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    marye
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    In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.

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  • cosmicbadger
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    well
    I just think that everyone should respect and accept everyone else's opinion and just be kind and gentle with eachother and listen to the Grateful Dead.
  • Mike Edwards
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    Anyone else got an idea?
    Imagine There's No Heaven
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    saucer of milk for Mr. Badger...
    ha ha!! i just re-read my post!!no no, i didn't mean that, you daft old coot!! what i meant to say, in my typically mangled fashion, was that i agree with your comments regarding "accept that the alternative is that there is no alternative and no need for an alternative...." in other words, what you write is a good way of looking at things; i MYSELF am looking too hard for answers and that applying that approach is quite sensible and reasonable!!! i rather stupidly linked that together and it came out in a Tower Of Babble!! i told you i write as thoughts enter the brain!!!! i never thought chinese whispers translated to the written form!! ha ha!! my apologies, CB, i quite royally fucked my response, Sir! (although i was tempted to remove that line and then castigate you for making shit up about me ha ha!!! we should've started a surreal feud where i finished the argument with that immortal showstopper, "thats what Hitler would've said!"). don't you dare turn bland on me or i'll come round to your abode with some sand for the vaseline!
  • cosmicbadger
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    uh?
    '...but, as you wrote, maybe i'm too busy myself looking for answers ' I wrote nothing of the sort. I was merely answering your question and engaging in the debate as you invited. I was not criticising you or casting any nasturtiums (!) on how you live your life. Seems all I can do round here these days is unintenionally upset people I like. Seems I've lost my touch. Time to shut up and stick to the bland stuff.
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    "would you suck a 10 old banana?"
    thank you CB.i know i let my own confusion and disappointment spill over into incoherency. i try to type as feelings enter my mind which results in a jumble of fragments a lot of the time. i suppose it was one of the reasons why i thought better of it the first time i posted the videos; am i just contributing to criticism when i could've posted a more deeper, compassionate, emotional video? (unfortunately, some of the ones i'd like to have shared, i can't embed, including three wonderful documentaries: "We Were Here: The AIDS Years In San Francisco", "Baka: A Cry From The Rainforest" and "The Interrupters" about intervention in gang violence in amongst the youth of Chicago). maybe i'm frustrated sometimes that some who have such a sharp intelligence only use it for commentating instead of making a larger difference. but maybe that is THEIR reason for being here; to make others aware and point out wrongdoing. to get others to at least think and begin to question. i do believe that if the Church really spoke from the heart and laid themselves bare; if they apologised for some of these terrible crimes that have been perpetrated in their name, then a greater spiritual revolution and evolution would arrive. maybe this is pie in the sky. i suppose i should leave that behind too and just concentrate on looking forward, not backward. maybe it's just that sense of injustice that rankles so. i think that while i was heartened and appreciative when Fry & Hitchen said what they said, i was also slightly disappointed that they didn't engage in other ways of moving forward. but, as you wrote, maybe i'm too busy myself looking for answers instead of simply floating in this incredible pool of life as we know it and letting the current carry me wherever i'm supposed to go. i feel rather stupid now actually. but hey ho. i always regret starting these things, as i always feel i should've used my time more wisely. a rather unfortunate habit of riling against the world's ills, pissing in the wind and then explaining what i should've done instead. i get upset at the suffering some have to endure too easily i suppose. powerless in a way to help but feeling the hurt on their behalf so strongly. maybe there's an envy of others with a strong faith; to question so pointedly but offer no relief. hurt but feel helpless. maybe a self-imposed flagellation of some kind. but i do care, that's what i want to get across. fuck me, it's Therapy Thursday!! what a tremendous cock, eh?!! i need some light-hearted relief! comedy to the rescue and viewings of Michael Palin and Bruce Parry, i feel. my apologies everyone!! how embarrassing....
