Grateful Dead

The chink in the armor for DVD-M disk and other long store media would be high cost of ceramic or glass technology to be lost to another physical technology. We will always have two types of media for music/movies. One for the masses and one for the stubborn and older people not hip to the jive. Just like newspapers. I like newspaper form instead of buttons. After your done with a newspaper, you can roll it up and swat things like pests and people who ask to borrow your Dave's picks. It can also be used as a low cost telescope and giant spitwad straw. All been tried by the way.

....unless you want something tomorrow. Then they're ok.
I just tested a CD-R I burned fifteen years ago. It played. Then again, my media room is dark as fuck. Bonus points!!
CD-R ethics. Hilarious. That is one of many reasons why I come here on almost a daily basis. Faceplant into Rokk.

Been listening to some earlier Dead lately after a little run of '73 shows. Gave DaP10 12/12/69 and DP16 11/8/69 a listen over the last couple of days and spinning DP22 2/23-24/68 now with that excellent Viola Lee Blues. Seemed like a good choice after finishing the first snow shoveling of the year on a gorgeous sunny day in the Bitterroot. Been a while since I listened to any of these and they hit the spot lately.

Interesting discussion of an area I am ignorant of. It makes sense, though, what has been written. I made a load CD-R copies around 10 years ago, mainly of cds I already had, but also of ones borrowed or of digital downloads.
I used these on long car journeys, but as they have long since stopped, I have stored them all in the attic...in direct line of sunlight. And lo and behold, a good many of them no longer play.

I didn't know you could buy CD-R editions from Amazon. This would only be attractive to me if they were of limited edition cds that are now sold out. The digital downloads don't have the sleeve notes. The one I have just looked up is the Muddy Waters double cd Hoochie Coochie Man Volume 2 Chess Masters on Hip O Select. It costs a small fortune for the regular cd, the download is cheap-but missing info-so a CD-R might be the way to go. But I couldn't see how to access such a thing, if, indeed it is available for this release.

I spent some time looking into the CD-R situation and it seems that the main issue is the longevity of the CD-R and the fact that the longevity is dependent on how the disc is treated and the specifics of it's production. As Icecrmcnkd noted in his nice summary, the CD-R uses a dye layer. This dye layer is apparently sensitive to light exposure, to the extent that a couple weeks of direct sunlight may kill it. The information that I found indicated that there is significant variation between the light sensitivity and longevity of different CD-R discs depending on the type of dye layer used. There are a variety of factors involved, but the upshot seemed to be that a CD-R is not actually equivalent to a regular stamped audio CD and is a lesser quality product, to at least some degree, with a greater potential for failure.

Amazon makes clear that they are using this approach to save on warehouse costs and to make it possible to offer out of print releases in very limited quantities. That's great, seems like a good use of the technology. My problem is just with amazon selling CD-R copies of new releases that have an actual CD release available, or I as I can't help but feel, selling me a slightly inferior product when the full quality version is readily available. My apologies to any bored by my rambling OCD diversion into CD-R technology and the ethics of CD-R sales.

Perhaps, but as you suggested we are getting an inferior product basically at full price. If they are going to do this, spend the extra money and get a professional quality machine and do it right. We pay the same price, get an inferior product and Amazon likely makes more money per CD than they do selling a standard CD that was made using the standard, higher quality manufacturing process.

It's a slipper slope, how long until Dave's Picks start coming to us as CDRs. I'm against it. I will pay an extra fifty cents or a dollar to have a real CD.

Good one.

That DaP 5 is probably the best. The only real challengers for me would be DaP 23 (1/22/78), 29 (2/26/77), 11 (11/17/72), 17 (7/19/74), and 25 (11/6/77). But then there's 15 (4/22/78) . . .

I recently went looking for an old Chet Baker CD, and it's only available now as a download, or as one of those CD-Rs from Amazon. Seems legit, as it's licensed by the estate of Chet Baker. The cost of keeping a CD in print is prohibitive when the demand is low, but if one still wants a physical product with all the liner notes and cover art, then Amazon will burn you a copy for a few dollars more than the download. I think a Bob Seger CD I was looking for can be printed that way too.

For someone who doesn’t want to do digital downloads or doesn’t have a burner, then on-demand CD-R might be the way to go.
Maybe some bands are going to ditch their record label’s CD factory and use digital downloads with the option of an on-demand CD-R.

Bears.......

beat the Lions.

Not really any different than selling a digital download.

They just need to make it very clear that it is a CD-R, because CD-R’s are not the same as CD’s. Anybody who claims that they are the same is lying.

CD-R’s store data with organic dye molecules which will slowly break down over time, but it depends on storage conditions. I have 20-year old CD-R’s that still play.

Factory made CD’s store data on a thin film of metal. The data is pressed into the metal film with a negative, very similar to how vinyl is pressed. This allows for a rapid stamping process and mass production.
But, as demonstrated by Rhino with every GD release, if you half-ass the process and don’t use quality control there will always be a batch of defective discs sent out to customers.

I would not buy an on-demand CD-R, only factory pressed CD’s.
But, if there was something that I wanted and it was only available as an on-demand CD-R or a digital download, I would do the download and burn my own CD-R.

Also note:
DVD+/-R uses organic dye.

DVD M-Disc uses a ceramic and/or glass layer that is supposed to last for 1000 years when stored properly.
United States Patent US008389095 B2
Date of Patent: Mar. 5, 2013
OPTICAL DATA STORAGE MEDIA CONTAINING SUBSTANTIALLY INERT LOW MELTING TEMPERATURE DATA LAYER

BD-R HTL (high-to-low reflectivity, the burned area is darker) is also a type of ceramic and/or glass and averages the equivalent of 500 years in simulated testing.

BD-R LTH (low-to-high, burned area is brighter) is organic dye similar to CD-R and DVD+/-R.

If they are licensed then it would seem the artist get some sort of cut. Perhaps it's a way for artists to get around labels and bring CDs to market at either less cost or by giving up less of a share to corporations.

Then the issue becomes one of the quality. If this is the direction music is heading, it really makes digital more viable and the physical product that much less desirable??

In any case, very interesting.. thanks for sharing. It gives us something to be on the lookout for.

Edit: I finally found the 'hidden in plain sight' language on the Flaming Lips CD. I had to look several times. Sneaky. I guess it's legit. Weird though. I need to give this some thought. Do they look the same as CDs (i.e. have artwork or professional images and detail on them or are they like the ones I make.. with the title hand-written by a black or blue sharpie?

"Note: This product is manufactured on demand when ordered from Amazon.com. [Learn more]"

Giving this more thought.. I agree with Cone Kid's comment (above this), this is a lesser quality product and should be significantly discounted, not $12 a CD. I guess the advantage, assuming they are being honest, is they are more eco-friendly?? but are the really? I gut tells me we should demand higher quality. If they had professional equipment instead of an industrial version of my CD burner.. wouldn't that be equally eco-friendly? Methinks we are getting an inferior product and Amazon wins the consumer loses.