Grateful Dead

Barlow is LDS. Not practicing, obviously, but comes from a long line of Mormons. In answer to the question, the Mormon Church and also (to my shame, because I'm Catholic like Barlow is Mormon...) the Catholic Church kicked in a lot of money. But it is also the case that the Bay Area is a relative island, even in California, and there is plenty of religious fundamentalism and just plain bigotry to go around throughout the state. And yeah, there was a lot of stirring up of hate among Latinos and among the black churches as well. Indeed, it was much speculated that the very people who turned out to elect Obama also turned out to pass Prop 8, at least where the black churches were concerned. So it's complicated. But it's also just plain wrong and I'm grateful to Judge Walker for his good sense. My own view is that the state should get out of the marriage business and only do civil unions, being that civil marriage is fundamentally about property and responsibility for children, and let religious, cultural, etc. bodies declare whoever they want in their communions married. And yeah, this includes the fundie Mormons if they stick to consenting adults.

I know this fight is not over. This will be appealed but its still a step in the right direction. Everyone should be free to love whomever they choose and have that acknowledged by society!

but the fact is that LDS was a major if not the major player behind Prop. 8. By the way I've met all sorts of Deadheads of various and no faiths but has anyone ever met an LDS head? If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake

is a bumpersticker seen on old, beat-up pick-up trucks around these parts. It seems that the rather sexually insecure have to make their intemtion in the sexual area perfectly clear because Vermont was first in the nation to allow civil unions and of the last couple of years gay marriage. It hasn't spoiled the place. How is it in the land of LA and SF that there is this conservative backlash? Is it hispanic machismo/Catholicism? It can't be the Oakies, there aren't enough pure bread of'em left. What gives Mary? Who is behind Prop 8 in Cali?

Judge Vaughn Walker, who I have always considered a sensible man and a credit to the bench, overturned California's Prop 8 with nasty words on the side: "Proposition 8 'fails to advance any rational basis in singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license. Indeed, the evidence shows Proposition 8 does nothing more than enshrine in the California Constitution the notion that opposite-sex couples are superior to same-sex couples. … Because Proposition 8 prevents California from fulfilling its constitutional obligation to provide marriages on an equal basis, the court concludes that Proposition 8 is unconstitutional.'" God bless Judge Walker and get him appointed to the Supremes.

Indeed!********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain

TL, many folks here did not believe the Bush lies, there were massive protests throughout the country. As well as the world. Please never forget the mass movement which many of us were involved in. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake

...There is an anti-war movement out there. I didn't mean to diminish the efforts of many, many patriotic Americans who do what they can to oppose this madness. And I am told that opposition to America's jihad is quite intense in parts of Europe. I was only trying to point out 2 things: There is a cost to war The face of protest is quite different these days I like what the leader of Wikki Leaks had to say (Simon, I think) "It's a damn war" Indeed a damn war. A low intensity conflict in which there are no major battles, simply groups of armed warriors sneaking up on one another. On the NATO side, if the conflict is extended at all, air power is called in that usually results in a lot of casualties with collateral damage. When we realize that this is not helping our cause among the natives, we strive (per McChrystal's suggestion), to change the rules of engagement so that we are able to make real progress, only to have push-back from our own forces, whom we come to find out don't give a damn about civilians or the Taliban, only wanting to leave the theater of operations in one piece. I don't fault them for that one bit, however it does point out big-time the slippery slope we are falling down. In the meantime, these mountains of desolate waste are host to wandering bands of reconnoitering commandos able to call down reaper and predator drone-fired missiles on whatever targets of opportunity they stumble upon. Americans need to see that we could have pursued this as a police action instead of a military conflict. We had the sympathy of the world and could have made these radical extremists the bad guys, even to their own people. Instead, a decision at the highest levels was made to pursue a war. This war is being fought because our "Way Of Life" is under attack. This is really the heart of the matter... In an increasingly globalized economy of post-peak oil the US cannot afford to allow the Muslim oil countries the natural economic advantage that would be theirs as oil becomes more scarce, thus entitling to ever-greater reserves of hard currency. Therefore we need to step in and try to divide the Muslims. In reality, this war is about economics and the ever-shrinking pie we all split. Other countries tend to resent it when you are 3% of the world's population and you are consuming 60% of the world's resources. I could march on with this rant but I'll stop here as I do believe what I've just stated is the heart of it. ~ I'm going off to war To fight on some foreign shore ~

True Americans did fall for the lie. When the towers hit the ground and everyone was freaking out it was really easy to believe the hype "terrorists have WOMD, they live in Iraq and they are coming to kill us", in the midst of the frenzy and fear we had to believe it. But it became clear rather quickly when the focus was on Hussein and not Bin Laden that our doofus president had a different agenda. "The dire wolf collects his due while the boys sing round the fire"

But Americans believed that lie for quite a while! Propaganda and hype were high. For example some collegues and I were aggressed on the streets of NYC for daring to speaking French (because Chirac said "hell no we won't go to Iraq" and anti-French sentiment was rampant). I seems that it took until folks started to die, for the brainwashing hype to lose effect. Sat over here and watched the War in Iraq unfold right there on CNN-like Wag the Dog, and yeah well had a rough time with my homeland back then! ********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain