Grateful Dead

Thanks, tphokie1, for: "I also believe that whether or not we believe in God is not important to God. The important thing is that we are growing as human beings and being kind to each other along the way. I do know that I have experienced what I call God numerous times at Dead shows and while listening to their recorded music." As a life-long student of comparative religion (thank you, Joseph Campbell), I believe that all religions' source texts say the same thing if (and it's a big if) you read them metaphorically, rather than literally. I want to share a couple of quotes from Reynold Nicholson's book, The Mystics of Islam. "Pythagoras and Plato are responsible for another theory, to which the Sufi poets frequently allude, that music awakens in the soul a memory of celestial harmonies heard in a state of pre-existance, before the soul was separated from God. Thus Jalaluddin Rumi: The song of the spheres in their revolutions Is what men sing with lute and voice. As we are all members of Adam, We have heard these melodies in paradise. Though earth and water have cast their veil upon us, We retain faint reminiscences of these heavenly songs; But while we are thus shrouded by gross earthly veils, How can the tones of the dancing spheres reach us?" My answer? Listen to the Dead! They are, after all, Jehovah's Favorite Choir. From the same book, attributed to Dhu 'l-Nun the Egyptian, "Music is a divine influence which stirs the heart to seek God: those who listen to it spiritually attain unto God..." and "When the heart throbs and rapture grows intense, and the agitation of ecstacy is manifested and conventional forms are gone, this is not dancing nor bodily indulgence, but a dissolution of the soul."

Yes the paragraph was from Carlin. I didn't use quotes because, as I stated, I was paraphrasing. If I had been quoting, I'd have used quotes. I put a very specific line before that paragraph that read (and this is now the 3rd time I'm putting this up here) : I will leave you with a bit of humor. George Carlin on religion (paraphrasing, as I don't remember word for word, but this is pretty close...and I do not say this to offend anyone - just for a touch of humor - if we cannot laugh at ourselves, what's the point?!) : SO, not to sound like a dick - but it basically says "here's a bunch of words from George Carlin. They're not meant to offend anyone. Hope you can laugh at it, as I have....because I laugh at jokes, even when aimed at me, because if you can't laugh at yourself, you have a problem. THEN the quote continues (and I won't re-post what apparently annoyed people) to say that the story religion asks you to believe is a tad far-fetched. Now, someone who is religious AND has a sense of humor would even find humor in that and may reply, "Yes it does sound like a crazy story, but I find the faith my personal test of strength." Someone who is not religious but not out to offend anyone might say, "Yeah! That's what I'm talkin' about! But I certainly respect others for believing what they will," as I said. Very plainly. I will try not to speak so lofty next time. Personally, I don't think I did - you all sound like really intelligent people here. I just think it's easy to skim and soak up only the juicy stuff, rather than take everything in context. I'll shut up now. I think I'm pissing people off. ~ Pappy www.theCAUSEjams.com "Once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - Robert Hunter

pappy, if i mis-understood something, I will apologize. did Carlin say 'religion is a bullshit story' or words to that effect? was that last paragraph Carlin's words, not yours?? I thought the Carlin line ended with 'if we can not laugh at ourselves, what's the point' maybe I got confused, if it is YOU who is the car salesman manager, and not Carlin. then I made a mistake, and sorry about that. please use "quotes" in the future so we might know who is talking. if the religion is bullshit comment was yours, and if that was a joke, I don't get the joke. it was that comment alone that I took issue with, like I said in my previous post. anyways, and not to beat a dead horse, when you have a few hours to kill, go back to read through this whole thread, then you will understand better the context that I'm coming from. naturally, many folks who read and post in THIS area, are sensitive to religion bashing (not saying that is what you did if that was what Carlin said) hence, I chided you a bit. no feelings hurt on my side, and if I fucked up, sorry about that. peace. and, lilly, I am patiently waiting for the next 7,999,997 questions, and no it ain't a boat load. it is a shit load. to avoid further mis-understanding, I ain't saying your question is a load of shit, but just that it is a shit load of questions. yuk yuk yuk ( -;

i REALLY LIKE THE OPENESS OF THE WHARFRATS A/A HAS BEEN TO BIBLE THUMPING LATELY NOT DIGGING ON IT AT ALL :{

but don't you think that 7,999,998 is a boatload of questions? Even for me to come up with? (7,999,997) ********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens

Gypsy & CC - I guess you 2 didn't really read my post. 'Cause right before I quoted George Carlin (who said "religion is the greatest bs story of all-time") I specifically said THESE words: I will leave you with a bit of humor. George Carlin on religion (paraphrasing, as I don't remember word for word, but this is pretty close...and I do not say this to offend anyone - just for a touch of humor - if we cannot laugh at ourselves, what's the point?!) : So PLEASE don't think I'm putting ANYONE down for beliving what they believe. I do not. I'm quite fine with anyone's beliefs, so long as they are not hurting anyone. I'm not asking for an apology, but you both completely misunderstood what I was saying. Have a nice day! :) ~ Pappy www.theCAUSEjams.coom "Once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - Robert Hunter

