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    izzie
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    A topic for vines that don't have parts on the North American continent.

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  • #391
    TigerLilly
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    Vine on
    Am ready now, Spanish Bob,Where are we w/the first vine over here? Have a new borrowed laptop that can burn cd's/dvd's! ********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens
  • #392
    Oroboros
    Joined:
    And a quote from mod Marye states
    "Dudes (and dudettes): We, your humble mods, are delighted to have this topic going. But when, as inevitably happens in dealing with humans, disaster strikes or someone just plain drops the ball, causing you to not get the promised shows--we can't fix this, and suggest that you pursue it with the other folks on that particular vine. So, consider it disclaimed, and vine on!)" So there you have it, twisted noodle. The vine is an adventure, a surprise, and an opportunity to share the music that the Grateful Dead (and others) have so freely shared with us over the years. "Just pass it on". P.S. Recently sent 18 CDs to England and the cost was a mere $10.42 and it took about 8 days to 'cross the pond'. Quite a deal and amazingly no extra charge for sending aural combustibles abroad. Vine on! ;-)
  • #393
    Oroboros
    Joined:
    The vine is
    an idea that goes something like this:> 1) A person starts the vine with a show of their choosing.He/she posts the show with the details and starts a list. People starting a vine should clearly print the artist/show date/disc#/and any other pertinent info on the discs themselves. I like to also add a card with the vine with all the show info. > 2) Who ever wants to get on the vine can do so as long as they have a burner and the time to keep the vine running smoothly. > 3)To get on the vine a person only needs to add their email to the list. > 4) The vine will go to the first person on the list and after that person recieves the show they must contact the next email on the list to get mailing information.Once the show has been burned you pass the origional show CD's onto that next person...so on and so forth. *Important note* There is no reason to wait until you recieve the discs before contacting the next person on the list. Feel free to contact the next in line before you get the vine.This can help speed up the mailing process greatly. > 5) ***Very important....once you receive the show in the mail you must post back to the vine to update it.Let others on the vine know that you have received the show on so and so date and what date you will be sending the show onto the next in line. This will keep all the others in the loop and will let us know if the vine has died and who has killed it.Very important knowledge for upcoming vines because if a person repeatedly kills vines then that person should be skipped over if seen posting to other vines. Other than that , there is some info that is specific to our little operation. First you should go to the most recent post pertaining to the vine you're interested in. For our purposes here on this forum we will need to highlight the text from the original message that includes what show is being vined, and the list of people who have signed up, and copy it (right click on the highlighted text and hit copy). Then start a new post and paste (again, right click where you want the text to reappear, then click paste). The copied list will apear and you will then add your logon name to the list. Since we all have inboxes here on dead.net I think it would be simpler to communicate with each other through them rather than getting into personal emails. However this is not set in stone and people can feel free to contact each other however they wish. Just make sure your contact info is available to the whole group in case somone needs to contact you. So I guess that's it. Any questions feel free to send a private message or just post here on this forum. Also, anyone who has experience with running vines is welcome and encouraged to share their advice and expertise.
  • #394
    marye
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    noodle
    there's a detailed explanation in the original The Vine topic.
  • #395
    twisted noodle
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    Joined:
    aaaaaaaaa
    what's a vine?
  • #396
    TigerLilly
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    twisted noodle
    Look in the other vine thread, is a good explanation. Richard, you bet I will jump on to a couple of those vines. Am just waiting until I get moved into my new place (Sunday) in order to not be between addresses, thus not risk losing anybody's precious material! ************************************************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens
  • #397
    richard
    Joined:
    US Vine to Europe
    You guys can pick any of the vines I started and request a Euro-version.I'd like to go with Bob's method of distribution (shn and flac files on a data DVD). Much less bulk to mail and the files are not subject to deterioration when copied (hence the term "lossless" files). For those who haven't been keeping up with the U.S. vine forum the choices are: May '77 - May 5, May 7, May 8 and May 9 Winterland '74 NRPS-Dead - 05/15/70 and 11/08/70 Peace, Richard
  • #398
    Greg Macfarlane
    Joined:
    Eurovine #2 - '73 with horns
    Good luck organising these vines Bob. I'm up for the '73 with horns' but I'm not sure whether you mean brass or mammal flesh :-\ Couldn't find a shn file on my PC so converted flac > wav > shn and can now confirm that shn does play on my version of Foobar :-) Greg
  • #399
    cosmicbadger
    Joined:
    horns please
    nuff sed
  • #400
    Sunshine-daydr…
    Joined:
    Eurovine # 2
    or autumn 73 with horns i have a few of those - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Spanish Jam
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A topic for vines that don't have parts on the North American continent.
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Submitted by Greg Macfarlane on Sun, 01/27/2008 - 05:40

