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    "When we began discussing audio projects to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Grateful Dead back in 2012, we knew we wanted to do something completely unprecedented. We could think of nothing more exciting or ambitious than a career-spanning overview of the band's live legacy focused on what best tells the story: complete concerts. Our first criterion was the very best live music to represent any given year in the band’s history. We wanted to make sure that there were not only the tent-pole shows that fans have been demanding for decades but also ones that are slightly more under the radar, but equally excellent. For those who listen to the entire box straight through, chronologically, the narrative of the Grateful Dead's live legacy will be seen as second to none in the pantheon of music history." - David Lemieux

    We are more than pleased to announce the Grateful Dead's most ambitious release ever: 30 TRIPS AROUND THE SUN. Available as both an 80-disc boxed set and a custom lightning-bolt USB drive, the collection includes 30 unreleased live shows, one for each year the band was together from 1966 to 1995, along with one track from their earliest recording sessions in 1965. Packed with over 73 hours of music, both the boxed set and the USB drive will be individually numbered limited editions.

    The 80-disc boxed set is individually numbered and limited to 6,500 copies, a nod to the band’s formation in 1965. Along with the CDs, it also includes a gold-colored 7-inch vinyl single which bookends the band’s career. The A-side is “Caution (Do Not Stop On Tracks)” from the band’s earliest recording session in 1965 with the B-side of the last song the band ever performed together live, “Box Of Rain” recorded during their final encore at Soldier Field in Chicago on July 9, 1995.

    The box also comes with a 288-page book that features an extensive, career-spanning essay written by Nick Meriwether, who oversees the Dead archives at the University of California, Santa Cruz, along with special remembrances of the band submitted by fans. Also included is a scroll that offers a visual representation of how the band’s live repertoire has evolved through the years.

    The USB drive version* will be shaped like a gold lightning bolt with the Grateful Dead 50th anniversary logo engraved on the side. The drive includes all of the music from the collection in both FLAC (96/24) and MP3 formats and is an individually numbered limited edition of 1,000 copies. Digital version of the book also included on USB.

    Shows will NOT be sold individually on CD. This release is sure to sell out quickly so pre-order your copy today and stick around as we will be revealing a mighty fine selection of music, art, and much, much more right here.

    (Looking for a smaller 50th Anniversary commemorative keepsake? September 18th will see the release of a four-CD version of the collection titled 30 TRIPS AROUND THE SUN: THE DEFINITIVE LIVE STORY 1965-1995. More on that here.)

    ROLLINGSTONE.COM SONG PREMIERE AND EXCLUSIVE DAVID LEMIEUX INTERVIEW
    Head on over to Rollingstone.com for the very first listen of "Morning Dew" 9/18/87 Madison Square Garden, David Fricke's exclusive interview with archivist David Lemieux, and the reveal of 30 TRIPS AROUND THE SUN's '69 and '84 shows.

    *Helpful hints for using your USB:

    Running the 30 Trips Player / Reader program:
    On Windows – Navigate to the USB drive and double click the PCStart.exe file to run.
    On MacOS – Open the GD 30 Trips drive, and double click the MacStart to run.

    Viewing the digital book:
    You can either view it within the program that comes on the drive, or by opening the PDF directly.

    To view the PDF, open the PDF folder on the drive and the USB_bk_spreads_08-31 file within. Selecting the option within your PDF reading application to view as a “single page” might be preferable to viewing as a continuous document.

    Importing music into iTunes and other library programs:
    When you import the songs from the USB into your library, the information used to identify the track will likely leave them sorted incorrectly. Please use the song list found here to re-number the songs for each show so that they playback in the correct order.
    PDF
    Text

