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    marye
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    Got ideas for how things should be run differently in the Vineyard? Improvements? Suggestions? Brainstorms? Truckloads of fertilizer? Post here.,On the floor at MSG... one perfect song after another...and we were beyond elated with disbelief and gratitude. This was truely a fantasy set list and, in my opinion, the best of my 8 show run.

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  • UncleJon
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    WAV, FLAC, MP3, Etc
    Well said Cosmic! After all the years of trying to get the highest generation tapes it is so amazing that we can now get the original recordings at the same quality as a first generation tape, all in the blink of an eye. Everyone, please don't convert back and forth from FLAC/WAV to MP3 and back again unless it is solely for your own personal use. When you do convertback and forth what goes missing is the high and low end range of the music. MP3 essentially chops off half the sound so it can compress the files and fit them onto your ipod, etc. The hardcore traders can analyze this and see that the dynamic range has been cut off. The reason all this works is because as we get older we lose the ability to hear some of that range, but simply put, the music isn't as pure as the day it was played anymore - you are only robbing yourself! I'm not trying to be a taper snob, I have been known to use MP3 to burn discs for long road trips, etc. Much easier to manage. But, when at home, it is FLAC all the way... "when life looks like easy street, there is danger at your door"
  • stuman
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    mp3 wav
    I don`t trade mp3 , just use it for my own personal . I prefer to store everything in shn/flac.(if it comes that way) plus shn/flac takes up less space on the old hard drive . Thank you for the imfo CB . Thank you too Hal .
  • Hal R
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    you can have WAV discs with itunes
    Click Edit, then preferences, , then advanced, then importing, then on import using you can set on WAV encoder. I use Traders Litlle Helper and then burn discs using this method, also make sure and set for no gaps between songs. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
  • cosmicbadger
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    MP3 etc
    If you get sent wav files on CD and want to make CD copies there is absolutely no need to convert them to MP3s and then back to wavs.There are plenty of programmes (such as EAC) that will just let you rip the files and then reburn them directly as wavs. The trading community strongly discourages (to say the least) converting wavs or flacs to MP3 and then converting back to wav and other formats. Why? Because people have gone to all the trouble to unearth and prepare digital copies of all these shows and to distribute them so that every copy is the same quality as the original (using lossless formats such as wav or flac). If you convert these to MP3s for your ipod that is fine, but there will be some loss of quality. If you then covert them back to wav (or flac) you lose even more quality. If you then trade those copies you are putting inferior quality versions of shows back into circulation. Having finally got the means to avoid the loss of quality across generations, we should all try to use it. Indeed the trading community also tries to discourage seeding shows saved as wavs. Ideally all trading would be from flac to flac. Similarly if you receive flacs you can either -copy the flacs to your hdd and play them using programme like foobar2000 -Convert them to wavs using traders little helper and then burn them onto CDs -Convert them to MP3s for use on ipods etc....but these should not be traded. It is best to keep a copy of the flacs to use for trading and as a back up. Then if you lose any shows you have an original quality back up standing by. You can see a better and brief explanation of this here http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/faq.php?faq=audio or visit the various forums in etree
  • fluffhead042
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    i agree....
    for collection purposes I prefer FLAC but I always convert another copy to mp3 so i can load up a fatty disc chock full of dank shows and just groove all day without breaking the flow of energy by changing discs....kills the bzzzzzzzzzzz "In a bed, in a bed, by the waterside I will lay my head. Listen to the river sing sweet songs, to rock my soul."
  • stuman
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    I hav`nt noticed difference
    in quality of sound . in fact I have some cd`s burned in data format where i have numerous shows burned on one disc .I used both windows media and i-tunes for that. one disc plays for hours, but only on my computer.mp3 discs only seem to play in select newer cd players.data discs only on the computer. but hey it sounds grate to my old ears . peace..
  • fluffhead042
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    I recommend...
    switch sound file converter trader'slittle helper FLAC Frontend "In a bed, in a bed, by the waterside I will lay my head. Listen to the river sing sweet songs, to rock my soul."