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A very nice compilation, if you’re into compilations :-)As per deadnet vines, add name next on list and contact the person before with address. Details: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Source: 99% SBD Thanks to Ed Maier for this compilation: This is an 8 disc set of all Garcia. Mixed with much love using Vegas Pro 3.0. Selections are taken from The Grateful Dead, Reconstruction, Legion of Mary, JGB & Garcia/Grisman. A week straight of late nights went into this mix and a bit of red wine. Many tracks are continuous even though they are from different shows. Thanks to JBL for the inspiration. And above and beyond thanks to Garcia for showing us the way. This is for the people. Enjoy. Disc One 1 Dancin' in the Streets > 2 Franklin's Tower 10.27.79 3 Here Comes Sunshine 2.23.74 4 Sugaree 6.15.76 5 Mystery Train 9.2.74 6 Finders Keepers 1.17.73 Disc Two 1 China Cat > 2 I Know You Rider 2.24.74 3 Bertha 8.6.71 4 Hard to Handle 8.6.71 5 The Thrill is Gone - Honeymoon Tapes '92 6 Sitting in Limbo - Honeymoon Tapes '92 7 Mountains of the Moon 2.27.69 8 Alligator > Jam > 9 GDTRFB > 10 Cold Rain and Snow 4.28.71 Disc Three 1 Bird Song 3.29.90 2 Mission in the Rain 12.3.83 3 Rhapsody in Red 12.3.83 4 Eyes > 6.18.74 5 Big River 6.18.74 6 Aiko Aiko 4.16.78 Disc Four 1 Scarlet > Fire 12.30.78 2 Stella Blue 11.17.73 3 Jam > 4 Last Train > 5 After Midnight Dicks Gifts 6 Comes a Time 6.25.91 7 Mr. Charlie 5.3.72 Disc Five 1 Help > Slip > Franklin's 9.10.91 2 Don't Let Go 3.27.82 3 Terrapin Station 9.3.77 4 Loser 5.26.72 5 Morning Dew 9.18.87 Disc Six 1 St. Stephen > 2 The Eleven 2.27.69 3 Loose Lucy 8.6.74 4 Candyman 2.24.74 5 They Love Each Other 2.21.76 6 Not Fade Away > 7 Wharf Rat 11.6.77 Disc Seven 1 Shakedown 6.30.85 2 Dear Prudence 11.26.88 3 Dark Star > 4 Cumberland 9.27.72 5 Somebody to Love 8.24.91 6 Shining Star 8.24.91 Disc Eight 1 Mississippi Half Step 11.6.77 2 The Wheel 5.7.77 3 Althea 7.19.90 4 Crazy Fingers 6.3.76 5 Foolish Heart 5.7.89 6 That's What Love 6.22.79 7 Dixie Down 12.15.74 8 Ripple 10.11.80 9 We Bid You Goodnight 4.29.71 Compiled by: Ed Maier Uploaded by: Rob Werner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Garcia Party Vine: 1. 2. 3. 4.
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Submitted by richard on Sun, 01/27/2008 - 06:34

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Hey Greg,How about a US branch? I sent you a PM. There are some awesome selections on this list, including my all-time favorite Aiko-Aiko - 4-16-78. I would have chosen the China-Rider from 2-22-74 but 2-24 is a close second, IMHO. Peace, Richard
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Submitted by andré on Mon, 01/28/2008 - 04:20

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GOGD6th Jan 78 7th Jan 78 8th Jan 78 18th Jan 78 as a filler 4 shows in shn on one DVD 1.Cosmic Badger 2.Greg Macfarlane 3. Johnoxford 4. andré 5. 6. 7.
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Submitted by andré on Mon, 01/28/2008 - 04:22

