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In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church.
In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world.
Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.
funny story ?
So back on June 23rd i'm in an Albertsons grocery store in Grants Pass, Or. and I'm doing my shopping and some guy walks by and says hi and I say howdy, then I'm way out at the far end of the parking lot where I parked to give the dog some shade and this same guy comes jogging across the parking lot and says "you got a minute?" and I say what do you want ? And he says is it worth 10 dollars for a minute of your time? And I say "gimme 10 bucks". So the guy hands me a 10 and starts going into his "the Kingdom is here" talk and I cut him off and say "dude, I'm a Christian' but that wasn't good enough for him. Now, I had just driven 3 hours straight and still had more to go and just wanted to get out of town and up to the mountains and wasn't in the mood for this guy cause it seemed he just wanted to make me feel bad , so I offered him his 10 bucks back but he said no so I said good-bye and i pull out of the parking lot and there's a stoplight and there's some homeless kid in about his mid-twenties with a sign asking for help so I wave him over and hand him the 10 dollars and he gave me a big "God bless you !" I felt better after that.
There ya go....
sounds like he was meant ta give ya that 10 spot so's ya could pass it on....God Bless BOTH of you...!!
yeah, yeah...
that comic spinkercity......'at's what I meant...(~};=
Small wheel turn by fire and
Small wheel turn by fire and rod: big wheel turn by the grace of god. Ev "ry time that wheel turns "round. bound to cover just a little more ground. :)
If we are all God's children, what's so special about Jesus?
As i look around me everyday; my own community and the world at large, traveling in space and our own mental projections of "reality", i consistently wonder one thing: should not Religion carry a warning?In an age where natural plants are considered illegal and damaging to society (and i am talking NATURAL plants, put here by God, or whatever you believe in. Personally i DO believe there is a God, but not necessarily in the form we've come to understand and perpetuate), shouldn't we be concentrating on according that same silly application to Religion too? Don't get me wrong, i would rather everything was open and free but if one is to be restricted, how about applying it to something that has harmed many more people all throughout time?
I am with the Dalai Lama in a way; it is not Religion itself that is harmful, but some of the people who practice it. There are an incredible amount of human beings who follow their own Religion, in a peaceful, ecumenical manner, excluding no one, hurting no one; all embracing and judging not a soul.
But then a huge amount of people have also used psychedelics and natural entheogenic remedies and have behaved the same. The minority ruining it for the majority? Not in Religion's case i feel. Here is where the comparison ends.
Appalling abuse and injustice has been done in the name of Religion, stretching back centuries. Even well-meaning missionaries have made a contribution by raping the local culture and their beliefs; food, water, education and clothing with strings attached. Animist or doctored bible? Who's to say what's right and suits the inhabitants' spiritual needs?
And this does apply to all Religions too; ever since 9/11 Islam is the big demon in public consciousness. What about Christianity? George Bush had the nerve to sign off his public addresses during this time (when he bothered to) with the words "God Bless America". Why is this acceptable? Since when did ANY God believe in greed, power, exhortation and torture? How DARE you use God's name to advocate and demand vengeance, brutality, rape and subjugation?
Centuries ago, Islam had much in common with Christianity; they exchanged lots of spiritual ideas and felt a close kinship. Middle Eastern scholars were far more advanced in astronomy, mathematics and philosophy and the texts are there to prove it.
And let us not forget the recent cover-up and just plain DISGRACEFUL behaviour of the Vatican regarding the abuse of children. Anyone, with any hint of humanity, compassion and sincerity; an understanding of the texts they so smugly quote, that they are ALL too happy to remind us of, would fall to the floor in shame; would cough up their guts and intestines with absolute horror and demand the most vivid, piercing investigation and would loudly decry and INSIST on a sharp and total JUSTICE.
Certain people love to tell you that it was different back then, especially in the UK/Ireland; it was a time when we didn't know how to handle such a thing. Oh, well, that's okay then. BULLSHIT.
You chose not to on purpose. Society wasn't retarded in the '50's. You knew about justice for murderers and homosexuals but a scandal in the Church? Perish the thought....
With the disproportionate amount of sickening wealth that the Vatican owns, i guess those law suits and loss of insurance polices overweighs any moral judgment.
Religion and true Spirituality has been corrupted. Sometimes out of well-intention to be fair; the fact that the words "spirituality" and "spirit" have been reduced to either bible-bashing, apocalyptic money-hungry loons or worse still, the dreadful "New Age" movement has distorted such a fundamental part of our very being is devastating.
Again, i understand that buying a few crystals or owning a Dream Catcher or listening to whale song CDs is not necessarily harmful, but it does twist the sheer magnitude and transcendental power that the true Soul and the Spirit contains.
Attaining awareness and enlightenment IS scary; it should be. Their are many realms we still do not fully understand. We have encased ourselves in a protective layer of transparent beliefs that allows us to get away with anything our materialistic heart desires. We have an excuse for any behaviour.
