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    marye
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    Nuclear power! Carcinogenic cell phones! The Stanley Cup! and the usual parade of kids dancing and shaking their bones, politicians throwing stones, etc. Discuss.

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  • Anna rRxia
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    Joe Smith (Capitol Records CEO) on the Grateful Dead
    Smith was on Morning Joe this morning talking about his interactions with different musicians in the 60s and touting his new book: Off The Record. He kept bringing up the Grateful Dead and how he was petrified of being dosed by members of the entourage to the point where he was freezing in NYC one evening as he got into the backstage area of a Dead show and Garcia offered him a coffee to warm up but he said -- "No thanks, I'll get my own coffee." This anecdote has been cited several times somewhere on this site. Apparently he got quite scared as he was told that he would never understand the music of the Grateful Dead unless he tried acid, which he was certain he would never do. The Grateful Dead, an American icon of the 60s still making the morning talk shows now and again.
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    death having been revealed
    "Who did the council fight?""It split in two and fought itself." "That's suicide!" "No, ordinary behaviour. The efficient half eats the less efficient half and grows stronger. War is just a violent way of doing what half the people do calmly in peacetime: using the other half for food, heat, machinery and sexual pleasure. Man is the pie that bakes and eats himself, and the recipe is separation." "I refuse to believe men kill each other just to make their enemies rich." "How can men recognize their real enemies when their family, schools and work teach them to struggle with each other and to believe law and decency come from the teachers?" "My son won't be taught that," said Lanark firmly. "You have a son?" "Not yet." - from Lanark by Alasdair Gray.
  • Anna rRxia
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    20th Anniversary of 1992 LA Riots
    I just watched the special on the 20th anniversary of the LA Riots, the worst single riot in American history: 58 dead and 1 billion in damage in three days of rioting. It was brutal. I don't think enough attention was paid to our system of justice in this country that allowed the 4 cops to walk after the whole thing was on video for the world to see -- Rodney King being beaten by baton wielding maniacs. Rodney King, recently found dead at the bottom of his swimming pool shortly after the 20th anniversary of the riots... The footage in this video was gripping. Reginald Denny being pulled from his truck and bludgeoned with a brick. The mania that grips a crowd and turns it into a wild animal bent on blood lust. This is something that every person would rather forget and in forgetting we are doomed to repeat it in the future. Apparently corporate America decided that no white people would be interested in watching this special. The only sponsor of commercials was Burger King. In 1993 the Dead started to play the LA Sports Arena and did 9 or so shows there through the end in 1995. This venue is in South LA and borders the trouble area. There was a couple of years following the riots where everybody just chilled out and caught their breath. Race relations between the Koreans and the black community have improved. Race relations between blacks and whites remain largely the same. As long as we just spend money to contain pockets of poverty we will never be rid of this problem. Slaves brought from Africa become free, gain rights and are integrated into a social welfare system. A very few of the best and brightest and most athletically capable break out of this cruel segregation while the rest, including a large percentage of talented, above-average people, are doomed to lives of poverty and mediocrity based simply on the color of their skin. If ever there was a recipe for anger and frustration periodically over-boiling, this is it.
  • fluffanutter
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    The handwriting on the wall for baby-boomers
    While there are a lot of baby-boomers in their fifties who are already suffering greatly after being buffeted about by strong economic winds they haven't really felt the intense shock that will be surely be coming as they reach old-age and find that the social safety net is being pulled out from under them. Medicare cuts, higher retirement age and reduced social security benefits are three things that are surely coming. We shouldn't have our heads in the sand regarding these looming issues. Why? Because the national debt is soaring. The interest on the debt is now 250 billion diollars a year and will shortly shoot up to one trillion dollars a year unless drastic steps are taken. The Bowles-Simpson approach to cutting the debt will surely be adopted in some modified version by a bi-partisan commission. There will be many other cuts to social programs as well as deep cuts in the military. It'll be worse if these cuts come with a Republican president rather than a Democratic one but the crunch IS coming, no matter which is in power. An interesting thing to know would be what percentage of baby-boomers don't have steady occupational jobs till age 65 that would allow them to retire with social secuirty, 401k, pension and investment income... I would venture to guess that the figure is somewhere around 80% who don't have that kind of security. Probably another 30% have some combination of two or more of those. That leaves a probable 50% who are counting on a meager bank account and a social security check to see them through retirement. If the social safety net is cut, the age at which social security may be collected raised and the amount of social security reduced -- as well as section 8 housing and food stamps -- the vast majority of baby-boomers will be suffering greatly. Their ability to pay for rent, groceries, utilities and health care will be slight. If their kids are not in a position to help them for whatever reason, who can they turn to? This is going to be a horror show. This is something to think seriously about and plan for in the future. I could make predictions about what this 50% would do, but it would be dark and depressing. I don't see any way out of this for the people who haven't worked hard and scrupulously saved for their retirement.
