Forums
"We left with our minds sufficiently blown and still peaking..."
We're headed back to that peak with the newly returned tapes from Broome County Veterans Memorial Arena, Binghamton, 11/6/77. The Grateful Dead's last touring show of 1977 finds them going for broke, taking chances on fan favorites like "Jack Straw," "Friend Of The Devil," and "The Music Never Stopped," carving out righteous grooves on a one-of-kind "Scarlet>Fire" and a tremendous "Truckin'." An ultra high energy show, with a first set that rivals the second? Not unheard of, but definitely rare. Hear for yourself...
DAVE'S PICKS VOLUME 25 features liner notes by Rob Bleetstein, photos by Bob Minkin, and original art by our 2018 Dave's Picks Artist-In-Residence Tim McDonagh. As always, it has been mastered to HDCD specs by Jeffrey Norman and it is limited to 18,000 individually numbered copies*.
*Limited to 2 per order. Very limited quantity available.
Get one before they are gone, gone, gone.
2/18/71 ESP Show
Any chance of 2/18/71 for an upcoming Dave's Pick?This has always been one of my favorites.
Re: 2/18/71 ESP Show
I love that show too Jason (was there ever a better first Wharf Rat, sandwiched between Dark Star and Dark Star, part II, which was so exquisite as to garner its own title, Beautiful Jam?) In my humble opinion, I don't believe it would be a Dave's Picks, but I do believe it will be released eventually. The reason I don't think it would be a Dave's Picks release is that it is 1) a multi-track recording and 2) part of a 6 show run (Feb 18, 19, 20, 21, 23, & 24). Typically, Dave's Picks have been compiled from the two-track recordings in the vault. I would think that they would consider this Port Chester run to be one of the top-shelf commodities in the Vault and release it as part of a box set, or as a wider release, like the follow-up night that was released as Three From The Vault. I do think it will see the light of day (it almost "has to" given the sales momentum that most of the Vault releases have today). If you want to help expedite its release, write to your Congressman: Dave Lemeieux / vault@dead.net
FWIW...
I dispute the posts stating flatly that the GD have "purchased" any tapes from anyone who ended up with the Betty Boards from her locker. I doubt anyone on this board has inside information on how that deal works. I don't believe the remaining band members have changed their stance: "we don't pay for tapes that [ultimately] belong to us."
But the liner notes on shows released from returned tapes all say: "Tapes provided through the assistance of ABCD Enterprises, LLC."
I believe, but cannot confirm, that that means the folks with the tapes provided them for the release and probably earn a modest percentage of the earnings off the release.
As for "paying for tapes" and then "blah blah profit" off them; the first is BS, the second is how the freakin' release program works. No profit, no release.
Further, I'd guess (only a guess) that there may have been some arrangement to get a fair number of returned tapes released relatively quickly, which has already happened with two boxes and multiple DaPs. That way, the folks holding the tapes received some recompense for their willingness to provide the tapes.
With the recent frequency of those returned tapes from Betty's locker, I'd suggest that Lemieux has options this year. He has not released a bunch of tapes from the Mtn Grrrl stash, which was received years ago. So while Dave has moved swiftly on some returned tapes, he has clearly withheld others.
Over and out.
great pick
I have to agree with you on this subject. The playing and sound is far superior to anything in the 80's and 90's.Like I said in an earlier post, 1974 is my favorite year and wish for a box set.
Sales Tell The Story
Dave Reading here, nice to meet you all. Long time Dead fan, long time forum reader, first time poster, long time physical record store / CD store owner. I like all eras, but I have to respectfully disagree with the idea that the 80s and 90s are as popular as the 60s and 70s. If they were, the sales would reflect it, but they don't. The 80s and 90s kept up at first, but lost pace ever since the market became saturated, which was roughly half-way through the Dick's Picks series. Until then, releases were infrequent, and the Deadheads came out every time something new came out, regardless of era. But once the release rate really picked up steam and consistency, all sales decreased, but more so the 80s (there weren't ever really too many '90s shows). I attribute this to the rationing of funds by consumers for the cream of of the crop, and the availability of more 80s product for lower prices online (which is not an opinion, it is a fact based on objective research I did, with no other motive than to identify which releases were most likely to help pay the mortgage). The sales figures tell the story. Just one example is the 30 Trips Around The Sun box set. I broke up 10 sets and sold them. It took 2 months to sell 1967 - 1978 and two years to sell 1979 - 1989. I still have a lot of '90s left. The 1966 release was in a slight class of its own, taking six months to sellout. What skews the tables even further is that I barely marked up the 80s and 90s, so not only did they take an immensely longer time to sell, but this occurred at a significantly lower price. It's no surprise to me whatsoever that Rhino appears to be pushing the 60s and 70s releases, because they're running a business and these are the money makers. I am sharing this to hopefully shed some light on the situation, and possibly help alleviate some of the typewriter churn that this topic has ushered in on the forum. Have a nice day and enjoy Dave's Picks 25!
