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    marye
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    In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.

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  • Eric Abrahamson
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    Well...
    Thanks, for getting me to the right place; I agree with Mr. Pid and cosmicbadger, lamagonzo, solly Cholly....Look at British physicist Stephen Hawkings' new book, "The Grand Design" about the Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago. I'm an ex-fundie myself, 1972-5, am I sorry! The Stones called two albums ago "A Bigger Bang". Atheists.com.
  • Canyon Critter
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    The Biblical Symbolics of the Grateful Dead
    Hey Jman...I thnk I said that in my best Three Stooges Voice when I read that lol. Anyway, I was just looking at the anotated lyrics of the Grateful Dead site (a wealth of info) on Robert Hunter lyrics and was reading the significance of Biblical references and symbolics within the GD music. Here's the link...thought it was relevant. http://artsites.ucsc.edu/GDead/agdl/miller.html Love is real! ♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥~♥
  • johnman
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    yup
    soitanley
  • cosmicbadger
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    smitten
    so is it possible to love someone while smiting them and exchanging eyes and teeth with them? Maybe it is. I guess that's what makes the Old Testament a bit of a challenge for Christians? Great stories, but all a bit brutal. Maybe even the Greatest Story Ever Told.
  • johnman
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    i think
    the Christian doctrine says...love thy enemy........ do it not?
  • Mr. Pid
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    Smiting
    your enemies in the name of your god seems to be an all too common thread among religions, unfortunately. The very second you attempt to require that others believe as you do is when the legitimacy of your right to believe as you do ceases. By all means, believe in any god you want to, feel free to live by any rules dictated by that god so long as they apply only to you, just don't expect anyone else to. Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
  • ripple70
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    old teastament role play
    interesting need to check this out before i comment although im pulled towards explotation lol
  • cosmicbadger
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    Old Testament Role Play
    Bible enthusiasts can now adopt a character from the Old Testament and smite their enemies in an online game! http://thebible-onlinegame.com/ education, exploitation, spiritual quest or just a bit of fun?
  • tphokie1
    Joined:
    Thanks for the post!
    I've been hearing the Bible in Dead songs for years. I once delivered a reflection at church where I used Eyes of the World to help tell the story of Jesus' healing of the blind man. My personal feeling is that some of the references are not necessarily intentional but I think others are. I have felt for some time that both Barlow and Hunter know the Bible pretty darn well! I'm not suggesting that the guys were necessarily trying to teach Christian dogma but they were expressing some universal truths that many can identify with on some level. The interesting thing is that Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, agnostics and atheists have all been moved by this music!
  • marye
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    posted by Stephen Spanger
    in the wrong topic and moved here. Here is a document called The Gospel According to the Grateful Dead (by David Smith of wisedyes.com - check out his awesome tie dyes). It creatively seeks to explain the Gospel message of Jesus using Grateful Dead song lyrics and Scripture! I'm not sure that Hunter, Garcia, Weir, Barlow, and the Grateful Dead intentionally wrote lyrics with the Bible in mind. However, there's no denying that God is sovereign and in complete control and that there are Biblical principles and themes in some of their lyrics. I have spent my life, seeking all that’s left unsung, Bent my ear to hear the tune, And closed my eyes to see ~Attics of My Life We’re all looking for answers. We all want to know the truth. Sometimes it seems within our grasp, and then it slips away. Sometimes the light’s all shining on me, Other times I can barely see, Lately it occurs to me, What a long strange trip it’s been ~Truckin’ But the truth does exist. Love is real. It is the most powerful force in the universe. And while we are seeking Love, Love is seeking us. Love desires to reveal itself to us. Let us be open to that love. Once in awhile you get shown the Light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right ~Scarlet Begonias God is love. God is truth. God knows you intimately and wants you to know Him. He wants to commune with you now, right where you are. Through dreams, visions, prophecy, and other forms of inspiration God has spoken to countless people over the centuries. The concept of a supreme God has existed for centuries in hundreds of cultures throughout the world. In fact, He may have already been speaking to you. Through the words and music of Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia and John Barlow/Bob Weir the God of all creation has planted his Word. Listen carefully to what has been said. If my words did glow, with the gold of sunshine, And my tunes were played on the harp unstrung, Would you hear my voice come through the music, would you hold it near, as if it were you own? ~Ripple Can’t you hear God’s voice pleading with you to be heard? Listen. These are living words! Open you heart. What’s to be found, racing