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    marye
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    Got ideas for how things should be run differently in the Vineyard? Improvements? Suggestions? Brainstorms? Truckloads of fertilizer? Post here.,On the floor at MSG... one perfect song after another...and we were beyond elated with disbelief and gratitude. This was truely a fantasy set list and, in my opinion, the best of my 8 show run.

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  • Estim8ed
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    My 2 Cents
    First of all, what a great thing this vine is!!!!!!!! Everyone should take a step back, now take another step back the people up front are getting squashed. Any lossless vine should be from an original source (ie. original sbd tape or aud recording.) The original recording is a WAV file that is converted to a lossless compression format for the sole purpose of reducing storage space. A lossless compression format (ie flac/shn) reduces the size of a file by approximately 40 to 50 percent without losing any of the original file's information, that is why the format is called lossless. where as a lossy compression format (ie .mp3,.aac,.wma) reduces the file size by approximatley 60 to 90 percent (depending on the bit rate of the compressed file) but the information removed from the original file is lost forever that is why these formats are refered to as lossy. Lossy formats were created for the puropse of being able to have more music in a smaller package. That is why you can get a cd player for your home or car that will play .mp3's .wma's and the like. That is why you can fit several shows on one cd in .mp3 format. Also these lossy formats are the reason I have 32 days of Good Ol Grateful Dead on my Ipod. Apple uses their own lossy compression for the ipod and to be quite honest they sound great. I commute along way , and in my car is where most of my music listening happens. I have a very high end sound system in my car and my Ipod plugs directly into my head unit so I don't have to fumble with thousands of cd's. IMHO you would be hard pressed to sit in my car and hear a phil bomb at 120db and be able to tell if it was a compressed format or not. Lossless compression was developed by audiophiles and was intended to be used for reducing the storage space necessary for storing digital music on a computer while maintaining the integrity of the original file. If you will notice, there are no players aside from a plugin or two for a computer audio player that will play shn or flac files. This is because the formats were developed for archival purposes. I myself copy the flac or shn files to my external hard drive where they stay forever, decompress the files to WAV without deleting the flac or shn, I then import the WAV files into Itunes and compress them into aac file and put them on my Ipod. I then delete the WAV files because they are the largest files which take up the most space and everything is great in my world. I have the music on my Ipod to take with me everywhere I go and I have the lossless file archived on my hard drive. Some people decompress the lossless files and burn the resulting WAV files to cd's or convert them to mp3's to make mp3 cd's or put on a portable mp3 player, it is your choice how you consume the product once you recieve it. Whatever tickles your spot. If you really want to get down to the nitty gritty of the sound quality issue, we should come up with a way to vine on vinyl because the original analog recording on good vinyl with the right record player would put this digital stuff to shame, but it would be impossible to vine this way. I think we should all need to educate ourselves so that we can take advantae of the technology we have (alot of which is free I might add) right at our fingertips for it is this technology that makes this vine possible. I mean really ,all of us remember trading tapes right?? Try to find the ying for your yang!! This beats tape trading hands down and here we have people almost getting hostile over some technology misunderstandings. As for the copy of a copy of a copy of a cd we are dealing with digital format, and I can rip (copy) the WAV files off of a cd and then burn them to a cd again and agian and again with the same results. There are differences in computer software and hardware as well as differences in storage media (cd's dvd's) If you usae a program called Exact Audio Copy (EAC) which is free on the internet and a good burning software like Nero, and you have a good name brand burning drive with quality blank cd's, cd's can be copied with no loss of qualtiy. You are taking an exact copy of the digital information on the cd, and writing the exact same digital information to a new cd. As for the volume differences, most burning software has volume adjustment settings or something called normalize volume for all tracks or something of that nature that if you don't understand how to use this feature or don't know it's being used can have adverse affects on the sound quality of your copies. Again I'm not trying to be condescending in any manner, just informative, but a thorough understanding of the technology and all of the aspects surrounding it will solve the discussions I'm seing on this thread. It's all about education, which is free on the internat reguarding all of the programs (software) formats (flac,shn,.mp3 etc..) and computer hardware. I'm just an old hippy who misses the Grateful Dead and has been taking advantage of this technology for the better part of ten years now!! When I found out I could download high quality recordings of my favorite music, I couldn't learn fast enough!!!! I by no means know it all, but I do have quite a bit of experience with all of these formats and technology. I hope this is helpful in the grand scheme of life, because I know how it is to be jonesing for Jerry licks and god forbid they be sub par sound quality when you get them!!! If I can be of any help to anyone I'm more than willing to help! All that being said, I will say again that no vine listed as losless should be sourced from a lossy file, period! Don't sweat the small stuff, and by the way It's ALL small stuff!!!
