Grateful Dead

Or what I know about copyrighted material (music) that I don't own the any of the copyrights to. If I won that auction with all these tapes, many years ago, I would have gotten in touch with a lawyer for myself who knows about copyright laws. Then we (or just myself)would contact Grateful Dead and at least have them refund me the price I paid for the contents of the storage locker, or at least the tapes, and have Grateful Dead pay shipping costs, if necessary. If the location of Betty's storage unit was close to the Grateful Dead's vault location, I would deliver the tapes myself and have the GD pay for my fuel expenses, and ask for a tour / view of the vault. I don't see any reason that the GD should pay an exorbitant amount of money to get their recordings back.

What other band does this??? Old ones with knowledgeable record companies. First why shouldn't the band cash in, they've worked their asses off and have a skill set nobody else had/has. Second from the record companies point of view, the audience (us) are dying off. Can't buy box sets in a old age home. Cause really no matter how good they are, things move on. Has the Elvis train been milked to it's max or the Beatles. Sure there are young folks (god, I've reached an age when I can say that!), but are they coming in faster than going out? This is at least a band whose catalog is so deep, it will take years to release it all. Probably not much left in the "unreleased material" column for Beatles, Pink Floyd. Do they just not have it for some? Did Pink Floyd not record their shows? Or is that the point, they did "a show", sure did a world tour, but the first show was the same as the last show. Which probably is a copy of the album! This started off that I was just being funny, but really what is your opinion about the band's half-life. I can see a time maybe with a late night television ad by K-Tel, where you can get the "greatest dead shows ever", 15 of the legendary band shows come alive, all re-mastered with dyna-sound (tm). All on 1 convenient flash-stick. 15 shows for just 14.95,,, and if you act now, you'll get a limited edition picture of Jerry. I believe they've already made a never going away sound and song book. Didn't they invent jam band? I could believe 100 years from now, there a Sinatra like guy doing stella blue in front of a orchestra. Sorry, prattling on, original question, "what other band does this?", nobody, because nobody else can!

nug.com keeps reminding me about Phil's Birthday. It is unreal to believe I got to do this but as those of us who were lucky enough to see them live they can understand these unreality's. Well it was 26 years ago I guess. I was a student at KU. It was spring break. What a concept. Well since we had nothing better to do. One of my room mates and I hit the road from kansas to the capital center in landover. must have been a nice day to get to do that. wish i could remember the conversation. oh lets got to maryland with no tickets. OK. things are easy when your young. Anyway the trip was nicknamed later "Spring Broke" because the car broke down in Vandalia Ill. so we spent almost all our money fixing the car. I will never forget that conversation. standing on a green lawn outside the repair shop. Should we go on with little money now and no tickets ? The answer of course was YES. those were the days. anyway when we got there it was the most sold out show I had ever been to . East Coast and with Phil's 50th birthday the show got even more difficult to get into. I remember a woman getting mad a me because I offered 50 dollars for a ticket. Which was all my money. She wanted one for free. 50 dollars was not even close to getting a ticket. SOLD OUT big time. Day one went by. No ticket. Day 2 I spent with a woman who I met on the summer tour at RFK going to the Smithsonian in DC. Day 3 back to work. Phil's B-Day. How do I get in. Money will not do it. Tons of people trying to get a free ticket. So I spent all day looking for a break. Now after that word I have renicknamed the trip" Spring Break" because I got one. Back in those days for me just seeing the lights set up through the glass doors behind a curtain was a lot for me. So at some point I went to stand and look through the glass at the lights inside while they were playing. Just as I was walking up. Some DC political normal types were walking out in the middle of drums. Suits and Dresses. I set my walk to theirs and because the security guard was so obsessed with watching the dancing in the hallway. He never even looked at me. Bam Bam. I was in. The Revolution encore was a wonderful moment in my Dead career. I remember clear as day watching during Throwing Stones brent toss a line to jer who tossed it to bob and phil finishing it. unbelieveable communication by the band.