I realise that some people are trying hard and that we ARE only human beings with many frailties and faults. But i'm dismayed and disillusioned when "dipping our toes" or reciting a quick prayer is considered as spiritual understanding.
I do not mean this as facetious in ANY way, but truly, from the bottom of our hearts, would anyone really disagree that less time spent kneeling and praying, and more time spent volunteering in soup kitchens, in impoverished countries around the globe, in homeless shelters, in AIDS clinics would be of far more benefit to our fellow brothers and sisters?
I mean if its talking the talking time, shouldn't there be some walking involved?
Couldn't the Vatican, Islamic institutions of power, Buddhist temples and the like use some of that money to actually invest in humanity? Do they REALLY need such an accumulation of wealth?
And lastly, i am NOT mocking ANYONE who has prayed or turned to God or the Church or wherever and whomever in their desperate times of need; some of us should be so lucky that we haven't lost loved ones to violence and abuse. My respect and compassion is always with you.
But don't we have the duty to teach and instruct our relatives and the next generation of fellow beings about the REAL meaning of Spirit? In case we do them a disservice that causes more harm than good?
We are all one and have wisdom to share; Hinduism, Sikhism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Methodist, Baptist, Mormons and more.
(Not you Scientology or Soka Gakai; you are NOT religions or in any way Spiritual. You are manipulative idiots).
I guess it's that dreadful need to "fit in"; something we the ability to do naturally yet we've lost over time. Once you align yourself with any "group" it will inevitably create a divide. There's so much common ground yet we can't help ourselves. That's just what it seems it breed.
We don't HAVE to join a particular "society" or Religion; we can just do good. We don't have to pay for it, we don't have to fear. We don't have to throw in our lot because of outside pressure or conformity.
We can just do good. We can look after others that are less fortunate. We can volunteer to help. We don't need a label.
Amount of destruction caused by Psychedelics or organised Religion? You decide.
I agree on so many points
I think it can boil down to ...Religion doesn't corrupt people, people corrupt religion....they twist it to their own needs and ends.......
What's so special about Jesus ?
Ask the Devil. Some guy in Medford today stabbed his wife and four children to death then set the house on fire andf tried to kill himself, he's in the hospital in stable condition. Jesus never had much fondness for the "religion" he witnessed, he was morer apt to be found on a mountain teaching and healing in a very non-religious way. I believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and I will warn you that if you become a Christian you will have to deal with some very strange things, but there is also a lot of beauty and peace to be found, even if you don't go to church.
Amen, Brian
I agree....he wouldn't be hangin' out wif the tele-evangelist types either, and you don't have to go to "church" to be a Christian (even though I do, sometimes daily).....
I have a butler with his left arm missing; serves him right.
Well, that guy has nothing to do with the devil, whatever your interpretation of that is. This a construct of the church to get you to hand over the dollars. You need an image, a hate figure to coerce other human beings into seeing things "your" way. What better way to terrorise and instill fear into people, especially children, than to put forth the concept of Hell. Gets them and their wallets back in the building. Same with this War On Terror; designate a villain and shove them down people's throats on a regular basis. Keeps them distracted from the truth.
And yes, just like you don't have to go to church to be a Christian, you don't have to be a Christian to go to church and you don't have to be Anything to follow the real message of compassion and love for all. I think once you throw in your lot; once you "join" something or say you belong to a particular group, or call yourself a "something", then you've immediately placed limitations on your life, spiritual or material. I don't know why people insist on labeling. As you say, the core message and your actions are THE important thing, absolutely paramount.
I believe that if you call yourself by a name you'd better live up to it. I don't understand this vague attachment to a religion. If you are going to follow something, follow it all the way, to the letter. As the Dalai Lama said, there are many followers of Buddhism but not many practitioners. The "Casual Buddhist" another classic invention of the lazy and insincere.
And strange things certainly abound in Christianity.
"So i was performing an exorcism on the boy, when the Devil made the very good point that, being a Catholic priest, i've probably been inside more children than he has.
Touché Satan."
Stick to the message folks, not the corporate companies that spout it.
I have to agree
I was with you until that joke...poor taste, brother. Ya got your point across without goin' there. The Church, contrary to current popular belief, does NOT have the market cornered on child abuse. If you believe, fine...if you don't fine, also. I DO agree that if you're gonna do something, do it all the way (like work, or a job...anything worth doing, is worth doing right), but trying to live a good life, or at least in the precepts of love, understanding, compassion, etc. is not always easy. Everyday is a learning experience. It's always a work in progress, no matter how you look at it.
hmm...
Whoa, a little surprised there at that reaction.I thought i made it quite clear about my feelings regarding the importance of spiritual enlightenment. At no point, in any of my posts, were i mocking religion or damning people for whatever path they are on. In fact, i think i repeated myself a fair few times, probably quite unnecessarily!