ABCD Enterprises
Anyone got a Justia account so you can log in and see who the owner is?
https://trademarks.justia.com/860/76/betty-86076910.html
BETTY BOARDS
BETTY BOARDS
Digital music downloadable from the Internet; Downloadable MP3 files, MP3 recordings, on-line discussion board posts, webcasts…
Owned by: ABCD Enterprises, LLC
Serial Number: 86076910
https://www.trademarkia.com/betty-boards-86076910.html
30 Trips destruction
So dreading denied 10 people a 30Trips Box so he could break them up to make a buck?
That’s why there needs to be order limits.
There is also someone selling 10 GSTL Boxes on Amazon for $300 each.
ORDER LIMITS!!!!
30 Trips
Nobody was denied that box. It was available for quite some time.
The price was clearly too much for a lot of people, so breaking the box up at least allowed some to only purchase the shows they wanted. Not surprised at all by the outcome. But, I am looking forward to reading the responses by those intent on refuting reality.
Was a bit surprised by the post. Not sure I would have posted that on this site. Especially just to prove a point on demand for certain eras.
if Dave Reading is a long time forum reader....
....then he should know not to post the 10 Boxilla break ups story.
Data
It does provide a data point though.. I know Rhino and Lemieux have semi-reliable data on what sells, I imagine there is some geek with a spreadsheet in Burbank that helps put together short and long term projections. I see a lot of speculation here about what sells and what doesn't, mostly not very credible. I believe he was just adding some perspective and his experience on a topic that comes up here all the time. Besides.. if you owned a record/CD store, wouldn't you want some cool/rare GD sitting on some shelves somewhere? Having some decent GD might just draw people in that buy other stuff too. Just my opinion.
Not attacking dreading (or am I?)
The problem is the system that allowed him to purchase 10 copies of a limited release.Was it 7500 total copies? A lot less than the current 18,000 DaP subscriptions.
I don’t remember how long it was on sale but I do recall people in the past posting that they missed out.
It’s been commented on many times, but I’m for a sliding scale of something like limit 2 or 3 for the first week or so, then unlimited. Of course, the subscription was available for weeks, but some still missed out.
Re: 2/18/71 ESP Show
Thanks for the reply. I'll keep my fingers crossed for a Port Chester box set. That would be great!
Rolling Stones - Satisfaction In Concert
4 CDs of live recordings from 1964-66.Got it yesterday and am now listening to it. CD1 is from the U.S. and the girls screaming in the background is just like the Beatles recordings from that era.
CD2 just started, recordings from Paris and Hamburg, and girls are not screaming (so far). Way more listenable.
CD3 is from BBC and CD4 is live from Honolulu.
Edit:
I had to get out a magnifying glass to read the print, and it says ‘independent production’ from Czech Republic.
Some of our friends from that side of the pond have previously posted (when discussing the released GD ‘71 FM broadcasts) that this is allowed in Europe.
My error, probably could have found these recordings on the internets.
Well I for one am glad
...that some bought the 30 trips and broke them up to sell. I did not want any 80s or 90s, and bought just exactly the perfect 60s and 70s that I wanted, and early enough to get reasonable seeming prices on most of them.
Whether there should be a limit on purchases is something Rhino and company need to think carefully about and work out, but whatever their current rules are, the buyers are free to work within that.
The thing I won't do is pay over $100 on resale for any single show in a Dave's pick type release that I missed, no matter how much I want it. No way, no how. Will either wait for a re-release, or go without. Subscribing has solved that problem going forward.
Bring on Port Chester and the Ark boxes any time though...
30 Trips - 7,500
The amount didn't change, there would always be 7,500 numbered box sets. If I had a beef (and I don't), it's the price per set. Not the price of an 80 CD box set, the price per disc was reasonable, but the price tag is what kept people from pulling the trigger and probably caused a divorce or three. It was the price that scared people away.
I don't know how quickly this sold out, I forget.. But it as not immediate. I recall it taking quite a long time and it was well advertised beforehand. I also recall thinking.. man, this a car payment and a half.. it hurt.