around, You carry your pain wherever you go. The Black-throated wind, whispering sin, And it speaks of a life that passes like dew ~Black-Throated Wind Some days the gales are howling, Some days the sea is still as glass, You’re a lost sailor, You’ve been too long at sea ~Lost Sailor Without God we’re all lost. We’re like sheep without a shepherd. Was it you I heard singin’ while I was chasing dreams? Driven by the wind, like the dust that blows around, Well, I never know, just don’t know ~Saint of Circumstance Reach out your hand if your cup be empty ~Ripple God is calling you. He loves you more than you can imagine. All the searching can be over. God wants to forgive you and cleanse you and make you whole. You must come to Him and admit your need. Confess your errors to God and trust Him to answer you. I told Althea I was feeling lost, Lacking in some direction ~Althea You’re playing cold music on the barroom floor, drowned in your laughter and dead to the core, If Mercy’s in business, I wish it for you ~Fire on the Mountain But I’ll get back on my feet someday, the good Lord willing, if He says I may, I know that the life I’m living’s no good, I’ll get a new start, live the life I should ~Wharf Rat Maybe you’ll find direction around some corner where it’s been waiting to meet you Believe it if you need it or leave it if you dare ~Box of Rain Only God can fill this void. Without Him we can never be completely whole. Be honest with yourself. Isn’t something missing? Wouldn’t you like to know why you’re here? Wouldn’t you like for your life to have meaning and purpose? God understands. He stands at the door of your heart knocking. Let him in. Receive the Truth. If your cup is full, may it be again ~Ripple Perhaps you’ve been more fortunate. Maybe you’ve already discovered the power of love. What have your placed your faith in? Some folks trust to reason, others trust to might, I don’t trust to nothing , but I know it come out right ~Playin’ in the Band Small wheel turning by the fire and rod, Big wheel turning by the grace of God ~The Wheel Don't you realize how kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Or don't you care? Can't you see how kind he has been in giving you time to turn from your sin? (Romans 2:4) This power that guides all life is more than impersonal energy. This “force” that keeps your life flowing is intimate and personal. It loves you and desires to be loved. Recall all the times you have sensed God’s hand. See here how everything leads up to this day, And its just like any other day that’s every been. ~Black Peter In earlier days He permitted all the nations to go their own ways, but He never left himself without a witness. There were always his reminders, such as sending you rain and good crops and giving you food and joyful hearts. (Acts 14:16-17) Let it be known there is a fountain That was not made by the hands of man There is a road, no simple highway Between the dawn and the dark of night ~Ripple God loves us so much that He became flesh and came down from heaven to live among us. You know the story. Jesus taught us, healed us, and loved us like no other man in all of history. Jesus said He is the fountain. He said He is the road to life. He said “The Father and I are one.” There is no other! “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. For the Scriptures declare that rivers of living water will flow from the heart of those who believe in me.” -Jesus (John 7:38) "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” -Jesus (Matthew 7:13-14) Jesus often referred to God as Father. God is Spirit, and without a physical body. The significance is that God is personal and can be known. He is more than a force or energy. Electricity is a powerful force. Heat is a source of energy. God is merciful, kind, and loving. He hears our prayers and responds. He rejoices when we do well and grieves when we sin. Don’t confuse the Creator with the creation. The incredible beauty and balance of the planet are evidence of a thoughtful and loving Father. What shall we say, shall we call it by a name And listen to the thunder shout I am, I am, I am, I am ~Let it Grow And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.” (Exodus 3:14) Jesus said… "…I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.” (John 6:35) "…I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life." (John 8:12) "…I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.” (John 10:11) "…I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.” (John 11:25) "…I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” (John 14:6) "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last." (Revelation 22:13) "…Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." (John 8:58) In order that we might know God more perfectly, He sent Jesus into this world. As the first born of all creation, He was given all authority over heaven and earth. We therefore must know Jesus if we are to know God fully and completely. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. (John 1:3) For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. (Colossians 1:16) And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.” (Matthew 28:18) And they were astonished at His teaching, for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes. (Mark 1:22) A decision to follow Christ is one you must make alone. Don’t be swayed by the behavior of some other human being. Your wife, your husband, and your friends all must make their own decision. This one is between you and God. And if you go, no one may follow That path is for your steps alone. ~Ripple Now the shore-lights beckon Yeah there's a price for being free. ~Lost Sailor The price for your freedom has already been paid for. It is our pride, our rebellion, our sin that separates us from intimately knowing God. Jesus willingly suffered the agony of the cross to pay for our guilt. If