  • cosmicbadger
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    Hitchen post
    Hmm Actually I find the Hitchens' rant you posted not one of his best moments ...impressive and shocking in its way, but rather one dimensional too. Have you read his book 'God is not Great'; it is a much more balanced account, full of polemic (his dismantling of the mother Theresa myth is masterful), but also very witty, erudite and actually full of humanity too. You ask what alternative Hitchens offers. Well the trick is to accept that the alternative is that there is no alternative and no need for an alternative. We are what we are, here and now, we come from nothing and we go to nothing and if we all spent more effort making the most of that amazing situation we find ourselves in, the world would likely be a better place. Actually, for me at least, it is a form of letting go and liberation that perhaps a Buddhist would recognise (an irony that I am sure did not escape Mr Hitchens). In God Is Not Great he explains his vision 'Above all, we are in need of a renewed Enlightenment, which will base itself on the proposition that the proper study of mankind is man and woman [referencing Alexander Pope]. This Enlightenment will not need to depend, like its predecessors, on the heroic breakthroughs of a few gifted and exceptionally courageous people. It is within the compass of the average person. The study of literature and poetry, both for its own sake and for the eternal ethical questions with which it deals, can now easily depose the scrutiny of sacred texts that have been found to be corrupt and confected. The pursuit of unfettered scientific inquiry, and the availability of new findings to masses of people by electronic means, will revolutionize our concepts of research and development. Very importantly, the divorce between the sexual life and fear, and the sexual life and disease, and the sexual life and tyranny, can now at last be attempted, on the sole condition that we banish all religions from the discourse. And all this and more is, for the first time in our history, within the reach if not the grasp of everyone.'
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    no child's behind left
    a further musing, if i may...i'd be interested to hear from fellow Hitch admirers, their opinion on this trend of condemnation and negative association as opposed to offering alternatives and a dedication to them. there seems in my mind, an almost pathological obsession with nay-saying and critique; these issues must be addressed of course, but why relegate one's self to a sideline of commentary rather than pro-activity? i greatly admire Hitchens on many levels, and Stephen Fry's comments are also close to my heart. but, like Zappa was wont to do, it seems that a constant, almost obsessive buffeting of where others are going wrong; an intellectual wallowing in quicksand, that ultimately, offers forth no possible road map to a more agreeable state, is the preferred option. wouldn't time have been better spent positing a more agreeable course? this may well read like a mighty contradiction, and a frankly hypocritical idea from someone who has ranted and rained down scorn in the past; i hold up my hands. but, by passionately arguing for the removal of religious intrusion into the lives of the nonplussed, surely a debate equivalent to a literary roundabout is the only outcome. why not concentrate on something positive? why not dedicate one's life to a "better choice"? handsomely paid intellectual discussion, the equivalent of a Linus blanket; an enveloping warmth of fire-side safety-chat that is a lot easier to indulge in than a hoisting of the sleeves. the comfortable refuge of the "educated"? i'm not sure. i AM a fan. but i get tired of the apparent absolving of the commentator. a verbal jerk-off. maybe i commit the same "crime". maybe it's all healthy. maybe i'm still wrestling. anyone the patience to comment out there?
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    the devil's in the details
    i take my bows, TL!!! you're very kind!i do think the points raised in the speeches are incredibly pertinent; they are things that must be addressed, i feel, by anyone claiming to be a "Catholic". i believe that many people would be horrified if it was their boss or mother or father that behaved in a particular way and spoke loudly and with self-justification and took it upon themselves to claim they were speaking on your behalf; people wouldn't stand for it and rightly so. but it seems that the Church, as an organisation, is allowed to behave in this manner. how come? that isn't a self-righteous remark, it's what happens, isn't it? i do believe that any religion should have the same warnings and restrictions that hallucinogenic plants endure. and natural let us not forget, these are NATURAL plants; if everything on earth was placed here by God, then they were put here for a reason also. both are dangerous, both can be abused, both can lead to enlightenment and comfort and safety and compassion and love. but they are the same. a quick mention of Terence McKenna's wonderful "Food Of The God's" book is important here. me personally? i'm only interested in whether people are Kynd or not. that is only what concerns me. i don't lay the blame for systematic torture, abuse and death at the feet of every Christian folk. something as futile and pathetic as treating every German as a fully paid up member of the nazi party and complicit in the holocaust. utter nonsense i think you'd agree. i encourage as many world views and opinions and beliefs and faiths as possible. none of us know what the answers are. so it means we're the same. i hope both sides of the argument take note. and yes, Mr. Pid, a topic for philosophical discussion would be a good addition. possible suggestions for a title could be: Islam or Isn'tlam? Our Führer, who art in Heaven McDonalds or Burka King? "I can't believe it's not Buddha!" Jeezy-Chreezy Lemon-Squeezy Allah Rama Ding Dong Choirboys have a centre parting because... Sikh And Destroy Sokka Cack-eye Ate My Hamster "I'm just not that Hindu you" "The Pope, a Black and a Jew walk into a Bar..." Christ Christ Baby, doo doo doo doo-do-do-doo-doo "He's not the Messiah, he's a VERY NAUGHTY BOY!" or Philosophy. whatever gets us through this complicated and sometimes scary life, i say. peace to all.
