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    marye
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    Nuclear power! Carcinogenic cell phones! The Stanley Cup! and the usual parade of kids dancing and shaking their bones, politicians throwing stones, etc. Discuss.

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  • sherbear
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    hey- fluffanutter-@
    You bet?If so...how much? Why... you ask? Is a kitten a cat? If so...then- It is indeed>>> a delicious meal. "May I have another peanutbutter fluffanutter sandwich, please,xO" Love you,xo
  • fluffanutter
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    cats eat the hawks
    sorry, ted
  • Gr8fulTed
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    Hawks chasing the 'cats
    Who will survive? Stay tuned!
  • Anna rRxia
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    Long Live The Dalai Lama
    It is so had to hear about the Tibetan struggle.... One thing for sure -- When you have the Buddha of Compassion for an enemy you know you're in trouble. He keeps coming back again, and again, and again. There is no getting rid of him!
  • fluffanutter
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    The Ongoing Tragedy in Tibet
    News Analysis from Nationofchange.org: "It is now very obvious to the world community: something is very wrong and very bad in Tibet to make these peaceful monks and nuns set themselves on fire. The whole world is watching in sadness and shock, and every time another Tibetan dies from these acts, the collective heartbreaks, but the world's eyes are also opened. Why, why, why? What is happening? The Tibetan hunger strikers (who just ended their 30 day fast outside the United Nations) pointed out that "undeclared martial law" is in effect. Obviously the immense concern is a reality: Chinese officials conducted a formal closure to all foreigners (and journalists) to the Tibetan Autonomous Region (TAR) from February 20 to March 31, and have many monasteries locked down. It is during this time period that the majority of protesting Tibetan monks and nuns has been setting themselves on fire. Thirty Tibetans are confirmed to have self-immolated since the first on February 27, 2009. But alarmingly - and most important - it is over the past two weeks (since March 16) that most of these self-immolations have taken place. These suicides are occurring in the blackout period happening right now, during the crackdown by Chinese authorities on all monasteries of Tibet. Many monasteries are in lockdown, and all communication to the outside world has been shut down." (end of partial story) *********************************************************************************** *********************************************************************************** There are several inaccuracies in this story about Tibet. The monks and nuns who do this are FORMER monks and nuns, having given up their vows beforehand. Lay people have also done this who have never been ordained. Of the 30 who have self-immolated, most have come not in the last two weeks, but previous to that. Other than these inaccuracies, it is a relief to see the truth of the current situation in Tibet here in NationOfChange. The reality is that China is an economic powerhouse and they have always considered Tibet to be their "Western Treasure-house". They have raped and looted the country repeatedly and have settled so many Han Chinese in the area that they now comprise the majority of the population. Lhasa has now become just another Asian concrete jungle. There is nothing the US or other Western countries will do to offend the Chinese hand that props up their depleted economies as long as they continue to buy Euros and Dollars. The Chinese know that by repressing the Tibetans culture, not allowing them to learn and read and speak Tibetan and sterilizing Tibetan women they will, eventually, totally wipe out Tibetan cultural identity right down to the gene pool. They have done it to other cultures in the past. The big time for the Tibetan movement was in the mid to late 90s when Hollywood put out several major motion pictures and it was a "cause celeb" for awhile. But then the trend faded and so did hopes for Tibet. Obama will make nice noises through Hillary but in reality nothing will be done. So the poor Tibetans are left to fend for themselves. It is a humanitarian tragedy of epic proportions. The Tibetan culture has much to teach us about love and compassion. Unfortunately, their leaders in the last century chose to isolate themselves at a critical juncture when they should have been forming alliances. British colonial rule would have been far better than Mao's designs. Six million Tibetans now have to pay the heavy price. The Dalai Lama looks in utter misery, unable to even visit Nepal, never mind his homeland. Such is the power of the Chinese government.
  • fluffanutter
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    Looks Like
    Palm Sunday again!
  • TigerLilly
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    Good one
    fluffanutter! The guy's gotta go!!!!