a man among you, got no sin upon his hand Let him cast a stone at me for playing in the band. ~Playing in the Band What is a man Deep down inside But a raging beast With nothing to hide ~Passenger Even the purest of romantics compromise What fixation feeds this fever Am I living truth or rank deceiver ~Victim or the Crime For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And the ransom he paid was not mere gold or silver. He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God. (1 Peter 1:18-19 NLT) Old men sing about their dreams Women laugh and children scream And the band keeps playing on Sun went down in honey And the moon came up in wine You know stars were spinning dizzy Lord the band kept us so busy We forgot about the time ~The Music Never Stopped “In the last days, God said, I will pour out my Spirit upon all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams. In those days I will pour out my Spirit upon all my servants, men and women alike, and they will prophesy. And I will cause wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below- blood and fire and clouds of smoke. The sun will be turned into darkness, and the moon will turn bloodred, before that great and glorious day of the Lord arrives. And anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. “ (Acts 2:17-21 NLT) Shall we go, you and I, while we can? ~Dark Star I got a feelin' there's no time to lose No time to lose ~Saint of Circumstance Please don’t put off this decision to follow and serve Jesus. God loves you and wants you right now – just the way you are! There really is a devil who wants nothing better than for you to postpone this decision. He is a liar and a thief and a murderer. Is there anything a man don't stand to lose When the devil wants to take it all away ~Mexicali Blues And if he catches up with me I'll spend my life in jail ~Friend of the Devil A secret incantation, candle burning blue We'll consult the spirits, maybe they'll know what to do ~I Need A Miracle …For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. (2 Corinthians 11:14) Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1) “For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great miraculous signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones.” -Jesus (Matthew 24:24 NLT) All these trials soon be past Look for something built to last Built to last till time itself falls tumbling from the wall Built to last till sunshine fails and darkness moves on all ~Built to Last “Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will remain forever.” -Jesus (Matthew 24:35 NLT) “If you cling to your life, you will lose it; but if you give it up for me, you will find it.” -Jesus (Matthew 10:39 NLT) "Anyone who listens to my teaching and obeys me is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock. Though the rain comes in torrents and the floodwaters rise and the winds beat against that house, it won't collapse, because it is built on rock. But anyone who hears my teaching and ignores it is foolish, like a person who builds a house on sand. When the rains and floods come and the winds beat against that house, it will fall with a mighty crash." After Jesus finished speaking, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, for he taught as one who had real authority-quite unlike the teachers of religious law. (Matthew 7:24-29) I want to say to my sisters and my brothers Keep the faith When the storm flies and the wind blows Go on at a steady pace When the battle is fought and the victory's won We can all shout together, we have overcome We'll talk to the Father and the Son When we make it to the promised land ~My Sisters and Brothers Those who live in the shelter of the Most High will find rest in the shadow of the Almighty. This I declare of the Lord: He alone is my refuge, my place of safety; he is my God, and I am trusting him. For he will rescue you from every trap and protect you from the fatal plague. He will shield you with his wings. He will shelter you with his feathers. His faithful promises are your armor and protection. Do not be afraid of the terrors of the night, nor fear the dangers of the day, nor dread the plague that stalks in darkness, nor the disaster that strikes at midday. Though a thousand fall at your side, though ten thousand are dying around you, these evils will not touch you. But you will see it with your eyes; you will see how the wicked are punished. If you make the Lord your refuge, if you make the Most High your shelter, no evil will conquer you; no plague will come near your dwelling. For he orders his angels to protect you wherever you go. They will hold you with their hands to keep you from striking your foot on a stone. You will trample down lions and poisonous snakes; you will crush fierce lions and serpents under your feet! The Lord says, "I will rescue those who love me. I will protect those who trust in my name. When they call on me, I will answer; I will be with them in trouble. I will rescue them and honor them. I will satisfy them with a long life and give them my salvation." (Psalm 91 NLT) Lay down my dear brothers, lay down and take your rest Oh won't you lay your head upon your saviour's breast I love you, oh but Jesus loves you the best ~And We Bid You Goodnight “Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.” -Jesus (John 5:25) If I knew the way, I would take you home ~Jerry Garcia (Ripple) So many roads I tell you So many roads I know So many roads, so many roads Mountain high, river wide So many roads to ride So many roads, so many roads So many roads I tell you New York to San Francisco So many roads I know All I want is one to take me home From the high road to the low So many roads I know So many roads so many roads ~So Many Roads It may seem to you that there are So Many Roads to ease your soul but there's truly only one way that will take you home. "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” -Jesus (John 14:6) How to Know God and Receive Christ into Your Life 1. Realize that you are a sinner. No matter how good a life we try to live, we still fall miserably short of being a good person. That is because we are all sinners. We all fall short of God’s desire for us to be holy. The Bible says, “No one is good—not even one” (Romans 3:10 NLT). This is because we cannot become who we are supposed to be without Jesus Christ. 