  • fluffanutter
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    This summer's swan song
    I'll be doing two shows this summer: Furthur on July 5th and Mickey Hart's Mysterium Tremndum at Salisbury Beach on July 18th. Both are tour openers. They should be good shows. After that I've decided to call it quits on attending further Grateful Dead related acts. I've supported a lot of the post-Jerry acts in the past and for the most part haven't been disappointed but there comes a time to say "It's been a great ride! Thanks for the memories...". I think now is that time. I wish the younger fans and the older "young-at-heart" heads the best times in the future. My interests will now gravitate to folk and blues and bluegrass, looking for the best in each of those genres. Thanks for the memories!
  • Anna rRxia
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    Resupplying the troops in Afghanajam
    Since the US bombed a Pakistani troop position and killed 24 troops last October the Pakistan government closed down resupply routes through that country. (Speaking of which, Obama recently declared that any military age male in the vicinity of a Coalition air strike is an enemy combatant. Guess the Coalition is done apologizing and compensating for that class of collateral damage) Anyway, that left a huge pipeline filled with supplies backed up in Karachi. The US has been resupplying through northern routes, utilizing Turkey and Russia and other countries to the north of Afghanistan. There is one tunnel going under a mountain in Afghanistan that is now backed up for almost three days with thousands of trucks waiting to pass. The US Quartermaster Corps is crowing that they are moving even larger amounts of goods now than they were before, albeit at a much greater cost. Still, the US would be very grateful if Pakistan would reopen the routes through it's country. Not likely. The Pakistani government and people have basically told the US to stick it. The US has come, in return, to recognize that powerful elements within the elites in that country are the enemy. "A fine state of affairs, General Olllie!" "Don't start with me, General Stan. I've had quite enough of your fly-boys bombing the wrong people!"
  • Anna rRxia
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    So global warming doesn't exist in NC?
    Lets all stick our heads in the sand and pretend there is nothing wrong. That will certainly take care of the problem! Barnum-like con-men can continue to front for rich interests and swindle people who don't feel they need to pay attention to the news. I don't know how anybody can be that much in denial. I was outside for two hours yesterday at the peak of a bright, sunny day that might have been 75 degrees and I got a sunburn! I gather the newest topic at conservative think tanks is: How do we make money as the planet crashes and burns? They have to get that last load of gold bricks lowered into the survival bunker. The timing is quite tricky...
  • Anna rRxia
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    repugnant nc repubs
    Reserving the right to discriminate. Three cheers for those crazy no-ka-lah republicans.
  • gratefaldean
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    One more from NC
    What with the polar ice caps melting and sea level rising as a result, planning coastal develpment can get to be a little tricky. With predictions for as much as a meter rise in sea level by 2100, the last thing that you want to do is build homes, hotels, and roads in places that will be underwater in 20 or 30 years. Fear not, though. The NC legislature has figured out a nifty way around this pesky problem: a Bill currently making the rounds would mandate the method used to predict how quickly and how much the waters will rise, to the exclusion of all other means of projecting rising sea levels. Specifically, only historical (going back to 1900) trending data can be used for these calculations -- current data and extrapolations from those trends MAY NOT BE CONSIDERED. Not coincidentally, the "historical" method for making these projections shows only an 8" increase in water levels through 2100. Note that scientists who argue that our current climate warming trend is not the result of human activities, who argue that it is part of the natural warming/cooling of the earth and not due to manmade GHG emissions, generally do not deny that we ARE going through a warming period. Some politicians, it seems, disagree. I'm thinking that future Wishful Thinking legislation could be key in solving nearly all of our country's problems. If only we don't let the facts get in our way, the future is bright, my friends. Buy those sunglasses today! Matt Cain, what a game. I'm hoping for his sake, and the Giants, that he doesn't suffer the same fate as Phil Humber, who seems to have forgotten how to pitch since he tossed his perfect game. A lot less likely for that to happen to Cain, I think.
