. I was speaking with a friend/former co-worker who is out there trying to start up a small indie label (they have about a half dozen artists and releases right now) and there are just really so few places to go to sell records these days. In fact the one thing I said to him was, 'Hey the Holy Grail must be Starbucks -- are you trying to get in there?" He was like, "shit yeah -- it's impossible." So look, it's a great thing for GDP that they got in there. (Not to say it was hard for them -- they're WB/Rhino - and really, they're the Dead -- SBUX OF COURSE would have them. My point is, SBUX is the THE PLACE to be right now if you are in the business of selling record album CD's). As far as the album itself? Yeah - it is obviously not for us. It is a GH/compilation where even the live portion is just "tunes" that are nothing new to what we all already have lots of. It's for the SBUX masses and hopefully they sell lots of them. Maybe there will be future releases that will be cooler for us. As for the coffee? Good stuff. I like it it plain, black with ice. I don't go in there often. I do my joe at home in the morning and occasionally grab an afternoon cup for free at the office... * * * * * * * * * * * * -enjoyin' the ride

specifically now that the Road Trip series has been announced, is that these new compilation-oriented releases will probably bring us some new folks here. Since we were all newbies once (and everybody has a different story to tell about what got them on the bus) I think it'll be pretty interesting to see how it all looks to these guys.

Hmmm......Very nice very neat,but somehow it reminds me a "the best of the GD 1977",a virtual concert that never went down like this,without any gaps of course(..seems strange to me anyway all this complaints about "gaps".there were entirely part of the concert.just think about a moment when they preparing their instruments for black-throated wind,you hear it coming and BOOM-out of nowhere starts the most incredible Jack-a-roe you ever heard,gaps,..hahaha)its only my humble personal opinion,but the way dick made his picks seems to be honest,you get a upgraded version of a real concert.what can be better?I mean with "the best of whatever year" you will be finished in 95 anyway.seems like a little marketing error,because lets talk buisness.these polished versions of the GD are for the people who maybe never saw them live or just came on the bus because it was "cool" for a while.they dont have the time or maybe not even the patience to put in a whole show and go through it a few times,because thats what it needs.a few times listening and you start to discover incredible licks,wonderful jams that make you feel like travelling to mars,yeah but you have to take the time.....GD easy listening is for the stressed who put it into the car cd on their way to work.Not the best way to listen to the Boys anyway...........:-)(-.

Good to keep the wheel turning. We were all there at one time, heard some music, some lyrics and suddenly felt alive and at one with this universe. When you look back on humankinds brief history this tiny little period, the grateful dead era,will always be seen as a leap to a deeper understanding. Has for everyone that is in it, or out of it for that matter. Broadened the horizons of all who felt it's presence, sometimes just a seed planted in a garden but lo and behold someday you just can't ignore that beautiful flower.It is the seeds that make the flowers, that make the pollen, that attract the bees, that make the honey, that gives the energy, that makes the world go round. Thank you Jerry,Robert, Bob,Phil,Billy,Bear,Pigpen,Tom,Mickey,Kieth,Donna,Brent,Vince, and everyone who was giving water to those seed's. Look at what a beautiful garden you have grown. You have planted the seeds that make the world go round and we thank you. Let it grow! pk

You are truly right on with The Wheel, I felt like I was reading some of my own thoughts while enjoying your post. Thank you so much. PEACE

Peace to you iknowyourider. you are a part of the wheel that I will alway's remember.thank you. peace,pk

I too love your posts, you are a grate writer, keep em coming my friend! The wheel is turning and you can't slow down, You can't let go and you can't hold on, You can't go back and you can't stand still, If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will. Peace, Gigi

I too am an avid admirer of your posts. What a beautiful garden here. Very lucky to a part of it. Shine on and let it grow! peace and love,pk

Any linx to Eternally Grateful??!

this is a pretty old topic and I'm not sure the release is still available, but I'll look into it. Thanks for asking!

is available with cake or cookies

I love seeing his picture and his posts... I bought this compilation - mainly because I assumed it would have 'remastered' sound. of course since then have been able to get most of the 'proper' releases in remastered format. As for the coffee shop itself - When I lived in Palo Alto we were exactly 1 mile from one - so I made sure to walk that at least once a week... get me a latte and read the paper and then walk the mile home - hehe