A gentler offering would have been a couple smaller, lower priced box sets offered throughout the year. Anyway, bygones.. they did what they did and it was pretty cool. I bought one and did not tell my gf at the time (to which I feel a touch shitty about to this day, but she would have freaked out a bit)..
One thing is clear, seven years ago Rhino made a strategic commitment to get out of sitting on inventory game. They pretty much tell us what they are going to do, the dates are the same each year, and they do it knowing things will sell out quickly. It sure feels shitty to get shut out.. I can relate to that.. and wouldn't wish that anyone misses out on the music, but for the most part, people do not procrastinate - they either want it and can afford it or they don't/can't. Hopefully, there will be no more $800 box sets coming our way anytime soon, but at $25 per Dave's Picks with a two month window to pull the trigger.. I typically order the first day.
Geeks
"I imagine there is some geek with a spreadsheet in Burbank that helps put together short and long term projections."
Mr. JiminMD
A person's ability to do a little math does not make them less human than you. My response to people like you is so visceral that I struggle to put it into statements that do not begin and end with a specific four letter word, but obviously as a Geek I am not human enough to converse with such as you.
Sorry Neal
I have spent my entire career being the geek with the spreadsheet (and databases). It's all I do, day after day.. I, in no way, meant any offense.. If you knew me, this was a big compliment. The Geek with a Spreadsheet quote is something I stole from Warren Buffet during the 2009 crash, and I am quite fond of the quote.
My father was a statistician, with a cutting, dry, fantastic sense of humor. My brother spent his entire career working for NASA putting spacecraft into orbit. Geek with a spreadsheet was in no way meant as a slam.. the world needs geeks with spreadsheets and it's what I do for a living.
Again, apologies, did not mean to offend. Bad choice of words I guess, but I sincerely meant no offense.
Neal
Not sure what triggered your response, but you are way off base. If it was a joke, my apologies for missing it.
If not, and you have spent any time at all on these boards, then you would know that Jim is one of the most levelheaded, gracious posters we have here. There is a long list of folks who deserved to be admonished like that. Myself included.
Jim is not among them.
30 Ts cherry picker right here
At first i only bought a handful. Then every month i grabbed one or 2 a la cart sets off the sellers who were/still are parting the 30Trips box set out. Currently own 1966 to 85. Sticker shock kept me from pulling the trigger on the Box Set proper, but with 20/20 hindsight, i prolly shoulda just bought the tree.
Oh, well. Ya live, ya learn.
Then Again..
Perhaps cherry picking show by show saved you of an unexplainable credit card statement and perhaps an expensive divorce.. :D
Re: FWIW
Not sure why it offends your sensibilities that much to be loose with a description of how the tapes were attained. You admit a deal was struck and some form of monetary compensation for the return of the tapes, presumably through royalties or a straight percentage, either way, sounds like a quacking purchase to me. It may be whatever they needed to call it to avoid saying they bought the tapes, but a financial deal with ABCD seems to be in place and the source of our rich bounty of the last couple years. I call that a bargain, the best I ever had.
Binghamton's 2nd disc is approx 41 min long....
.... plenty of room for some Canadian philler. Go stealth mode Dave. Do it....and why is the entire online world so damn sensitive these days? A side effect, I guess, of being an anonymous bitcher. Technology is cool sometimes, but most of the time, it's frustrating. Go smoke a bowl. And if you don't want to converse with JiminMd, Mr. White, then why did you waste your precious time doing it? Go crunch some numbers.
Re: dreading's post
As a constant reader of these threads and someone who has previously expressed vehement opinions about both GDM product re-selling and Dave/GDM's 70s fixation, I want to chip in here. I rarely comment these days but "dreading"'s testimony and some responses to it got me wanting to speak.
I thank "dreading" for his post.
Testimony/data is always good when people are forming opinions. Too often small amounts of information feed people's emotions and their opinions form primarily from the emotions.
I have mixed feelings about reselling and I want to hear more from the resellers.
JimInMD summarized my feelings about the 30Trips release perfectly.
I opted out on buying 30T but 15 shows called my name day after day, night after night. I have bought 11 of them from resellers over the last several years. Most of them I bought from one Ebay-er after we discovered we lived only 7 blocks apart. Some of the shows I want are just too expensive at current secondary market prices for MY wallet (75, 79, 84, 85).
The removal of 10 boxes from the primary market does rub me the wrong way. Yet I personally experienced how that fed the single-show secondary market. More wrong or more right? Or just both? I just can't make that call.