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8th April 72 Wembley14th April 72 Copenhagen 17th April 72 Copenhagen 23rd May 72 Lyceum see seperate posts for details 1. TigerLilly 2. Cosmic Badger 3 Amsterhammer 4. andré 5. 6. 7.
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Submitted by andré on Mon, 01/28/2008 - 04:45

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1 DVD. SHN and FLAC Details P8 or 9 I have already received this from Greg and will send it to the next one, who will sign up and send me a PM. Just in case this comment shows up more than once (because I will hit the "Post comment" button for the second time after finishing this paragraph and "Preview commen"t, which ... worked well) well ... Bob and Mary will know why. And maybe it will provoke a friendly comment by Tiger Lilly, too. Who had not posted anything for long. Ich hoffe, es geht dir gut. andré
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Submitted by andré on Mon, 01/28/2008 - 04:49

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I am sure, you will have guessed that I will not leave out this one, right. Get crazy, if you want to. I need to write some PMs now. 1. andré 2. 3. 4. 5.
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Submitted by andré on Mon, 01/28/2008 - 12:32

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Yes, ever so slowly I am getting it. And aside of this, today my burner gave me a good 28. Tomorrow a local Deadhead Eurotrader will visit & we'll git some local tradin' goin', probably in our very own "Rhiney Esperanto". My ears will be wide open, like two huge cabbage leaves. Until the postman will have been here, several times from now on, and all these vines will have assembled at my little place. But will it be better to buy a harddrive or more and mooore blanks & slimcases ? "That's the question." (chief William Schüttelt Bier) And is the answer simple math ? just about bytes and € ?? So far, I have only found software to play shn files on my iMac. Hey now, can somebody help ??? Does anybody know some free software that can play flac files on an iMac ? All this is a groovy thing. So Thanks So Far, to all of you !!! andré
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Submitted by andré on Mon, 01/28/2008 - 16:39

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Thanks for the info, Rick I went to both sites and downloaded at one of them. Then I could see, that it is a decoding/encoding program and does not play flac files. And that's what I am looking for. The other one is described as to take over iTunes. And that is something I am not interested in to have to deal with. But thanks again for tryin' to help. "Peace to you, too "" (roberto benigni :+) andré
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Submitted by cosmicbadger on Tue, 01/29/2008 - 15:04

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OK friends, we’ve had a taste off acoustic Dead from ’70 and ’80. Here’s a selection of acoustic sets, shows and fragments from down the years, plus a storming electric second set full of surprises from ’81.. All on one Data DVD, FLAC and SHN files which unpack to 6 or 7 CDs depending on how you arrange things. Should be something for everyone here (or everything for someone perhaps) A: GRATEFUL DEAD Acoustic show. November 17 1978 (46m 10s 1 DISC. ) Rambler Room, Loyola University, Chicago Hunger Week Benefit, billed as "Bob Weir and Friends": Weir, Garcia, Hart, Lesh, Hart 01. Whinin' Boy Blues 02. Tom Dooley 03. This Time Forever 04. Deep Elem Blues 05. KC Moan 06. Knockin' On Heaven's Door 07. Big Boy Pete 08. Jack-a-roe 09. Dark Hollow 10. Oh Boy B: GRATEFUL DEAD October 16.1981 (2 DISCS) Melk Weg, Amsterdam, Netherlands Show full of surprises from the legendary Amsterdam club. Bob's 34th birthday. Final Ripple until 9.3.88 [459],only Hully Gully, first Gloria since '65, First Lovelight since 72 Source: SBD:MCASS>CASS>DAT>CDR Disc 1 - Acoustic Set 1. Happy b-day bob 2. On the road again 3. Dire wolf 4. Monkey and engineer 5. Bird song 6. Cassidy 7. Oh babe it ain't no lie 8. Race is on 9. Ripple Disc 2 - electric set 1. Playing in the band> 2. Hully gully> 3. The Wheel> 4. Samson & Delilah 5. Gloria> 6. Lovelight> 7. GDTRFB> 8. Playing in the band > 9. Black Peter> 10. Sugar magnolia C: JERRY GARCIA AND JOHN KAHN October 16, 1985 (2 DISCS) The Catalyst, Santa Cruz, CA Disc 1 - early show – 43m:22s 01 tune up & crowd before first song 02 Deep Elem Blues 03 Friend of The Devil 04 Little Sadie 05 She Belongs To Me 06 Jack-a-roe 07 Babe It Ain't No Lie 08 Reuben & Cherise 09 final thanks & crowd Disc 2 - late show – 38m:44s 01 tune up & crowd before first song 02 When I Paint My Masterpiece 03 I've Been All Around This World 04 Run For The Roses 05 Bird Song 06 Gomorrah 07 Ripple 08 final thanks & crowd D: PHIL AND FRIENDS (GRATEFUL DEAD UNPLUGGED) September 9 1994 (1 DISC) Jerry Garcia, Phil Lesh, Bob Weir, Vince Welnick. First show billed as ‘Phil and Friends’. Berkeley Community Theater, Berkeley, CA. A Benefit for Berkeley Music Program Source: SBD > DAT(s) > CDR via Michael Zelner 01. Tuning & Bob Weir intro 02. Walking Blues 03. Lazy River Road 04. K.C. Moan 05. Dupree's Diamond Blues 06. Childhood's End 07. When I Paint My Masterpiece 08. Attics Of My Life 09. Cassidy > 10. Bird Song > 11. Throwing Stones ACOUSTIC ODDMENTS (E and F fit on one disc or could be appended to various other discs, see timings) E: JERRY GARCIA, BOB WEIR & DUANE ALLMAN. November 20 1970 (33m 53s) WBCN Studios, Boston. Acoustic live FM broadcast remastered One of the collectors: Very poor sound quality but stick with it as it gets good enough to enjoy. 1. advertisement 2. El Paso 3. banter 4. Big River 5. I Know You Rider 6. banter 7. Jam 8. banter 9. Dark Hollow 10.banter 11.Angie 12.Let Me In. F: JERRY GARCA AND BOB WEIR March 2, 1983 (14m 10s) San Francisco Civic Auditorium, SF, CA. Bay Area Music Awards (Bammies) 01. Introduction 02. Wake Up Little Susie> 03. Deep Elem Blues 04. Mexicali Blues 05. Oh Boy!
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Submitted by cosmicbadger on Tue, 01/29/2008 - 15:04