Midway,I had to crack up at the woman getting mad at you because she wanted a freebie. Next night, same parking lot, my friends & I were trading our 3rd night Landover extras for 3rd night Nassau (an ultimately successful plot hatched on the spot by our friend Dean). A livid head righteously scolded by buddy Lee for not GIVING him his extra rather than trading it for no profit. Those are the heads I don't miss. I do still lament the forgone opportunity to gift my extra to a (nicer) head in need, which was my plan until Dean's emerged. Needless to say, though, I can't regret catching 3/30/90. Rosebud, Best American band, eh. Me and my brother just had this conversation three nights ago. We solidly, harmoniously named the good ol' GD. If we're traversing genres, then the Coltrane Classic Quartet is also hard to beat. (I'm sure a hoard of FM radio classic rockers would spout the Eagles -- but I doubt anyone here would. Even if a surprisingly softer spot appeared in my heart with Frey's death, after I'd roundly dismissed their worth for the past 25 years). Oroboro-boro, Speaking of the Dead and Coltrane, YES! re: your raised consciousness thoughts (and Jerry's, thanks for sharing). I read once that a pair of Buddhist monks attended a show and objectively noted the palpably raised vibration that ensued. I've read your stories, now, too! LoveJerry, 30Trips made up for A LOT where mid-80s is concerned. For the 15 years prior, the comparative numbers would look wildly different -- count the 81-88 releases in all those years, vs. 71-78. Not whinin', just sayin' (since you mentioned it). But you don't need to buy me a July '78 box, I've ordered one :)

I was in a weird seat (side o' stage rafters) for Phil's birthday show, which colored down my experience. Still some definite highlights (Easy to Love You, Althea, Cassidy, Jed, Terrapin, Wharf Rat > Throwin Stones). Revolution was fun, even if Jerry missed nearly all the words! Us being a dyed-in-the-Apple Beatles family, I was embarrassed to face my sister, who attended her one and only show that night; worse, the sound wasn't dialed in yet for Sugaree, the one Dead song she knew. Oh, well. Her heart wasn't meant to be lassoed by our heroes. Next night I was right up front, though. You'd think the Black-Throated breakout would be the highlight....but I'd never seen anything like Brent's improvised sermon during Blow Away. Even Jerry was asking everyone to clap, with a big smile on his face...!

This is what I expected for the 50th(30 trips is amazing). This May we get the 87 box, Dave's picks with an a great bonus disc and Day of the Dead which I which will surprise many people. Maybe another small box later this year.

Yeah all these releases should be free and the shows too. And, come to think of it, Phil and Bob should cut my lawn this weekend too!

They did that the year before in one of my favorite shows. 5/11/77. Nobody should waste their dollars buying this set for anyone who would prefer a 198? box.. I'd love a copy of this. Best American band? I actually agree and had this convo with MY brother as well a few years back. He posed the question to me and one of our friends, because so many of the other great bands of the era were British. All I could think of were Grateful Dead, Eagles and maybe CCR or Allmans. But for me, it was definitely more between the Dead and the Eagles.. yes.. the Eagles. They were undoubtedly a great band and wrote a lot of very good songs. But I digress.. I definitely like The Dead better. Hard sell for my brother and other friend though, who just don't really get the Dead.

...did Jack Straw while playing in Wichita. Was glad to hear that when I got Dave's 11.

I think Parish should cut your lawn using some type of mower towed by his Harley from the '79 MSG shows.

Careful boys.. you just might get what you ask for. I'd call it even if Phil would replace all the speakers of mine he has blown over the years..

Betty was authorized to record the band on those reels and tapes. I wonder was she authorized to keep them or remove them from the vault. Would the tapes not be owned by The Grateful Dead or Ice Nine Publishing? That would make them missing property...Should they not be then returned to owner, once they are established?

Yes, the tapes were Betty's, not the bands, as was the mixing board and recording eqpt. That was the arrangement, everyone knew. No one saw how it was going to end though.. that was unfortunate.

Pretty sure that the tapes are just property of an ordinary type. They were Betty's tapes, but the rights to the music belonged to the band. So when the storage locker went unpaid, the contents including the tapes were sold and the new owner lawfully possesses them. However, the Dead still own the rights to the music, the contents of the tapes for copyright purposes including duplication. Just like your cd collection, you can own the discs and the music on them, but you can't set up a burner and sell copies as this would violate the copyright restrictions. Reproduction in part would still be a derivative work subject to copyright protections. I think that it was One Man who noted that in the video for the release Dave was vague as to the actual ownership of the tapes at this point and I would agree with his assessment that there is probably some joint venture here where the tape owners will get a slice of the profits in some way, and that if this works out it increases the probability that we will see more of the lost Betty tapes. The owner of the tapes and the owners of the rights to the music seem to be working in cooperation at this point, lets hope it continues to everyone's benefit. Just my 2 cents