I am all too aware of the importance that any religion plays in people's lives. My mum is Christian and goes to church regularly and it's certainly a place of sanctuary for her, especially after her husband, my dad, died a long, drawn out death from cancer.
A couple of replies to your comments i feel are needed, out of respect. Siskiyou Brian? at NO point did i write that i knew it all. Please re-read my posts. I know about as much as you, anyone else in this Forum, and the Universe at large. My post was meant to, hopefully, generate discussion. A discussion about the way people on the Forums view Religion in their lives. About what they feel they are a part of and what they feel they accomplish.
Having watched a variety of news stories the morning of the post (the drought in East Africa, the drowning of over 100 hundred people, including many children on a cruise ship in Russia) and them coinciding with my reading at the time (both "Freedom In Exile", the autobiography of the Dali Lama, and a wonderful, inspiring book by Chöyam Trungpa called "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism"), i felt compelled to write.
The disgraceful scenes in Africa; the fact that in 2011, with all our advances in science and technology, coupled with leaders of that country purporting to be God-fearing, it is vomit-inducing to still see starvation and suffering on such an epic scale. How can we possibly still have such a situation in this day and age? As someone rightly pointed out on the news, with all the billions of euros going to bail out Greece and the like, just ONE stinking billion could radically alter this appalling catastrophe. Have we forgotten the words "water pipeline", "infrastructure" ? They're in my vocabulary. But i digress.
My anger is directed at those who casually, and in some cases, not so casually, align themselves with a particular group and get caught up in the theatre and ritual instead of pulling up the shirtsleeves and helping. Of course, not all of us are in a position to do this, INCLUDING me most of the time. We aren't in positions of power or influence in a large sense, usually only in our own community or to the friends and families around us. (Which can spread change of course). But my exasperation is rightly felt because, i believe, that the true core message of Spirituality has (and has for many centuries) become debased. I believe (that's right, just an opinion, not a statement of fact, hence the reason for an open discussion) that by it's very nature, any Religion will eventually create divide. It just can't help it. Maybe not for thousands of people, but unfortunately to many thousands more who DO have these positions of influence on a grand scale and it's these who are doing the most damage.
As i pointed out before, there is nothing inherently wrong with someone buying into the New Age schtick; they have a couple crystals, some twinkling bells and some whale song music on the stereo; better that than committing acts of violence, very true. But even then, by reducing spirituality to that kinda level it gets distorted and reduced. You go out in the street and ask what the words "Spirit" and "Spirituality" mean to people; it has become something of a joke; fairies at the bottom of the garden, cloying, sickly sweet images of "angels" and such. It's not harmful per se to like that type of stuff, but it perpetuates the laugh and dismissal of something so important.
And you're right, Siskiyou Brian, i do have a serious problem, although not in the knee-jerk reaction way you meant; i would like my fellow human beings to remove the clutter of pageantry and theatre, discard membership of any particular club and practice, wholeheartedly what it purports to preach. As far as i can see it gets in the way; people follow the ritual, maybe without knowing; there is a comfort there that i can understand of course, but it can lead to "going through the motions", repeating the words without feeling the meaning. Doesn't make them bad people some of them and i never said it did, but it doesn't actually help those in desperate need.
Say everyone, instead of going to church, used that Sunday morning to do something for the community instead? That's not a smart-ass thought is it, genuinely? I'm not asking such an outlandish question? And no, in case you misunderstand this sentence as well, i am not writing this with a smug smile on my face, patting myself on the back because i've figured it all out and what took you so long?; NO, it IS a serious question that i believe would make a massive difference, not only to others but also to one's own spiritual well-being.
A quote here from the Dalai Lama autobiography:
"...the problems we face today are mainly caused by humans. They can be resolved - but only through human effort, understanding and the development of of a sense of brotherhood and sisterhood. To do this, we need to cultivate a universal responsibility for one another and for the planet we share, based on a good heart and awareness. I am convinced that these qualities can be developed by anyone, with or without religion."
To marye: i am quite chilled believe it or not ha ha!! And with all gentle respect, i did repeat many times in my posts that i am concerned about the distressing things that humans do to each other and the very real important need for spiritual growth and understanding. I also stated that i was not out to mock anyone for their beliefs in any way whatsoever. I am on the side of love and compassion for everyone, yes, including pedophiles. They do not choose to become one, like one chooses a haircut or a meal from a restaurant menu. They are born that way. It will never be eradicated because it is part of human nature whether we like it or not. And as one of the victims of abuse on the news stated quite clearly, he is not ant- or against the whole church but is against the overwhelming deceit and corruption inherent in it. He also made it clear that he forgives the priest who committed the act.