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  • sfrank115
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    Sweeeeeet
    Pretty awesome radio show.
  • uv1
    Joined:
    Let there be songs to fill the air!
    Thanks for that link @frankparry. Can't say I'm impressed with the design of the 4-CD box, but I'll bet the 80-disc box will be awesome. And what a monster it'll have to be. Just look at 80 CD's in your collection and see how much space they take up! I'm betting there will be a cardboard slipcase for each show. Or maybe it'll be in the style of a book. It looks like that's what they went for with the 4-disc set. If that's the case, it may be hard for folks to sell off single shows as we've seen on this board and on eBay. Besides which, I think the idea of breaking up the box defeats the vision that Dave had: i.e. taking in the 30-year journey that was the life of the Grateful Dead. So if you're someone who loves the 70's Dead, this may be an opportunity to have some later era music in your collection. And if you're an 80's/90's lover, then this is the chance to go back a bit further. My story is this: I started listening to the Grateful Dead with the album "Without A Net," so Brent has always sounded great to me. I never did get to see Brent, though. I saw the Dead 4 times -- 3 in '91 and once in '93. I was at the 2 MSG shows before the 9/10/91 show in the box. Then I stopped listening for years. It wasn't until my son was born 3-1/2 years ago that I started listening again. Man, I was HOOKED! I tracked down every Road Trips and Bonus Disc over the next year, and then started in on the Dave's Picks and newer box sets as they came out. Despite my expanding collection, I was still pretty stuck in the late 80's and early 90's. But I slowly worked my way backwards. '77 and '74 offered ample rewards for my listening, but earlier than that was a little too much for me. Kinda raw at times. And Pigpen took some getting used to. So it took me a while to get into '72 and all that the European tour has going for it. Now I can dig it. On the other side of the Dead's career, I shied away from post '91 stuff. Without Hornsby, what magic did the band still have up their sleeves? Then I pulled out th '93 Cal Expo Road Trips this year. I've gotta tell you, it's good. Way better than I thought it should be. So when I first saw this box set, I thought, "Way too expensive," and "Too much stuff that I don't want." But the more I thought about it, the more excited I became to hear those shows from years I had shied away from - pre '72 and post '91. I think the box will be an amazing opportunity to experience the full scope of what the Grateful Dead's music was. Thanks for reading. Reach out your hand If your cup is empty If your cup is full May it be again
  • floridabobaloo
    Joined:
    Time being short
    I came up with a rather new twist. Listening to an entire show sometimes just isn't possible, so what I've done is to select one disc from a set and create a mix up. Yesterday I started with some 73 and jumped to 90 then back to 72, etc. kinda works with the 50th concept. I have SO much Dead now, I might be able to only enjoy 1 complete show in a day and that would take a while to go thru all of it. So this approach is in play. I'm also rotating in terms of sets too. First sets and then Second.It gives me a broad palate to draw from and lots of years to combine into one big groove for the day. I've read were some folks wouldn't try this, but it's working in the summer heat so far! Enjoy yourselves!
  • JimInMD
    Joined:
    Change
    There's some good insight into some of the music that influenced Jerry and some of the directions he wanted to explore or did not in the following March '78 JGB interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya2Vv1zcGmY It gives some background on the edgier, harder feel the music took on at that time. There's an interesting piece about new wave and punk that starts about 29 min in. Very interesting stuff.. if you had the same conversation say in '72 or '73, Its very likely names like Django Reinhardt, Ornette Coleman, Miles Davis and the like might just pop up. At one point Garcia states, "I like Cheap Trick." A musical Omnivore he was.. 35 min in he speaks highly of the Who and Townsend but says its a drag to do the same show '4 years in a row. Change and reinvention is a part of the golden thread this tapestry is woven from. Anyway, more food for thought. The only thing constant in this world is change.
  • ToddWCorey70
    Joined:
    Keith
    Unfortunately, when I think of Keith's later playing, I invariably think of the Cornell Fire. His blocky repetitive chords are just a sin, and almost ruin this amazing song for me. Give me his early stuff any day, the man was fantastic!
  • frankparry
    Joined:
    Box Design
    I'm not sure if this has been posted before but the British magazine Uncut has a picture of the 4CD version of 30 Trips box and a description and link to Viola Lee Blues: http://www.uncut.co.uk/news/grateful-dead-exclusive-hear-an-unreleased-…
  • MrHeartbreak
    Joined:
    @Thin
    "But I think some of the reason he began to decline is the band's '78 swerve into louder, fuzzier, raunchier tones and electric rock 'n roll (vs the ragtime band). When Keith joined in 1971 it was a 1-drummer band and by '73 they were playing light, loose and ragtime/jazzy. But suddenly in '78 they were in full beast mode and a piano doesn't really fit into a raging 2-drummer band easily - must have been frustrating for him." Excellent post, Thin. I never articulated this correctly, and I think you are right. Since we were talking about the "non-factor" issue (and I'd never actually noticed anything BAD before, like the 12/31/78 bad chord), I decided to check out a couple songs from the famous 5/8/77 gig. After all, we all know that show, right? I dialed up Estimated Prophet in the car, and listened for what Keith was doing. Now, granted, I'm cruising down the road in 93-degree Florida heat, so the AC is cranked to the max, but let me just say: during the first 3 minutes or so that I road-tested that song, I did not hear Keith...at all. I could hear everybody else: Phil, Jerry, Bobby, Mickey & Billy. I skipped ahead to Morning Dew, and I heard a little bit of tinkling piano during the first few minutes...nothing bad, but nothing remarkable. Sounded low in the mix, too...very low. Maybe they really did turn his volume down overall? No idea. For contrast, I listened to a Yes show from the same basic era, '78. Rick Wakeman on keyboards. Now, it's not a fair comparison, I know: different band, different style. But I'll tell you what: those keyboards were prominent, I mean PROMINENT, in the mix. All over the place. So maybe it wasn't just drugs, passivity, or whatnot. Maybe he really was mixed intentionally low by the latter years of the Godchauxs' tenure.
  • estimated-eyes
    Joined:
    12/31/78
    I always liked this show, but Keith is a non-factor and he really blows it toward the end of Good Lovin'-- when the rest of the band stops at one point, Keith hits a big chord. That is one of the worst obvious errors I have heard in all my GD listening, way worse than any vocal flubs they regularly made. Re: Beware Mr. Baker and the Clapton comment, in the movie they talk about Ginger's style a lot and that he was really a jazz drummer thrust into a rock and roll band. Clapton's comment, I think he was more appalled by the comparison to Bonham, you can hear him say, "no, no, Zep..." and then he catches himself before being caught on camera bashing LZ. Ginger could swing, hit 'em hard and provide some world beats, too. I like Keith Moon a lot and find his drumming amazing in his prime. This documentary gave me a better appreciation of Ginger Baker's talents-- in spite of the fact that he is absolutely insane.
  • Thin
    Joined:
    Keith "going through Jerry's briefcase"???
    Rdevil - Can you clarify what is meant by "Keith going through Jerry's briefcase may have been his biggest sin"??? Do you mean he was actually busted rifling through his stuff/stealing Jerry's stash, or was that just a euphemism for "he was doing the same, err…, recreational stuff as Jerry and it had a very negative effect"? I do recall a story from one book where someone had stolen Jerry's stash from his briefcase and he started VERY indiscreetly confronting people "Who took my bindle!" Maybe these stories are related (though probably not - made me think of it though…) I'm mildly uncomfortable that this is getting into unsavory gossip, but I'm hitting "send" anyway...
  • Kayak Guy
    Joined:
    Keith vs Mickey
    What an interesting take that I never thought about before, it's Mickey's fault ;) It does stand the basic logic test of jazz based piano players were considered part of the rhythm section and the addition of a 2nd drummer would leave less space for Keith in the mix, where as syths, cheesey keyboards and organ would occupy a different spot in a 2 drummer line up. things to listen for in the future. Billy's new book has also given me lots to listen for and highly recommended for his point of view from the drummers seat on the mood/drug consumption of the periods. Jerry seems to be one of the few junkies that could still play well far longer than most of the people around him and even though it became a problem, they let it continue as the money became everyone's drug of choice at the end. meanwhile Weather Report suite from 9/12/73 SBD just shuffled on and Keith is sounding great, too bad theres a bunch of horns soloing where Jerry should be playing and it sounds like a flock of waterfowl having an orgy.
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"When we began discussing audio projects to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Grateful Dead back in 2012, we knew we wanted to do something completely unprecedented. We could think of nothing more exciting or ambitious than a career-spanning overview of the band's live legacy focused on what best tells the story: complete concerts. Our first criterion was the very best live music to represent any given year in the band’s history. We wanted to make sure that there were not only the tent-pole shows that fans have been demanding for decades but also ones that are slightly more under the radar, but equally excellent. For those who listen to the entire box straight through, chronologically, the narrative of the Grateful Dead's live legacy will be seen as second to none in the pantheon of music history." - David Lemieux