2. Recognize that Jesus Christ died on the cross for you. The Bible tells us, “But God showed His great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while were still sinners” (Romans 5:8 NLT). This is the Good News, that God loves us so much that He sent His only Son to die in our place when we least deserved it. 3. Repent of your sin. The Bible tells us to “repent and be converted” (Acts 3:19). The word repent means to change our direction in life. Instead of running from God, we can run toward Him. 4. Receive Jesus Christ into your life. Becoming a Christian is not merely believing some creed or going to church on Sunday. It is having Christ Himself take residence in your life and heart. Jesus said, “Behold, I stand at the door (of your life) and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in . . .” (Revelation 3:20). If you would like to have a relationship with Christ, simply pray this prayer and mean it in your heart: Dear Lord Jesus, I know I am a sinner. I believe you died for my sins. Right now, I turn from my sins and open the door of my heart and life. I confess you as my personal Lord and Savior. Thank you for saving me. Amen. If you just prayed that prayer and meant it, Jesus Christ has now taken residence in your heart! Your decision to follow Christ means God has forgiven you and that you will spend eternity in heaven. The Bible tells us, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9). To put your faith in action, be sure to spend time with God by reading your Bible, praying, going to church, and telling others about Christ. Please contact us and let us know about your decision to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. I asked Jesus into my heart, NOW WHAT DO I DO? ben@greateststoryevertold.org The Gospel According to The Grateful Dead Greatest Story Ever Told
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In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.
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ask and ye shall receive.
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that there is no higher study than the search for truth. even the bible says the truth will set you free. humans are given the ability to reason, and i think that deep down we all know the difference between right and wrong. be it religious truth, or scientific truth....the truth is the truth, and thinking of all this has made my head hurt really, really bad.
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the truth is an illusion, it is all in ones preception of life , and life is what you make of it wheather it be true or not is something that can only be revealed in ones own mind. peace & sunshine , i hope you all have a beutiful day ..
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so imagine you were a really intelligent higher entity and you got the chance to design from scratch a being to dominate a fragile planet and rule all the other creatures that you have so carefully designed. Would you really then design something like human beings with their propensity for selfish, narrow minded, destructive, violent and generally dumb behaviour? Not to mention our physiology. Knees, backs and teeth that wear out before their time. Dangerous, painful childbirth for women. And who would build the entertainment centre on top of the waste disposal unit? If there is an intelligent designer he/she/it must have a very warped sense of humour ;-)
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" If scientists wish to explore the idea of intelligent design they should be allowed to do so without the fear of having their careers ruined in an un-American way." Is very well taken. Just have to differ with the "in an un-American way" part. Am remembering when teaching evolution got people in trouble. This kinda leads to me wondering whether "the American way" is whatever is hip at the moment, and heaven forbid if you believe something else. ********************************** It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
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Last year when I was at Nelsons Ledges, a life guard showed me in a water bottle a small (no bigger then a tip of a ball point pen) jelly fish????? The ledges is a corey. How did a fresh water jelly fish get in the corey??? Could this be the process of evolutin??? I do believe in God, or a higher power, but how can anyone explain this???Peace- Moye
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Quaries typically fill with water when the digging strikes the underground water table. Water flows in from rivers, streams, lakes etc. Very small organisms are easily transported through underground water sources. If this were not so, we wouldn't have to worry about polluting our underground water sources from surface dumping.
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wow!!........and WHAT a sense of humor!!! hips......you forgot hips......they wear out.....(owwwwww.......)
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yeah hips too of course Johnman, not to mention (in my case anyway) eyes and short term memory.
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InspirationMoves me brightly Light the song with sense and colour Hold away despair More than this I will not ask Faced with mysteries dark and vast Statements just seem vain at last Some rise Some fall Some climb To get to Terrapin !
