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    marye
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    In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.

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  • tphokie1
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    Self love is not self centeredness
    Brother Johnman, I relate to your post. I struggle with the same issues. I think the self love that Jesus implies in his words is the exact opposite of self centeredness. When I love myself the most is when I feel most connected with the other, so that the two are one as referenced in Cosmicbadger's post. As far as feeling good when we do something for others I think that it may often simply be a reinforcement that that is what we should be doing. As Joseph Campbell said "follow your bliss". There is a danger that we may become overly proud of all the "wonderful" things we do for others, but we just need to know ourselves well enough not to let this take control of us. I've obviously never met you in person, but from reading your posts you seem to me to be a genuinely loving person who is not operating on false pride. In my own experience I've often asked the question if taking care of myself is being self centered. I've not found an easy answer to that one. I feel we have a responsibilty to not give in to selffishness, but as I said in my earlier post I think we need to nurture ourselves so that we can be of service to others, as Jesus did. The church may tend to encourage a martyr complex in many of us. I don't think Jesus intended for most of us to be martyrs! I just try to prayerfully sort out the negative messages I've been given regarding my own worthlessness from the inner voice that is urging me on to be of service to others. I gather from your previous post that you are already practicing this form of self examination. Regarding spreading the good news, I have come to the conclusion that if we endeavor to follow the example of Jesus' life we will have more than enough to keep us busy and being truly committed to this may be the best way to tell others. Jesus did most of his preaching to those in power who were abusing their office. He seemed to communicate with everyone else simply by listening to and loving them. Blessings to you my friend.
  • TigerLilly
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    suicide question-found this article rather interesting
    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/suicide/********************************** It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
  • johnman
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    thanx, badger....
    now my head REALLY hurts....
  • cosmicbadger
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    self love
    "At root, there is simply no way of separating self from other, self-love from other-love. All knowledge of self is knowledge of other, and all knowledge of other knowledge of self. I begin to see that self and other, the familiar and the strange, the internal and the external, the predictable and the unpredictable imply each other. One is seek and the other is hide, and the more I become aware of their implying each other, the more I feel them to be one with each other. I become curiously affectionate and intimate with all that seemed alien. In the features of everything foreign, threatening, terrifying, incomprehensible, and remote I begin to recognize myself. Yet this is a "myself" which I seem to be remembering from long, long ago—not at all my empirical ego of yesterday, not my specious personality" Alan Watts The Joyous Cosmology: adventures int he chemistry of consciousness Read the whole thing on www.erowid.org/library/books_online/joyous_cosmology.pdf
  • johnman
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    wow......
    while i agree with what you say about loving yourself, i have always had a problem doing that. i always end up feeling selfish and self centered. i do know i feel happiest when I've made someone else happy, but do i do it to make someone else happy or to please myself? i also tend to have a problem spreading the words of Christ cuz it turns so many people off...and i don't wish to offend anyone.....gotta keep trying tho...as i have said here before...it's how the word is spread that torques most people. i pray long and often (sometimes people hear me and seeing my longhair, tattoos and beard makes them go .."whoa")
  • tphokie1
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    Loving your neighbor as yourself
    The quote you refer to is part of what is known by some as the summary of the law. The full quote from Jesus is "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. The second is like unto it. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets". Many, including myself, feel that this is the essence of the teachings of Jesus. We often forget that Jesus was an observant Jew who was most likely trying to reform Judaism, not start a new religion. He appeared to be combating the legalism that was prevelant in much of Judaism at the time. The commandment to "love your neighbor as yourself" would seem to imply that first you must love yourself. I have struggled with depression at times in my own life. My father, who was an ordained minister, committed suicide. I can tell you that when you are severly depressed you do not love yourself. Unless you get the proper help to deal with your depression you will have no energy to love others. It seems clear to me that this commandment is not telling us to treat others as ourselves when we do not love ourselves. Sadly many churches do not convey the idea that we should love ourselves when they spend all their time telling us what horrible sinners we are. This is a legitimate criticism of the church by many. I believe that Jesus would be just as critical of this brand of Christianity as he was of the Pharisees of his own time. Jesus clearly took time to nurture himself, often withdrawing from the disciples to recharge mentally, spiritually and physically. He seemed to feel that he had to love himself in order to be of service to others. My experience of the Grateful Dead was instrumental in helping me to learn how to love myself. Check out the lyrics to "Eyes of the World". Peace to all and happy Mothers Day to all you moms. You are so important in helping your children realize that they are "the eyes of the world".