  • JackstrawfromC…
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    Its not that big a deal you guys
    Small vines, large vines, wav, flac I like them all and they all have advantages and disadvantages. I'm trying to obtain as many shows as possible and with how long it takes to get vines I think it is nice to get one large one rather than waiting for 2 or 3 smaller ones - you can knock out the entire year of 1977 in what 4 vines?? That's awesome! In addition, along those same lines I prefer flac its just faster and easier all around (especially for large vines, they have to be in flac to even be manageable, plus it is cheaper, I can go on and on). But hey it is also cool opening up a vine with one special show in wav format. I like all the vines and vine formats, keep them coming! "I've stayed in every blue-light cheap hotel. Can't win for tryin. Dust off those rusty strings just one more time. Gonna make em shine."
  • fluffhead042
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    I...
    sure would like to hear MITD say something! :( I hope he is well... "In a bed, in a bed, by the waterside I will lay my head. Listen to the river sing sweet songs, to rock my soul."
  • dstache
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    big vines v small vines
    If anyone knows how time-consuming and overwelming big vines could be, I do. If I had to do it all over again, maybe I would break them down even further or space them further out. Hindsight. The positives of big vines are less cost (4 DVDs at a time v 4 shipments of 1 DVD each), especially for our European-based brethren, and speedier acquisition of a whole hunk of music. But the sheer enormity can be overwelming and take away the gleeful feeling we should get upon receiving a vine. While big vines are more efficient, perhaps they are like Wal Mart, giving us what we want but leaving us with an empty feeling. As for the whole source controversy, I think we all agree that the seeder should provide all the information he or she has (WAV, Lossless) and avoid MP3. Just like with the official releases and life in general, variety is a good thing. We can pick and choose what we want. Just because I generally eschew officially released compilations (I prepurchased the new Pure Jerry though) and am now firmly planted on the lossless side here, doesn't mean that Rhino or my fellow viners should solely cater to my taste. This is the best community on the net as far as I am concerned and I am proud to be a part of it. In the end, the love we make...
  • Lopezz
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    I dont have a Mac, but
    There are some resources available: http://flac.sourceforge.net/download.html I have a lot of trouble with my wifes Ipod. I have my home stereo conected to my computer ; )
  • Birdsong1969NJ
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    I ask myself....
    What would MITD say????? Let's just be. "And I love the life I live And I'm gonna live the life I love"
  • ripple1974
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    another topic, sort of . . .
    are there any other viners here who use a mac? if so, what program(s) have you found to convert .shn or .flac into burnable .wav files for importing into itunes?
  • erickat
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    I appologise
    i was wrong to cast aspersions - and be negative - it's all a positive thing here, no matter how big or small or what format - i honestly don't know what got into me - sorry.
  • pomo1
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    I raise my hand
    I certainly missed Erickat. Maybe I am old-fashioned, but I convert whatever music I get in the vineyard to Wav for cds for my car, and I also convert it for use on my ipod. I do back up everything that comes to me in flac form on my external hard drive, but I almost never listen through my computer. So I guess I appreciate both formats. What I do not appreciate is people telling other people what or how they should vine. If someone prefers wav cds, cool for them. They do not need to be told to enter this century. If I want to convert a flac vine to wav bc I was asked to do so by people, that is my perogative. If that makes me old-fashioned, so be it. I think we all know that a very wise man said once a note leaves his guitar it is no longer his and people are free to do whatever they like with the music. The same should be true with vines. Once it is out there it is not really proprietary to the viner, it belongs to the vineyard. As to the mega-vines, I believe Dstache's efforts were heroic and I was happy to contribute to the 77 vine. However, my personal preference is for smaller, theme-based vines that surprise me with their creativity and the occassional show that I have been pining for. On the other hand, there are others who prefer to get it all at once. Indeed, a wise lady has said that there is room in the vineyard for all types of vines. So, in conclusion Erickat, you are greatly appreciated. Derek, you are greatly appreciated. In fact, everybody that contributes to and participates in the Vineyard is greatly appreciated. Lets not lose sight of how amazing it is that we can hear our favorite music long after it was created. Peace to everybody! "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." Albert Einstein
  • dstache
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    new vines
    The 68 lossless vine has been posted, as has the final part of the 1973 lossless vine (which I forgot about in my last post). That leaves only the remainder of the 1977 lossless vine outstanding from me. I will probably wait a week or two before working on this as I need a little break and have some other commitments. Oh Yeah and/or other MAC users, get back to me about changing my burning speed or whatever the problem is and I will change it before burning the final parts to the 1977 vine.
