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    lilgoldie
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    What's Inside:
    • Five Complete Shows
    • 5/11/77 St. Paul Civic Center Arena, St. Paul, MN
    • 5/12/77 Auditorium Theatre, Chicago, IL
    • 5/13/77 Auditorium Theatre, Chicago, IL
    • 5/15/77 St. Louis Arena, St. Louis MO
    • 5/17/77 University Of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, AL
    •14 Discs, 111 tracks
    •Mastered in HDCD by Jeffrey Norman, Plangent Processes playback system for maximum sonic accuracy
    •Artwork by Grammy Award-winning graphic artist Masaki Koike
    •Period Photos by James R Anderson
    •Historical Essay by Steve Silberman
    •Individual show liner notes

    MAGICAL, MYTHICAL MAY 1977!

    If you're a Dead Head, chances are you've spent many an hour expounding upon the distinction of May 8, 1977, Cornell University, Barton Hall. Well, at the risk of preaching to the choir, we'd like to reintroduce you to a series of shows that matches said greatness from that same gloriously fertile season. While Barton Hall is well known, the astounding tour that surrounded it has occasionally flown under the radar due to the uneven quality of tapes in circulation. May 1977 is set to change all of that with a boxed set that zeroes in on this high-water mark in the Grateful Dead's long strange trip.

    For a band resurrecting itself after a 20-month hiatus, there was a great frenzy of expectancy that surrounded the Spring of 1977. We anticipate a grand reoccurrence of this fervor with the release of May 1977, a 14-disc boxed set featuring five complete shows from consecutive stops on that magical tour. Mastered in HDCD by Jeffrey Norman at Mockingbird Mastering, the "psychoacoustic phenomena" as Jerry once put it, of St. Paul Civic Center Arena, St. Paul, MN (5/11) Auditorium Theatre, Chicago, IL (5/12, 5/13), St. Louis Arena, St. Louis MO (5/15) and Coliseum at the University Of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, AL (5/17) can now finally be appreciated. Each of these shows finds the Dead delivering punchier, more focused sets, tightening up the framework; each night turning out first-ever renditions ("Passenger,""Iko Iko,""Jack-A-Roe"), unloading potent new pairings ("Scarlet Begonias">"Fire On The Mountain", "Estimated Prophet">"Eyes Of The World"), classic covers ("Dancing In The Street") and soon-to-be staples ("Estimated Prophet," "Samson and Delilah"), and ultimately rising up to paradise.

    And now for the nitty-gritty...

    Due June 11, May 1977 is limited to 15,000 individually numbered copies. Presented in a psychedelic box that boasts an intricate die-cut design created by Grammy®-winning graphic artist Masaki Koike, the set also includes a book filled with stories about each show, as well as an in-depth essay by Dead historian Steve Silberman, who delves deep into the history behind the tour and the band’s return from its extended hiatus.

    Once these 15,000 boxes are gone, May 1977 and its shows will never be available again on CD. However, the 111 tracks will be made available on release date as FLAC and Apple lossless full-set-only downloads for $99.98.

    Like its predecessors Europe '72: The Complete Recordings and Spring 1990, we expect May 1977 to sell out. Your best bet is to pre-order it now, then sit back, relax, and enjoy all the exclusive content we'll be rolling out over the next few weeks right here and on Facebook.com/GratefulDead and Youtube.com/gratefuldead.