  • JackstrawfromC…
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    The reason I ask
    Is because when I get an audio CD vine, the easiest thing to do is rip it to iTunes. But you know, it then is converted to mp3. So I was wondering if folks then go through the hassle to convert back to wav when you want to burn yourself a CD? I actually do not like iTunes' CD burner so I use a different program. Anyways just thought I'd see what you all do out there in vine land.... "Escaping through the lily fields, I came across an empty space. It rainbow then exploded, left a bus stop in its place. The bus come by and I got on, thats when it all began. It was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of the bus to never ever land"
  • JackstrawfromC…
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    I tried TLH
    It said that it gave errors but it looks (sounds) like it worked to me?? I always wondered what the difference was between burning wav vs mp3 onto a CD?? I was under the impression that wav sounded better than mp3 (on a CD anyways)... but I am really not hearing a difference.. "Escaping through the lily fields, I came across an empty space. It rainbow then exploded, left a bus stop in its place. The bus come by and I got on, thats when it all began. It was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of the bus to never ever land"
  • stuman
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    mp3 to wav
    Have you try`d traders little helper ? I know I can convert wav to mp3 , that fits an entire show on one disc that way .
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Got ideas for how things should be run differently in the Vineyard? Improvements? Suggestions? Brainstorms? Truckloads of fertilizer? Post here.,On the floor at MSG... one perfect song after another...and we were beyond elated with disbelief and gratitude. This was truely a fantasy set list and, in my opinion, the best of my 8 show run.
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That is strange...I wonder what he is up to?? "I've stayed in every blue-light cheap hotel. Can't win for tryin. Dust off those rusty strings just one more time. Gonna make em shine."
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http://www.wolfgangsvault.com/concerts/support/downloads.html huge selection of Grateful Dead shows now for sale as downloads from Wolfgangs Vault. Many other bands too. Its a goldmine I am not sure how they squared this away with Rhino and the Band, but it all seems legit. Also I have no idea of the quality of the material or how it compares with the soundboards that already circulate. Not cheap either at $9.98 per set. It seems odd to me that we have been so careful to avoid vining officially released material, but WV appears to be selling officially released shows e.g Englishtown 77. Stil if Wolfgang's Vault can open such a huge download store, why can't this place???
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If any one happens to buy any shows(of any of the bands) in flac format could you please pm me the flac fingerprint for the show, for example: Hot Tuna 07-03-71 Fillmore Closing closingfillmore-n4d1t01.flac:2a6e2e591e8da4dc1647d7b1d9d5b946 closingfillmore-n4d1t02.flac:7e19fbd9302e04ea6766cea805319a34 closingfillmore-n4d1t03.flac:089e84bfd265ca05fe9a2c34aa3dd08c closingfillmore-n4d1t04.flac:7c30614fc2e9305eb5e2e17d8e3e7777 I have always been curious to know if wolfgangs shows are closer to source than the ones that circulate.
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I dunno what the deal is. I do know Wolfgang's Vault got off to a very sleazy start, buying up all Bill's tapes at the estate auction and putting the shows up for sale in complete disregard of the fact that they'd bought physical tapes but none of the accompanying rights. Litigation ensued, as you may imagine. At least, this is my recollection of events some years past. Still, that was some time ago and things may have changed. I've passed this info to the Rhino folks.
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I don't know about all that stuff but I will say that the quality of the reocrdings here on the vine yard for the most part is really good - good enough for me anyways! That goes for the recordings from etree also. I am with Mary - I don't mind when the Grateful Dead gets my money but I am not about to buy albums/recordings/downloads from an internet site that makes money for some dude. Plus I feel like I have supported the band just fine by buying their studio albums and the countless thousands of dollars I have spent on concert tickets the last 20 some years to not feel too bad about getting live recordings for free. "I've stayed in every blue-light cheap hotel. Can't win for tryin. Dust off those rusty strings just one more time. Gonna make em shine."
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There are some new people that have signed up for a quite a few vines. Before sending something to them, make sure they don't already have 3 vines. Not that there is any intention to do anything wrong, but as we have seen MANY times, newcomers can get easily overwhelmed.
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I noticed that too! I think it is a good idea in general to contact folks AND wait for a response prior to sending a vine to them anyways. There a few people here that are always around and I am confident sending them vines without contact/response but even old timers disappear for awhile and then that's how we end up losing vines and we have seen it is a quick downward spiral when multiple vines are sent to what becomes a black hole!! "I've stayed in every blue-light cheap hotel. Can't win for tryin. Dust off those rusty strings just one more time. Gonna make em shine."