  • gratefaldean
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    More news from NC
    Maybe this tells you what you need to know about the North Carolina Republican party...Article III from the party's platform: "Government should treat all citizens impartially, without regard to wealth, race, ethnicity, disability, religion, sex, political affiliation or national origin. We oppose all forms of invidious discrimination. Sexual orientation is not an appropriate category." I'm so glad that the authors oppose all forms of invidious discrimination, except the forms that they don't oppose. Come on folks, don't be shy, tell us what you REALLY think. Note that the first qualifier is "wealth?" Maybe I'm reading too much into that one. Naaahhh...
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Nuclear power! Carcinogenic cell phones! The Stanley Cup! and the usual parade of kids dancing and shaking their bones, politicians throwing stones, etc. Discuss.

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Although the popular vote will be very close the Democratic "Get-Out-The-Vote" operation will be blistering and Obama has a n 86% chance of winning the eletoral vote. The Romulans and Republicans in general lied and lied and lied and attacked women's reproductive rights, among every other decent thing under the sun. After a ton of hard work we should be all raising a glass of champagne to 4 more years of progressive policies. Many thanks to Bruce Springsteen for his efforts in support of the president!
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Will make a huge difference all around the world from Dubai to Mumbai to Shanghai. Like it or not you're a citizen of the Empire with all the rights and responsibilities. Jerry didn't give it any energy. Phil & Bob helped Obama four years ago. The Grateful Dead/Rex/Furthur support(ed) progressive policies that come from people like Barak Obama. I hate to sound pedantic, but this is the most important election until a progressive third party breaks through.
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and in the spirit of reaching across party lines, may some healing vibes and quality organic salve be applied to romney's booty for the severe spanking he received from his home state of massachusetts............ouch! "when life looks like easy street, .................."
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Congratulations to the President: may he enjoy a successful second term. Thank you all, especially the women voters, for supporting Barack Obama and surviving the barrage of negative advertising aka Rove and the Koch brothers. Washington and Colorado passed initiatives legalizing the recreational use of marijuana: wonder how long it will take Kansas to step in that direction??
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A truly great, Lincolnesque victory speech to a crowd of of 10k campaign workers who had to spend at least 20 hours knocking on doors. We should all hope that Republicans come to their senses and work to ensure health care, cuts in the military and a way to stop the interest on the national debt from going nuclear. In the words of Bush after his re-election: "I have earned political capital and i intend to use it." Bring it Mr. Obama!
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14 years 10 months
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Democratic demographics: lost white men won blacks won hispanics won woman (single, married, single moms) won asians The Republicans are dead!
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Let's just say I have friends and family of all political persuasions, and I don't choose either for their politics. That said, I'm finding the plight of my lifelong-Republican sister, who cannot believe the hijacking of her party by the loonies, pretty interesting.
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reminds me of lama gonzo in some ways. Good wishes to either, or both?
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17 years 4 months
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That Gonzo done good this election cycle. Anna, if you're in touch, send him congrats.
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when second congressional district representative tammy baldwin was elected to the u.s. house of representatives, displacing a genuinely shocked tommy thompson (good riddance)! tammy will be the 77th woman in the house, the first woman from wisconsin in the house, and the very first non-incumbent, openly gay person to serve in congress. she is a true progressive and a leading advocate for universal healthcare, energy independence, civil rights and women's reproductive rights. i will probably never see the day when women rule the house and the senate ( or the country) with their hearts and their minds, but it sure did my heart good on tuesday night to see that this politically bipolar state thought with their hearts and minds and made history by electing a TRUE representative of the people. way to go wisconsin and congratulations to tammy baldwin! and . . . . . . .since this is called "trouble ahead, trouble behind" i'll say -- with reservation: the house remains red the senate is blue once again obama is screwed! the obstructionistic behavior from boehner and norquist and company has already started in full force and it looks likely that pres. obama is going to have one hell of a fight on his hands for the next 4 years (again) with these assholes. i sincerely hope i'm wrong.
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The only thing is now the legislature and governorship in WI is single-party controlled...
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hence the "politically bipolar". sure don't know how the hell tea party muppet scott walker got voted in as gov. along with a tea party majority state congress and then folks here turn around and vote for tammy over tommy, but it happened. glad, too. she's a great change from this state's "norm" ploliticos and a good seed to have been planted. you know what else, wtj? one of my favorite pastries is an eclaire...... :))))))))))) hehehe
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73 Saturday > 23 Monday, in KC. Thanks to those of us who pushed for, participated in and contributed to the recent reelection of our US president. Like Marye mentioned, I too have an older sister hell-bent on voting Republican, regardless of who they are and what they stand for. I hope Congress will avert the fiscal cliff dilemma now facing us. Don't laugh too hard when the Chiefs get throttled in Pittsburgh tonight on national tv....