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1 DATA DVD SHN and FLAC unpacks to 6 or 7 CDs A: GRATEFUL DEAD Acoustic Show November 17 1978 (46m 10s 1 DISC. ) Rambler Room, Loyola University, Chicago B: GRATEFUL DEAD October 16.1981 (2 DISCS, 1 Acoustic, 1 Electric) Melk Weg, Amsterdam, Netherlands C: JERRY GARCIA AND JOHN KAHN October 16, 1985 (2 DISCS) The Catalyst, Santa Cruz, CA D: PHIL AND FRIENDS (GRATEFUL DEAD UNPLUGGED) September 9 1994 (1 DISC) Jerry Garcia, Phil Lesh, Bob Weir, Vince Welnick. First show billed as ‘Phil and Friends’. Berkeley Community Theater, Berkeley, CA E: JERRY GARCIA, BOB WEIR & DUANE ALLMAN. November 20 1970 (33m 53s) WBCN Studios, Boston. Acoustic live FM broadcast remastered F: JERRY GARCA AND BOB WEIR March 2, 1983 (14m 10s) San Francisco Civic Auditorium, SF, CA. Bay Area Music Awards (Bammies) Sign up here 1. 2. 3. 4.
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Submitted by Greg Macfarlane on Tue, 01/29/2008 - 15:43

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I'll go for "everything for someone", that'll be me, perhaps :-)Look forward to pass on "something for everyone" Thanks, I'll PM addy. 1. Greg Macfarlane 2. 3. 4.
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Submitted by Greg Macfarlane on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 09:30

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USTO EUROVINE E - APRIL/MAY 1977 + 04/16/78 and 02/22/742 DVDs SHN/FLAC DETAILS P8 or 9 Is this still on the go? Particularly interested in 'Richards Pick's' - a disc of some of Richard’s favourite shows. (Thanks Richard from Texas for sending a sizeable package, of which this is part, across the pond) 1 sunshine-Daydream 2 TigerLilly 3 Greg Macfarlane 4
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Submitted by andré on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 11:43

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Dear Mr. Macfarlane, On page 20 of this topic (in the third of my five comments) I signed in on Eurovine E. But because of the sheer mass of comments of mine you might have overlooked it. And I don't mind, if you wil get them first. So the list for this vine is as posted in my next one. andré What about TigerLilly ? I hope she is alright, have sent her a PM three days ago and no reply yet.
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Submitted by Greg Macfarlane on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 04:22