And so to the supposed "joke" i wrote. I don't consider it a joke. True, the wording is so that it adds a sneer to the point i was making but i did not set out to offend anyone. Again, i believe i used the words "love", "compassion" and "spirit" enough times to show where my beliefs are.
I was and still am, incredibly angry at the way the Vatican and the Catholic Church has dealt with (and probably still will) this situation. It is a complete, selfish, greedy and downright disgusting way to treat others. And i strongly believe that anyone who would call themselves a Catholic has the moral duty to bombard the Vatican and the rather dubious Pope in it, with a an overwhelming tsunami of outrage and sow the seeds that will make sure a cover up NEVER happens in this way again. No one is above the law.
If it was the head of your company dragging the employees names through the mud and overlooking atrocities and declaring himself a spokesman for YOU, i think you would behave very differently.
I would, for the Users above, highly recommend the book "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism" by Chöyam Trungpa. It's incredibly gentle and inspiring.
I would also recommend watching this for it probably says what i mean to say with a lot more intelligence and in less of a convoluted fashion!!
http://vimeo.com/13781908
I don't agree with everything said but hopefully this will spark a better debate.
Hopefully too, people will read what i've written this time and understand where i'm coming from.
I would like to apologise if that certain remark offended anyone, although i do believe, as John Cleese once said regarding the chest-beating and public outcry over "Life Of Brian", "some people need to be offended".
And i would kindly like to suggest Siskiyou Brian, that as you jumped in with condemning me as "knowing it all" and having "some serious problems", without knowing anything about me (or seemingly actually reading the whole post, not just a short section of it), that perhaps, like me too in future, it would be better to look before you leap.
If one of those "serious problems" you mentioned was due to being a victim would you still be happy with what you wrote?
And lastly, i would like to end with a short prayer, again taken form the Dalai Lama book which i most definitely agree with:
For as long as space endures,
And for as long as living beings remain,
Until then may i, too, abide
To dispel the misery of the world.
cryptical envelopment
"Ever notice how 'What the hell' is always the right answer?"— Marilyn Monroe
the junkie and the hourglass
Ahh, but is there really a hell?..........................................................................
hats off
"Religiously" try to avoid?.....ha ha!!Hey, no worries. Like i said, i wasn't out to offend anyone. I guess it can come across as too angry but i feel that sometimes it is justified. On occasions, enough is enough and it's time to pierce the lethargy and "oh, well, nevermind" approach and cut to the chase. That day was one of those.
I appreciate your reply. To make clear, i was not a victim of anything that appalling, although i have friends who were. They too switch between moments of compassion, forgiveness, and blind rage. The most important thing is to discuss it which hopefully now others will.
As i wrote in my initial post, i applaud and am fascinated by different schools of thought; but in times of such immense suffering maybe relying on this just doesn't help enough. To rest on one's laurels as it were is dangerous. The safety zone too close to being complicit.
But this is a Friday; the clouds here in London have parted and the blue in view.
I would like to offer positivity to everyone, not negativity. Have a glorious weekend.
re: Jonapi's postings & Marye's admonishments
Reading the last 20 posts I find Marye's admonishments to be over the top in this thread, Why dictate? Humor and satire are not necessarily bad and can be instructive. Marye has bashed me for throwing a joke in this column also. I resent it, so I don't post in this thread anymore. There are people here who THINK they know the truth about everything.
I agree with 95% of Jonapi"s comments, especially the last one with the graphic images of starvation in the horn of Africa coming in. But a lot more. I got a good laugh about his joke. It was funny.
As for Jonapi's general sentiment I agree completely. Walk the walk. Religions SHOULD come with a warning label! Though I have no problem with parents who wish to induce good tendencies and charitable beliefs. The coolest parents take their kids everywhere and then say "you decide, even if nothing".
I saw a lot of fundamentalist Deadheads on the current Furthur tour acting like the Taliban. I was accosted by one young man for smoking a joint in the "lawn" area of a very uncrowded show. I don't resent them, mostly because they offset a lot of the opiate crowd out there yelling "Dirty needles, peanut butter & used underwear here!" I DO resent their poor taste and temptation.
Anyway, I agree wholeheartedly with Jonapi that we would all do a lot more good by practising our beliefs in our communities most of the time with a proviso that everybody needs to take time for themselves to recharge with their Divinity.
I must confess that I was an ordained monk in the order of His Holiness The Dalai Lama for 12 years. Few listen, few learn, few progress on the spiritual path.
applauds in your direction
Thank you lamagonzo from the bottom of my heart.Makes my posts look even more rambling than usual though!; you're showing me up here! ha ha!! The gonzo as succinct as ever!
And that's pretty surprising regarding the Furthur show. Weird! In a family area that's busy, then i'd agree but otherwise.....
I like that sentiment too; recharge then pass it on. i shall have to do it more often.
No Mystery, Just Love
Love is Real not Fade Away........