I think we do , they are for sale, 5 shows for $130. Rhino struck an agreement to get a lot of Master Reels. The article about the Betty's a few years ago was a teaser that it happened. I think Relix had that in their magazine and Relix has a good connection with GD and Rhino. Now who knows what was salvaged from this lot ? Only a few people and with Rob Eaton heading the charge since it appears to be his craftiness for some of these to be returned. I'm guessing Rhino was not interested in other bands music, but some JGB, New Riders, Reconstruction, and other bands could have gotten tapes back. Reconstruction = drool, I would love to see a few discs from Reconstruction released

"...they're the only ones that do what they do." -Uncle Bobo

the past two days, after a record-setting rainy season, Mt. Rainier (some call it Tahoma) is brilliantly clear and visible, standing guard over Washington. so freakin' awesome. Happy Friday to all. 9/18/74 is hot.

This sentence has me all crazy: five incredible unreleased shows and the first official release from the long-lost “Betty Boards,” recently returned to the Grateful Dead’s vault.

I ordered this box three days ago when it first appeared on here and paid with my credit card. As usual, the sum appeared as "Reserved" on my card account. Normally this disappears after a few days, then the card is charged for real at shipping time. Today I noticed that the full order cost has been charged to my card for real, so I have to pay it even though the order will not ship for two months. This is not normal and a mail has been despatched to customer service asking for a explanation. I am curious to hear their explanation.

The boys always did well playing the time and place tunes in the right venue. Personal favorites were the Cumberlands in Portland, Maine (Cumberland County Civic Center and the I Know Your Rider at Red Rocks. Bob's referencing the "garbage heap" during Minglewood at Shoreline was humorous. To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen... I was at Red Rocks 87 and I loved Red Rocks 87, but 87 is no 78. (Sorry to stir it one more time, but that is what my ears are telling me)

Simon Rob- I was sure that I had seen it in print so I reread everything here, then I added one to my cart. At the bottom, right before the order button is this line: Cards will be charged at checkout | July 1978: $9.95 Shipping -$5.00 Not there normal deal, I guess the $5.00 rebate on shipping is supposed to soften the blow.

Oxford, indeed you are correct - it does state that "cards will be charged at checkout". That is not the way to do business and not the way it is normally done here. Maybe that is how its gonna be from now on or maybe its a mistake. I await a reply from customer service and will post when I know more. P.S. You may get a $5 rebate on US shipping, but I had to pay $24.99 for shipping to Europe.

I may be wrong, but I think they have been inconsistent with when they charge. They charge immediately for the DaP subscription, but they waited on 30 Trips... It is all a jumble at this point. The postage fees our international brethren pay are pretty outrageous.

Listen to the Warf Rat teaser. Excellent job all around. Incredibly tough for a studio singer to match pitch with untrained voices in a live situation. Many times it wasn't Donna that was off. Yes some PITB wails are over the top and often off, but too many people spew their Yoko bad vibes. (BTW, Ever hear the Isolated vocal tracks of Linda McCartney with wings, Ouch)

After placing my order, there was a reserve placed on the card. But as of yesterday, the reserve was removed, and the funds restored. As a much wiser man once said- "Leggo my Eggo."

yep , shipping to Europe costs a lot and , don`t forget VAT and taxes - makes another 20 % of the price ( at least for Austria )Well, i don`t mind, does not mean i`s pay any price but the Dead is not luxury for me but essential......and it comes flowing back everytime i listen.....

I wouldn't say that it is "standing guard" more like a sleeping giant that is a ticking time bomb of lahars and pyroclastic flows ready to lay waste to the area with volcanic ejecta but to each their own. I was charged as well at this point I don't care when I get charged as long as it shows up, I mean the money is already "gone" at this point anyway.

He wouldn't hurt us. ever. Not in a million years. Maybe in two million, but not a million.

Majestic. What a spectacular mountain.

It is certainly majestic but not a majesty to be underestimated!! The arc of Cascade volcanoes and the 3 Sisters is fueled by the subduction and subsequent partial melting of oceanic crust under the continent; this process is ongoing and active. Da da dahhhh....cue dramatic timpani drums. Sorry for the lameness I used to be an igneous petrologist and the danger of eruption always holds a bit of excitement for me! It is listed as one of our nations most dangerous volcanoes. Still one of my favorite drives is through the Columbia River Flood Basalt Province. With active volcanism and eruptions happening over the last 500,000 years and the last in 1894 (which were small and at the summit) I wouldn't go as far to say as 1 in 2 million. Yikes!

when it does go again, I hope the wind is blowing toward the east, not northerly. until then, it looks like a big scoop of cosmic ice cream. under the right conditions, you can see that ice cream melt. wink wink, nudge nudge.