  • fluffanutter
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    "Idiot Wind" blowing in Syria
    Dedicated to: Bashar al-Assad Idiot wind blowing every time your move your mouth Blowing down the backroads heading south Idiot wind blowing every time you move your teeth You're an idiot babe It's a wonder that you still know how to breathe. Idiot wind blowing through the flowers on your tomb Blowing through the curtains in your room Idiot wind blowing every time you move your teeth You're an idiot babe It's a wonder that you still know how to breathe Idiot wind blowing like a circle around my skull From the Grand Coulee Dam to Capitol Idiot wind blowing every time you move you teeth You're an idiot babe. It's a wonder that you still know how to breathe. Uhhh, Bashar? Could you please stop slaughtering your own people? We know the Russians, Chinese and Iranians support you, so by some freak karmic happenstance you get to sit upon your throne, the head of a ruthless family bent on power at all costs, and murder your people by the thousands while we watch on our big screen TVs. We need to detonate an EMP weapon in the geographic center of Syria that will allow the Syrian people to rise once and for all and put an end to your tyranny! An idiot wind is indeed blowing through the streets of Damascus...
  • marye
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    Johnman!!!
    so happy to see you. Best current event we could ask for!!
  • fluffanutter
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    Pink Slime -- It's What's For Dinner! (Yuk!)
    For those of us who still eat meat, and eat hamburger, we have to deal with the newest processed product from the meat industry: Pink slime. Using a centrifuge they separate the lean from the waste that also contains feces and urine which they then use a solvent (ammonium nitrate) to kill the harmful bacteria with. The resulting product is disgusting. Making hamburger patties with a a couple of pounds of this stuff results in your hands being covered with slime and fat. Then, when you fry it in a pan on the stove, there comes the strong odor of amonia. Judging by the shrink in the pan I would say that a full 30% of the product is pink slime. The story on this went viral and in a week people were recoiling from this product in horror. In droves people stopped buying it. The result is that in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Nebraska and other beef processing centers people are being laid off and the politicians are lining up to eat slime burgers and pat their tummies saying "Yummy!" for the camera. Disgusting on top of disgusting. The moral of the story is: You shouldn't be eating meat. If you're eating meat, you shouldn't be eating hamburger. If you're eating hamburger it shouldn't be pink slime, it should be organic (doesn't cost but $1 more a pound). The only thing I feel bad about is that 1.5 million more cows will be led to the slaughter because this processed product is not being used. A graphic example of why we should all be vegetarians.
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Nuclear power! Carcinogenic cell phones! The Stanley Cup! and the usual parade of kids dancing and shaking their bones, politicians throwing stones, etc. Discuss.

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Considering the ongoing rhetoric that's been coming out of the Right since President Barack "I'm Not a Muslin" Obama won the election, it flabbergasts me to utter stupification how any even remotely (and I mean REMOTELY) intelligent American can get behind ANYTHING that side is saying. They continue to knod their heads like good little robots whenever the current talking points come on their beloved Fox News, and everything else gets ignored. And then they sit there and point their fingers at their television sets, claiming Obama's trying to take their rights away when it was the party that came before that restricted more of our Constitutional rights than any president in a long, long time. I'm not one of those conspiracy theorists, but is there something in the water out in the middle of the country? Some chemical or remote transmitter that shuts down a citizen's ability to take in information and process it like the rest of us? How do these people think that Romney & Ryan are "one of them" and actually concerned with their station in this nation? Can't they see that, by reducing/restricting taxes on the wealthy means it comes out of the middle class, thus reducing the middle class to a higher-income version of the poor? I swear, whenever I talk about these issues with my Republican friends, I want to throw my hands in the air and scream, "I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!!!"
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I think it's the deep-fried butter sticks they consume at their fairs. Either that or Koch Brothers sponsored alien anal probes radiating out from Wichita (a stupid chip is left implanted) Seriously, how people, other than the top 2%, can vote for Republicans is a modern miracle of conditional advertizing! We're all doomed.
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a ww II vet. called into npr the other day to say that for the first time in his adult life he would not be voting for the pres. he then said the best thing to do from now on is to just place whoever has the most money into office and into congress. Aren't we already pretty close to that? Don't the koch bros.tell their puppets (boner and his cronies) how to vote and what to say? which laws to pass so that american "job creators" have an easier (more profitable) time going over seas to exploit brown people and destroy their environment due to no environmental regulations? Aren't the insurance and oil companies together so far up their asses that they make them cough? I guess i haven't been paying attention. to be honest, i can't believe the repoobs. didn't go for the jugular this time around and announce their ticket of christie /limbaugh (maybe next time). THAT really would have brought the sheeple out of the woodwork. ah yes, the great american plutocracy...........brought to you by at least 51% of american sheeple.ps. anyone seen "idiocracy"; funny "b" movie, but probably more prophetic than it's given credit for.