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  • taphedfrek
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    Music in time share
    sorry, triple post
  • taphedfrek
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    Music in time share
    I like the idea of money for tapes. Why is there a discussion? Do not call the cops, give the kidnappers their money and get the babies back! They get what they want, we get what we want and nobody gets hurt.
  • taphedfrek
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    fundraiser for tapes
    I think this is a great idea! What is to discuss? They get what they want and we get what we want.
  • darkstartheoth…
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    Buying back tapes
    Doctor Who fans have been trying to do this for years with missing episodes and the overall efforts haven't worked all that well for buying back missing episodes. Also, those tapes, when even stored properly, will show wear. If the master reels are stored in less than ideal conditions, it's possible that the masters will be worse than what currently circulates.
  • drshakedown
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    Hey Bambini
    I will do with my money what I want..........my family makes many charitable donations of time and money, SEVA being one of my favorites if you must know. I am not talking about a charitable donation my friend, I am talking about an investment in a love and passion of mine and many others, quit playing big brother with my suggestion, if you dont like it, make an anonymous donation somewhere and go on. I simply like the idea of bringing stuff to its rightful home, and sometimes people (right or wrong) want money for its return. Another off example would be the rules of basketball......a bunch of Kansas Jayhawk fans paid BIG money to house them in Lawrence, Kansas. I feel the reels belong in the vault, and I am ready to donate, if your not, fare thee well. Peace P.S. Remember your comment below as well bambini... "Not to nitpik I bought this in a second but I would rather have the five nights at the Palladium if they are available." Were you very happy and let down all at once???
  • segan63
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    Full set downloads
    II imagine that they mean that each set will be one file(i.e. 1st set of 5/12/77 St. Paul will be one file). Therefore you can expect to download about 10 files. This is fine, unless you like to listen on an iPod or something. In my case, I bought the actual set, so I am looking forward to it.
  • bambini
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    FUNDRAISING
    GIVE MONEY TO SOMEONE WHO NEEDS IT NOT RHINO THE GRATEFUL DEAD OR SOMEONE TRYING TO EXTORT MONEY
  • Anna rRxia
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    Who would have Dead master reels?
    That somehow wasn't intimately connected with the Dead? I think there must be a ton of strange stories out there. Very mundane ones too, like the storage locker bill that never got paid...
  • drshakedown
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    that may be true
    I say let the fundraising begin. Like I said on http://www.gofundme.com/ ............. you can set it up so contributors would get something in return if wanted, otherwise you can send anonymously. For instance, $50 gets you a download of files when reel is re-covered, $100 gets you cd pack...........and so on. I am not saying what I am proposing is they way it should be....... I am starting the conversation. My buddy recently died, and we used that site to raise money for his family, and it worked great. The Garcia movie was another example, I gave $50 bucks and when nothing panned out, my money was returned, no problems. Anyway, I started this conversation because I believe in negotiating with terrorists. Peace
  • bambini
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    money for tapes
    If you pay for any tapes, any possible returns will stop. I sure there is enough in the vault to keep people happy. paying someone a lot of cash will set the bar too high for any possible returns as well as increase prices.
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What's Inside:
• Five Complete Shows
• 5/11/77 St. Paul Civic Center Arena, St. Paul, MN
• 5/12/77 Auditorium Theatre, Chicago, IL
• 5/13/77 Auditorium Theatre, Chicago, IL
• 5/15/77 St. Louis Arena, St. Louis MO
• 5/17/77 University Of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, AL
•14 Discs, 111 tracks
•Mastered in HDCD by Jeffrey Norman, Plangent Processes playback system for maximum sonic accuracy
•Artwork by Grammy Award-winning graphic artist Masaki Koike
•Period Photos by James R Anderson
•Historical Essay by Steve Silberman
•Individual show liner notes

MAGICAL, MYTHICAL MAY 1977!

If you're a Dead Head, chances are you've spent many an hour expounding upon the distinction of May 8, 1977, Cornell University, Barton Hall. Well, at the risk of preaching to the choir, we'd like to reintroduce you to a series of shows that matches said greatness from that same gloriously fertile season. While Barton Hall is well known, the astounding tour that surrounded it has occasionally flown under the radar due to the uneven quality of tapes in circulation. May 1977 is set to change all of that with a boxed set that zeroes in on this high-water mark in the Grateful Dead's long strange trip.

For a band resurrecting itself after a 20-month hiatus, there was a great frenzy of expectancy that surrounded the Spring of 1977. We anticipate a grand reoccurrence of this fervor with the release of May 1977, a 14-disc boxed set featuring five complete shows from consecutive stops on that magical tour. Mastered in HDCD by Jeffrey Norman at Mockingbird Mastering, the "psychoacoustic phenomena" as Jerry once put it, of St. Paul Civic Center Arena, St. Paul, MN (5/11) Auditorium Theatre, Chicago, IL (5/12, 5/13), St. Louis Arena, St. Louis MO (5/15) and Coliseum at the University Of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, AL (5/17) can now finally be appreciated. Each of these shows finds the Dead delivering punchier, more focused sets, tightening up the framework; each night turning out first-ever renditions ("Passenger,""Iko Iko,""Jack-A-Roe"), unloading potent new pairings ("Scarlet Begonias">"Fire On The Mountain", "Estimated Prophet">"Eyes Of The World"), classic covers ("Dancing In The Street") and soon-to-be staples ("Estimated Prophet," "Samson and Delilah"), and ultimately rising up to paradise.