His points about release choices being driven by past market behavior carries authority from his stated involvement in music retail. It would be nice to see more numerical data rather than generalized observations, but his statements are still useful. I do believe that 60s/70s has better sell-through than 80s/90s. As a proponent of releasing more 80s/90s, I hope to hear testimony refuting my belief and supporting my wishes, but I am glad to just get more reality/experience-based information. The ultimate information source on this issue is GDM. Anything you want to tell us GDM? Hello GDM?
Please don't go silent again "dreading". You may get some anger directed your way but we are all just typing here. Your information is much appreciated. We get very little information here while our feelings fester...
Oh, and 5/23/82 "hard to listen to"??? Really!!! It sounds bloody perfect and is a great show. The 5/21,22,23/82 box set is overdue!
Carry on people.
Math
I honestly rarely get political in here but i definitely think Math Clubs in schools should be more encouraged and properly funded than any sports program. people who can do math really well can actually solve world problems with it. can a professional athlete say the same? no probly not. and this is coming from someone who does not excel at math. you're in math club? what a loser! no that person isn't they are probly well on their way to get a great job cuz they are awesome at math while you will probly later in life struggle to make your dinner cuz you suck at math and beat rocks together like that caveman you are lmao. this isn't directed at anyone in here. just that math was brought up.
Amen
This is all gravy. Not every release is as good as we would want it to be, but some of them are just incredible. As someone who got started as a young teen collecting tapes in the early eighties before cds were even on the market, some of these releases take my breath away.
The Dead's music has provided me with so much happiness in my life and to be able experience so many other shows that we could not see live, is just amazing. I miss seeing the band, I miss Jerry, but these releases bring back so many good memories of this great experience, just enjoy them!
Holee Shite....
....this Truckin' is insane. Can I buy eight? No? :(
re: Math...18K is a huge run for any archival release
For 25 i read the venue only held roughly 7K, so yeah do the Math. You are either inside the gate or outside the gate. The venue can only hold so many. If the show sells out and you missed out, you snoozed. That's life. That's reality.
Dave's Picks is obviously very successful. Here's to a successful business model that funds many good paying jobs and funds many more high quality GoGD archival releases!
old eyes
"I honestly rarely get political in here but i definitely think Math Clubs in schools should be more encouraged and properly funded than any sports program."
Honestly I first read this as Meth Clubs. Come to think of it that would explain some people's posting behaviors on message boards. Now where's the damn Anthem 50th?
NO! no meth clubs! they'd
NO! no meth clubs! they'd just smell like cat pee (ammonia)
3/23/91 The Knick
3 Dylan covers in one show. the most I seen in one show. and I'm not counting the Dylan & The Dead tour.
3/23/91 The Knick
3 Dylan covers in one show. the most I seen in one show. and I'm not counting the Dylan & The Dead tour.
3/23/91 The Knick
3 Dylan covers in one show. the most I seen in one show. and I'm not counting the Dylan & The Dead tour.
On Mayer's Instagram today....
https://www.instagram.com/p/BeEsWIbHpb0/....when Bertha pops up, it can only mean tour announcement!!
30 Trips
Even at $750 bucks a pop, it still sold out in a matter of weeks.
What kind of a person would throw down $7,500 bucks for ten of them and destroy each set by breaking them up. Craziness.
After six years, this was the first time that the subscription almost sold out. That's great news and reassuring that the rate of releases won't be slowing down anytime soon. part of that may be because of the 50th 3 years back (the year the awesome Boxilla came out-mine's staying intact thank you), and part may be because of Dead and Company helping to bring in new fans.
....speaking of which, if "TouchHeads" are a lower class of Deadhead, the original "Deader than thou" label, what does that say to new fans who have come onboard over the last 23 years since the Dead stopped touring?
I wonder how many 15,000 units of July 1978 box sets are left? That one is from the seventies, came from returned Betty boards and has been available for close to a couple of years now. The RFK box sold the first 10,000 some-odd units within a matter of weeks, and seemd to have level off. Does that mean the band was "superior" in one year or the other, because they're both still available?