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if you have not come across this before, give it a listen. Enjoy Michael D. Higgins (who was elected president of Ireland last year) is fed up with over-the-top Tea Party rhetoric, and he isn't afraid to show it. Listen to him call out radio host Michael Graham on everything from health care to foreign policy in this heated exchange from 2010. http://www.upworthy.com/a-tea-partier-decided-to-pick-a-fight-with-a-fo…
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a most passionate, accurate and well stated argument/condemnation indeed!
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that the war will be over when the Isreali tank driver is convicted of muder for running over a peaceful protester nonviolently protesting. Until then they (IAFs) are all terrorists.
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PLEASE GO BACK TO THE OLD ONE. NO DOUBT THIS IS DUE TO CRAMMING IN ALL THE STORE STUFF. HOW ABOUT SPLITTING THEM UP?
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17 years 4 months
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Good luck to all who fight the rising storm waters in Louisiana and Mississippi. Pumps are keeping up, and the levees are holding, in Jefferson Parish this morning. The French Quarter looks deserted, except for 3 people from the Weather Channel. How small is the font on this new comment form?? I'm tilting the eyeglasses way down!
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As the speeches go on it is so clear that the men and women who are giving then are strong and passionate in their vigor. Even John Kerry who always seemed like a vampire who came back from the Dead at then end of his stump speech came across with such strength and vigor it was truly astounding. If John Kerrry can burn down the house we may just be looking at at runaway race! (Amazing!!)
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Is there a chat room for dead.net anymore? Yeah it's been a long time since I got on this site, busy working and new girlfriend, etc. Wish you all well. "Once in a while you get shown the Light in the strangest of places if you look at it right..."
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17 years 4 months
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Thank goodness for football! College games and now pro action are back! Will the Raiders be good this year? I'm not sure what to expect from the Chiefs.
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Not sure how many of ya'll out there are fans of Black Flag, but this really caught my eye. On Black Flag's Facebook wall, they posted a cut-out from BAM Magazine circa '83/84: "Say It Loud! I'm A Deadhead And Proud! Someone sent me a copy of your Grateful Dead review [in which BAM contributor Mark Levinton wrote, 'So-called adventuresome people who dig Black Flag probably wouldn't be caught alive at a Grateful Dead concert.'] I saw that Grateful Dead show in Irvine! I've seen them three times in Oakland and once in San Diego since the Irvine show. I've also seen them many times in years past. The Dead is my favorite band. What we find is that there are Dead fans at our shows outside of California. California's music scene is remarkably segmented. Bands like Black Flag and the Dead draw all kinds of music fans to performances *outside* of California. But maybe things are changing. I saw some Black Flag shirts at the San Diego Dead show. I feel that in terms of approach and music the Dead have been a big influence on Black Flag from the beginning. We love the Dead. Glad you do, too!" UTTERLY MIND-BLOWING!!!!!
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As one who worked at BAM back in the day, I get an even greater kick out of this. A blast from the past. And, of course, well said, Mr. Ginn!
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So, we've got this bogus quasi-movie going around seeming to demean the the Prophet Mohamed and causing his followers to do well-timed deadly actions. Not only has the movie caused the killing of the US ambassador to Libya, it has caused outright pitched battles in Eqypt, Tunisia and Yemen among possibly others world Arab countries. Added to this is the possibility that the movies makers mis-directed the entire cast about it's supposed plot and content of the highly polemical and incendiary flicks This has in turn given rise to the supposition that the film itself, shadowy as it is, is a tactical arm of Al Queda sewing mayhem and destructio,,
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The BBC Radiophonic Workshop is to reopen. Home of electronic experimentation, it was created in 1958 to produce sound effects and new music for radio and then television. An extraordinary pool of talent was located in those Maida Vale Studios on Delaware Road, including Daphne Oram, Delia Derbyshire, Dick Mills, Desmond Briscoe, Brian Hodgson, John Baker, David Cain, Paddy Kingsland and many more. The sound of the 'Doctor Who' theme that Delia Derbyshire helped to create, signaled the retreat behind the sofa for many a frightened child, myself included. The new Creative Director is Matthew Herbert, musician, master samplist, sound collagist and electronic wizard. It will now be based entirely online. Herbert's appointment is certainly promising. Here's to the future! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19568120 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Radiophonic_Workshop
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Understand that hundreds of Daves Picks vol 3 were stolen in shipment. I live abroad and find that shipment takes 37 days,three times longer than Amazon dealers arrange. My copy of Spring 1990 supposively arrived in Arlington accofrding to USPS tracking info on the 24th of August but disappeared before delivery. The shipping problems are a strain on us anda certainly on you guys and Rhino. Please keep us updated about the website's experience with USPS,which may not be as bad as previously thought. Maybe you guys should use the same shippers as Amazon dealers.