I love the comment about the possibility of some Reconstruction releases! I second that emotion! In terms of the number of releases per year, here are the numbers to the best of my ability, including the number of releases, number of discs, and number of complete shows. I've included the live albums in the count (excluding Anthem) and also some of the semi-legal releases (Vintage & Historic). 1966: 5/6/1. Vintage, Historic. Birth of the Dead, Rare Cuts. 30 Trips. 1967: 1/2/1. 30 Trips. 1968: 4/9/3. Two Vault Exp. Dick's 22. 30 Trips. RT 2#2. 1969: 8.5/29.5/9. Live/Dead. Dick's 16, 26. Live FillE, FW '69 Complete, 30 Trips. RT 4#1. -------- Dave's 6 (half) + BD, 10. 1970: 6.5/15.5/3. Bear's Choice. Dick's 4, 8. FDatGH '70, 30 Trips. RT 3#3. Dave's 6 (half), 1971: 10/26/4. Skull & Roses. Three Vault. Dick's 2, 35. Ladies & Gents, Winterland '71(V). ------RT 1#3, 3#2. Dave's 3, 1972: 14/113/28*. Europe '72. Dick's 11, 23, 30, 36. 100 Hall, Steppin' Out, Rhein, Europe ------'72Complete (* w/ Beat Club as a show), SSDD, Hofheinz, 30 Trips. Dave's 11, 14. 1973: 9/36/7. Dick's 1, 14, 19, 28. Wint '73 Complete, 30 Trips. RT 4#3. Dave's 5, 16. 1974: 13/40/5*. Steal Your Face. Dick's 7, 12, 24, 31. GD Soundtrack, 30 Trips. GD Movie. ------RT 2#3. Dave's 2 ( minus Seastones), 9, 13, 17. 1975: 2.5*/4.5*/2. One from Vault. 30 Trips. Half of BD Bonus disc (all of 3/23 save Encore). 1976: 7/25/7. Dick's 20, 33. Cow Palace, 30 Trips. RT 4#5. Dave's 4, 18. 1977: 12/55/15. Dick's 3, 10, 15, 29, 34. Hartford '77, Wint '77 Complete, May '77, 30 Trips. ------RT 1#2. Dave's 1, 12. 1978: 9/38/9. Dick's 18, 25. Closing Wint, Cradle, 30 Trips. RT 1#4. Dave's 7, 15. July '78. 1979: 5*/14*/3*. Dick's 5, 13* (2 songs). Live at Hampton, 30 Trips. RT 1#1, 3#1. 1980: 7*/15*/1. Reckoning, Dead Set. Bonus on Dick's 21. Go To Nassau, 30 Trips. Dead -------Ahead. RT 3#4. Dave's 8. 1981: 2/6/2. Dick's 13. 30 Trips. 1982: 3/8/3. Dick's 32. 30 Trips. RT 4#4. 1983: 2/6/2. Dick's 6. 30 Trips. 1984: 1/3/1. 30 Trips. 1985: 3/7/2. Dick's 21. 30 Trips. So Far (mostly). 1986: 1/2/1. 30 Trips. 1987: 3*/6*/2. View III (bonus), IV. 30 Trips. Ticket to New Year's. 1988: 2/6/2. 30 Trips. RT 4#2. 1989: 6.5*/17.5*/6*. *2 songs on W/out Net. Infrared Roses. Nightfall of D, Truckin Buffalo, ------CW&I, Warlocks, 30 Trips. Downhill. 1990: 10.5*/54.5*/20* Without a Net. Infrared Roses. Dick's 9. View I, II (bonus), III. ------Dozin', Terrapin Ltd, Spring '90 (counting 3/24 as whole), Spring '90 TOO, 30 Trips. ------RT 2#1. 1991: 3/9/3. Dick's 17. View II. 30 Trips. 1992: 2/6/2. Dick's 27. 30 Trips. 1993: 2/6/2. 30 Trips. RT 2#4. 1994: 1/3/1. 30 Trips. 1995: 1/3/1. 30 Trips. ------------------------------------- I didn't count download series. Included DP 18 and the forthcoming '78 release. 1970 seems underrepresented from the prime years ('69-'78). Beyond that, '90 has more complete shows out than any year save '72, and more discs than any save '72 and '77. '89, '79., and '80 are also well represented, and justly so. In terms of underrepresented, beyond '70, I'd have to go '85, '87, '88, and '91. '67 cries out for more, but tapes may be harder to come by. Ditto '68. No complaints on the upcoming '78 release, only joy.