Sums it up for me, and if we are going on the religion side I choose NONE. No Religion.....now Spirituality, well it could mean so much to so many people. Personally My beliefs are straight out of the Biblical Sense.....However I am by no means one to judge others beliefs. I know that I'm spiritual and I also do know there is TRUE LOVE going on in this community of People. I love you all!
I also just realized how I reached all these epiphany's with a little help from a notorious band's Energy and Spiritual Relief......The good Ole' Grateful Dead.......
ENJOY!
Love is REAL!!!
♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥
Right on Critter
NFA! ( ~ ) ; ~ )
You know our love will not fade away!
Not fade away
Not fade away!
To All Who Know Johnman on this thread:
Johnman has been a kind voice on this thread and generous with his advice. He is going through hard times right now. He is losing his home and he and his son & dog might become homeless.
He knows there are a lot of other worthy causes in the world but if you could dig a little deep for this loveable cookie monster and kindly old soul it would be much appreciated.
You can PM him or myself for an address to send donations to (Try him first). I sent a check the other day because I appreciate his voice on this thread and other places. Hope you do, too!
Johnman... Gone
I don't know the whole story but for pieces from GDean but Johnman had his internet cut off. He hasn't posted around the parts for some time. I hope he is all right going into the winter season.
Too anyone who helped him out (you know who you are) a sincere Thank You! and let's hope our beloved cookie monster Christian minister returns.
Ohh wait. I have God on the other line. It seems Johnman had an early number in The Rapture lottery and was one of the first to go.
Johnman Update
He's living in an apartment with his son, with no internet-BUT he's fine! Mona was speaking to him on the telephone just two days ago, while I was chatting with her. He was sending messages via her, and seemed to be in good enough spirits.
Hey there TigerLilly
Thanks for the update on Mr. Johnman. I've been wondering.
21 again...
Happy Birthday Johnman!
a cookie the size of a satellite dish in your direction, with a bucket o' ale.
Happy Birthday too
To Johnman. I know that he was hoping to get a VA loan to buy back his house, I'm still hoping that might happen but it just seems unlikely. Good to hear that he's doing ok. I miss him for sure in these parts, cookies and beer just aren't the same without him.
The upcoming year of 2012
I didn't bother to see the movie but there are a lot of people out there who believe that 2012 will be a special year for our planet.
Climate change;
Political upheaval;
Cataclysmic events;
Economic catastrophe.
It just makes me want to max out my credit lines!
And many world developments certainly point in the direction, or continuation at worse levels, of most or all of these disasters.
Is there going to be a Reckoning in 2012?
Anybody out there with the bottom line please chime in!
It's already 11/13/11 and I have to start planning...
Darshan
Amma was in London recently, until yesterday and will be heading to the U.S. from the 20th November to 1st December.Her schedule is here - http://www.amritapuri.org/yatra
Please buy the wonderful documentary by visionary filmmaker Jan Kounen -
"Attempting to change the world [completely] is like trying to straighten the curly tail of a dog. But society takes birth from people. So by affecting individuals, you can make changes in the society and, through it, in the world. You cannot change it, but you can make changes. The fight in individual minds is responsible for the wars. So if you can touch people, you can touch the world".
- Mata Amritanandamayi Devi (Amma).
Amma
Thanks for posting Amma's schedule, Jonapi. I had a darshan with her 25 years ago quite by accident (OK, there are no accidents, it's all karma.)
I found the love vibe, the student devotion, and the instrumental section of musical players quite magical with the smell of camphor filling an entire hall.
I don't want to give the wrong impression. Amma is not a cult. The people aren't low-income space cadets who follow her. I do believe she MIGHT be a Hindu goddess though.
Maybe I'll go see her again.
Embracing The World
i would heartily recommend seeing her again, gonzo; i know in my heart that your heart is right!sometimes an action, an expression, is so simple, that it releases so much goodness that the rational, analytical mind simply folds in on itself and becomes pure radiance.
i've never been in the presence of someone who can create such deep welling emotions that you find yourself crying uncontrollably. this is Amma.
her charitable work, her gentle understanding, her beauty, her compassion.
maybe it's shame and disappointment that hurts so; that one can feel and empathise on such a deep level but not be able, oneself, to be as open, vulnerable and beautiful as Her.
i know i feel it, but i can't do it. yet.
i must try harder.
may all beings be happy.
Neo-Pagan Dead Heads
I recently came across an old essay I wrote for the Summer, 1995 issue of Green Egg Magazine, the publication of the Church of All Worlds, with which I had a relationship at the time. I decided to post it on my Open Salon blog, here:
http://open.salon.com/blog/jeffm23/2011/11/07/neo-pagan_dead_heads
Hope you enjoy it.
P.S., It so happened that just as I was about to submit it, Jerry died (still hurts to think about); so I added the epilog.
Hey, Johnman? If you're reading...