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That after 17 years The Grateful Dead continue to pull in not only widely held historical interest but ennui--like historical minutiae. Not to mention performances from spin-offs that the the genre they they themselves made famous..... shhhh, the baby is waking up. (this thing has now crossed two generational lines.) Is it worth all the stuff written & performed? Perhaps only as a sidebar to the history of LSD, whose letters are more favorably writ large on the dollar bill than USA.
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Though I've been espousing an electoral victory for the current president for the last few months-- to the point of taking all bets and giving ridiculous odds, with the release of the latest polls I am ready to call it an official victory without chance if loss. The sad thing? Nothing will change until perhaps the next 4 year annual melee.... I find it unutterably sad that the best president elected since JFK has to be chopped off at the knees by by a bunch of morally bankrupt corporate whores.
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listening to him speak to the united nations council today reinforced the feeling of how nice it is to have an intelligent human being as a president. he really is an incredible orator..........and then i try to picture geo. bush jr. speaking in front of this same group of people and wonder how anybody in the free world (or just the world,period) ever took the usa seriously during his two demented terms. i imagine that leaders around the world would mark their calendars for the next u.n. meeting so that they wouldn't miss having a good laugh should the great tex-ass speak. even with obama's hands tied, he's light years better than what we had (or might have).
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Here's a link to a funny little video starring Samuel L. Jackson that is the one true glimmer of hope I've seen in this presidential election season, since it uses humor, and not fear tactics, to persuade its viewers to vote: http://wtfu2012.com/
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Too bad Jackson isn't debating Romney or his bat-boy. Thanks for posting Mike!.
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would've gladly been romney's veep, but the poor child was just too tired from his sexual marathon with the middle class here. he's building his stamina for '16 when him and his senatorial sweety will be running mates (assuming obama wins).
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to all the colon cleansing cross-dressers out there, please accept my apology for associating you health conscious, socially adventurous and fun-luvin' folks with the likes of walker and ryan. political disgust got the best of me for a moment.
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GAUSHALA,Kathmandu, Nepal: A man died after he was stung by snake at Ekrahiya VDC in Mahottari district last night. He is 50-year-old Amilakh Mandal of Ekrahiya VDC-4. According to his family, Mandal was bitten by a cobra while spreading manure in the paddy field at Dhirapur-5 on Wednesday evening. He was first taken to a witch doctor for treatment and rushed to local hospital only after treatment by the witch doctor did not work. But it was too late by the time he reached the hospital and he died on way to the hospital, it is stated. Moral of the story: Taken them to the hospital first and alert the witch doctor his services are needed as the hospital. Seems like a sensible policy to me....
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The BBC analysis is that the three upcoming debates will not serve to sway the election. Rather, Americans are being prepared for the fiscal cliff, the slashing of social welfare programs to avoid a massive raise in the interest on the national debt. Whoever gets elected, bad news is coming...
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We're about to be bombarded with full press Karl Rove and Koch Brother funded commercials. If your TV set is in Florida, Ohio or Colorado, watch out!! I'm off to the Joint for Furthur!!
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so all we're getting is disingenuous spin on the propositions by the usual suspects on both sides.
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Tell vague lies for an hour and a half was more than I could take. Obama not being fired up was disappointing. Neither had any good ideas for the future. Goooooo Mayans!