And now for the nitty-gritty...

Due June 11, May 1977 is limited to 15,000 individually numbered copies. Presented in a psychedelic box that boasts an intricate die-cut design created by Grammy®-winning graphic artist Masaki Koike, the set also includes a book filled with stories about each show, as well as an in-depth essay by Dead historian Steve Silberman, who delves deep into the history behind the tour and the band’s return from its extended hiatus.

Once these 15,000 boxes are gone, May 1977 and its shows will never be available again on CD. However, the 111 tracks will be made available on release date as FLAC and Apple lossless full-set-only downloads for $99.98.

Like its predecessors Europe '72: The Complete Recordings and Spring 1990, we expect May 1977 to sell out. Your best bet is to pre-order it now, then sit back, relax, and enjoy all the exclusive content we'll be rolling out over the next few weeks right here and on Facebook.com/GratefulDead and Youtube.com/gratefuldead.

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Bums me out, I'm on Disability, can't afford this. My Favorite year. The samples are sweet, What's going on with Bobby, is his Shoulder ok? Jim
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You know, I wouldn't discount the possibility of a few hidden tracks along the lines of those on DP29 - disc 3 of 5/15/77 looks a little short for instance!
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Are you saying that Taphedfrek is one of the people hostaging Betty Boards to help goats? That the guy is actually on this thread advocating for a paycheck from the Dead for their own music? Like people who buy from Rhino to later resell on E-Bay, I find the whole motivation to make money off the Dead very strange. What did they ever do to you? Keep ticket prices reasonable even after they became wildly popular? C'mon. A band this generous (at least while Jerry was still alive) deserves NOT to pay to get it's own music back. On the other hand, deadheads of like mind can do whatever they want to. Like give to the Rex Foundation or help starving children.
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Anna - No - You completely misread my post. I was simply advising taphedfrek that the individual mentioned in the hyperlinked story matches the description of the Betty Boards guy featured in the New Yorker article (a retired teacher with goats etc.). I have no reason to believe taphedfrek IS that person. Just made a couple of minor edits to mitigate the confusion.
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Let me assure everyone that I am not one of the goat people. if i had any master tapes i would return them free of charge to their rightful home in the vault. i would hope for a complimentary copy if they were released!
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for doubting you, guy (the goat people?!?)
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I read that post while waiting to pick up my son at school, and had a good laugh! If you new me you would understand, money is not a big deal to me, even if it is helping goats. No offense taken.
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Thanks for the Relix link! I've always wondered why they can't just post a list of what is in the vault. It's always nice when someone gives a little information, but it's always in snippets, you have to search far and wide to piece it together, and even then you know it is incomplete. So it seems David is saying that the entire January '78 tour of California and the one off in Eugene is missing, though reading his statement you would think the entire month is missing and we know that is not true as the taper's section/jam of the week has included 1/30 and/or 1/31. Anyways, it is a great month and tour(s). I think David is playing fast and loose with the word "phenomenal" in describing the first leg of the spring '78 tour. 4/16 is certainly a top notch show but quite a few of the others (4/6, 4/7, 4/15) are Good shows at best. There was no mention of the 5 '77 Palladium shows, most of which circulate only on AUD. I'd certainly be interested in these but haven't listened to these shows in a long time and haven't graded them. The fact that Dick never apparently allowed the tapes to sneak out of the vault has me wondering if perhaps he was unimpressed.
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I emailed Dave about the idea of compiling a list a few months ago. Here was his response: "Thanks for the note. I wish we had teams of interns (or an intern!) who could do things like this, but we don't. We tend not to focus too much on the shows we can't release, but rather the shows we can, so it'd seem like a lot of effort that we'd have to expend for something that doesn't really do much. But, perhaps someday we'll compile a list." I figured it'd be worth not having to slog through so many emails, but considering how frequently it's been known that Cornell isn't in the vault and the number of people who still clamor for it, perhaps it would be an effort in futility. Looking forward to this box though. Got mine ordered! I've only ever listened to St. Louis and Tuscaloosa (and the 5/12 on the bonus disc from Winterland 77) but everything else is new to me. I haven't listened to the StL show much so that'll be like new too!
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The April 30 77 show was released as Download Series Number 1. It includes some bonus tracks from April 29.