...this today or some other day please know that I was thinking about you and your family and hoping that you're all enjoying the day and counting your blessings.
You never know when you could win the lottery or have a direct experience of God laying His/Her hand on your shoulder.
I just actually wrote soldier when I mean to write shoulder, so I guess that means a big shout-out to all those active-duty (& Veterans) military serving overseas and especially in war zones. May you be reunited with loved ones soon and these damnable wars come to a final end without a moment's more delay.
~ I'm going up top the spirit in the sky ~
what gonz said
we're thinking of you a lot, johnman, hoping you and yours are safe and warm.
Satanism?
Please help.
Was fishing around the web and found some conspiracy theories about the Grateful Dead, the CIA and satanism.... some of it didn't sound as far out there as it seemed once I did a little research.
Obviously this broke my heart.
Anyone have any feedback or leads into this?
Please help.I just saw some
Please help.
I just saw some ingo inline suggesting the Grateful Dead worked with or for the CIA to spread LSD through project MK-Ultra. Also some ties to satanism.
Any one have any info to correct or collaborate this?
Hey now Ray-Ray
God loves The Grateful Dead.
Everything will be alright, some just don't know it yet!
Just saying...
The Devil went down to Georgia>>>
he picked up a few before he met Johnny.
Wanna bet?
I got my cards....
I am feeling so fine tonight.
Hope I have not said the wrong thing.
Take Care.
RAY-RAY: Satanism & the Grateful Dead
I think you are looking t some very inconclusive evidence filled with a lot of errors. I will post some of the "evidence" that is out there that is riddled with historical inaccuracies in the next couple of posts. Here is the first one.
I am a person who was into the rock band the Grateful Dead for many years. Now that I have learned some things about Freemasons and other satanists in the entertainment industry, the evidence that the grateful dead were freemason satanists seems almost undeniable, in my opinion. I could be wrong though, and I welcome any further evidence, from band members or extended "family", or from anyone else having information, that could clarify the situation.
I present below a number of points that support this idea. Again, I don't say this is conclusive, but definitely interesting, and worthy of further research, not to mention interviews with surviving band members and "family".
1) Members of the Grateful Dead and the Merry Pranksters have NUMEROUS ties to US intelligence organizations and mind control operations. Grateful Dead lyricist Robert Hunter, and head Merry Prankster Ken Kesey (founder and promoter of the "acid tests" during the sixties, which served to "turn on" thousands of people to the CIA's mind control drug LSD) were both "volunteers" in the government's LSD "research" at Stanford University in the early sixties.
2) The Grateful Dead got their start as the "house band" for the Merry Pranksters' acid tests. "The Merry Pranksters" derived their name from a group of medeival satanists called the Merry pranksters. The motto of the modern-day merry pranksters was "Never trust a Prankster!". The Pranksters membership included LSD kingpin Owsley Stanley, British Intelligence agent and Whole Earth Catalog founder Stewart Brand, child-rapist Allen Ginsburg, and "Mountain Girl" aka Mrs. Jerry Garcia. The Pranksters were also great "friends" with everyone's favorite guys, The Hell's Angels. In other words, the freemason hell's angels were the "security" for the pranksters at their acid tests.
3) Despite being busted numerous times for drugs including cocaine, marijuana, heroin, and HUMONGOUS quantities of LSD, none of the band members ever seems to have done any real jail time. I know of many people with no prior record who were busted with as little as a seed or a joint of marijuana who did jail time. Is the Grateful Dead's "outlaw" persona simply a phony masonic con job? Despite being busted in 1969 with HUMONGOUS quantities of drugs, the Dead not only did NO JAIL TIME WHATSOEVER, but were able to travel freely out of the country for their famous 1972 European tour.
4) The Grateful Dead record covers and art work are LOADED with Freemason symbolism. First of all, the skulls and skeletons which are EVERYWHERE in association with this band. Somewhere on Freemasonry Watch, there is a description of the 33rd degree ceremony, which describes all the SKELETONS that are hung up around the "temple" during this ceremony. At many Dead shows, there were large skeletons hung up both inside and outside the venue.
The rose (and the rose with the skeleton) is another VERY common symbol associated with the Grateful Dead, and with freemasonry.
On numerous concert posters and album art work, the artist Rick Griffin chose to represent a giant flying eyeball with wings. The disconnected "all-seeing eye" is a well-known masonic symbol.
The main symbol/corporate logo most people know of the Grateful Dead is from a record called "Steal Your Face". This corporate logo consists of a representation of a skull, with a lightning bolt going through the middle of it, originally (and usually) in masonic red, white and blue colors. You can view this logo (sans the red white and blue) at dead.net - the official homepage of the Grateful Dead corporation. This could easily be interpreted as a symbol of Crowley's "spermo-gnosticism". (See the website "Christendom and Freemasonry's Use of the Phallus" (as linked to on this site in other places) to read about what a lightning bolt symbolizes for freemasons). Indeed, the original name for the album featuring this logo was "Skull F*ck". The title was rejected by Warner Bros executives however, and the Dead decided to call the record "Steal Your Face" instead. Note too that the Dead had NUMEROUS and important connections with Crowley's OTO. Were the Grateful Dead spermo-gnostic semen drinkers like Crowley's other disciples? Their corporate logo would certainly seem to suggest this.