Wasn't he the mouse in Krazy Kat cartoons? :-) I know you're old enough to know the cartoon, right?

That one predates me by a little (ran from 1913 to 1944). I had to look it up. Pretty cool history though. Now I am beginning to feel old.. ..and Wulf, yes.. Rainier probably will blow one day and hopefully not cause too much destruction. Wasn't the dead in the middle of Fire On The Mountain for one of Mt. St. Helens temper tantrums? I was at St. Helens shortly after it blew, talk about destruction.. I spent a year working in Seattle and have a friend there. I was talking to him about seeing this every day on my commute and what an awesome sight it is.. his comment, I bet that sight causes a car death per year, people get caught in its glare.. coming from someone that lives there.. I bet he's close to being right. Yellowstone is a long term threat too, but hopefully we will all be partying with Pigpen by then. As for Reconstruction and Jerry Band Stuff.. my mind wandered there also. I would guess they would have to strike up their own deal for those, but theres likely tapes from shows that were all but forgotten to history. Exiting times lady's and gents.. What a year.

I don't know. They're nice easy listening, but I've always thought incredibly overrated. They upped their appeal in my book when Joe Walsh stepped in, but if you think about it, they only had a handful of albums and tours. There's nothing unappealing about their music to me, and I own all of their records, I just don't know how they get in a conversation for Best American Band, when they're simply one of many popular American bands. I think their record sales and concert attendance has more to do with their style of music's appeal to a wide array of audiences (they get some rock fans, they get some women fans, they get some easy listening fans), but number ones and total sales make not a great band (look at KISS - don't get me wrong, I love them, but I won't say they're a great band). They're not in the Dead's league by any stretch of the imagination. Or the Allman's or Santana or Steely Dan. I'd also put the Doors above them, Pearl Jam, Aerosmith, Creedence, Petty, Springsteen. If you're 10th on the list, you're not one of the best. I think I might feel differently about them if they had either more great albums, a concert experience that was significantly better than a live replay of their LPs, or if they'd demonstrated an appreciable growth in their compositions over time. Like if they'd written the first rock opera....

Must have just been the NY market, but the cartoon showed in the morning when I was 9-11 (+/-). I was shocked when I looked it up how old it was, but a lot of the popeye's were probably old too. And old Bugs was better that 60's bugs!

I feel the same way,, nice enough band,,, some nice hits,,,, have most of their albums,, but.... I seldom pull out their albums most of the songs I would play you will hear on the radio almost every day! But I know a guy who says "greatest band" also. To each their own. I see you also like Steely Dan, also knew a guy who swore "greatest band EVER!" And I always thought their ok, liked Aja and Can't Buy a Thrill back in the day. Then recent talk about them touring on this board made me buy tickets. They seemed cheap and I thought what the hell. After getting them I realized Steve Winwood is opening, so as long as he does Low Spark, I'm a happy camper. Then I loaded up all their albums and played them in the car, while me and wife were going places, we sang and knew the words (funny thing was we listened to them for years on a home made cassette, knew the words but didn't know the song titles, so we were shocked by titles and even some words) we even recognized songs from other albums just from airplay. But we listened to about 4 albums and I was thinking about it. Pulled in to driveway and wife said just what I was thinking,,,, all the songs sound the same! I think the show will be very nice and I think the sound will be very clean, but, I'm glad Winwood is opening!

After the Dead I would say: ABB, Springsteen, Steely Dan, Pearl Jam, Doors & Eagles. I also like CCR, Aerosmith & Mellencamp but I think they are a cut below. Rock on