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Sooooo besides all of the garbage in the news I would like to think that the Love for Levon event I attended in New Jersey last night was a spiritually healing and lovely event for one of music's most revered men. I have not teared up and had goosebumps from a live music experience in too long. This review puts it fairly poignantly http://www.jambands.com/news/2012/10/04/roger-waters-gregg-allman-john-…
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Without need for a concise history in the last 20 years of Afghanistan, the Mujahadeen fought and extraordinarily bloody war to oust the Russians from that desolate country. The Communist president, Najibullah and his brother were allowed to remain under UN protection (though the UN were merely public relations window-dressing without weapons, with the help of the Mujahadeen) Najibullah was left in relative obscurity in the diplomatic quarter of Kabul. The Taliban showed up after the Mujahadeen realized the impossibility of holding on to the war-torn country. Najibulllah's tortured body was strung from a traffic control light pole and guarded for all to see. Now, some 12 years later, Afghan President Hamat Karzai and his brother cling to power with the help of coalition forces, who have made clear through Obama that they are bugging out in 2014. Once again the Taliban are knocking on the door and once again it will be some component of the current coalition who will be tasked with handing over the bodies of it's erstwhile leadrers in the hopes of currying some type of favor. Today, on the anniversary of Najibullah's demise, Karzai pleads mournfully with the USSECDEF Leon Panetta for more support (who tells him to be more grateful for the sacrifice of 2000 allied soldiers as the coalition has expended that many men in mortal combat.
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Y'know, this thought came to me the other night, and it proves just how stupid and simple-minded the people of this beautiful country can be: The TEA Party consider themselves to be conservatives/Republicans, and their stance is that they've been "Taxed Enough Already." The majority of them appear to be middle-class Americans, and they're about as anti-Obama as you can get. Now, here's the part where I start scratching my head. They're anti-Obama because they don't like his tax policies (he wants to increase taxes on the upper class/richest 1%) and are going to vote for Mitt Romney, whom they identify with because he's filthy-f**king-rich. But Romney has admitted he doesn't intend on increasing taxes on the rich while also saying the American people need to pay more in taxes to recover from the deficit of '00 through '08. So, where's that money going to come from? The upper class's taxes are already reduced, and the poor can barely afford to pay the standard tax rate based on their income. Now, here's where I fail to find the logic in the TEA Party's argument (assuming there was ever logic to begin with): The obvious answer of who will be shouldering the brunt of the tax increases is the MIDDLE CLASS. How the TEA Party can't see this boggles my mind to near-migraine proportions. It's clear that we live in a country where the majority of the population chooses not to think for themselves, especially when we have a**holes like Bill O'Reilly and Glen Beck (among numerous others) who take it upon themselves to act as the mouthpieces of the extreme right.
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Is rooted in racism, among other roots in my opinion. The vast, vast proportion of the Tea Party are white and the type who lock their doors when driving through semi-marginal neighborhoods, thumbing the door locks. Many of them are "birthers" who hate all blacks and would never vote for a black under any circumstances. Next, they tend to be older and very conservative. Their rage (energy?) has to do mainly with the bail-outs and other spending Obama has done over his tenure, As usual, they conveniently forget Obama was facing a massive big-bank invented crisis which forced him to spend with little restraint with questionable legislation. They see this spending as irresponsible in the extreme and feel it will handicap the country as a whole and their kids and grand-kids in particular. Much of their ideology is written as talking points by conservative ideologues like the Koch brothers. Out of this (or starting from this) is a a guy called Grover Norquist who has had every possible politician sign a pledge saying they will never vote to raise taxes, whatever the circumstance. This is a thundering clash of opposing philosophies on the economy. The US Government's economy is not the same as your household economy and this is where they make their simplistic mistakes, You don't need to kill the social safety net -- you need to tax the highest 2% of the income tax bracket while shutting down corporate subsidies and loopholes (corporate welfare) and identify at least 5% of waste that every sane person knows is in the military budget. The Koch brothers and other super-rich Ayn Rand conservatives are foaming at the mouth to kill Medicare.Medicaid and Social Security. They need to be silenced to a reasonable proportion. One theory is slash all spending. Another is to spend money on physical infrastructure and other vital needs. No doubt the US will muddle through in a mixture of these two thanks to Norquist and the Tea Party, The Simpson/Bowles legislation does have some sound fiscal policy that would help address the debt and it's attendant interest. This would incorporate many of the Tea Party's legitimate concerns. The problem is to separate what is sound fiscal policy from the hysterical gibberish coming from the Koch Brothers and other super greed-head Ayn Rand coneheads. The Tea Party people are being used like tools. They need to see how they are being used in the class war.