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has fallen behind in the vineyard due to way too many things to mention but I am still here and will post in the next few days as I start sending them out If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
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I wasn't picking on you Hal. I phrased that wrong. You are most definitely one of the people I am confident sending vines to without getting a hold of first!! Much more important things come up for us all and vines get delayed .. no big deal! But for some it turns into vines not moving ever and just disappearing. "I've stayed in every blue-light cheap hotel. Can't win for tryin. Dust off those rusty strings just one more time. Gonna make em shine."
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Nope, didn't think that, but did think I needed to say I am around and no vine will die before it's time when I am involved. thanks, peace If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
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yes life caught up to me also , I posted vines going out wendsay . ooops must be an old timers thing, forgot about vetrans day . with a familly full of vetrans I feel like a dufus lol .. anyway all vines I have will be out thursday morning fur sure . all 6 of them.
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in my experience, I have bought three non-dead shows, they only come in mp3 format. That kinda sux.
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15 years 11 months
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Is there any good way to remind people to actually follow the vine guidelines when sending and requesting vines? I am specifically referring to notifying the person ahead of you of your address when you sign up for a vine, and it would also be good if everyone checked their messages before skipping someone on a vine. In my experience, people usually wait until you request their info before they will send it, and I've been skipped a couple of times because people didn't check their old messages where they would have found my info.Sorry for the gripe;-) Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor.
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I think your better off waiting until you are like three spots down before sending your addy. Takes more effort on your behalf to follow the vines, but some in the Vineyard are too lazy to go back to their old messages and refuse to send a simple PM to the next person. But overall, I think most of us in here are really considerate and we take care of each other. "That path is for, your steps alone."
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i.e. I need help. I can't find a program to make DVD copy. I got Rothbury vine with a SCI dvd show. Really want this one. Please, make me smile.Thanks in advance, Richard.
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Richard , when I had that rothbury vine I could not copy the SCI show . And we try`d to copy with both xp and vista computers . neither one worked for us . But nero 7 is what I use the most ( on the xp ) .
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You mean you did it with nero 7, or it didn't work?
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The SCI we could not copy . we are the ones who put the vista/ex compatible discs in with that vine . The SCI we could not do anything with .
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Hey there - fluffhead420 included the video to the Rothbury Vine maybe get a hold of him for any issues with the DVD video? Richard - Were you able to copy the other DVD's? "I've stayed in every blue-light cheap hotel. Can't win for tryin. Dust off those rusty strings just one more time. Gonna make em shine."
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If I (we) can make it I'll send a copy to you.
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17 years 5 months
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I got everything else from this vine. I'll PM Fluffhead. Thanks.
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My understanding is Wolfgangs cannot secure the rights to sell anything but MP3. The reason many of the other performances aren't for sale is because the bands won't authorize the sale. Not sure how they worked out rights to sell GD, even in MP3 format. I worked with a guy in NY who was trying to negotiate with them to find a way to make it all happen, but there are too many legal hurdles. There are ways to capture that music as they do allow you to stream it for free - but streaming music is only 320kbps at best. As Marye mentioned, they did acquire much of the material under less than glorious circumstances and there was litigation to try and shut them down completely. It is really sad, because in the right hands the world could have access to an absolute treasure trove of great concerts. Many of those shows are real gems. "when life looks like easy street, there is danger at your door"
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check that, streaming music is 192 kbps at best. However, further ;-) research indicates that Bill Sagan who founded WV has been able to negotiate with most of the artists to allow downloads, some even in FLAC. He's still having trouble with some of the bigger names like Hendrix, the Who, etc., but thinks he'll be able to get agreements with them too. Check out the full article here: http://forums.wolfgangsvault.com/forums/post/12372.aspx Like him or not, he has made it possible to hear much of this music for the first time since it was played orginally. One of my favorites is Pink Floyd 4-29-70 at the Fillmore West. One of the best PF concerts there is out there. "when life looks like easy street, there is danger at your door"
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Just about everything in Wolfgangs vault has been( and still is for now) available on legal trading sites in flac format for years. Now that there is some profit involved I would imagine these sites will have to remove them. Its probably just a matter of time until this affects etree and lossless legs. Its hard to believe they will allow us to keep trading if wolfgang is turning a profit. Might be a good time to get them while you can.