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Got ideas for how things should be run differently in the Vineyard? Improvements? Suggestions? Brainstorms? Truckloads of fertilizer? Post here.,On the floor at MSG... one perfect song after another...and we were beyond elated with disbelief and gratitude. This was truely a fantasy set list and, in my opinion, the best of my 8 show run.
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I`ll start putting something together .
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If there is interest I can start a vine. I have offered in the past with no takers. I have almost all of 1995 shows. I have listed the ones that I have already converted from tape to CD. These shows are Digital clones of Gen 1 DAT or 2nd Gen Tape. Yes I still have DAT. They are rotting away a slow death. I went DECK to CD Burner. I use a Sony RCD-W500C Burner. I love it and can copy a vine in 20 -30 minutes. Anyway the list below I have already transfered. I will be checking the reponses I see. PM if interested and I will start a vine. All SBD>C except 03-19. If there is a huge response I can vine all of the shows below in 3 waves.02-20 02-21 03-17 03-18 03-19 Af:DAT>C 03-23 03-26 03-27 04-02 04-07 06-02 06-25 07-06 07-09 Let the music flow.... Deadtaper
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Yes. I want as much '95 as possible. Yes, I'll take them in a vine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! '94 and '95 are my favorite 90s years. Jerry's voice sounded clearer.
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Im going to Chicago next week for the Furthur shows and will be up there for a week or so. I shouldent hold up any vines for very long but I just wanted to let everyone know. Peace and Love, Trevor "You know the one thing we need is a left handed monkey wrench....."
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Hey Trevor, I think you will enjoy the shows. I went last night to Radio City. It was the first time I was back there since I saw three shows from the 1980 run. Brought back a lot of memories. Last night was a fine show. Pretty tight and they actually sounded like the Grateful Dead at times. I got to see Viola Lee Blues and Mason's Children live. Phil is still amazing. Of course, it ain't the same without the Fat Man, but I really enjoyed the night. "That path is for, your steps alone."
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17 years 2 months
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Anyone notice that they changed the cassette card (j card) picture on deadlists.com? It was 9/23/72 forever.
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By a conservative count, I have 130 GD and JG shows in my possession that I have not listened to, most I haven't even converted yet. Thus, the acquisitions MUST desist. I'm gonna take a break from signing up for vines until I catch up (unless something I really want presents itself, such as the Feb 80 JGB vine Stuman is working on). I've removed myself from the vines that I was signed up for. Listening to a show a day, which is what I normally do, if not more, and I should return to full vining status in 4 months, haha. Of course, I will get out what I have and what I mistakenly receive. Don't worry, I'm not a quitter, I'm just on hiatus.
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"Here's my half a dollar if you dare .. double twist when you hit the air. Look at Julie down below .. the levee doing the dopaso"
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I was wondering if you lose any quality or integrity by moving or I should say copying your flac/shn files from one external hard drive to another one?? I'd like to organize my music files across my various HD's but won't do it if it compromises quality. Thanks in adance for any advice!! "Here's my half a dollar if you dare .. double twist when you hit the air. Look at Julie down below .. the levee doing the dopaso"
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they will all copy 100% faithfully. Don't forget to make back ups as well...I know to my cost that it's worth the trouble
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I have transfered files between 3 diferent hard drives and I hav`nt noticed any loss of quality.
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Enjoy the "hiatus."Just don't disappear from Dead.net completely. "That path is for, your steps alone."
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who helped me add to my Joe Walsh collection. I don't suppose anyone has some good Three Dog Night shows do they? If you know of any PM me, I have lots to trade. Thanks
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I am like Derek. I have a lot of unconverted flac files. I have at least 200 converted shows plus another....um....30+ of unconverted. When I get a flac vine, I just burn a copy of the DVD and pass it on and convert the stuff later..or maybe not at all. I am not dropping out but I am slowing down. :-) I am posed and ready to pounce on deadtaper's '95 vine when it comes out!
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Don't we have a whole lifetime to listen to the music we get from these vines? All I need are external hard drives, good organization and a good system for converting and listening. I say keep on vining no matter what! "And I love the life I live And I'm gonna live the life I love"
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I keep a good rotation, around 5 new cd's a week. Of course I always have room for my favorites. Hearing Garcia count everyone through an early version of Loser on the Perro tapes is classic!