We are more than pleased to announce the Grateful Dead's most ambitious release ever: 30 TRIPS AROUND THE SUN. Available as both an 80-disc boxed set and a custom lightning-bolt USB drive, the collection includes 30 unreleased live shows, one for each year the band was together from 1966 to 1995, along with one track from their earliest recording sessions in 1965. Packed with over 73 hours of music, both the boxed set and the USB drive will be individually numbered limited editions.

The 80-disc boxed set is individually numbered and limited to 6,500 copies, a nod to the band’s formation in 1965. Along with the CDs, it also includes a gold-colored 7-inch vinyl single which bookends the band’s career. The A-side is “Caution (Do Not Stop On Tracks)” from the band’s earliest recording session in 1965 with the B-side of the last song the band ever performed together live, “Box Of Rain” recorded during their final encore at Soldier Field in Chicago on July 9, 1995.

The box also comes with a 288-page book that features an extensive, career-spanning essay written by Nick Meriwether, who oversees the Dead archives at the University of California, Santa Cruz, along with special remembrances of the band submitted by fans. Also included is a scroll that offers a visual representation of how the band’s live repertoire has evolved through the years.

The USB drive version* will be shaped like a gold lightning bolt with the Grateful Dead 50th anniversary logo engraved on the side. The drive includes all of the music from the collection in both FLAC (96/24) and MP3 formats and is an individually numbered limited edition of 1,000 copies. Digital version of the book also included on USB.

Shows will NOT be sold individually on CD. This release is sure to sell out quickly so pre-order your copy today and stick around as we will be revealing a mighty fine selection of music, art, and much, much more right here.

(Looking for a smaller 50th Anniversary commemorative keepsake? September 18th will see the release of a four-CD version of the collection titled 30 TRIPS AROUND THE SUN: THE DEFINITIVE LIVE STORY 1965-1995. More on that here.)