  • noonie
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    for the sake of discusion
    i hear alot of christians say to love thy neighbor as thy self....but what if you suffer from depression and are suicidal does that mean you should kill your neighbor also.?..this question has been in my head for a loooong time.
  • tphokie1
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    TigerLilly
    Thanks for the kind and encouraging words. Your posts along with all the others in this forum have certainly helped me on my journey. Hopefully we will all continue to support and challenge each other along the way. "If I knew the way I would take you home".Peace
  • TigerLilly
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    tphokie1
    Please continue to discuss! Excellent post! If we could all write as clearly and thoughtfully as you did-oh MY!********************************** It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
  • tphokie1
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    Science and Religion
    It seems to me that the proper goal of both science and religion should be truth, as others in this forum have suggested. I see religion and science as ultimately seeking the same thing, but coming from different perspectives. For a scientist, the answer "God did it" is insufficient because the aim of science is to find out what processes are involved. How did it happen? Or, for the religious scientist (and there are actually many), how did God do it? As a person of faith, science can produce no evidence that could make me not believe that God exists. However, scientific fact has indeed challenged my particular preconceptions about God and therefore has expanded my understanding of God (as has being exposed to the Grateful Dead experience). At this point in time I believe that God is the ultimate creator of the universe. The Big Bang theory says that a ball of hydrogen exploded to start the universe. The hydrogen had to come from somewhere. Science will seek to explain this, as it should. The answer will only expand my understanding of truth, which, according to Gandhi, is God. When the Grateful Dead started a concert, they had some basic ideas of what was going to happen, but could not predict what the final result would be. I'm open to the possibility that God may create in the same way. Those of you with different ideas, please continue the discussion. If we all continue the discussion with an open mind and respect for each other we can only increase our understanding of truth.
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In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.
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I just think that everyone should respect and accept everyone else's opinion and just be kind and gentle with eachother and listen to the Grateful Dead.
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lemme know if you want the new topic started and what you want it called if so...
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could my suggestions be appropriate?....just a little joshing, that's all!!!
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yer scarin' me...
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I'll second Mr. Pid's proposal: "General philosophy...for those who have no use for Religion and don't mind saying so...all points of view are fair game, discussion encouraged, but flaming, hate speech and ad hominem attacks, no." My suggestion for a name is Imagine There's No Heaven.
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means that we accept the concept that there IS one, thus STILL based in Christianity, so personally I vote no to that one for a non-religious philosophy thread. How about: Deep Philosophical Thoughts
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'Life, the Universe and Everything'
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Mark 7:15 "There is nothing that enters a man from outside that can defile him, but the things that come out of him, those are the things that defile him" For example if a guy drinks whiskey and gets sleepy, and another drinks milk and gets mean, which one is sinning?
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for Badger's title! Works for me!
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yeah, i'll go with that too. first post should be why he feels the need to upset people so.........ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!
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I agree because everybody has the right to have any opinion about anything so long as it is kynde and nice.
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badger's gonna go all honeybadger on you one day! :D
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ha ha!!does that mean he "just doesn't give a shit...Cosmic Badger's crazy...he's a bad ass...he just doesn't give a shit"!!!!!!! or does it mean he's going to smother me in sticky nectar and use that long moist tongue of his......
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I think we should be kind and thoughtful and not smother the space set aside for our believing brethren and sistren.
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bland or sulking?!!!!
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Is fine by me. Though we could then just cut to the chase and post "42" and end the discussion right there. I have been staying away from commenting on this thread, as I'm concerned about hijacking it away from its "mission statement" and its intended audience...though it seems the topic seems a bit underutilized lately. I had started working on what was intended as a letter to the editor of my local paper on the subject of government-sponsored prayer, a very hot hot-button issue on the local level these days in my neck of the Bible belt. But the letter turned into a much-too-long essay that I'm guessing wouldn't be accepted as a "guest column." Nearly posted on Facebook, and like the jonaPancake guy here, had second thoughts after I read it over. Still pondering it... Regardless, thanks for all the fish!
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don't you mean ONE fish, singular, gratefaldean? there's enough for 5000 there, surely?........!!!get a loaf of bread off a boy while you're at it! by the way, a spanking new series on the BBC of Douglas Adams' Dirk Gently detective is starting soon. Stephen Mangan is a great actor (all too sadly under-written for since the glorious and must-see Green Wing). and by the way, here would be the perfect place for that letter!! come come deano old bean, reveal all! sounds mighty intriguing to these ears. the words "government sponsored prayer" should NEVER be used in that formation and order, and, if they ever are, a shudder should rattle the spine like an ill-advised stage dive at Black Flag concert. or a Suicidal Tendencies soirée. you're quite right that this topic is "underutilized"; no other fucker seems to post much here, so hijack like a Somali pirate, i say.