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It seems to me that the proper goal of both science and religion should be truth, as others in this forum have suggested. I see religion and science as ultimately seeking the same thing, but coming from different perspectives. For a scientist, the answer "God did it" is insufficient because the aim of science is to find out what processes are involved. How did it happen? Or, for the religious scientist (and there are actually many), how did God do it? As a person of faith, science can produce no evidence that could make me not believe that God exists. However, scientific fact has indeed challenged my particular preconceptions about God and therefore has expanded my understanding of God (as has being exposed to the Grateful Dead experience). At this point in time I believe that God is the ultimate creator of the universe. The Big Bang theory says that a ball of hydrogen exploded to start the universe. The hydrogen had to come from somewhere. Science will seek to explain this, as it should. The answer will only expand my understanding of truth, which, according to Gandhi, is God. When the Grateful Dead started a concert, they had some basic ideas of what was going to happen, but could not predict what the final result would be. I'm open to the possibility that God may create in the same way. Those of you with different ideas, please continue the discussion. If we all continue the discussion with an open mind and respect for each other we can only increase our understanding of truth.
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Please continue to discuss! Excellent post! If we could all write as clearly and thoughtfully as you did-oh MY!********************************** It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
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Thanks for the kind and encouraging words. Your posts along with all the others in this forum have certainly helped me on my journey. Hopefully we will all continue to support and challenge each other along the way. "If I knew the way I would take you home".Peace
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i hear alot of christians say to love thy neighbor as thy self....but what if you suffer from depression and are suicidal does that mean you should kill your neighbor also.?..this question has been in my head for a loooong time.
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The quote you refer to is part of what is known by some as the summary of the law. The full quote from Jesus is "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. The second is like unto it. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets". Many, including myself, feel that this is the essence of the teachings of Jesus. We often forget that Jesus was an observant Jew who was most likely trying to reform Judaism, not start a new religion. He appeared to be combating the legalism that was prevelant in much of Judaism at the time. The commandment to "love your neighbor as yourself" would seem to imply that first you must love yourself. I have struggled with depression at times in my own life. My father, who was an ordained minister, committed suicide. I can tell you that when you are severly depressed you do not love yourself. Unless you get the proper help to deal with your depression you will have no energy to love others. It seems clear to me that this commandment is not telling us to treat others as ourselves when we do not love ourselves. Sadly many churches do not convey the idea that we should love ourselves when they spend all their time telling us what horrible sinners we are. This is a legitimate criticism of the church by many. I believe that Jesus would be just as critical of this brand of Christianity as he was of the Pharisees of his own time. Jesus clearly took time to nurture himself, often withdrawing from the disciples to recharge mentally, spiritually and physically. He seemed to feel that he had to love himself in order to be of service to others. My experience of the Grateful Dead was instrumental in helping me to learn how to love myself. Check out the lyrics to "Eyes of the World". Peace to all and happy Mothers Day to all you moms. You are so important in helping your children realize that they are "the eyes of the world".
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while i agree with what you say about loving yourself, i have always had a problem doing that. i always end up feeling selfish and self centered. i do know i feel happiest when I've made someone else happy, but do i do it to make someone else happy or to please myself? i also tend to have a problem spreading the words of Christ cuz it turns so many people off...and i don't wish to offend anyone.....gotta keep trying tho...as i have said here before...it's how the word is spread that torques most people. i pray long and often (sometimes people hear me and seeing my longhair, tattoos and beard makes them go .."whoa")
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"At root, there is simply no way of separating self from other, self-love from other-love. All knowledge of self is knowledge of other, and all knowledge of other knowledge of self. I begin to see that self and other, the familiar and the strange, the internal and the external, the predictable and the unpredictable imply each other. One is seek and the other is hide, and the more I become aware of their implying each other, the more I feel them to be one with each other. I become curiously affectionate and intimate with all that seemed alien. In the features of everything foreign, threatening, terrifying, incomprehensible, and remote I begin to recognize myself. Yet this is a "myself" which I seem to be remembering from long, long ago—not at all my empirical ego of yesterday, not my specious personality" Alan Watts The Joyous Cosmology: adventures int he chemistry of consciousness Read the whole thing on www.erowid.org/library/books_online/joyous_cosmology.pdf
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Brother Johnman, I relate to your post. I struggle with the same issues. I think the self love that Jesus implies in his words is the exact opposite of self centeredness. When I love myself the most is when I feel most connected with the other, so that the two are one as referenced in Cosmicbadger's post. As far as feeling good when we do something for others I think that it may often simply be a reinforcement that that is what we should be doing. As Joseph Campbell said "follow your bliss". There is a danger that we may become overly proud of all the "wonderful" things we do for others, but we just need to know ourselves well enough not to let this take control of us. I've obviously never met you in person, but from reading your posts you seem to me to be a genuinely loving person who is not operating on false pride. In my own experience I've often asked the question if taking care of myself is being self centered. I've not found an easy answer to that one. I feel we have a responsibilty to not give in to selffishness, but as I said in my earlier post I think we need to nurture ourselves so that we can be of service to others, as Jesus did. The church may tend to encourage a martyr complex in many of us. I don't think Jesus intended for most of us to be martyrs! I just try to prayerfully sort out the negative messages I've been given regarding my own worthlessness from the inner voice that is urging me on to be of service to others. I gather from your previous post that you are already practicing this form of self examination. Regarding spreading the good news, I have come to the conclusion that if we endeavor to follow the example of Jesus' life we will have more than enough to keep us busy and being truly committed to this may be the best way to tell others. Jesus did most of his preaching to those in power who were abusing their office. He seemed to communicate with everyone else simply by listening to and loving them. Blessings to you my friend.