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I'd be pissed if they got rid of etree and what's next the vineyard?? Bogus!! Greed is all this is. "I've stayed in every blue-light cheap hotel. Can't win for tryin. Dust off those rusty strings just one more time. Gonna make em shine."
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I am gettin' all I can while the gettins good. :-)
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I hav`nt looked into it , but I was told that it`s there by a member of our vineyard . don`t remember who . And yes I`m getting everything I can get while the gettings good . :-)
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Everyone download a different year and then come back here and do some serious trading. Sorry but from a pessimistic point of view, I'd be sad if we couldn't trade anymore from this site. I have really enjoyed coming here and sharing GD shows with you all the last year or so. It still bugs me that someone (wolfgang) is going to profit big time on this. And that flac files will be replaced by mp3's. I hope I am reading way too much into all of this! "I've stayed in every blue-light cheap hotel. Can't win for tryin. Dust off those rusty strings just one more time. Gonna make em shine."
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was Bill Graham's real name. I strongly suspect the person who bought the tapes at the estate sale is not named Wolfgang but rather using Bill's name.
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And everyone! Sorry - my emotions have been strained, my dear grandmother passed away last week just 2 days past her 100th birthday. It was expected yet sad the way it went down, long story.. Dead.net is a very healing place for me to hang out in and I thank you all for that! "I've stayed in every blue-light cheap hotel. Can't win for tryin. Dust off those rusty strings just one more time. Gonna make em shine."
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I am on a couple of GD e-mail lists--deadheadsunite and deadshows. I think these are through yahoo.
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very sorry to hear abt. your grandmother . my wife just lost her grandmother 2 weeks ago .
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"I've stayed in every blue-light cheap hotel. Can't win for tryin. Dust off those rusty strings just one more time. Gonna make em shine."
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law of #megger tree fark been pretty much all over the place a long time; not much you can do about that.
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Heres a list of vines that I was the last on the list for and have had for awhile now. Let me know if anyone would like them. NRPS: 1 from 69, 2 from 70 Chicago 69 The Dead Greensboro 09 Early Fall 1981 "You know the one thing we need is a left handed monkey wrench....."
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I think someone is going to get swamed with vines when thay get 30 of them all at once !! let`s hope that don`t happen . It`s tough getting caught up when you get a ton at once .
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I was listening to China Cat/Rider from Winterland 2-24-74. I was wondering if the jam between the songs that was played in 73-74 had a specific name. Also, does anyone know why they stopped doing that jam. I freakin' love that little piece of music and it flows so well into Rider. Wishing all my fellow viners a great Holiday Season. "That path is for, your steps alone."
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Is it the Mind Left Body Jam or the Feeling Groovy Jam? I'll check it out tonight.
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http://deadessays.blogspot.com/2009/08/chinarider-early-years.html Weblink above gives credence to a Feeling Groovy jam, beginning w the Nassau show, 3/16/73. 6/26/74, Providence, is a really good version: check it out on Dick's Picks 12. Here, the jam is labeled Mind Left Body. The 12/6/73 China Cat is over 9 minutes long before transitioning into Rider.
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Thanks, Derek and Ted. The link (awesome stuff) seems to indicate that it was the "Feelin Groovy" jam that I was asking about. I guess when they brought China/Rider back after the hiatus, they simply decided not to include the Feelin Groovy jam. Too bad. "That path is for, your steps alone."
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The jam in btwn China and Rider on 2/22 is the MLB or Mind Left Body jam. Will check 2/23 and 2/24 later today and tomorrow.
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17 years 2 months
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Oops, they don't play it on 2/23 but they do play it on 2/24. It sounds to me like the MLB jam again but perhaps I don't know my jams because on archive.org a couple of people at least say that it is NOT the MLB jam. It is nice whatever it is. There is no doubt in my mind that the pre-retirement versions are better than the post-retirement ones, although I do think 12/29/77 is a gem.
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Check out the link from gr8fulTed. Very informative and interesting. "That path is for, your steps alone."
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I am billing right now, Mark!!! Haha! Yes, I checked it out last night, very interesting. The jam on 2/24 sounded to me like something that was played quite often during the period (and quite well) and I thought it was the MLB jam, but apparently, I am mistaken.