ROLLINGSTONE.COM SONG PREMIERE AND EXCLUSIVE DAVID LEMIEUX INTERVIEW
Head on over to Rollingstone.com for the very first listen of "Morning Dew" 9/18/87 Madison Square Garden, David Fricke's exclusive interview with archivist David Lemieux, and the reveal of 30 TRIPS AROUND THE SUN's '69 and '84 shows.

*Helpful hints for using your USB:

Running the 30 Trips Player / Reader program:
On Windows – Navigate to the USB drive and double click the PCStart.exe file to run.
On MacOS – Open the GD 30 Trips drive, and double click the MacStart to run.

Viewing the digital book:
You can either view it within the program that comes on the drive, or by opening the PDF directly.

To view the PDF, open the PDF folder on the drive and the USB_bk_spreads_08-31 file within. Selecting the option within your PDF reading application to view as a “single page” might be preferable to viewing as a continuous document.

Importing music into iTunes and other library programs:
When you import the songs from the USB into your library, the information used to identify the track will likely leave them sorted incorrectly. Please use the song list found here to re-number the songs for each show so that they playback in the correct order.
PDF
Text

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OK - get em while you can...pm me. ANY ten shows of your choice from the box for $500US (including shipping from Australia) - sent the second I get the box...hope this helps some heads out - first come first served...
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there's another secondary market known as bit-torrent at which everything's available. why get riled up about any re-selling? everybody makes the choices they can live with. and if there's one thing in the debate that I find hard to take, it's imputing any sort of opinion to Jerry or the rest of the band. It's all speculative at this point, based on extrapolating comments from more than 20 years ago. this is where we are now - be grateful for the new product, or simply don't buy it and don't begrudge those that choose to.
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Certainly, some people (maybe not you) have made indictments of re-sellers on here (i.e. low class, etc). My post was reaction to those types of comments. If you choose not to resell, that's fine, but the point I'm making with respect to folks who have been critical of re-sellers is 1) don't think you're living out some idealistic crusade that aligns you with the Grateful Dead - that's a fantasy - and 2) you're being a bit hypocritical if you levy judgment against the middle class CD re-seller and not the Grateful Dead themselves. And if those same people own so much as one copy of an official release that was burned on a computer, then really, no need to pose on here as an agent of justice.
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So, I've had the same hi-fi system for the past 20 years, but I'm finally going to be buying a new one next month (wife will be taking my old one to her shop), and this is what I've pretty much decided on... Rotel RA-1570 Integrated Amp http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/rotel-ra-1570-review/ Marantz CD6005 CD Player http://www.whathifi.com/marantz/cd6005/review B&W 685 S2 Speakers http://www.whathifi.com/bw/685-s2/review Yes, I'm old school and will be playing actual CDs rather than so-called "HD" files ;)
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Thank You LoveJerry for saying it so succinctly.But please allow me to add my 2 cents too. I'm a long time DeadHead (60's) and a lower class bloke who struggles to make ends meet on a monthly basis. I buy & re-sell ANYTHING i can get my hands on. I'm also a music junkie with a massive collection but i still want almost every box set released by anybody & everybody. If that means buying doubles to resell later then i do it without thinking twice. I'm well aware of the 'going rates' and never try to gouge - just a little extra to help me along. I have no qualms about violating the Dead community's supposed 'moral code'. I've supported the band by buying tickets to hundreds of shows and almost every record & CD release. I've supported local communities with lodging, gas & eats etc. And if i yard sale and find a signed First Edition Alan Ginsberg for $5, then resell for $100, have i somehow offended the Beat community unspoken moral code? If i find a very cheap signed George Reeves/Superman collectible and resell for 1000% profit have i somehow offended the Nerd/Geek community? My point is: nothing is sacred, not even the Grateful Dead and it's product line. Even bibles are bought & sold for profit! The Grateful Dead are not immune to market forces, and the massive amount of resellers, and buyers, proves it. I sincerely hope that none of you who look down us ever find yourself in a situation where you need to make a choice between selling your goodies or paying the hospital bill, car payment, mortgage, tuition etc etc. May the Music be with you...
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Anyone can sell any CD that they own. The point of my earlier post was simply that dead.net will surely have the music available for sale as a download, and unless one strongly desires the physical CD from the box, there is absolutely no point in paying over retail. In other words, outside of the "collectible" object (for those persons interested in objects), the so-called secondary market (what I call scalpers) offer nothing of value. Here is a concrete example. I am thinking about the May 1977 set. on eBay, there are merchants selling the physical CDs for hundreds of dollars (double and triple the original price). Here at dead.net, the identical music is available as a download for $99, that is less than the original price of the CD box. If I decide I want it (not sure, I have Winterland 1977), for $99 plus $15 of blank CDs I will have the same music that the scalpers are offering for multiples of the original price. Obviously I will buy the download version. It is a matter of education. I am simply putting out the fact that unless one is fixed on having the pretty box, the music will be available in pristine form from dead.net in due course, and therefore no one should feel that they are going to miss anything of substance if they pass on the scalper box sets. Unless they want the pretty box. In that case, they are the scalper's customers. But it should be with an awareness that there will be a more fairly priced alternative. As a footnote, the Dead (Rhino, the producer, the engineers, etc.) have earned every penny that they make from this by creating, mixing, mastering and producing the music. The scalpers add nothing of value.