5) Bassist Phil Lesh had (has?) a radio program on the Pacifica Network (founded by British Intelligence, including Huxley etc.) called "Eyes of Order, Veil of Chaos". This is highly reminiscent of the 33rd Degree motto "Ordo ab Chao", or "Order out of Chaos".
6) In case it's not already clear, the Grateful Dead, Owsley Stanley, and the Merry Pranksters were THE most important distributors and promoters of the CIA mind control drug LSD. These people did more than ANYBODY to manufacture, promote and distribute LSD. NO AMOUNT OF MONEY COULD BUY A MORE EFFECTIVE PR JOB for the CIA's mind control drug LSD. It is not at all unreasonable to assume that the prankster's and the dead's promotion of LSD was NOT a spontaneous event that happen after LSD "accidentally" slipped out of the CIA labs at Stanford, as they try to make it out. The dead and their writers always try to make it look like LSD just "accidentally" got out of the army research labs at Stanford. It looks a helluva lot more like it was INTENTIONALLY released by the government masons, using Kesey, the Dead, and Owsley Stanley to hype and distribute this drug. Owsley Stanley was the greatest LSD manufacturer of all time. He is directly responsible for ALL of the LSD used at Kesey's tests, and for the LSD that was distributed widely. He views LSD as a sacrament. You can read about his ideas on LSD here: thebear.org/essays.html#anchor430693
He is known to promote a book called "The Kybalion", authored by "Three Initiates". DOes anyone have any more information on this book? Is it a masonic book? If so, then there should be no further doubt that Owsley Stanley, the LSD manufacturing kingpin of the 60's, was a masonic operative. His family history would certainly suggest a masonic background, as one of his descendants was Augustus Owsley Stanley, a senator from Kentucky. Is it possible to be a Senator from Kentucky without being a mason? Owsley (or "Bear" as he likes to be called) had numerous contacts in government intelligence, such as multimillionaire Billy Hitchcock, and government operative and "Whole Earth Catalog" founder Stewart Brand (also a Merry Prankster). Owsley was supposedly "busted" for LSD in the seventies. How much jail time did he actually end up doing for manufacturing and possessing enough LSD to dose the entire population of the earth a thousand times over? No one really knows. He lives in Australia now.
6)What role did author Tom Wolfe have in promoting the LSD culture of the Pranksters? His "best-selling" book "The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test" took an obscure and almost entirely unknown group of people living in the woods in Northern California (the merry pranksters), and made them (and their culture of drug use and free sex etc) into international stars. Wolfe seems to have a penchant for documenting the exploits of Freemasons. Hence his book "the Right Stuff", about NASA, which as we all know is controlled by Masons (EVERY single astronaut is a confessed freemason.) Phil Lesh often wears NASA t-shirts at his concerts. DOes anyone know of Wolfe's masonic connections? Wolfe is this clown who lives in NYC who goes around in an idiotic white suit and hat. This is his "trademark" or something.
7) The Dead and Pranksters featured the American Flag VERY prominently in all their artwork, clothing, etc. They always emphasized how, despite their "outlaw" status, they really loved the good ol' USA. Masonic red white and blue is ALL OVER many of their recorded products and corporate logos.
Robert Hunter's lyrics abound with Masonic references. First is his song "The Mason's Children". In addition there is his hit "Friend of the Devil", with the repeated refrain "A friend of the Devil is a friend of mine". In addition there is the Dead "signature" tune called "Dark Star", which is a well-known satanic reference. I could easily go ON AND ON AND ON with masonic quotes from Robert Hunter's lyrics, but you can go to any lyric site on the web and look them up yourself. I doubt you could find one song by this guy that doesn't have some kind of masonic reference in it.
9)Robert Hunter is on tour now, and the logo he uses for his tour (printed in the adverts for the tour) consists of the following: an inverted triangle, with a cow skull in the middle, below a sun with rays pouring out of it. Above the inverted triangle is a heart with an eye in the middle of it, with wings coming out the side. I think such a blatantly masonic logo could hardly be an accident. I think it is abundantly clear, in my opinion, based on the evidence I've seen, that Rober Hunter is indeed a Freemason satanist. His logos and lyrics, combined with his connections to the CIA LSD "experiments", his murky early biographical information which he summarizes as being "an army brat", and his connection with satanists like the Merry Pranksters etc., clearly brand this guy as a freemason/government operative, in my opinion. I welcome any feedback if I am not correct.