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Further thread hijacking-but that TOTALLY excites me! Loved Dirk Gently Holistic Detective sooooooooo much! Thanks for that important info, and will be watching for it
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But then again, maybe we did. Guilty as charged. As for a title, I actually liked "A closer look reveals the human race" because it keeps the Dead lyric topic naming thing going, but it is a bit homo sapiens-centric so I'm good with Brother Badger's suggestion as well. A safe place for us to discuss perspectives on life that aren't deity dependent. Thanks for the props to Mike Edwards as well. At first blush, I liked your title suggestion as well, but there can be no denying that TigerLilly's observation and concerns have merit. As for apologies for past acts of bad faith jonapi, I'm not quite sure I see what the point is. No matter what Mr. Orwell might have suspected, you can't change the past, you can only change the future. I would only hope that those guilty would henceforth moderate their behavior and public posture to at least acknowledge that they and their adherents represent merely one of myriad possible perspectives and proceed accordingly. How is it that they put that thought? Oh yeah. Go, and sin no more.
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> Imagining there's no heaven means that we accept the concept that there IS one Not necessarily, it's easy to imagine a scenario in which heaven was imagined in the first place, but I can see how some people might read the line that way, TigerLilly. I'm not hung up on the name though; I'm a writer, which means I usually get things wrong before I get them right. Plus, it's hard not to like a Douglas Adams line, and especially an inclusive one like Life, the Universe and Everything.
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i'm beginning to doubt my own british humour now! (or else i'm tired, having just learnt of a sad death in the extended family, and have become a victim of my own dry approach to comedy!).i'm not sure what you meant by "past acts of bad faith..." etc., Mr. Pid; were you talking about my comments to CB about "upsetting people"? if so, i was pulling his english leg a little and joking with him!! or am i missing something else? that 5000 thing was because gratefaldean signed off with "thanks for all the fish" so i took a cheap shot and made fun of the feeding of the masses with one fish and a loaf of bread. all of my recent posts have been tongue in cheek and an excuse to be a tad cheeky; a pesky little scamp, nothing more. please don't take anything i say too seriously. i'm usually guilty of being too obtuse; i'm just being a wee prick that's all!! and definitely (or he better be!!), the badger is reveling in maintaining a "bland" stance as a facetious nod to my poor grammar (or grandad!!) in a post i made to his earlier reply!! i got confused and made some schoolboy punctuation-al errors that he's intent on highlighting in a most uncharitable fashion ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!! good on 'im!!! that's what i'd do too ha ha!!!
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where the huskies go and don't you eat that yellowcake. The apology reference was (surprisingly on topic!) regarding your apparent and Mr. Hitchen's clear request that the Roman Catholic Church should set about apologizing everywhere to everyone about everything that they'd gotten wrong all these centuries. Really, what exactly is the point of that? Sorry, but that's baggage that they can't have some airline conveniently lose in transit in some far-flung corner of the world. It seems to me that it would be in their best interests to just stop collecting more items from that particular line of cheap Vuitton luggage. Perhaps I'm also guilty of being somewhat obtuse in my references as well, so continuing with that notion, since you raised the spectre of self-flagellation, I like the approach taken by the monks in The Grail. "Blow to the head or boot in the groin? I'll take the blow to the head, please."
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Is about 1100 words at this point. And most of it is just a schoolboy memory of mine. It may see the light of day, but I need to let it ferment a bit, I think, let it stew while I forget about it and then come back to it with fresh eyes. And read what says -- right now I'm reading what I THINK that I wrote, which I often find is not always the same as what I really did write. And the fish line cracked me up...I was still hanging in Douglas Adams-land, and you, Nakanopi, were actually on-topic.
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I was going to make a suggestion that everyone should have a big group hug and a nice cup of tea, but then I decided not to as it might be taken wrongly as a case of the bland leading the partially slighted. By the way, both Douglas Adams and Christopher Hitchens have published instructions for making a perfect cup of tea.
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you really are sulking aren't you, CB?!!!!! Lama-badgo?...... and love the fact that Mary started a new topic and no one has posted there yet for 2 days!! good work everyone!!