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....once those who didn't buy it SEE it...they'll want the box to rule them all...my preciousssssssss.....
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which is why I ordered the pretty box. There's just something about the official release, trappings and all, that adds a certain something. I imagine I'm not alone, else this box set would not be *almost* sold out before release. Also, Ziffle, your point was not merely one of "education" as to buyer options, so let's not pretend otherwise. At least be honest about what you said; when you make a statement calling resellers "vulgar" and implying they are not "moral" (your words), you have drawn a line. Own up to what you've said, and either defend it or retract it. Because if we can't stand by our statements, then how can we expect others to take our positions seriously?
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go on Ziffle......press buy.....
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dantian, I definitely believe that scalping the boxes is vulgar. Buy one for yourself, and give everyone else a chance to save up and purchase their own. Your criticism on the education point is also a mistake. I, for one, did not until recently learn that many of the sets and CDs are available to purchase as downloads. I am trying to introduce into the conversation the fact that when the CD boxes sell out, it is not the end of the story. This isn't like Fillmore 1969, dead.net has explicitly left the door open for downloads, and they surely will, as has been the case with the other recent sets. If you are into the objects, then more power to you, but leave room for guy or gal that needs a little more time to raise the cash. Not very nice for people to buy them up and hold up others for profit, unearned. Personally, I bought the USB set.
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If you can find it.....DJ Miles-Funky Sole Vol. 1Get Some :) ...something you need! Fills time before touchdown too.... :)
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Thanks for clarifying your position, you make some valid points.Honestly I don't think we disagree as I've participated in the used market by being a buyer. And certainly my beliefs aren't connected to the Dead as I've always sold any extra concert tickets at face value regardless of the band. I do hope that this set (and all others) gets released as digital down loads once the physical ones have sold out. (It does sound like that will happen) I get the need for limited runs on the physical side and that can create its own collectibles market but a digital option would be nice. I just feel people who miss out on a limited release should have a reasonable alternative to the 2nd hand marketplace. I don't see how that would hurt Rhino or The Dead if they don't sell the down loads until after the physical ones have sold out. Seems to me that would create the fairest market place for everyone.
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I think your anger is a bit misdirected. After all, it's the Grateful Dead/Rhino team that has made all these box sets 'Limited Editions' and thus created the flourishing resale market. Your enmity is getting old.
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To each their own. I want the physical box, maybe others prefer downloads, but that's not really the point, is it. Personally, I think the USB is a waste of money, but hey, I hope you enjoy it. But while you are chastising me for "being into objects" you might want to consider that the USB you ordered is also an object. I guess we're both into objects then, huh. And let's be real here for a minute: When faced with opposition to your original post, you stated that, "It is a matter of education. I am simply putting out the fact that unless one is fixed on having the pretty box, the music will be available in pristine form from dead.net in due course..." as if that was the main point of your earlier post. But "education" was not really the main point you were making, was it? The theme of your original post was the vulgar scalpers, wasn't it. Sure seemed that way. I'm glad that you have owned up to the "vulgar" comment, by the way. If that is what you believe, then that's fine. I may or may not agree with you, but I'll certainly defend your right to your opinion. Just take ownership of it. It was your obfuscation of your original point that I was objecting to. I find it annoying when people pretend they didn't say what they said.
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One Box Left !
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I think Terrapin Limited was 2-track. The Warlocks box is multi-track and not on the previous lists, but sounds awful to me. On a side note, I don't think "a large percentage" of any release goes to re-sellers. It may be trending upward, but I'll bet it's still less than 1%. I don't think it's worth worrying about. Folks who miss the boat or can't afford it on release day typically pay a premium later. I've done it. Also, it's not difficult to find any show for free if you just can't live without it and can't afford to buy it with the fancy packaging.
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Going Going Gone! Fare Thee Well is having a Labor Day sale - $45 T's now $30. I was wondering if they'll be putting out a 50th anniversary three show box every year ala Winterland boxes to keep this celebration going for the next thirty years. If not a box, then maybe a show??? Thinking about it, they could do two - a 25th and a 50th minibox a year for the next 15 years. Start with 1966 and 1981 and you'd keep all camps happy, except for Doc, you'd have to do a 1971 show of the month club ;)
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It may not be Grateful Dead shows but virtually every one but the desperately poor has something they liketo ccollect. Like FZ said don't kid yourselves you're all wearing uniforms so keep the stones to yourself