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- from an ex-doorman who used to load his limos every other weekend for the hamptons and would receive a check for $50 at the holidays from the wealthiest resident of 740 park avenue, n.y. -- exclusive home of more billionaires than any other address in the u.s. this youn man was fired as a doorman from 740 park avenue when he inadvertantly opened the limo doors in "incorrect sequence", thus causing the poor billionaire's ego some undue and unwarranted distress .........
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The Republicans may be down but they are not out. When Obama and the liberals have spent the US into bankruptcy in 4 years, the Republicans will rise again and save the country.
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Stalin had a word for you Obama lackies - useful idiots. Voting for your own demise. Obamacare puts your health into the hands of big, bloated out of touch government. 2700 pages of rules, taxes and regulation. Try reading a page sometime. Not one person who voted for it read it. 2700 pages written by lobbyists and special intrest groups. It has already increased health care costs. If it was so good, why was the subject avoided on this year's campaign trail? Why wasn't it implimented immidiatly? Why don't the eletists who voted for it subject themselves to it? San Fran Nan (Pelosi) idiotically stated " We have to pass the bill to find out what is in it" - How stuipid! (For good reading some day look into how her Starkist Tuna operation in American Samoa benefitted from the stimulus package). Socialism has never worked and will never work. Piven, Ayers, Alinsky - smart people - They know how to turn their followers into useful idiots. Don't fall into the trap. I remember the sadness I felt when it was announced that Woodstock was a "free" concert. Many people worked countless hours to deliver a great product. The glee from people who stormed onto the concert site was disappointing. The generation who wanted something for nothing is now stealing from future generations to bolster their own power. We are trillions in debt. A trillion seconds ago it was 29,000 B.C. I despise government and want less of it. Look for candidates who promote freedom, property rights and individual liberty. Oooo freedom, Oooooo Liberty.
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It is okay to disagree here. It is not okay to call people names. Cut it out. ME, forum moderator
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16 years 10 months
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are flying their flags at half mast
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the cupcakes with the squiggles on top any more? Back in the '50s, those things were hot stuff. Of course, back in the '50s they were probably made with real food ingredients, too.
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loved one of their products so much, they immortalized it in a song....... :) ...... (that's my belief and i'm stickin' with it) @mike: "a world without twinkies, ho hos,and ding dongs" who among us would be left? :D.....lol
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I loved those little cupcakes. I would peel off the frosting skin and eat that first before making my way to the cake. Life used to be so simple.
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The arctic ice cap melted down to a record 24% ice-cap (in other words 76% ice free). 97% of the Greenland ice sheet was melting this year. Read the article from the NY Times @ nytimes.com/2012/09/20/science/earth/arctic-sea-ice-stops-melting-but-new-record-low-is-set.html?_r=0. 350.org, an environmental group crunching the numbers, with the help of Price, Warterhouse, Coopers, says that 2% is the amount of global rise in temperature that can be tolerated (a figure accepted by scientists worldwide). We are at 1%. The amount of carbon that can be spewed in the air before we reach that 2%, total, is 587 gigatons. The amount of carbon based fuels stockpiled ALREADY, by companies such as Exxon-Mobil and Peabody coal is 2800 gigatons. The Keystone Pipeline will be the first environmental test for the Obama Administration. Even if he doesn't go after that project there are other projects in the works to bring tar sands oil to export from the Gulf of Mexico states. Sandy showed our planet is changing. Extremes are the new norm. There is a large measure of psychic-numbing out there. Not to mention poor people in W. Virginia in the coal industry wanting their jobs in coal and being forced by their companies to contribute to Romney super-pacs. Global warming is mutating our planet. It doesn't matter who is to blame. I hope the restored Rex Foundation gives 350.org a grant. There is no place to live, no matter how much money you have, not to be effected by this.