  • TigerLilly
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    Well put, Jonapi
    huzza!
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    due to popular demand...
    well, far be it from me to be a tease...your wishes are my command. however, contrary to posts that've been misinterpreted before, this video (in my opinion) is not intended to denounce religion or claim there is no God. i do believe there is a God, but not necessarily in the popular form so worshipped today. there is no doubt that many working in various religions around the world are selfless, honest and do more for humankind that either i, or very possibly, you, the good people on the forums. i do feel that if the Catholic Church were to really listen to what Mr. Fry & Mr. Hitchens had to say, and offer the kind of apologies that we would be so quick to give, then the world would be a better place. this is in no way intended to poke fun or belittle people's faith. these videos deal with facts that desperately need addressing. i think any moral, right-minded person would agree. i'm not an atheist and never will be. i'm not an "anything".
    The Intelligence² Debate - Christopher Hitchens... by Xrunner17
    The Intelligence² Debate - Stephen Fry (Unedited) by Xrunner17 please everyone think clearly before ripping it apart. i can see no reason why science and spirituality aren't the very best of bedfellows. let us remember that by only focusing on "intelligence" , one can be just as guilty and blinkered as another party.
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In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.
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Excellent composition CCJ not sure if you researched all that but my hats off to you for sharing it for the masses Peace on the Increase Mark
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That's lots of food for thought or nonthought if I put my Zen hat on. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
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thanks to CCj for the inspiration, to Robert Hunter for the tune and all of you folks hereSung to the tune of Boys in The Barroom Heads In The Deadnet Does God look down on the heads in the Deadnet Mainly forsaken all slightly deranged? Dead, Pigpen, Ace, their ears in the vines In music to free our minds From Tapers Section, Vault, Roadtrips and box sets Dick’s Picks and studio the songs that we love Many’s the day spent on tour and listening Searching for the Sound of bliss and The Other One Jerry’s sweet guitar to Phil’s shaking bombs Who loves this music, loves it to the bone I love this bands tunes like some love who knows what One thing we wonder sometimes Does God look down on the heads in the Deadnet Mainly forsaken all slightly deranged? From Chatroom to Dark Star, Dead Hour, Forums, Truckin’ In music to free our minds
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it was really easy to get those song quotes using the link I put at the bottom of that post. be kind of cool to see them all together, and take it in as one reading, I thought. Thank God, Buddha, Allah, et al. for the good O'l Grateful Dead!! love and peace.
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Sirius radio Bluegrass channel 65 plays 6 hours of good bluegrass gospel music every Sunday morning .
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Not much going on here lately. If ,like littlebri, folks would write their thoughts in a respectful and loving manner we like reading them. Even those of us who have searched everywhere and know there is only one thing we CAN believe in. We who believe in Jesus are told by him that we will be hated. Maybe we should be put in our own little box,say, "The Promised Land: A Christian Forum". We're all in this together. Peace.
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After thinking about it, I think "Sisters & Brothers: the Christians forum,would be a better name. Almost everyone here has been very kind so far, I just think it would be nice if we had a place where we could pray for each other in Jesus name. Bless you all.
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are you asking for a topic for Deadhead Christians? Not saying yes or no, just making sure that's what you want before I make inquiries. Thanks!
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hi marye, that's what I was thinking about. Just thought I'd see if the idea had any support before I'd ask you. Whatever is decided is fine with me. Thanks for all the work you've done for this website.
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Sometimes the light's all shinin on meOther times I can barely see Lately it occurs to me What a long, strange trip it's been
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and LEAVE IT ON!
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I'm not opposed to the idea; after all, the Wharf Rats topic is a particular branch of the spirituality tree as far as I'm concerned, and other branches could function in a similar manner. What I'm a bit worried about, aside from addressing any legal endorsement-of-a-particular-religion issues (which may or may not exist), is drawing energy away from a topic of diverse perspectives and the insight that entails into more or less enclaves of believers (or unbelievers, as I'm sure the agnostics, atheists, anti-theists, etc., would perfectly reasonably want THEIR topic too). I don't think the two are necessarily incompatible; think of all the different parts of our lives that run concurrently, as it were. But in practice, people only have so much energy and some discussions thrive at the expense of others. All of which is, I admit, pretty meta. But let's brainstorm this a bit if we want to pursue it, in the full understanding that any principles that evolve will also apply to topics for Wicca, tribal religion, divergent strains of Buddhism, etc. Do we want to do this, and if so, how? (Assume for the moment that the system is what it is and works the way it works now.) Might some of this need, for example, be addressed by formally scheduled chats? E.g. Christian Deadhead chats Tuesday 7 p.m.? (We've done a little experimenting with special-event chats, so this might be doable without disrupting the main chat room.) Anyway, thoughts welcome; no fast moves contemplated.