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I'm reaching my saturation point too. I have more than I can listen to in a lifetime in shn/flac format. My wife has kindly pointed that out to me several times ;-) Lopezz, good idea to use R/W CDs. I tend to playback the shn/flacs using Foobar, and when I find a really good show I'll burn to CDs. My goal is to be able to set up a set of hard drives and throw a wireless signal from the PC to my stereo so I can use the PC as my jukebox. No more CD player at all and no need to burn CDs except for road trips. I have Foobar and TLH at work too, so I really don't need CDs. I spend most of my time on trying to organize and catalog what I have. The more I add, the further (!) behind I get on that side, so it is time to slooooooow down. "when life looks like easy street, there is danger at your door"
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Whenever I reach the saturation point, it always becomes a matter of quality over quantity.For example, mp3 improves to Shn/Flac and the next groove will be 24-bit. I'd sure like to hear a show or two of those Apr.'71, Fillmore shows el TejonCosmico was trying to sell earlier, wouldn't you? Where does the time go? "
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Hey all - Yesterday I jumped on the bus in Broomfield and am riding it the rest of the tour to the Bill Grahm Civic Auditorium for Phils Birthday. I may get a little back-logged on a couple of vines but will certainly get caught up when I return. As far as slowing down - I just bought a couple of new HD's from Sam's Club. So I am pushing on - keep those vines coming :-) "Here's my half a dollar if you dare .. double twist when you hit the air. Look at Julie down below .. the levee doing the dopaso"
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Lopezz...a JW vine or add it to a FWGV vine perhaps? I'm a big JW fan. JackStraw - I'm jealous - following them across the country - awesome to be able to do that. If I wasn't busy, I'd come down to BG Civic Auditorium and meet you there for a beer at least ;-) "when life looks like easy street, there is danger at your door"
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15 years 8 months
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Keep a song in your heart. some Joe Walsh please. Greg
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I've got a beauty from Oroboros, 11-11-81 pre FM King Biscuit Flower Hour. Also another good one from Stuman, James Gang 9-8-06 AudMatrix. I have a very quiet audience recording from 8-19-97, a SBD from 11-24-73 University of Texas, a live compilation from 81-91, and then some Eagles concerts, 4 I think.
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Hey all.... been AWOL awhile.... and have some vines to get out this week.... mea culpa and my apolgies.... BUT!!! What is the best way to burn 24 bit to DVD or to CD for playback purposes! I have no knowledge... but the few 24 bit shows I do have sound considerably better even through the computer add on speakers I use.... so I want to get them onto my DVD surround sound system but have failed to do so so far. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Raymond
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Cosmic Badger wrote a nice piece on this.Page 10 about 1/2 way down. Quote" 24 Bit avatar On February 7th, 2010 cosmicbadger said: can sound fantastic Witness the mindboggling 24 Bit versions of the of the fabulous April 71 shows that are appearing these days (the latest is 4-26-71). The main drawbacks are that the files are MUCH bigger and you cannot convert them to WAV (without losing all the audio benefits). And of course the audio source must be of good quality to be be able to make a difference. To listen you have two main choices Play through a 24 Sound Card or Digital Audio Converter. Your PC is unlikely to have such a thing internally. I have an external 24 Bit box that sits between my computer and my hi-fi. Its not the best you can get but it does the job. Burn to an Audio DVD or Video DVD and play through a suitable player. You can find out much more about entering the world of 24 bit by reading this http://24bit.turtleside.com/ and through this discussion http://www.shnflac.net/forum.php?action=viewtopic&topicid=10231 WOW as I write I see that a new 24 Bit Matrix of 74-6-23 Jai Alai Fronton has just appeared."
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Any interest in an 8 show SHN/FLAC Led Zeppelin vine? I should soon be receiving 8/31/69, 1/22/73, 5/13/73, 2/12/75, 2/28/75, 3/5/75, 5/25/75 and 6/1/77. Most are supposed to be of very good sound quality.