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To answer Johnman from a few days ago. Yes its hard to spread the word of Jesus cause people don't want to usually hear it There is a great quote which I believe is Franciscan and it states " to preach the gospel and sometimes use words" Sometimes actions speak louder than words in this case My best example for this is to follow the 7 Corporal Works of Mercy Going back to the commandments that were previously posted here Love yourself as you would your neighbor Yes there are a lot of people out there that do not "love themself" but all relationships between people are really based on this. The reason why some peole waiver in this notion is becuse they are lacking faith Faith in something whether it be a God or a belief or a set of values As a former youth minister I gave a talk to my 9th and 10th grade students on the topic of realtionships and I told them they first have to have one with themselves,. Any other relationship would not be valid without believing in that. I explained to them that their destiny has already been predetermined by God and the "bad choices" they make lead them way from that plan thus changing their realtionship with themselves Just my 2 cents Keep on writing or posting I'll be back The CAT
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The other night, i was listening to Terrapin Station... and i found a new perspective to it.... its really amazing finding new meaning to songs that are over 30 years old...!!! I had imagined the song was set in a Christian-based theme.. And the Lady of course would be GOD, and the Sailor would be the Believer, and the Soldier would be the non-believer... and the lyric says "I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance" Pretty powerful stuff...makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck!
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I like Johnman's example of how to "spread the word", living by example. My problem with someone attempting to enlightening me with the "Word of Jesus" is that organized religions have had almost two thousand years to tweak the "Word". For me, this does not take from the truths being offered, but leads me to question why it is so important to believe that Jesus literally spoke these exact words. Please enlighten me as to how we can have so many different Christian sects, all proclaiming that theirs is the true path. Explain why "the Word of God" has been edited by mere mortals so often. For me, it boils down to one very important principal, Love. The Church controlled science itself for hundreds of years, and science has succeded in blinding us to many truths that were evident to archaic religions, many of which used entheogens as their sacrament. Science has all but taken enchantment from our lives, but asks us to accept just one unexplainable miracle on faith, the big bang. From there it attempts to explain everything. Entheogens can open up the mind to other realities, the existence of Gaia and other answers, very different from what we are force-fed from birth. What was the Church's reaction to their use? Not exploration and understanding in search of truth, but denial and destruction in the name of control ("the fruit of Satan"). How can it be that knowledge of sacred plants, which were used for thousands and thousands of years, is only now, in the last sixty years or so, being revealed to the rest of the world? I am not refering to synthetics such as LSD, but to the natural entheogens, which allow for a connection to the "whole" of existence. I am not suggesting that everyone trip on the entheogen of their choice. I do not believe that this is our purpose here on Earth. I am suggesting that life is much more complex than what most of us have been brought up to believe, and is becoming ever more complex ever more quickly. It is important that we do not close our minds to what is possible just because it does not fit in the Judeo-Christian mindset. I cannot question the existence of Jesus, whom I do believe exists, or of the power of prayer, which I fully believe in. But neither can I question the existence of the buddha or Muhammad, or of other realms beyond normal understanding. The message is the same. Ultimately, Love really is the answer. Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor.