Deadheads are a peculiar bunch when it comes to era envy. Myself, I'd like to see the love spread out a little more, but it's all good. Brent was great, keith was great. Why is that even an issue?
think it’s when fans were mostly there but agree Jerry 77/89-90
No doubt all shows are amazing brut 77 87-90 but 89/9 for my money sees Jerry the most elevated in wisdom of his playing .. that’s just when he was still mostly clean but post Brent moments were rarer n 91-94 shows -eg. in Orlando 91 - seeeung boys was hard for me - as I begged fior some divinty - Morning Dew hit me hard at end but often bands energy sagged after we lost Brent .. alas diff folks diff strokes but new fan -old fan —-all—Dead Heads- fanily —to me—
—— so long as you get IT- as in baptized by the X factor or whatever it is that raised my kundalini at Radio Ciry or your crown chakras on this DvP25 on Miss half step - it’s you it’s the band it’s a stew baby! So that cookings going on in the pot in —every show- even now 50 years later Dead & C cooking some fine gumbo baby -which Mayer- has brought in some needed alchemy of his own to add to Bobs usual brew tho less shaman yells lately still got magic coarsuhg thru his veins —and the rhythm devils are crazy voodoo masters! lol can’t see my iphone glaucoma need someone to send good weed! lol ❤️—( my soap box? imho too many technophiles not enough musicians are dead heads in I am no Jerry Garcia’s- obviously.. he’s a once. no a millenium guy!in my humble opinion- . but i can stew up some sounds on my horn & sometimes I think the folks who only listen and never play get too caught up in the pure nerdiness of what year is best like drunks st. bar but it’s all in fun til it’s a brawl lol We are all in the band too so it’s subjectively objective
when?
When will this monster start to hit mailboxes? I'm looking forward to this show like all y'all. Of course, I had the tapes and I have a digital version now, but this will be a fantastic sound upgrade. Reminds me more of '78 Dead than '77, but that's not always a bad thing in my book.
Re: 11/2 filler, if they did squeeze it on there wouldn't there be 3 song repeats? I suppose that'd be fine...
Touch heads and geeks with spreadsheets
I’m a Touch head and don’t take offense to the term.I listen to 1965-95 and am happy for all the great releases we are getting.
My point about releases is that some of the older folks prefer the earlier years and are only going to buy those releases, so it’s best to sell to them now while they are still around. Us Touch heads will still be around (hopefully) down the road and will continue to buy releases which will be weighted towards the 80/90’s.
I also qualify as a geek because I work in the sciences, although I suck at math.
Kyle is right, schools need to focus more on math and science, and music and art, and less on sports.
So what does one do with an empty 30 Trips Box and book after selling off the individual shows? Probably sell them to someone who is trying to piece together a 30 Trips Box......
Didn’t keithfan or someone a few months ago buy an empty steamer box?
80's, dreading
I can't resist taking the era bait.... 80's fan - you wrote: "I can't understand the folks who completely rule out any era. Lots of good stuff over 30 years...expand your horizons!" OK.... who "completely ruled out any era"? Assuming that people here 1) don't like the 80's at all, or 2) haven't even tried the 80's is just kinda funny - and smacks of "deader-than-thou". I hope for mostly-70's releases, but that didn't keep me from heavily digging an Alpine Valley '89 show earlier this week, or recently acquiring some '82-'83 shows. I agree with fellow-80's-advocate Spacebro that the vast majority generally "love it all" - it's just that some eras are MUCH more loved than others, as dreading's post re: 30 Trips sell-thru clarifies.
Re: Dreading: I agree that mass-reselling releases seems ticket-scalper-unsavory and that a 5~ unit limit should be set, HOWEVER the underlying business model (limited run, ship all-at-once, no capital tied up in shelves full of inventory - eezy peezy) works well, as the success of this series proves. But this model REQUIRES a secondary market for those who missed the window = eBay. Thousands wanted to buy the individual 30-trips shows, and Dreading and others fulfilled that demand. No one's purchase was blocked and no puppies were harmed by his buying multiple units (was available for weeks), and he provided a distribution service to hundreds of people looking for individual shows. When you build a business that relies eBay, that type of behavior is par for the course. BUT I agree a 5-unit limit would help to keep a healthier relationship between sales and actual end-demand. (And how do we know you're one of us, Mr Reading, and not just doing market research for your CD-scalping... er "reselling" business? Your post was all business with no indication of any GD knowledge or passion.... sorry, wouldn't be a GD scene without a little paranoia... ;)
thin
Thanks Thin. My comment was directed at the folks who won't give the time of day to shows from the 80s and 90s which in my opinion is more prevalent on this board than among old heads.
I know a lot of heads too and so I think it might be an age/generation thing - the people I know listen to it all because the band was still around and evolving in real-time as they were seeing shows. Those shows and that era are tied to real life memory and experiences.
Newcomers have the luxury(?) of having the entire history of the band at their fingertips and seem more likely to just listen to what they feel is best era.
product sku
081227931742