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10 days until BOXZILLA ships. GDTRFB 4/23/77
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I was glad to see that the physical box sold out and the USB stick was still available. It proves a point. People are not fooled by the move to HD files which is just the music industry trying to sell you something that they can make redundant/update at any time and which costs them very little if anything to produce. Physical product will be around for a long time and player will be available even if just to satisfy the second hand market for billions of CDs. To prove a point you can still buy new phonograph cylinders if you really want. I was in the local Hi Fi store and some Hi Fi nerd was trying to convince me I didn't need a physical format just a bunch of files on a PC. A physical product means I can be guaranteed playback in 10 years plus of course it has a second hand value. Don't be fooled by those who want you to buy transient fluff... they are rubbing their hands with glee at the thought. I'd buy the skull flash USB though...neat item. ..but not for hundreds of dollars and of course the last thing they want you to do is put take files off your CD's and put them on a USB.
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I don't remember the prices being that high during the event.. They must have jacked them up and then offered a sale
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I feel the same way as you as to which I prefer to own. I don't know how old you are but literally no one under 30 or even 35 bothers with cds. We may not like it but it's a fact they do downloads and Sirius and streaming. The only physical some bother with is the resurgence in vinyl. Too be honest not sure how long that will last. And yeah due to the nature of my job I interact with hundreds of that demographic
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I would argue nobody 'owns' a file. That's why the industry was so keen on downloads. Streaming is in effect on demand radio. CDs are seen as a carrier for a file with no physical merit. Same with hard back books (v paper backs or even e book readers). There is no lack of demand for second hand vinyl CDs or books though particularly if rare. Vinyl in particular continues to rise in value reaching investment levels. I fear that its gradually becoming a hobby for the rich. Either way from a purely economic perspective a physical product has a resale value...and that in addition to the aesthetic appeal of a physical object wins hands down for me. I may need the money one day.
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Lets not kid ourselves. Great to see new product but this isn't the Dead Community giving us this stuff. I spoke to Dennis McNally when he was alive not long after the Dead sold to Rhino. His exact words were "The Grateful Dead are no more. They sold everything to 'the suits' "
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Last one it seems.
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It was 30 years ago this morning I completed my first ride on the Terrapin Trailways Bus. I got on board after the final Red Rocks show and disembarked outside of Santa Fe to hitch-hike home, "up to Taos". Norman and Sandy who own the bus are some of the finest Dead-Heads in the history of the band.
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Ziffle, my frequent reading of GDM comment threads has made it very hard to listen to Dead music. I suggest you stay away from these threads before they infect your enjoyment of the music. As for myself, I am not buying this box and I still haven't decided if I will get a Dave's2016 sub. Reselling at raised prices is the EXACT definition of scalping. The Denying or spinning that is a reflection of the sort of people who are frequent commenters here. That MacNally quote about the Dead selling to the suits applies here: lots of "suits" right here. As for the limited edition plan and reselling being lauded as "good business" and in no way a "slap in the face to Deadheads": the idea that a "large percentage" of a limited release will be scalped means that a large percentage of the small number of Deadheads that are granted the privilege of having the release will have to pay scalper prices. And the scalpers and GDM get fat. Dance and shake your bones kids, you ARE on your own! Sometimes when I listen to the Dead now I see Trump and Cheney dancing out of the corner of my eye and the music dies for me. "Good business"?!? In The Dark and the 87-95 period tours were "good business". That Wall Of Sound/Round Records period was bad business. Choose your listening accordingly. I hope GDM starts releasing it's limited editions through EBay. They have proved the bidding-up-market on these things is there. It would be good business! I guess I can stop now...
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David Lemieux and Jeffrey Norman are not suits. Please refrain from any bashing of the guys and gals who tirelessly put this shit out. If you wanna talk about Round Records taking over for Rhino and why, fine, but leave the true deadheads out of it. The balls on some of you guys.
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Your logic is specious and presentation juvenile. So you buy a print by Dylan and later sell it for a profit ...you're a scalper? Think you need some econ 101
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I think you mean to attribute that comment to Lavatla, not McNally? McNally is still alive. The Grateful Dead haven't "sold" anything to anybody. They've made some licensing agreements. It's widely reported in the media that the Rhino executive who was initially put in charge of GD releases, and is now the president of the company, is a longtime DeadHead. That's why we're getting releases of this size, nature and frequency - it's not some sort of corporate money-grab - It's individuals who are fans first and foremost who happen to also be in a decision-making position that have the balls to stand up in a boardroom saying "let's do this".