BTW, I need 7 new shows in May like I need a hole in my head. Like it's not bad enough that I stare at the 200 shows I have for 50% of the free time I have to listen to music, trying to figure out which one is going to scratch the itch. I'm an obsessive DeadHead with attention deficit disorder....I want some Pigpen...no I want some Keith....no I'm not up for Donna right now, damn - wait - I'll go with DaP 14, I can get Keith and Pigpen without Donna. Two songs in, and now I'm thinking if I'm going to listen to '72 with Pigpen, I should probably put on one of the Europe '72 shows, since the multi-track sounds much much better, plus I'd kind of like to get a Dark Star in the mix....let's go with 4/8 or maybe 5/4...shit do I go with something that has a Wharf Rat or Uncle John's Band? Yes, lets' go 5/25, Dark Star, Wharf Rat, and Uncle John's Band, all on the same disc! Ah, that's nice, but I better start from Disc 1 or the proper build up isn't going to be in place. Ok disc one, Promised Land...love this one, especially in '72, but 5/23 actually had a better Promised Land...yeah, let's go with 5/23, it has the better Promised Land, a better Dark Star, and a great Uncle John's Band....hmmm, no Wharf Rat....no mind, I'll get my Wharf Rat fix FIRST, then put on 5/23...but which Wharf Rat? Definitely '72, let's go either Rockin' The Rhein or 5/10....definitely 5/10, love the sharp crisp chords and reverb...except I'm two songs into 5/25 now, and hooked on the Brown-Eyed Women groove...let's just leave this one on...actually Brown-Eyed Women peaked in '77, let's go to 5/25/77, same date 5 years later, that's somehow meaningful, and it's Dave's Picks 1, which has that great first set....there we go, I'll just listen to Dave's Picks 1 - starts off with that awesome Mississippi Half-Step...this is it, yes, this is IT. Love how they quietly roll into the Rio Grandio coda on this version, so quiet and serene, with just enough nuance to make it unique...ah that was a good one, and Jack Straw is playing now, also fantastic - one of the few early songs that I still enjoy by '77, but really the version on Dave's Picks 15 is the one....maybe I'll just make a mix. Hmmm, do I do a '71 / '72 mix or a '76 - '78 mix? And when did I last take my meds?

..anyone know why Jerry was a little down on the Doors?

I think I might start calling it Tahoma, like McKinley is now Denali. You know what goes friggin' great while at Mt Rainier, some good ol' 1978 Grateful Dead. And a giant can of Rainier beer of course. Take my kids camping in Ohanapecosh every summer, it's taught them a tremendous respect for the mountain. (Last major eruption was 1893 if you like that kind of trivia) Whoever mentioned the Gorge drive, spectacular too. Taking the kids to Hood River for spring break, there'll be some GD blasting on that trip too.

So I got my reply from customer service as to why my card was charged now rather than in two months time when this thing ships. Here is what they had to say on the matter: "Thank you for contacting Dead.net Customer Service. We apologize for any inconvenience. Due to the various payment issues with the Fare Thee Well box set, the company has decided to capture the funds of the pre-orders the morning after they are placed. We had quite a few issues where the item was shipped, but the funds were not captured due to expired authorizations, insufficient funds, etc. If you have any further questions or comments, please let us know." Captured, huh? Thats one way of putting it I guess. For me, this doesn't constitute best business practice. I can imagine the response when the next mega-box is announced and everybody who pre-orders gets charged hundreds of bucks months before the thing is released. Still, as long as this is the only place one can get these releases, then they can do what they like and we will keep coming back for more. The simple solution would be: Don't ship until the funds are "captured". How hard can that be?