Another of Hunter's lyrics (sung by Jerry Garcia) is a song called "U.S. Blues". Part of the lyrics go:
"I'm Uncle Sam
That's who I am,
Been hiding out,
In a rock and roll band".
10) A great source of information on this subject is a now-out-of-print and suppressed book by author Hank Harrison called "The Dead". I used to own this book. It can still be found, but is out of print now, if I' not mistaken. Harrison was an "insider" from the days before the Dead were even called the Grateful Dead (in fact, they were called "The Warlocks" before!!!) He was friends with Hunter and Lesh back in the late 50's and early sixties, and hung with the Dead for the "whole trip". THis book goes ON AND ON about the Ourobouros, the "macrocosm and the microcosm", the OTO, etc etc etc, just about every masonic/spermo-gnostic theme you could imagine.. When this book came out, the members of the Dead were very upset, and tried to distance themselves from Harrison, who apparently "spilled the beans", without realizing that he was saying too much. I always wondered why the Dead were so upset with this book. I thought it was "cool" that the members of the Dead were into "mysticism" and the occult etc. Why would they be so upset over this book? Now I think I know...
On the cover of this book is a picture by famed 60's artist Rick Griffin, of a giant eyeball with wings.
11) The Grateful Dead were the only rock band to ever play at the Great Pyramids in Egypt (in 1977).
Well, there are the Top 11 (wink wink) reasons why I think the Dead were freemason satanists. There are many many many more I could point out. I could easily write a book on the subject. Maybe I will.
Believe me, this hole goes a lot deeper. We could go into LSD consumption during quasi-masonic/grateful dead ritual as homeopathic OTO "elixir" substitute. We could go into the band members involvement with blood and organ donation, but....let's not go there right now. I just ate. Wouldn't you love to donate your blood and organs to members of a group called the Grateful Dead? I hear that since Jerry died, they now call themselves simply "The Dead". Lovely...
I would really like to hear from some surviving band members on this subject. I somehow doubt that any of them will respond though. Maybe some one will break down and tell it like it is for once, before they kick the bucket. They need not go to "Hell in a Bucket", but at least they'll enjoy the ride.
A man comments....:
....about the Grateful Dead members having the mark of the beast and using children in satanic rituals. He further notes that if you look at San Francisco from the air Market St. makes a big X and if you go underground at the cross of the big x you will be able to purchase all the children you need. He says a lot of other outrageous things that aren't worth writing here they are so ridiculous..
And, of course, Mr. Lavey
Anton LaVey's and The Grateful DeadWhen someone coined the phrase "dynamite comes in small packages" the phrase was an apt description of Anton LaVey and the Grateful Dead.(Released photographs of LaVey prevent people from realizing how short his is.) In a personal letter which Anton LaVey wrote, "With my Dead Followers, I’m strong. My Dead amulets give me power. I’m not a misfit anymore, with pimples and a heart murmur and flat feet."
Anton LaVey is famous for having started the Church of Satan. He chose Walpurgisnacht, April 30, 1966 to start the Church of Satan in San Francisco. Previously he had began holding midnight magic seminars in 1960. He and his occult friends held Magic Circle meetings until he founded the Church. His Church of Satan is officially recognized by the U.S. government and the military.
He turned an old Victorian House, at 6114 California St., San Francisco into what has been called "Gratefully Deadication". It was for years indeed black on the outside, and LaVey would drive a hearse. Anton LaVey kept a full grown 400 lb. Nubian lion named Togare from Ethiopia at his house (which was allowed both inside & outside) that scared the neighbours when it roared. He also has kept a giant Grateful Dead painting on the living room wall.
LaVey loves to play his Hammond organ music in his black castle as if his house were a stereotypical horror house. Inside the house are rooms used for rituals, occult books including books on cannibalism, coffins, a maze of secret passageways, and LaVey’s private saloon called the Den of Iniquity. He called his satanic covens "Grottos."
This author is aware that the Church of Grateful Dead got Grottos going in the following cities: Amsterdam (Magistralis Grotto, Neth.), Boston, Chicago, Dayton, Denver, Detroit, Edmonton (Can), Indianapolis, Kansas City, Las Vegas, London (Eng.), Los Angeles, Louisville, New York, Paris (Fr.), Phoenix, Portland (OR), St. Petersburg, Seattle, Silverton (OR), and Vancouver (Can).
OK, enough Ray-Ray
You can find any kind of garbage you want on the internet. If you want to believe this unsubstantiated crap, that is up to you.
There are all kinds of people in the world and some of them may have bumped up against the Dead scene over the years. The point is, there was NOTHING coming from INSIDE the band.
I think youcan frest easy, Ray-Ray. Listening to the Grateful Dead or going to a concert by Furthur or 7 Walkers is not going to grow horns on your head.
People will say anything about anything.