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I'm not too keen on that idea when it comes to all things Grateful Dead.. I can find other ways to make a buck.. But if that is what pays the bills then just realize it won't last forever and eventually prices will be raised by the company that does all the hard work because they see Average Joes cashing in.. Keep the prices where they are at People..
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Understand it but won't use it. I suppose Jesus should have auctioned off the wine and fish. What a Commie Hippy he was! The people who got me in to The Dead were anti-Capitalust Hippies. They aren't on these boards. I generally don't talk to you people, but Ziffle's post was a light in the darkness of SS71 and MM posts. When he got jumped on I would not let him stand alone. The modern equivalent of the parking lot party is Live Music Archive and the torrent world. Long may they run!
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No......You buy a print of Dylan because you want to hang it on your fucking wall.
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So... I just want to clarify... Because I wear a suit to work every day, does that make me a "suit"? Or can I still be a "real Deadhead"? I wasn't aware until now that the two might be mutually exclusive.
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To quote Robert Downey, Jr.'s character in Tropic Thunder... "What do you mean, 'you people'"?
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The past month or so things have been very friendly here on this board but all of a sudden things are getting ugly. Guess it has to do with the fact that Boxzilla will soon hit the mail. Let me say right up front that I certainly cannot afford this box, but that did not stop me from purchasing it. I knew that if I did not, I would never be happy with that decision. Sometimes you just have to go for it. The box has now been on sale for a bit over three months. Every one who wanted to get one, certainly had the time to do so. That is 3 months to save up the dough If you did not / could not buy it for whatever reason, now is no the time to sling mud on those who did purchase it. Reselling of any item, be it music or not, has been going on forever and will continue to do so. That is the fact of the matter. It is not wrong. I have bought cds from secondary markets. The price may have been inflated, but I chose to buy. Nobody held a gun to my head. I have also sold cds on ebay. Again, I forced no one to buy them. If someone wanted it, good. If not, then it was up to me to lower the price or to just shelve it. Calling resellers by derogatory names is not right. If you don't want to deal with them, don't! Real simple. If I was going to buy a used car, and it was too expensive, whose at fault? Live & let live. But can't we remain civil about it? Rock on
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It's really not clear to me. So I ask. Who's worse then? If all this capitalism and profiting and scalping and selling what's best when free ala archive is such a moral problem... Who's worse? The people buying the releases? The people re-selling some tiny fraction of them? Or is the people who are producing and selling them in the first place, limiting them, hyping them, making them into something "physical" (ugh!) in the first place? Or maybe that's all just splitting hairs to our armchair moralists? "Who's worse? -- You're all awful." Is that it? A guy to whom people once paid some attention (and some money!) said: "If you don't have a ticket, please don't come." But that would be a pretty awful thing to say too I guess, judging by the moral barometer I think I discern in some of these posts.
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The last time I checked, Dennis McNally was still very much alive.
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Why is it we like vinyl? I mean, its a pain in the ass in all honesty. You need to have the record, a good needle, good amplifier, and nice sized speakers (or good headphones). Then, the more you listen to the record, the more the grooves become stripped (which produces the crackling sound). SO, I ask again, why do we listen to vinyl? Because it has better acoustics than CDs. The dynamic sound range of a record will blow CD sound out of the water. If records sounds fantastic, and CDs sound really good, is there a middle ground? Yes - those HD files that everybody is second guessing. Yes, you can't resell the HD files on the secondary market, and if you don't have the right HD players like PONO of FIIO X1, X3, or X5, or maybe a DAC for your computer - then those files are worthless. BUT, for $100 plus a microSD card, you can easily get a FIIO X1 player from amazon, and drag and drop those HD files on it, and listen to all the shows in any car that has a AUX port or while you're riding a bike, kayaking, running, or riding the train to work. I know nyquist theorem states that our ear can't hear the hi-res sounds (http://www.wescottdesign.com/articles/Sampling/sampling.pdf) - but I challenge anyone on this site or forum to walk into a music store that sells the PONO player and allows you to hear its quality with Sennheisers 598HD headphones and tell me that doesn't sound different. I listen to Dead shows everyday, and I have both the 24bit and CD box set for Spring Too 1990. Having done blind testing, I guessed correctly which one was higher quality more than 75% of the time. Now, given, I am crazy - my wife can't always tell the difference - but I can. I am 36 years old, and want the best quality with the most convenience, and that is what the HD files are for me. I'm not thinking about selling the shows, or how much they will be worth on the secondary market. I mean, if history tells us anything, those box sets will be worth something in 10 years. I mean, has anyone tried to buy a PureJerry show or View from the Vault soundtracks? They are all out of print, and hard to find. People are selling the Winterland '77 shows on amazon for over $500 bones. The music is there for us to enjoy, and if the shows are mastered in 24bit/96khz then you have my attention. Not because of my age, but because I know I am getting the highest quality available. Also, just to note, most records now are made with the 24bit/192khz digital files. Anyone who bought the 'Wake Up to Find Out' album on RSD got hi-res files on the vinyl format. Here is some more information: http://www.quora.com/Why-are-vinyl-records-considered-to-have-better-au… Don't mean to get too preachy, and I know this may cause some blowback - but this is my opinion. Thanks for listening.