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fuckin' A
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I love this forum. It's great to hear all the different opinions and to engage in the exchange of ideas. However, at the most basic level the experience of God, the Absolute, the Other, the universe or what ever we choose to call it is not an intellectual excercise (and believe me, no one is more prone to try to intellectualize it than me)! My son and I had a first hand experience of God that was beyond description this weekend. We were at Delfest in Cumberland, MD. On Saturday we heard some really good music. We were enjoying a particularly hot set by Sam Bush when it suddenly began to rain. The rain was most refreshing as it had been a very hot day. Then the rain got harder and they stopped the show due to lightning. We dashed for our tent to ride out the storm. The rain kept coming down harder and suddenly the tent started being pelted with marble sized hail. Then the wind seemed to be coming from everywhere and sheets of rain were coming right through the rainfly. Our tent was becoming a lake! When the hail finally seemed to stop I decided to run for our car that was about 50 yards away. We made it okay and road out the rest of the storm in the car. Sheets of rain were coming down so hard we could not see anything around us. I popped in a CD and listened to Weather Report Suite as it seemed remarkably appropriate. As the music ended the storm subsided. All around us there were tents flattened (including ours) and everyone's belongings were scattered everywhere. The awesomeness of God had just been shown in the power of the storm, but the display of God at work was just beginning. Everyone was asking "Are you alright?" Thankfully everyone was. All around people were lending a hand to put things somewhat back together. Those of us who were staying pitched in to help those who had decided to leave gather up their belongings and get packed up. Everyone was united in helping each other. This was the ultimate display of God at work! This festival will certainly be an experience we will both always remember. "Listen to the thunder shout, I am, I am, I AM"
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Glad to hear that I'm not the only Dawkins fan on the site (maybe also not the only one with a Darwin fish and a Stealie on my bumper?)Interesting how very difficult it is to maintain objectivity and mutual respect on a subject that is so fundamental to the core of our beings. I've gotten a tiny bit better at it as I've gotten older. I'm corresponding with a beloved first cousin in another state who is having major health issues, and is querying me about my beliefs - worried that we won't be meeting in heaven (and we won't!) I think the big thing I've learned is to take it in the spirit in which it was offered. I believe this dialogue with my cousin was opened by her in the spirit of love and caring (although I do know her beliefs require her to witness, while mine only require that I not assault you while you are doing so). So I take a deep breath, and reach down into the biggest and best part of myself before answering. I used to get quite angry while being witnessed to by this branch of my family, but I think I may have gotten beyond that now. At least I hope so. I certainly plan to keep me and my Darwin fish away from the North Carolina folks though :) Have any of the Dawkins folks read The Salmon of Doubt by Doug Adams?
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as someone who was raised jewish i couldn't agree more...... peace and hugs to all
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that article, Marye is realy good. I forwarded it to all my Jewish GD freaks ....now it's Sunday again....back to the ole naked praying......
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The Dead have also touched me spiritually. Listening to the lyrics and getting lost in the music have somehow made me look at things differently and in a new way. I view everything around me differently and now have started exploring different things.
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Amen Jess87! Every time i saw the Grateful Dead it was like "church". A ritualistic loss of the self into the magical music of the Grateful Dead. Joseph Campbell explains this quite well. He even comments on the Gratefud dead and what is happening at the shows!!! I have seen the boys in every incarnation since the passing of Jerry hoping to have those same experiences again - thank you Phil for filling that void during the dry spell! However, this year I was able to see Change Rocks and knew that the magic pot was being stirred - not fully cooked yet, but had potential. I did this 09 tour through the two shows in Philadelphia and with the exception of Wilkes-Barre (a little boring) and the boys brought the spiritual magic back! I laughed, I cried, I lost myself once again in the music. I then saw them at Rothbury - the best I had seen them - can't speak to anything past Philly - have the downloads but you know how that goes. It was my trip to mecca to pray once again before the altar of the Dead. It is a transcendental experience that in the words of James Joyce are epiphianic!!!! I did pray at Rothbury and am looking forward to doing so again in 2010. Thank You! Thank You! Thank You
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Truths,like diamonds can be seen from various angles,some even shine in the dark,others cruise in invisible waves. The obvious cannot all be disregarded either otherwise all the creepy bullshit problems on this planet could be solved now with your sunshine peace! Maybe "gods" are immortals with particular characters who can choose to relate with mortals for a time/space but that is no guaranty of eternity for humans who can become such dreadful bores wi their smallminded headtrips. that's just an opinion,of course!