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i wish those would come up for intelligent and educated discussions where i reside...............but i'm afraid that will happen at about the same time they run out of beer and brats in milwaukee. until then, it's best to do what any good and resourceful gardener would do. --- best of luck co, wa, or. !!!!!!! ---- (it's 2012, we shouldn't even so much as have to discuss this anymore, but it makes some politicians feel worthy of their useless jobs ( with their obscene perks) by creating ludicrous drug laws which target minorities and the poor......... who, in turn, feed the prison industry). "i like to think of laws not as rules to live by, but more as suggestions". :D....... a wise adage indeed! george carlin "they've outlawed the most popular vegetable in the world!" timothy leary
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Or does it still seem a little surreal to be seeing a couple of guys from the Grateful Dead singing the national anthem on national tv? Don't the the MLB, SF Giants, and Fox PTB know who these guys are? Happy Birthday, Bob!
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I hit the refresh button and got a duplicate post
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Bob and Phil must be buddies with the 3rd base coach, Tim Flannery. I was watching the Chargers kick ass over on ESPN.
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Comes as they are singing "land of the FREEEEEE." I loved Phil's raised-fist emphasis on "free."
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Screwing up on the first debate and then having to pray Joe Biden didn't muck-up scrambling up that apple tree in the 2nd debate. Truly, by the exit polls of those who are likely to vote, this race is a statistical dead heat. Could it really be that Obama doesn't want a second term? (And would anybody have blamed him?)
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It wasn't Justin Verlander's night as his slumbering Tigers ran into a deep swinging Pablo Sandoval. Barry Zito pitched well and contributed 2 hits too. We'll see what tomorrow brings.
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"I'm fixing a hole where the rain gets inAnd stops my mind from wandering Where it will go I'm filling the cracks that ran through the door And kept my mind from wandering Where it will go And it really doesn't matter if I'm wrong I'm right Where I belong I'm right Where I belong. See the people standing there who disagree and never win" Yeah well, at least it's a chance to get off the road and just squeeze the phone. Everybody stay safe on the East Coast!.
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I'm surprised I haven't read any accounts of baseball fans celebrating the sweep of the Tigers by the San Francisco Giants Sunday evening! Congratulations and hope the parade is fun, too.
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Cartels are fighting it out in jet-set destination Acapulco, Mexico while opium production is up 17.6% in the world-leading producer country Burma. Perhaps that is why Ang Sang Su Kyi gets her cosmetic freedom. Afghanistan is the #2 producer in the world, just waiting for the US exit in 2014 to retake the lead.
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Greetings Beings! Hope some East Coast Heads out there find this post. Would love to see you so we can dance and shake our bones one more time... Will be sipping some sweet tunes into the night and groovin' in this massive dance space just like old times... Here are some details... FALL FOR THE DEAD! ~ A Night of Dancin' to the Good 'ol Grateful Dead! Saturday, Nov 3, 2012 8:00p NEA - North East American School of Dance 25 Main Street, 4th Floor, Northampton, MA Join us as we clear out the cob webs, dust off those rusty strings one more time, and enter into the circle of community and connection as the kids they dance and shake their bones to the sounds of The Grateful Dead! This one night only barefoot boogie dance event will be a time for all of us who Love the sounds of Jerry and The Boys to come together in Love, Peace, and Celebration! This musical journey will be guided by DEAD DJ's Brothers Antonio Aversano & Bill Baue Sliding Scale: $5 - $10 https://www.facebook.com/events/239395542853679/ Peace, ~ Antonio ~
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The Northeastern portion of the US as well as the Appalachian Mountain chain, the Hatteras shoreline to the North Shore of Boston and 22 foot waves pounding onshore at Lake Michigan (Chicago) and Lake Eerie (Cleveland) provided the rough proportions of a massive collision of two storms with a very low barometric pressure center (a record in fact) of 940 millibars. Hundreds of homes burned to the ground and and about 500 died. The price tag for damage? The second highest in history. It is clear that this combined monster, along with the heat of the summer drought, signaled the full onslaught of global warming. Just as clear is that people and politicians (including the presidential candidates) are in full denial of the real damages yet to be felt. If you live in a home that has no propane or oil heat, it will be uninhabitable when the grid goes out (predicted by cyber attack or otherwise). Unimaginable food and energy prices increases signal just a few of the severest effects. I'm not trying to scare anybody, just saying that I'm making plans for this stark future that include a self-contained tiny house with generator. In the long run of a worst case scenario even this will not be enough.