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KYTrips, I don't know if the answers you seek are within this portal, but I (just my opinion) think this is a good place to look:http://www.wavygravy.net HBob: scalper is NOT a derogatory term. From the online OED site: North American informal Sell (a ticket) for a popular event at a price higher than the official one: tickets were scalped for forty times their face value. If you interpret it's use as derogatory, I think that must be your subconscious moral compass talking. Rrot: I think that the limited edition sales model is the root of most of what I find disturbing in the GDM world. I also think it is the engine that allows so many potentially great releases to happen. I wish GDM would find another business model, but I don't know if there is another that will achieve the positive results. The negative results are breaking my heart... And HBob, I agree that these threads are nicer without angry voices of dissent like myself. I generally refrain from expressing myself here and will retreat into my hole again when this kerfuffle winds down.
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Are you the one that has a couple videos up, guitar instruction, like the dont ease me in and iko iko? I ask because your pic looks like the one in the video?
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is often a wondrous, almost mystical experience for me. The music takes me on a journey, a wild carpet ride, and I lose myself in it. I dare say that if you are so caught up in your own politics that you see Trump and Cheney (or even Obama and Hilary) when you listen to the GD, you ain't doing it right.
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Well here is one anti cap! I originally got on the bus because I thought then that the Dead reflected an anti authoritarian, communitarian zeitgeist. I remember the Diggers, I remember all kinds of communitarian experiments, attempts to create a new world in the shell of the old, I remember a couple of years later, another SF band singing we are forces of chaos and anarchy, everything they say we are, we are... I have watched with bemused amusement all the handwringing over the FTW circus, the ticket prices, the pathetic merchandising,but thats what capitalism does, it recuperates every alternative gesture and turns it into its opposite, it turns us into passive consumers,consumers of our own alienation, but still we hang on to the illusion that the Dead are different, that somehow we are part of some community. Some Bozo is laughing all the way to the bank! In the 60s you had the hog farm, now you have 700 dollar box sets and all the little Dead Heads gleefully trying to justify their petit commerce. Ive had enough, Im outta here. Fare thee well indeed.
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I belong to the younger crowd that some have mentioned, and I will take the digital copies all day. It is just so much more convenient. I shoot those puppies in to the iTunes cloud and start a show at work. Headphones on as I walk out to the car, auto bluetooth connect and the show keeps playing in my car. Walk in house and turn on bluetooth radio, the music never stops. It is a seamless listening experience that you simply cannot even come close to with CDs, even if you sit right next to the player the entire time. The alternative is fumbling with discs, having to change them in an out, limited places I can listen, etc. Could I just rip them? I guess, but ripping and tagging 80 or 90 discs takes forever, and my Mac doesn't even have a CD drive. Even still then I just have a box taking up space and collecting dust. I understand wanting something tangible, but it is a tangible pain in the *** compared to popping in a usb drive and waiting a few hours for the upload to finish. One final note, I do believe there are collectors out there who would like to buy a limited edition GD usb at a discounted price.
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I disagree, the dynamic range of an lp or Vinyls as you kiddies call it, is 45 DB, the dynamic range of a CD is over 90. The warmth you feel from analog is the sound of the turntable motor being picked up by the stylus. Don't believe me turn on the Turntable, put on a record and don't put the needle on, turn it up and you are hearing the latent mechanical sound that is underlying the signal from the record. Vinyl is a scam by the labels, who after fighting to ban CD burners in PCs, moved back to vinyl as a distribution method after losing money to people ripping CDs for their friends. About 10 years ago there was a Wall St Journal article on the demise of the labels and CDs, it was about how they wanted to move back to albums because "anyone with a computer can bootleg a CD, but no one has a record press in their basements". That was the day I started buying CDs the day they came out so I wouldn't be stuck with download files. I went through the lp to CD propaganda in the 1980's and CDs are superior to vinyl in dynamic range, if you happen to listen to identical mixes on the same system from an LP or a CD.
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It's the best possible business model. Nothing can be changed to make it both profitable for the record company and the Dead, and to make the releases available in unlimited quantities at normal prices - has to be limited edition for the quantity of shows they're releasing. So they make their money, we get our Grateful Dead. Some people buy more than one copy and resell them on eBay - so what. Everything is legal and moral. Just enjoy the tunes, it's better than none at all. And really, a specific complaint I heard was 500 bucks for 10 shows. 50 bucks isn't that big a mark-up. The CD store near me sells Dick's Picks for 40 - 60 bucks. I mean really, what are we bickering about here. Bunch of malarkey. About the vinyl records - is that right, vinyl records have a wider dynamic range than digital CDs? Why is that the case? Can they not develop the digital platform to have an equal dynamic range?
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