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so are you going to jump from forum to forum doing this ? well it`s nice to know someone is thinking about me ! I Love you too !!
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Exploring these forums is interesting and new forr me so I often can't find such or such forum again! Exemple: find the "spirituality/religions forum only once and then it mysteriously vanished from lists of forums. Why? another point i don't have clear yet is this:for when i send a message to someone,does it land only as a public reading for anyone to see or can it be send as a more private comment mailbox for deadheads right on the dead .net? for exemple:this message " hey ka " you sent me lately does everyone on this site can read it? anyway,it"s grateful dead heads times for me again these last few days and I hope this music can go on! All these years since I left America I presumed none of you really coud ever careed if us deadheads lived or died,and I got away thinking it wouldn't even matter, except to me!
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Hope everyone has a pleasent sunday !!
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to answer your question, everyone can see a post you make in the forums, i.e. here. When you send someone a PM, only they can read it, unless of course they choose to distribute it further. People also have the option of blocking PMs, either entirely or from a particular person they don't want to hear from. You might want to familiarize yourself with the Very Few Rules topic, which explains in practical terms how things work around here.
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Ultimate Hope (for me) is about finding cosmis waves to other skies where consciousness can go breezing the roses in milleniumw gardens on other planets. Meanwhile I just read now you saying on a post I am not worth it because I argue my own opinions then the next day you said you love I remember I keep in touch. that's one of them typical grateful dead international conversation on the east coats of America maybe? The French folks are historically known for arguing in .It keeps dead minds away from sleeping too long.! In the old days ,in France,arguing salons were an aristocratic pastime and it was considered as utterly bad taste to never criticize .Nowadays frenchies have become dreadful bores but I aint' one of those yet. However rest assure that I don't bother explaining my meanings to tho se not capable to talk back.Besides if deadhead prefer to keep it to the goody holier than tho bit these dead net forum are not going to interest me for too long.For heavens 'sake ,as far back as Socatres and ancient Greece arguing was thought as proof of intelligence.As I don't know how to ship you this comment on PM (Personal Message?) I'll send this on the public forum grapevine.Amitiés !
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it is one thing to state differing points of view, and that happens all the time. Every time a Road Trips comes out, for example. Sniping at each other, however, is not acceptable, and this goes for everybody. Particularly in this topic; read the header. If you can't state your opinion without bad-mouthing another person who feels differently, you don't belong here and your account is not long for this world. There are plenty of places where that behavior is accepted; this is not one of them. That is all. Thank you.
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Sorry hit "enter" accidentially... what I wanted to say is; I hear what you're sayin' ka.... I just think there are some ideas here that keep things categorized... which is way better than the old threads, imo. I like the gist of what you're saying though... "Truth is something you stumble into when you think you're going someplace else." ~ Jerry Garcia
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... sniping isn't cool., like marye said. There are better ways... sniping is like alcohol in that it is a bit obsolete compared to what CAN happen along those lines. "Truth is something you stumble into when you think you're going someplace else." ~ Jerry Garcia
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Like you am an american ex pat, living in Europe. Like you, I know ALOT about how French people love a lively discussion. How if one guy says the sun is yellow, another one will say it is blue-just to discuss it a bit more. The trick is finding a balance for expressing your ideas HERE, in a multi-national forum. In a way that says what you think, without sounding aggressive. Like my pal GRTUD here, I understood what you were saying. But I also see how your tone was seen as snarky-not everyone has this French fondness for friendly confrontational discussion and using irony to express themselves. Taking cultural differences into consideration is important. Also remembering that it is not always easy to read someone's mood or intended tone through written text; when we cannot hear the voice, nor see the facial expression. ********************************** Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. Mark Twain
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but i got the impression the ka.swan was sniping at him (or her) self and is livin' in france.....of course my powers of perception my not be up to snuff. i dont believe any insults were intended just a bit of self-or national-deprecation...being well versed in self deprecation myself, ya unnerstan'
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One of The greatest Zen teachers and writers in the United States passed away today. I thank him for his wisdon. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
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He loves you. Jesus Loves You The Best! greateststoryevertold.org
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thanks, ben, for the reminder. needed that right about now.I love you, amd everyone here, too. peace and love and love and peace.
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God bless everyone, no exceptions...yeah, i know, not original, but i believe it nonetheless.