"would you agree that saying "religion is the greatest bullshit story" is a force of negative energy?" Except it's positive energy for some, I would hope. Only because there's a whole lots of people who do believe in their religion. & it should be everyone's right to believe in whatever they want to. I just didn' t like the "forced" on you situations. I have relatives that are Catholics, Jewish, Protestants & Atheists-the whole "mishbuka" (meaning in Yiddish-mixed batch or mixed family, if I've got that one right) & to think, today on walking Charlie, the dog, a guy in the park asked me if I had religious beliefs....didn't have time to get into it.... So, what am I, I have often asked myself? Just plain ole American Gypsy Cowgirl.......xoxox Peace & Love-NOW there's a religion I believe in! ( & praying naked)

pappy, would you agree that saying "religion is the greatest bullshit story" is a force of negative energy? keep in mind, some folks here take great comfort in their religoius beliefs, (organized or dis-organized) and using such harsh language about it is kind of a bummer to read. up until you said that, I wasn't bummed out by what you said, but that bit is a tad too harsh and hurtful, and certainly negative, in my humble opinion. believe it if you need it, and why knock it, even if you've tried it? if you like, please go back and read through this entire thread, we have had some "issues" with folks who kind of go over the top in general terms of acceptable civility in expressing what they believe or not believe. marye, in her mod mode, tought me a new vocabulary word a while back, it was 'polemic' share and care. sharing and caring. caring and sharing. care and share. keeping this scene "safe and warm" for everyone is a goal in my book, and a source of positive energy if you will. love and peace.

Just read Blair Jackson's biography of JG and it rekindled my fire for the music and lyrics of the group. I enjoyed their music 30 years ago, went to only one concert(12/31/79), due to my sweet girlfriend's LOVE of the Dead (SF born and raised) and have been re-enjoying their music with my 17 y.o. son. I enjoyed finding streams of old Celtic thought in the lyrics of Hunter and Garcia. I don't know if it was intended or just sprang from pool of consciousness that is still with us. As the son of a minister, I learned that many songs sung in church came from folk music of the time, often 200 years ago, and thus intend to bring their music to a new audience. Walk your path, enjoy your relations, share love with others.

I may as well tell y'all about my beliefs... Soooo....I am an atheist. In that regard, I do not believe in god, per se. I don't believe in a one, supreme being that looks over us, etc...I believe religion is man-made and was absolutely necessary in the times in which it was created, in order to avoid mass hysteria (which probably went on long before there was ever recorded religion). I won't get into the "why"s as to why I don't believe...it's just the conclusion I've come to after many years. Read "The God Delusion" if you want to understand my point of view on that any further. What I DO believe in is ENERGY. I believe we are all made up of energy that is kinetic. Once in motion, it never ceases. SO, once we pass, our energy (call it a soul or spirit, if you want to) is still moving about the earth. I believe that every, single person we each come in contact with (no matter how small or large the amount of contact - from 'just passing by' to serious relationships), we pass along that respective amount of energy to that person. They carry it with them forever and pass it on to others, and so on, and so on. SO, by my belief, the more positive energy one puts out to the world, the more positive things will happen in the world. By contrast, the same would apply with negative energy. When positive or negative energy is placed in front of you, whether in the form of a TV broadcast, email, postcard, rainbow, etc...(you can apply to ANYTHING - it's all in how it's perceived), that positive or negative energy is absorbed by each of us and we all carry it around wherever we go - and pass it along, and so on, and so on.... Thus, I do not believe in a heaven or hell, but I believe that once we pass, our energy - both positive and negative - stays out there for everyone we've been in contact with. This energy is carried on in the memories of others, as well as anything we've ever influenced in our lives (hence the little to a lot of contact with others). I was raised Jewish. The Old Testament really never did it for me and the New Testament took it to a whole different level of bs for me (no offense to others, I say "for me" on purpose there). I believe many of the 'main characters' in the bible truly existed and some were truly wonderful people. But there are just waaaaay too many juxtapositions in there that make it all nonsensical in the end (for me). By the way, I'm also a STUDENT of the Bible. I had to study it in my formative years (grades 6, 7 & 8) and have read it in its entirety. I've also read most of it in my early 20s. Anyway, that's it - in a nutshell. I certainly don't begrudge ANYONE of their beliefs. To me, it's all about the positive energy!!! If you have any questions, feel free to drop me a PM. I will leave you with a bit of humor. George Carlin on religion (paraphrasing, as I don't remember word for word, but this is pretty close...and I do not say this to offend anyone - just for a touch of humor - if we cannot laugh at ourselves, what's the point?!) : There's a lot of bullshit in this world. Car Salesmen (I'm actually a car sales manager, hehe!), Lawyers...they're all full of bullshit. Wantin' to sell you bullshit. But the greatest bullshit story of all time has to be religion. Here's what they want you to believe: There's this invisible man who lives in the sky and watches everything you do. If you do not obey his laws which he has set forth, you will spend eternity in fire, brimstone, pain & anguish. But he loves you. And he needs your money. Apparently the omnipotent one...not so good with cash. Peace, ~ Pappy www.theCAUSEjams.com "Once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - Robert Hunter