From a 6/11/81 Gans/Jackson interview with Garcia in Conversations With The Dead: JACKSON: We're doing an issue of Bam Magazine on The Doors GARCIA: I never liked The Doors. I found them terribly offensive...when we played with them. It was back when Jim Morrison was just a pure Mick Jagger copy. That was his whole shot, that he was a Mick Jagger imitation. Not vocally, but his moves, his whole physical appearance were totally stolen from right around Mick Jagger's 1965 tour of the states. He used to move around alot, before he started to earn a reputation as a poet, which i thought was really undeserved. Rimbaud was great at eighteen, nineteen, and Verlaine. Those guys were great. Fuckin' Jim Morrison was not great, I'm sorry. I could never see what it was about The Doors. They had a very brittle sound live, a three piece band with no bass- the organ player (Manzarek) used to do it. That and that kinda raga-rock guitar style was strange. It sounded very brittle and sharp-edged to me, not something i enjoyed listening to. Kind of appreciated some of the stuff they did later, and I appreciated a certain amount of Morrison's sheer craziness, just because that's always a nice trait in rock 'n' roll. No, I never knew him, but Richard Loren, who works for us, was his agent and had to babysit him through his most drunken scenes and all the times he got busted and all that crap. He's got lots of stories to tell about Morrison. I was never attracted to their music at all, so I couldn't find anything to like about them. When we played with them, I think i watched the first tune or two, then I went upstairs and fooled around with my guitar. There was nothing there that i wanted to know about. He was so patently an imitation of Mick Jagger that it was offensive. To me, when The Doors played San Francisco they typified Los Angeles coming to San Francisco., which i equated with having the look right, but zero substance. This is way before that hit song, Light My Fire. Probably at that time in their development it was too early for anyone to make a decent judgement of them, but I've always looked for something else in music, and whatever it was, they didn't have it. They didn't have anything of blues, for example, in their sound or feel. JACKSON: Did you sense the negativity? GARCIA: No, not really. all I sensed was sham. As far as I was concerned, it was surface and no substance. Then we played with them after the Light My Fire thing, when they were headliners. We opened for them in Santa Barbara some years later, when they were a little more powerful. Their sound had gotten better - they'd gotten more effectively amplified, so Manzarek's bass lines and stuff like that had a little more throb, but their sound was still thin. It wasn't a succesful version of a three-piece band, like The Who or Jimi Hendrix, or Cream, or any other guitar power trio type three-piece bands. It's an interesting concept, a three-piece band that's keyboard, guitar, drums, but it was missing some element I thought was vital. I couldn't say exactly what it was, but it was not satisfying for me to listen to them. When they were the headliners, it was sort of embarrasing for us to open for them, cause we sort of blew them off the stand with just sheer power. What we had with double drums and Phil's bass playing - it got somewhere, and when they played there was an anticlimax feeling to it, even with their hits. In the part of my life when I was impressionable along that androgynous input, for me the people that were happening were James Dean and Elvis. Early rock and roll - i'm like first generation rock and roll influence. for me, James Dean was a real important figure. He was the romantic fulfillment of that vision.

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The Doors were a great band to my ears. L.A. Woman is a better album than any of the Dead's studio work in my opinion (although Workingman's Dead comes close). Its funny, Keith Richards gave an interview a few months ago where he referred to the Grateful Dead as "boring shit, man". I love the Rolling Stones, the Doors and above all the Grateful Dead so its funny to hear them putting each other down. I think I read somewhere Jerry wasn't impressed by Jimmy Page and Zeppelin either who are rightfully regarded as amongst the greatest of all time. Maybe its because I dont approach popular music with a musician's ear but through the ears of a fan. And while we're on the subject of greatest American band, after the Dead the Velvet Underground rank very highly in my mind, they were definitely revolutionary-

Jerry said similar things in a 78 interview (think it was 78). And, likewise, he mentioned having liked their later stuff or later LPs. I would guess Jerry liked Morrison Hotel and LA Woman. Both of which have a strong blues element. Krieger apparently, and maybe there are others here who could elaborate this better, was playing classical and flamenco style guitar while finger picking. Hence Jerry's Raga Rock comment.

Subtle, that Garcia. I actually enjoyed that write-up a lot. I bought all the doors albums in Jr. High.. so I listened to them when I was young but the only CD of theirs I ever bought was LA Woman and I'm not sure if I ever even played it. I like them.. but well.. Interesting take. I can see that coming from Jerry. I half assumed it had something to do with the Bear LA days, when Jim used to send people to them to score for him. This makes a lot more sense.

I heard Keith in a TV interview say that Page was an amazing player but musically Zeppelin did nothing for him -- not a fan at all. Pete Townsend said more or less the same but that he like them all personally and that Zeppelin got bigger than The Who.

After the Dead, I've always liked the Byrds, Allman Brothers and Skynyrd.

Red Rocks..I've been once, the Avetts and Old Crow. Really cool..though I originally knew about it from a friend that was a DMB nut. Jeez, I think I had mentally blocked that part. Then I remember seeing Dylan playing Morrison, CO on Boblinks.com (Bill Pagel!) in July 2007..wondering why he just didn't play Denver? Learned a bit more at that time, and he played Friend of the Devil for the first time in 5 years on the 19th...that let me know what Bob thought when he thought of Red Rocks. Still the last time he's played it...not my favorite boot, but still dig that track. And he'll be back at Red Rocks this summer, with Mavis Staples, as Stegner mentioned. We saw the Avetts there in 2013, but they played there the next year with Bob Weir. Must be nice... Anyways, non-sequitur; I am on an I Know You Rider mini-binge..can anyone provide some favorite 'wish I was a headlight' versions?