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"A system of conservation based solely on economic self-interest is hopelessly lopsided. It tends to ignore, and thus eventually to eliminate, many elements in the land community that lack commercial value, but that are (as far as we know) essential to its healthy functioning. It assumes, falsely, I think, that the economic parts of the biotic clock will function without the uneconomic parts. It tends to relegate to government many functions eventually too large, too complex, or too widely dispersed to be performed by government. "An ethical obligation on the part of the private owner is the only visible remedy for these situations." – Aldo Leopold
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The essential philosophy of the last Bush Administration was that "God" put the whole planet at our disposal to profit from. The landowner has a moral duty and responsibility to take stewardship. collectively, of that land which he does not own. I see both extremes where I live in Vermont. People who dump their garbage over a hill (it cost money to dispose of garbage, never mind recycle) , into a watershed and people who show up annually for "Green-up Vermont" day and pick up the garbage as well as being active in their local communities about land use all year round.
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Those vowing the Republicans will rise again. Ain't gonna happen unless they learn GOTV (Get Out The Vote). Billions spent by Karl Rove's and Koch's on negative advertizing couldn't defeat the ground operation. There are more people at the bottom than the top. Keep on demonizing, Rush You're pushing them right into our column.
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that voting for the extremist candidate who wants to gut social security, medicare, the epa, and privatize everything in sight -- all paul ryan objectives (and an ayn rand, "atlas shrugged" devotee) -- would be voting for your own demise, but that's just me.
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12 years 9 months
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I think this election has shown the nation what a bag of nuts and bolts the Republican party truly is. The fact that "legitimate rape" was a discussion that made its way to the political stratosphere shows just how out of touch the Conservative brand is from the rest of the nation. Personally, as father to a daughter, there's no way in Hades I'd vote Republican after that kind of talk was entertained. Another big problem we have in this country is the media, and I'm not just talking about Fox News; the media has been allowed to get away with contorting and/or flat-out making up facts to persuade/dissuade the public, and it's appalling. Whatever responsibility to the public the media of yesteryear pledged, that code of ethics and conduct died out long ago. The problem is that they have no one but themselves to answer to, and they are the primary outlet for any and all information the majority of Americans receive on a regular basis. Morale Majority my left foot....
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it's really real....... reality sank in today when i was in my local grocery store, and the hostess section was already wiped out! no more suzy-q creamy particles to wipe off my face no more munchie time, no more lunchie time no more "any" time. hostess produced a fine line of laboratory made, industrial grade survival foods a culinary symphony of sugar, fat, and all things artificial with an ingredient list that only an accomplished chemist could appreciate chewy, gooey and who didn't feel better with a hostess product in their hand? just seeing the box brought about a sense of mild euphoria (i was pavlov's dog, incarnate, at the sight of a fresh suzy-q) not to mention that all hostess products qualified as an important part of a balanced vegetarian diet "the times they are a changin' " this is TRULY sweet - sorrow....... :(
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In case you haven't heard, the latest is Hostess will get a reprieve. All this talk is part of a hardball game between management and unionized bakers. The latest court challenge has rejected management's bankruptcy request...so that means prepare for frosting.
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i hadn't heard. that is definitely good news. ever since friday, i thought that maybe this really was the event the mayans were predicting.i feel cautiously optimistic now.............. maybe there's hope for those store shelves after all. and thanks, mike, for the link.............cool article.
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Been having difficulties with posting lately. Usually I get some kind of timing-out error message, but then when I check, the post is actually there. But right now I'm just filling up space to get rid of the double post that just occurred (I only hit save once, I swear!).
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Twinkies are still being produced in Canada. Road trip!
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Hope everybody out there has a happy, healthy and safe holiday weekend. (PS) Slow down, relax, listen to music in the car, no need to text while driving...
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Happy Thanksgiving y'all! Just made another WAG on 30 Days of November: haven't spent a lot of time on researching the daily selections. Appreciate the "picks" and the fun provided by DL. Sure hope the winter precipitation starts happening in the draught-stricken Rockies and great plains region: Hardly any snow on the mountains at Steamboat this morning.
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The Patriots lost Rob Gronkowski last week to a broken arm and I thought they might have a hard time against the Jets, a divisional rival like the Dolphins that often give them fits. No need to worry. Brady & Company, with superb coaching of Bellichek (His 200th career victory), jacked the Jets, stealing the football 5 times and marching easily up the field on offense to chew up the clock. In the last two games the Pats have scored 59 and 49 points respectively. Their defense ain't nothing to sneeze at either. With a seven and one divisional record, they are going to the playoffs with a first-round bye -- nobody close! Imagine when they are healthy? Gronkowski is due back for the playoffs. This Thanksgiving Day the Lions game was far more interesting to watch.