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El burro se pierde en las colinas entre Las Alpujarras y Sevilla.Él debe pensar Él Lleva la ‘Road Trips’ CD. Imagino que la vid está cerrado. I think the above might say 'the donkey is lost so I imagine the vine is now closed'. Greg.
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Submitted by Sunshine-daydr… on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 07:42

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it might not be i think i might not have sent it, because |Rene was having problems. the dates seem familiar. I put all i had from that vine in a package to Andre Let's see what arrives in Germany Bob Ps your Spanish is better than mine - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://spanishsunshinedaydream.blogspot.com/ http://www.facebook.com/photos.php?id=633338979 Spanish Jam
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Submitted by Greg Macfarlane on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 08:48

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Die verlorenen Vine Vielleicht wird es in Deutschland mit André PS It's not my Spanish/ German. That came from googling. Too much time on my hands today. Greg
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Submitted by richard on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 06:05

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I can reseed this vine if needed. Not a problem, just let me know.I believe it included these shows: May 1977 : (May 5,7,8,9 1977 (1 DVD)) Richards Picks. (2-22-74; 4-23-77;5-25-77;4-16-78 (1 DVD)) Peace, Richard
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Submitted by andré on Thu, 02/07/2008 - 11:50

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Great schtuff, dood compilation ! For details please see page 21, Greg's post from January 27, 2008 - 6:40am In case you're interested, sign in and send me a PM with your mailing address. 1. andré 2. 3. 4. 5.
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Submitted by andré on Thu, 02/07/2008 - 11:53

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see what happens, when I do not preview my comment. dood - good andré
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Submitted by andré on Fri, 02/08/2008 - 06:09

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I have already downloaded the show. (btw: nice typo. that third "t", right in the middle, gives perfect balance :+) andré
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Submitted by andré on Sat, 02/09/2008 - 05:19

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has arrived todayand is ready to lift off. For details see page 22. Thanks again, Greg. andré 1. Greg Macfarlane 2. obviously andré 3. 4. 5.
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Submitted by andré on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 09:42

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Eurovines A, C, D and E arrived today. Thanks a lot, Bob !!! And well, the DVDs are ready to leave. Content is as follows : Eurovine A 1 DVD Grateful Dead + New Riders Of The Purple Sage gd-nrps.1970-11-08 gd1970-05-15 Eurovine C – Winterland 1973 1 DVD gd73-11-09 gd73-11-10 gd73-11-11 gd73-12-08 Eurovine D – Winterland 1974 2 DVDs gd74-10-16 gd74-10-17 gd74-10-18 gd74-10-18 gd74-10-19 gd74-10-20 Eurovine E 1 DVD gd1977-05-05 gd1977-05-07 gd1977-05-08 gd1977-05-09 This one is supposed to go out to Greg, but I don't have his mailing address. Can someone please send it to me via PM. ( He seems to be away from his pc, has not replied to two emails I sent, regarding other things, several days ago. ) Thanks, andré
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Submitted by andré on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 09:51

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He is the one, Cosmicbadger sent Eurvine #1 to, on Dec. 21st, 2007. After I signed in, I sent a PM with my mailing address to Amsterhammer on Jan. 28th. And because I have neither gotten a reply nor the DVD, I am wondering. who knows ... something ? andré
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Submitted by andré on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 14:36

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He was out in the Scottish Highlands. Eurovine E will leave my happy home tomorrow. After those 300 slim cases have been delivered, I definitely need to get back my kitchen table :+))) andré
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Submitted by andré on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 15:14