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Surely the unifying factor here is and should be a love for the Grateful Dead! I like the mix up here with so many beliefs in the same space linked by the dead family, maybe like the crowd at a show. We had a bit of a bumpy start to this forum but now its found a considerate and interested level. No disrespect intended but I find it a bit sad if the Christians (or any other group) feel they really really need their own space separate from everyone else.If that's what you really want and need then that's OK with me I suppose, but please think first; what is that saying to everyone else? There must be lots of websites where Christians or other groups can have some exclusive space if they need that.
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i think CB is correct in thinking that one space fits us all. do we really want to splinter apart, like the GREAT nations of the world, i would cross the border of differing thoughts, would i be welcome? world without borders
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and free flowing exchange of ideas in this topic as it exists right now in this time and space. I want to hear about other peoples thoughts on sprituality even though they may differ from mine in ways, we also have common ground and that is fun to explore and grow with. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
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I would like to keep us all together too. I enjoy hearing other people's views too. It just seems there's always someone who has to come out and trash the Bible or Christianity in a very negative and hostile way. You don't see that kind of anger about other religions. After the last exchange nobody came here for a month. It would be nice if someone who isn't a Christian but sees someone attacking us here would post a comment saying "Hey, I'm not a Christian, but we don't put up with that kind of shit on this website, learn to love or take a hike." Let's all get along.
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Christianity wasn't the only religion that was having negative comments made about it here; there were also some about Buddhism and the Dalai Lama. I don't mind having my belief system questioned, it was just kind of relentless, like someone was on a campaign and wouldn't stop even after he had made his point. But that hasn't happened for awhile. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
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I couldn't agree more. As mod, I generally don't like to come in and start smacking people around except as a really last and desperate resort. I come from the world of CC's Old School, though as a relative latecomer. Or maybe the Patrick Swayze Roadhouse School, depending on the moment. However, the aforementioned screeds were over the top, and they're also a pretty classic example of stuff that happens every now and then, and how community standards develop. If, as I would fondly hope, we're going to have this kind and congenial and welcoming outpost out here, it takes community members standing up and saying "we don't put up with that kind of shit on this website," rather than just me putting on the mod hat. This time it's about religion-bashing, but next time maybe it's Obama. Or Cuba. Or Israel. Or child-rearing philosophy. Or corporate employers. There is never going to be any shortage of things we disagree about. One of the remarkable things about the whole GD thing is that for several decades it brought together millions of people who would otherwise never have crossed paths, in this seriously intense and life-changing experience, and exposed them to adventures and viewpoints they never would have had otherwise. And by all accounts from the tours of the individual bandmembers' bands of late, it still goes on. I would hate to blow this rare gift by getting bogged down in the things that divide us, and I think finding the balance between feeling free and safe in speaking one's mind and exercising the necessary restraint so one's fellow conversationalists feel likewise--that's essential. It's also real hard to do, and I appreciate the fact.
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here visiting in the land of Zen nothingness... enjoying the sights and sounds of places visited long ago; memories have faded, but beauty and tranquility remain eternal. the fountain of life, the water of love... may it wash over all of us as we bathe together in our love of grateful philosophy, no matter what 'name' religion may have, I am quite certain that somewhere, someplace, Jesus, Buddha, Allah, Vishnu, et al are all hanging around together listening to some shows. marye, dare I ask? The Patrick Swayze Roadhouse School??! A Swayze with any other hairstyle would smell as ____________ (please fill in the blank) yuk yuk yuk... ( -; There is INDEED, plenty of room for diversity here. Diversity in Swayze's hairstyles notwithstanding... love and peace.
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Am curious too about the Patrick Swayze Roadhouse School! ;-) Tell us more about this please marye. My two cents about a Christian thread is am torn. We have threads for all kinds of things, so theoretically such a thread should fit and be welcome, as well as what Hal said about being able to read people's different views. But is also a potential hotbed, as someone's religious beliefs are a highly private and personal thing. Guess I tend to think that THIS thread, for speaking generally about religion and spirituality is just perfect for this forum, and should suffice. ********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens
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didn't see that coming,marye:) though i'd more perfer the sam elliott doctrine:)
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is what could safely be termed a genre movie, set in one of those bars (probably in Texas) where the band plays behinds a chain-link backstop because of all the flying bottles and the general culture is one of drunken head-bashing. Swayze, as the new boss, training the bouncers in the new regime: "Be nice. Until it's time to not be nice."