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I think a fundraiser for the tapes is the dumbest idea Ive ever heard. @claney. Sorry for missing your sarcasm.
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It looks like a great box set but I am still trying to get all of Europe 72 cd by cb by hook or by crook. Thank god they decided to break up the Europe box set and thank you for that. As for the price its worth it if you got the cash. I feel the down loaded music should be cheaper and you should be able to get individual shows. What they should do is release all the Grateful Dead studio albums and live shows on there web site as downloads like the used to. I would like it if they released all of the studio albums in DVD 5.1 surround again. I had the chance to purchase working mans and american beauty years ago but passed. Shame on me. For all those who purchased the 77 enjoy and thanks for the latest dave picks primal dead is my fav.
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I wish they had included the missing tracks from DP 3 on this release but am very Grateful for this new box set :)
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This box set is gonna be awesome--ordered mine within an hour of receiving the email. Alabama show is a top 5 of the year!
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When ordering with a debit card, a hold for the purchase price is put on the account for three days. This hold is then removed until the box ships in June, and the funds are withdrawn. Spring of 90 sold out in about a month, Europe 72 sold out in four days.
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Where does GD Productions find the artists who create the artwork for their releases? I don't think I've seen a single bad album cover since Go To Nassau. Every artist is able to give the releases a personal touch and this is probably one of the coolest boxes I've seen. Ever. In any genre. The very thought that a new box set is released every year is exciting, but it always comes as a surprise to find out what the contents will be for this year (especially when design etc. of the box is all done). I didn't see a 1977 box set coming, especially not a May '77 box. I hadn't expected another '77 until at least Dave's Picks 11 or 12. This set will make the number of complete shows from 1977 fourteen, with ten earlier releases being dedicated to this year. With only a handful of songs from two different shows being released and considering the reputation of the tour, this set has the words ''WORTH IT'' written all over it. It includes most of the songs from the first half of '77 that I like: ''Minglewood Blues,'' ''Scarlet Begonias'' > ''Fire On The Mountain,'' ''Mississippi Half-Step'' and ''Dancin' In The Streets'' but only one version each of ''Row Jimmy,'' ''Eyes Of The World,'' and ''The Music Never Stopped''. Nevertheless, this should be at least as good as Winterland 1977: The Complete Recordings. Time to throw away some inferior mp3-files with I hadn't gotten around to listening anyway. The announcement regarding Dave's Picks Vol. 7 shouldn't be too far away either. It's gonna be a show from the mid to late eighties. It just has to be. Then again, a good '78 show wouldn't be bad either. And let us please not complain about what should and what should not be in this box set. This group of shows seems perfect, bridging the gap between Vol. 1 of the Download Series and Dick's Picks 29. Probably not my choice for a box set, but I'm not complaining.
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So how soon will the individual shows be made available?
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No individual shows are going to be sold. You have to buy all 111 songs for $99.98
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Whats so bad about the go to nassau cover? Its just some people walking around outside a show...
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Go to Heaven, on the other hand, may be the best album cover ever!
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Zuckfun: Thanks for the info. . .. A lot of bills coming as I buy summer tickets and the $ drainage of The Capitol Run. . .. Everybody here please promise not to tell my girl that I spent the bucks on May 77. . .. OK?
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Yeah Mustin, I like the GTN cover just fine. Oddly, my least favorite covers over the last few years have been the premier releases of Road Trips and then of Dave's Picks. Both series have ended up having some terrific cover art, but started slow - seems like a very Grateful Dead thing to do :) I still have an affinity for some of the most simple cover designs, such as the DP 1-6 fake reel box covers. If they catered to my taste they'd save a lot of money on graphic design, har har.
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Hi All I can't find any information on how to order the downloads. Has that info been released? It appears that we'll be able to order them once this is released but I'd like confirmation, if anyone knows for sure.