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Here’s a newbie’s suggestion regarding this topic/forum. As a consequence of my vining experiences so far. Most of all because of my endless scrolling and clicking to find „things“ (but this seems to be not only my problem). The idea behind my proposal is to make things more easy, less time consuming and non confusing for everybody. So I not only invite you to read, but then and first of all to speak your mind, discuss, make suggestions to modify/improve my proposal. Not only, because you all are into his, way longer than I am. But because more dead heads are better than one. And in case you want to share a few jokes about Germans+Organizing, after you have read this post, please feel free to do so. I like good jokes. And working prejudices, too. - - - - - What about two new topics ? 1. The Eurovines – About Vining & The Vines In The Old World This should start with basic information about vining. For example with a copy of Oroboros modified copy of Robert Hunter’s vining instructions. Maybe a few more things, also. Followed by the posts with the vines themselves. Name, content and the usual list to copy and sign in. 2. The Eurovines – Talk & Stuff which is for everything else. Including proposals for and talk about new vines. - - - - - In case you think this is a good idea, please step up and make suggestions to make this „next version“ as simple and clear as possible. For both newbies and people with another native tongue than (US) English. So we can come up with something real clear, simple, easy to handle and then introduce it to izzie, the mod in charge, and get into something else than „beta“ (no insult intended). And I Bid You Good Night → Have A Nice Day (sunshine & daydream) encore: ............. (your very choice) andré
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Submitted by andré on Tue, 02/12/2008 - 01:31

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wearing a paper bag with "Derek & Dominos" written on it, is also here and ready to go. Eurovine F 1 DVD Grateful Dead gd74-02-22 gd77-05-25 gd1977-04-23 gd1978-04-16 andré
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Submitted by Amsterhammer on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 17:31

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Couldn't access the site for months. I'm in touch with Andre and Eurovine 1 is alive, well, and on its way to him!
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Submitted by marye on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 18:01

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The Hunter who hangs out in these parts and launched the vining topic is not the same person as Robert Hunter. Excellent people, both of them, but not the same person. And now back to vining...
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Submitted by Greg Macfarlane on Fri, 02/15/2008 - 08:31

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1 DVD - Grateful Dead gd74-02-22 gd77-05-25 gd1977-04-23 gd1978-04-16 Aha... André, this is the one I've been after. It had appeared in an earlier post as Eurovine E (disc 2) it's the one referred to as "Richard's Picks". 1. Greg Macfarlane 2. 3.
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Submitted by andré on Fri, 02/15/2008 - 10:34

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Greg, I will send this F I have to you tomorrow. andré
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Submitted by andré on Fri, 02/15/2008 - 10:45

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Mary, thanks for clearing up the Hunters. And I like the new design of the comments. Will go surfing now and see what else has changed. Also good that the site seems to have recovered from being way beta for quite a few days (knocking on wood several times). And to all the viners here : What about my idea (see previous page) to make things a bit easier ? andré
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Submitted by Greg Macfarlane on Fri, 02/15/2008 - 10:58

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Thanks André, I look forward to F. "E" arrived today and is now ready to move on :-) Thanks again, I'll offer up something new soon, probably the Stella Blue project. Eurovine E is 1 DVD contains the following: gd1977-05-05 gd1977-05-07 gd1977-05-08 gd1977-05-09 "E" it is ready to go. Sign up below:
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Submitted by cosmicbadger on Sun, 02/17/2008 - 02:10

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A mule train will depart from France on Monday with the following Dead.Net Vines on their way to Andre >EUROVINE#2 (reseed): 4 shows from Jan 78 >EUROVINE#3: 4 shows from Sept 73 >EUROVINE#4: 8 shows from 68 >EUROVINE#5: 4 shows from 89 >EUROVINE#6. 12/29/69; 12/30/69;12/06/71;12/31/83 >USTO EUROVINE: Summer 82 >AUTUMN72VINE PART 1:Rearranged on 4 Discs as follows Disc 1: Sept 3,9,10,16 Disc 2: Sept 17,19,24 Disc 3 Sept 26, 28, 30 (Filler 1978/04/11) Disc 4 Sept 15(aud), 15 (partial SBD), 23. Filler Aug 24 and 27 1972 (plus 1970 Vine requested from Eurotraders and to be reoffered thru the ET site) I am now no longer custodian of any vines! good luck Andre!
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Submitted by andré on Sun, 02/17/2008 - 08:26

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Thanks to Cosmicbadger and everybody involved ! "Busy" ain't the problem, Bob, as I am unemployed and I always enjoy being busy with good things. But well, that's another 100+ blanks. And both, my dictionary and my wallet, tell me, that I will be "fasting" soon. Except one of them poor burros will fall dead when arriving ... I do like Salami. Anyway thanks to karma, I will get what I deserve. And probably mix up the whip cracking with jingle bells gladly ;+)) andré