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and there I was thinking the Roadhouse thing had something to do with Dirty Dancing, the authority figure, the 'repressed' youths brought up in strict up-bringings... finally getting to cut loose. man, was I way off base. next time I'm in the world, I'll look for that Swayze film in the 'straight to video' video shop. ( -; though I do dig that line, 'be nice until it's time to not be nice' peace.
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in context, it works. I have severely mixed feelings about Dirty Dancing. Keep in mind I haven't seen either movie for like 20 years, so filter accordingly.
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Well said marye. July 12 post. Again showing a very well thought out perspective. A welcome change on issue's these days. Well worth reading,maybe bookmarking. Proud you are the mod :) peace and love,pk
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... if every group offended by a certain previous correspondent got their own forum, poor Marye would be busy for month setting them up! And even if they did there's nothing stopping mean people posting there too. I would venture to suggest that there has been quite a lot of peer moderation here, but not necessarily in the form of telling people how they should behave. As I see it, the site is pretty tolerant of anyone having a bit of a rant and pushing the limits from time to time so long as they don't go on and on; by and large we have managed to calm down by ourselves ;-). Now and then people have been gently asked to take it easy and more often than not have apologised. A common response to emerging nastiness and fights has been to flood the forum with humour and weirdness, which has often done the trick. Only occasionally has Marye had to intervene and then in a way that has been polite, firm and whenever possible constructive. I'd say we were doing quite well really.
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Let's give ourselves collective pat on the back :) Thanks for all of your patience & coolness Marye ~ PEACE
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Blessed to see there are others out there. May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure. Jesus Loves You The Best! greateststoryevertold.org
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also, nice tie-dye.
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Yes, welcome gset-ben! And also yes,Marye you are way cool ( and indelibly patient) .Thanks for your efforts here. They are greatly appreciated. peace,pk
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Good to see you gset-ben. Nice website. Had time to check out the gospel of the grateful dead,nice. Will have to go back for more.
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I'm not particularily religious but I do love to learn, think and philosophize. It could be a safe area for everyone to be vocal about their beliefs and a great tool for folks like me who just want to know more. I believe there are practices from each religion that we can all learn from and appreciate in order to better understand ourselves and others just a 'lil better! Hugs, ~littlebri
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hey now! greetings folks, just want to pop in and say hey now! I took a quick peek at this website, and will look at it in more detail in a few days when I will have about 5 hours to kill in an airport in a far away land... I am not a religious person, but from what I saw here, it looks pretty cool regardless of what someone believes or not. it certainly contains plenty of 'grateful' philosophy that I try to live my life by. thanks for sharing, Ben. greateststoryevertold.org if anyone knows of a similar site that combines Buddhism or Islam or Judaism or Hinduism or whatever with 'grateful' philosophy, please post it up, too. love and peace, cc
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I believe God wants your faith to come from your heart, not your head.
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my question is what is faith and where does it really come from? there are two main definitions. the first is that it is our trust and confidence in something, and the second is that faith is the belief in god or the teachings of a religion. so does faith come from our hearts (trust) or is it in our head (teachings). anyone that has the will to believe really has to look inside of themselves and determine first what faith is to them, and there they will find the answer. In the end, any decisions you make come from your values and virtues not your faith. I believe that this life is part of a series of lives and we ultimitely have to be able to look at ourselves in the mirror at the end of the day and determine what it is that we cherish, what we value and what we can vision. To do this, is a combination of both trust in something (ourselves, religion) and our teachings. ~littlebri
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Very nice observation littlebri, for me faith is a grounding force that comes from those things which speak true to my heart and help me keep on keepin on.
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I have also spent "a lot" of time in the wilderness and have seen things in the sky a few times that I know were "not of this world". I have no doubt that humans are not the "sharpest tools in the shed". There is only one "Book" I know of that has given me a reasonable explanation of what these things might be. Boy, I'll bet everyone thinks I'm nuts now! Bless you all.