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The rich got richer and the poor got poorer, while I had a leftover turkey sandwich and graded student essays, which is my plan for today and tomorrow too.
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14 years 10 months
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The election is over and people are trying to breath a sigh of relief. No need to talk about this again. Unfortunately, the fiscal cliff has thrown it back in our face. To be clear, it is about taxes and balancing the budget. The bad news is that it is is a one-sided debate. We have the debate being driven by old-fashioned conservative "balance-the-books" conservatives. Only today the Keynsians have raised their heads to chime in about the debate. The Brits and Europeans have gone through the conservative approach before and have now found themselves bogged down in a double-dip recession. The liberals are now floating more Keynsian ideas that would include the best of Obama's ideas (tax the freakin' rich) close loopholes, raise the capital gains tax to 20% and gut the military-industrial complex. Make cosmetic changes to entitlement programs, mostly making sure the rich can't take advantage of them. Then spend money on creating jobs, mostly by rebuilding America's infrastructure. We could have 4% growth in this country with that policy. The only thing standing in the way is the Republicans. Next time somebody asks you about the "Fiscal Cliff" give them this version or a variant for an answer, don't let somebody else's agenda dominate the debate.
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President Obama has personally approved 2500 drone strikes in his first four years. Talk about karma! Most of the people killed had it coming. They were plotting against us and would kill innocent people. This is a major escalation in the drone method, which allows us to attack enemies in countries where we have not declared war. The Obama administration, it was revealed today, made up rules to make sure the President always has the final say, instead of delegating the responsibility to others. They were afraid of what Mitt might do. People have remarked on the cold steeliness of Barak Obama. He is not a man to be crossed. I think people who doubt his resolve should watch how the Iranian nuke problem plays out...
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Palestine was admitted to the UN as an observer state last week. The entire world, 139 countries, voted for the resolution and two voted against, the US and Israel. Listening to the talking heads justifying the US move made me laugh out loud. The building of Israeli settlements is now the hugest obstacle to peace in the matter and the US insists it is other factors that are to blame. For a better understanding of how the US relates to Israel and against Palestine in this humanitarian tragedy, the building of the largest and most densely populated slum in the world, read Noam Chomsky's words on the subject. I don't have a specific book right off the top of my head, just google it and you'll find multiple words of his on the subject by Chomsky. What is the old saying? Treat other people the way you would like yourself to be treated? Israel should heed those words. Perhaps it wouldn't find itself reviled around the world.
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Royal Dutch Shell has announced publicly that through expansion of fracking shale oil and natural gas production the US will become the world's leading energy producer within ten years. This will in turn produce a manufacturing(!?!) boom in the US as energy is the driving cost factor in sending jobs overseas. It will now be again cheaper for manufacturing (and better for the environment) to be done in the US, most probably in the mid-west. This is a major WOW factor for the US. For the next 100 years we are guaranteed to be the strongest economy on the planet and our political ties to the Mid-East will change forever.
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Because Israel has announced new settlements in Gaza & the West Bank. Imagine in ten years when the US will no longer be that interested in the Middle East? Perhaps the 5 billion dollars a year in foreign aid to Israel can be used for more worthwhile causes within our own country.
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I hope you west coasters are doing okay with all the rain these past few days. The moisture has moved mostly northeast due to the jet stream and the strong gulf air pushing dry air north through the great plains, where we're setting high temp records. We can't buy a raindrop in eastern Kansas. Colorado ski resorts are hurting for snow. What snowfall amounts are registering in the Cascades and Sierras?
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You would be a good one to enter this Dogfish contest.
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I never condone violence. I only highlight this to show how pissed-off people are that the government is going to screw with our medicare and social security benefits, raising the retirement age to 67. Not a done deal you say? We elected Obama and he'll save the day you say? Don't count on it. The Democrats are going to cut a deal eventually that will include these provisions. Why do i know this? Because Democratic spokespeople like Howard dean are saying it already. Screw that and screw the democrats. We worked hard to retire at 65 and and NOBODY should be able to take that from us. All people who have their heads buried in the sand and don't listen to the news or have anything to do with politics? LISTEN! You won't be able to retire at 65 anymore unless you're in the top five percent of income earners. Are you? Do you have a combined income of more than 250k a year and have planned so well for retirement that you don't need these two things? Well aren't you special! I need them. I worked hard for them. This whole drama of the fiscal cliff is a bad morality play with bad actors and a bad script!!!