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"And I love the life I liveAnd I'm gonna live the life I love"
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"And I love the life I liveAnd I'm gonna live the life I love"
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16 years 6 months
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I will be away all weekend. Can somebody sign me up for the '95 vine part 1 if it gets posted? I have been waiting since the middle of the week, and I bet it will get posted when I am not around to sign up. Thks
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Stu, I picked up this entire show tonight from LL. I'll send a copy over to you. "when life looks like easy street, there is danger at your door"
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Unclejon, I also got it from LL but acording to the notes it is only set 2 and set 3 . I would love to have that entire show , I`ll go over to LL and look for it . save you the postage if i find it . Thank you Unclejon . *** Clean***Sober***Proud***
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I just looked into LL and Workingmans, the recent torrents uploaded there are only sets 2 & 3. this is the complete source gd66-11-29.sbd.ret.20448.sbeok.shn . But thanks for the kind offer Unclejon . And thank you Ltapilot ! If anyone has any 66 that is not on my 66 shn/flac vine please let me know . we could work a trade or something . Hope you all have a nice weekend !! *** Clean***Sober***Proud***
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Good catch Stu! Now I want that first set too! "when life looks like easy street, there is danger at your door"
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17 years 2 months
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Since at least one person wants it, I will vine it! I received the first 4 shows yday and am listening to a very hot 2/28/75 right now (google "rampaging cajun" and "led zeppelin" to find out info on it if you want). The No Quarter was awesome. Once I receive the other 4 shows (sometime next week in all likelihood) I will vine the whole thing.
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Oh I will bet big that more than one person is interested ;-) "Here's my half a dollar if you dare .. double twist when you hit the air. Look at Julie down below .. the levee doing the dopaso"
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I bought 2 From the Vault years ago, when it came out. I didn't pay much attention when the reissue appeared, but after hearing the 8/23 Alligator/Caution on the Taper's Section, I'd be willing to shell out again for 2 From the Vault if I knew that was what appears on the bonus disc. Can anyone confirm that's the date from which the bonus tracks are taken?Thanks for your time. Steve
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According to www.deaddisc.com/disc/Two_From_The_Vault.htm it is possible you have those additional tracks already... quote 'There was some confusion on the original release of this set as to the date of the recordings. Initially the music was thought to be from both August 23 and August 24 1968. It has since been determined though that the music on Two From The Vault is all from August 24, 1968. The additional tracks added as a third disc for the expanded edition are from August 23rd, 1968. The Alligator > Caution > Feedback sequence that forms the third CD in the expanded edition has previously been released on; * The Golden Road (1965-1973), Grateful Dead, 2001 * Anthem Of The Sun, Grateful Dead, 2003 (expanded edition) ' unquote
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Thanks for the information!
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hey I was not criticising you in any way about launching those April 71 vines....you can't be expected to read minds :-) what is important is that someone got those shows out because they are soooo good. Happy that it is you.
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I too have been unable to burn as of yet... but even just listening on my upgraded computer speakers.... these 24 bit are fantastic! Esp. this '71 run.... I also DL'ed an '85 show that was better but not quite as pronounced as the Fillmore shows of '71. Maybe this weekend I will actually figure out how to play them from the DVD player... Raymond
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As soon as I get Portland I'm going to seed the winter 2010 tour including phil's birthday. There will be a couple of shows in 24bit format too. "Here's my half a dollar if you dare .. double twist when you hit the air. Look at Julie down below .. the levee doing the dopaso"
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Hey viners!The Bus is posting his JGB 1981 project on bt.etree. I have d/l part 1 and am getting ready to d/l part 2. If any one out there wants to collaborate on this project PM me and we can start a joint vine. If not no worries I'll keep plugging away, parts 3 and 4 are up now and I think there will be more parts coming. Speaking of joint... (~) : } "Here's my half a dollar if you dare .. double twist when you hit the air. Look at Julie down below .. the levee doing the dopaso"
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17 years 4 months
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Any one have this one and would be willing to Vine or trade? Thanks in advance, Marty
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16 years 6 months
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Does anyone have any live YES from the '73 - '74 Tales from Topographic Oceans tour? Not sure if YES is trade friendly. I had some stuff years ago and was lost when the computer died.
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I have a show or 2 but not from that tour. I'd be up for some mid-70's Yes. BTW, I got the Led Zep shows in over the weekend. I'll have an 8 show SHN/FLAC vine posted later this week.
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I also have some Yes , but also not from The Topograghic tour . I`ll look into the HD`s and post what I have later . *** Clean***Sober***Proud***
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I saw some questions around 24 bit. I just figired this out myself so passing the info along. After downloading the flac files I drag them into an opensource program called dvd-audiofile version 0.60. I then hit the create ISO button. I then use Roxio to burn the ISO image onto dvd (note this is essentially burning a data disc onto dvd). This creates a DVD Audio disc which will play in DVD players that can decode that. I haven't found many sources worthy of this so far but at least I figured out how to do it. If you have questions let m eknow. Marty