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the thing about faith, be it God, Allah, Buddha, Vishnu or whoever or whatever you believe in and have faith in... my faith in God is not nearly as important as God's faith in me, in my humble opinion. love and peace
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faith in yourself is probably the most important kind of faith. it has the ability to make the most significant difference in your life, sometimes you just have to trust yourself. essentially, if someone has the power to believe, then that person also has faith. i think it's safe to say that we all put our faith in the Grateful Dead and can come by that honestly. in a way, it's kinda like putting faith in yourself. the music and lyrics all have a significant meaning to each individual that believes in the dead. i wouldn't call myself a very religious person, but i do listen and learn religiously, a lot of times through music. love and hugs to all ~littlebri
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a good friend of mine always said, "Sunday night witht the Grateful Dead is a religious experience".........we had alot of fun........Gypsy Cowgirl
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i know the fact that the GD have used many religious in lyrics in their songs but i also believe that this was not a kind of missionary thing.believe it if you need it,if you dont just pass it on....well i made the mistake of takin a look at "greateststoryevertold.org"man i have to say that i am not too happy about the fact that i cannot get this page out from my screen anymore,and i also wonder who gave you the right to use SYF with across instead of the bolt.i do not like missionaries because they have been the reason of indigenous people being wiped out,were forbidden to talk their language(because it came from satan),and i would be happy to get this page out of my comp. again.i am sure you can help me.............................
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Hey Frankly-I totally agree with you on the missionary thing-it was the reason indigenous people were wiped out & still are oppressed. Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota is the poorest place in the USA.........don't know what else about the "greateststoryevertold.org" but I'll be sure & not go there-think I saw his writings on here somewhere........thanks for the tip!Gypsy Cowgirl
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In my travels I have met, worked with and heard about missionaries and transparently Christian organisations who work hard to help poor people and to defend the rights and traditions of indigenous groups without trying to persuade or induce people to convert. The approach appears to be to do good works because that is a Christian thing to do. Of course folks who want to convert are welcomed but that does not seem to be the agenda of those involved. These are good people. In contrast to these worthy groups and individuals are the hordes of evangelical missionaries sweeping though Asia with their fierce conviction, intense zeal and stunning ignorance and insensitivity. Their methods are not quite those of the conquistadors but not far off. Much of what they do is in my view not only unethical, it is also against the interests of the people concerned. These missionaries are so convinced they are right they do not take the trouble to learn or understand what people need or want, they wade in with their cash and their crosses and do far more harm than good. Hundreds of years ago missionaries burnt almost all the written records of the Mayan people and today they continue to desecrate cultures more ancient than theirs and far more complex and sophisticated than they know or can be bothered to find out. But as I said, they are not all like that..... in the end being a righteous person is not about what we believe but how we behave. that's my missionary position anyway ;-)
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16 years 11 months
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i do agree with you.there are people who want to help and there are people who want to conquer.so i get a catch on your sentence about desecrating cultures.i know that the cultural movement that is represented by the Grateful Dead is young,but i also know that it is for sure incredibly complex and sophisticated,as it leaves to anybody the possibility to interpret freely the lyrics and to place them on whatever place in each persons spiritual context.the greatest thing is that the SYF is something like a secret symbol that shows that you are part of a BIG community which does not judge you about your believes,philosophies of life etc.but includes you because we are jerrys kids.seeing this symbol with the cross,shows me clearly that these group sees itself as something special..which gives me the idea that they might be part of the second kind of missionaries.peace:-)(-:Frankly
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I understand your point and tend to share your view of missionaries, but, c'mon. Given the cheerful abandon with which the stealie has been adapted for personal artwork of all stripes, and some of it even becoming part of the official offerings (e.g. Space Your Face), I'm not exactly surprised if Deadhead Christians fuse their two most important symbols. I'm sure, for example, I've seen Star of David stealies over the years. (Disclaimer: I do not speak for Grateful Dead Productions here...) And let him who has never dragged a reluctant friend or family member to a Dead show cast the first stone, re missionary zeal. The whole One True Path thing is a big trouble vector, whoever's preaching it.
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"the greatest story ever told" was used as a Bible/Jesus term long, long before the song Hunter insists is actually called "Moses" was written, and indeed that's part of the song's resonance.
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for example the line "ashes ,ashes all fall down"is a recitation of the revelation of st.john also known as the apocalypse...and i am aware of the tons of recitations of this kind appearing in the lyrics.but thats what i am trying to say,everybody is free to place this words in his/her model of believe.the side i saw appeared to me like fishing for new customers..thats only my opinion and i think i have the freedom to share it on this site.likewise everybody else has the freedom to agree with me or not.thats all!!!:-)(-:Peace anyway..Frankly
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16 years 9 months
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Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.