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Okay, order placed (not an easy transaction to make right before Mother's Day) but this will undoubtedly be a great box. I'm excited, another great by Dave.Just wondering, am I the only one who is not impressed by the artwork and packaging of this box? It doesn't look very special to me but this is NOT a complaint. In fact if that helps keep the cost down then I'm all for it. I couldn't pull the trigger on the Spring 90 set because of the price. Would have got around to it eventually but it sold out. Haven't bought the Warlocks box yet either because I can't justify paying an extra $20 or so for a cigar box. I guess my point is it's all about the music and if we can get great sounding shows in packaging that protects the discs at a decent price, that's more important than buttons and tour programs. Maybe Dead.net could offer those extras separately for those who really want them. It looks like the discs in this box are in a DVD sized case which, I'd be willing to bet, is less than ideal for most of us who collect these things. I'd prefer to put these CDs in their proper chronological place in my collection but that's a minor complaint. Overall, this looks great, we're getting some fantastic music, complete shows from one of the best tours ever at a decent price per disc.
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I'm really happy about this upcoming box set. I've never been too keen on 1977 Dead but I'm learning to appreciate it more and more over time (using good headphones is a big help, too). I've got lots of 77 stuff going back to my tape trading days and also all the official 77 releases but don't think I've heard a single note of these shows(except maybe the "Fallout from the Philzone" Jack-a-Roe).Regarding the recent release's artwork, I sort of agree with Katapultable, that most have been pretty good. But I really think the "Dave's Picks" logo is too big and garish and shouldn't be on the front nohow. Let the front have only the artwork so it has a chance to breathe. Put the logo on the spine and you have a much handsomer product. The words "Grateful Dead" on the front are not bad, especially if artfully done. Those words have cachet out the ying-yang. But the words "Dave's Picks, Vol.**" are purely utilitarian and belong on the spine or back! I also wish there were some way that the artwork could be done by deadheads who truly love the music. Deadhead folk art. Lots of artistic Deadheads out there who would love the opportunity. I suspect lots of the artwork is done by corporate professionals who may or may not care about the music. I do really love the Europe 72 box artwork and also the Spring 90 box artwork, though. (art critic hat off) I also agree Dave's Picks 6 is one for the ages! Yes, it's a great time to be a Deadhead :)
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LBC - In the blurb above it says only that the downloads will be available on the release date of June 11. Palmer - Fulll agreement on the DaP logo - I posted a while back about that logo being a challenge to the artists I would think. Rdevil - yes, looks like dVd size, bummer. But I figure it can sit alongside my Golden Rd and Beyond Descrption boxes...
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LBC - In the blurb above it says only that the downloads will be available on the release date of June 11. Palmer - Fulll agreement on the DaP logo - I posted a while back about that logo being a challenge to the artists I would think. Rdevil - yes, looks like dVd size, bummer. But I figure it can sit alongside my Golden Rd and Beyond Descrption boxes...
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Yeah claney, I remember now it was you who first pointed out here the problem with the huge logo on Dave's Picks. It really seems like it's in such obviously bad taste. Same for the Road Trips logo. People can say we're being picky, but look at the pride the Dead took in their own album artwork- at least through Shakedown Street.
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Just to set the record straight, the artwork is not being done by "corporate professionals." Scott McDougall (Europe '72 box, Road Trips, Dave's Picks 2012) is a Seattle-based artist who was drawing concert posters in the '70s. Great guy - has Rick Griffin's old desk in his house. Timothy Truman (this year's Dave's Picks) has been doing stuff for the Dead for years - t-shirt designs, Grateful Dead Comix, almanac artwork, Deadopoly, etc. Also a great guy, a musician, comic book artist/writer. Can't speak for some of the others as I've not dealt with them, but these guys are the real deal: artists documenting meaningful (to us) musical history.
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I kind of like the artwork. The color palette of the boxes in the pic brings to mind my recollection of the late 70s before the 80s hit and the trippy images of the Dead over psychedelicy looking backgrounds that, at least in the "covershot" looks like they are floating in space fits ok into my Deadverse brain space. I suspect the imagery would be better explored on a double album sleeve that one were using for some cleaning projects but, well, ya know... I don't find myself as drawn to album art as much on CDs as I used to be with albums. I don't have that many DVDs either and can see how a CD collection might not fit these boxes but I usually roll w/ CDs in my car (DaP5 and 6 right now...) but use my iPods for the vast majority of listening. Sorting stuff, longer playlists (e.g. running music, chiilling music, I recently tossed the Dead into 60s Dead and 70s Dead taking a break from my favorite Dead and have been pleased to have a new view of it...) and convenience (I have docking stations all over house, work, etc., plus I like to run...25 minute Dark Star= 3 miles). I'm looking forward to the set. Listening to DaP 6 a lot in the 60s list w/ a bunch of other releases makes me anticipate that these will sound *really* amazing and a bunch of Jerry's autowah will make this summer a lot of fun.