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yes, it was a beautiful blue sky day; the hint of hay in the air across the fields, sweet in the nose. spring entering the soul and radiating warmth. basking more appropriate than questioning, no? we must all think alike after all.....
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investigation into the human condition.connection to suffering. introspection and inward peace. science may learn, interact, join and explore.
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moving, thought provoking film featuring the fantastic Anthony Scher, Eddie Marsan and others. in Auschitz, jewish prisoners put God on trial in absentia for abandoning the Jewish people. the question is if God has broken his covenant with the Jeweish people by allowing the Nazis to commit genocide.
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...the so-called "Deadheads for Obama" have zero criticism of their hero for sending drones to Pakistan to kill "brown skin people" when they were so anxious to attack W, and me for supporting him on the old DNC MB, for his war against Islamofascists... J/K, we all know the answer to that question now don't we?
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let's not bother then, eh?!!!!
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see what I said to Pid in the "what would be the answer" thread. :)
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Please confine your trolling to the relevant topics. This is not one of them. Current events might be. Any further such posts here will be deleted.
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Testing, testing, this is just a test. The last post made on this forum on July 4, 2007?Or, am I being foolish on April Fool's? Post #1 on April 1st...Hmm.
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Just wanted to say thank you. I grew a lot from being here. I'm truly sorry for the bad things I've said in the past, but I hope I made people smle too. You sure made me laugh, thank you. So may God bless Bobby, Phil, Mickey, and Bill and all of you with love and peace. - trailbird brian
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I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I try very hard not to judge others and respect all persons beliefs. That's all, thank you very much Marye and deadnet for the opportunity to express that belief. ...when we make it to the Promised Laaanddd...
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Although Buddhist cultures all over the world celebrate the historical Buddha's milestones in different ways, it is the Tibetans who roll his birth, death and enlightenment into four weeks of celebration in a multifaceted event. On this day the merit from particularly moral acts supposedly increases by a factor of ten million. If you are a believer, as I am, then just tossing a beggar sitting on a city street corner a dollar bill could result in your future rebirth into a particularly wealthy family who would endow you with wealth worth more than $10 million dollars. But, of course, as with most religions, getting rich is not the point. Rather, remembering the historical figure who created massive amounts of good will and good, charitable acts is the real point. As is often said, accomplishing the good of others is providing provision for one's own future life. Shakyamuni Buddha was born over 2500 years ago in Lumbini, Nepal. He grew up a prince in a royal family who married and had a family. Becoming dissatisfied with every material thing and seeing sickness,old age and death convinced him to embark on a spiritual journey that eventually brought him to sit under the Bodhi Tree, unmoving, for seven years by the river Narayan in Bodh Gaya, India until he saw the morning star and became enlightened. He died not far away (relatively) in Kushinigar, India at the age of 82. His last words were: "All component things in the world are changeable. They are not lasting. Work hard to gain your own salvation." Unlike many other religious figures who proclaimed themselves Gods or Sons of God, Shakamuni Buddha simply said for those who were curious it would be best to test his theories and if they worked perhaps they could be put into practice.
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I'm just starting to poke around this forum, not sure how active anyone still is
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Through an unlikely series of events, my sister had a handful of Sunday night tickets to distribute on very short notice. She was pleased to discover that Deadheads really are everywhere. Not knowing how people would respond, she began asking various contacts about their possible interest in tickets, and was surprised at those who immediately replied, "Yes, I will meet you any place at any hour to receive tickets". No one here would be surprised that she would find this response, but she did not who in her range of acquaintances would be those folks. Only on a hunch did she contact her former downstairs neighbor, a person she thought she knew well after many years sharing a building. Or the fellow doing work on her house. Or the friend of our brother, who only found out that our brother was going to the show when did not show up to play guitar with him at church on Sunday morning. Some inquiries and quick calls by the guitar player, just hours before the show, ended up with him learning that, miracle of miracles, Yes, there was one more ticket available. This gets me to thinking that every town in America ought to have an event when Deadheads can come out and get acquainted. I expect that there will be many more Dead nights at pubs and such, but we surely need a way to find each other.
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I love the steal your face with the cross! I am a Catholic deadhead, which seems to stump everyone i know... everyone who isn't a deadhead, that is... i think most people who listen to the music realize that the notes played, pointed onward and outward... towards a bit of the transcendent. Anyways... it's good to see evidence that i'm not alone in loving God and loving the music of the dead:) Seeing the last show in Chicago a few weeks ago brought be back home. Peace and love to you all.