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thanks bolo. Yeah, I wouldn't dismiss Tim Truman or Scott McDougall as "corporate professionals". Point taken.
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Hey All, Recall Fallout from the Phil Zone release where Phil hand picks Jack-A-Roe from the Tuscaloosa 5/17/77 show for inclusion on that release. Check it... Shwack in nh
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I love all the artwork. Some I like more than others but there are none that I dislike.
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Just imagine if all the "Road Trips" and "Dave's Picks" had only the artwork on the covers and all the words were kept on the CD spine. Wouldn't that be kinda cool? The artists would probably be happier too. That's all I'm saying. But back to the music. I've been listening to the Winterland 77 box in anticipation of this new May 77 box. Man, the 6/9/77 Slipknot has an almost pre-retirement intensity and freedom. The Estimated prophet jam has a kind of sacred beauty. This coming from a head who has poo-poo'ed "post retirement" Dead most of his life.
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I want an early Christmas present!!! This is excellent.
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It doesn't seem fair to single one out from another but I really like the cerebral dimension of this box creation by Award-winning graphic artist Masaki Koike. This is a unique thinking outside the box and I'm all for that. In the end, this may be the deciding factor why I buy it, along with friendly price.
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So far, every reference to the venue for the May 17, '77 show on the University of Alabama campus lists the venue as "Coliseum". In 1977 the name of the venue was "Memorial Coliseum", later changed to "Coleman Coliseum". Hope the correct venue name appears on the box set itself.
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x
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Just got mom on hospice, this realease will be a Great commfort to my ears and mind, as we face the struggles ahead. I made nine shows and one was in the parking lot at deer creek 92, where they broke out casey jones as the encore! I am grateful for the realeases. I never got much in to tape trading. I might have 60 to 90 tapes, 84 greek theater with the darkstar is my favourite. The .org thing is cool. The whole process of going through the realease is fun! Europe 72 was hair raising, and the experience will be etched in my memory until I die. The delivery on the first of semptember, unexpected, as a freind and another freind put away christmas decorations, when my mother was in the hospital. It was not perfect, but it was good!
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looking forward to "all the exclusive content" they'll be "rolling out over the next few weeks right here" ...just wondering what it will be. perhaps some kind of bonus disc. but don´t think so.
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How about the missing tracks from 5/22? There's eight (and great) songs not included on Dick's Picks 3. If ever there's a time to officially complete this performance....(3/24/90 sure appreciates this notion) Although perhaps this disrupts the complete concert flow. Anyways, one more month to go
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My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. I went through that process about a year and half ago. It's not easy... in fact it was one of the toughest things I've ever had to do... but all you can do is take it one day at a time and be there for her, make her as comfortable as possible... and show her MUCH love. God Bless and keep you, my friend.
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@Mustin321My point exactly. Seems like they wasted very little time on that one. As for Jack-A-Roe, I prefer the less-slick-mo'-folk versions from the Brent-era. These (electric) versions have more pronounced folk accent, like the ones from the anniversary shows. Am I the only one?
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Too early to speculate on next year's Big Box? What the heck... You can't get more "just exactly perfect" than May '77, so I think we'll see the polar opposite next time: warts-and-all experimental beauty circa long-lost '85. Maybe not even complete shows (as few from that era were consistently spectacular start-to-finish), but mid-80's nonetheless. Just a feeling..!
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16 years 10 months
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Pick a venue and put out all shows played there over the career of the Dead(excepting previously released shows).
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13 years 10 months
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An MSG box set would fit very well. I think Bob refereed to the area from Philly through Jersey, New York City and Long island as the Dead Belt. Maybe a Dead Belt box set? Yet, come to think of it, that would be much, much bigger than Europe 72. That is too big of a project. The 1980s need box set.
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I've had St. Louis and Tuscaloosa on tape for quite some time. (Duh). Have never heard St. Paul or the Chicago shows. Excited. St. Louis was a pretty incredible show if my mind serves me correctly. I need to dust that one off.
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