Grateful Dead

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Once we had Boxilla some people who would generally avoid the 80/90’s commented how surprised they were at how good the 90’s shows were. And the 89 show too, which is one I had previously on cassette and was waiting for in Full Norman glory.

A lot of interesting stuff percolating here. I am pleased that for the most part, All Things remain civil and it seems that respect is being handed around fairly. The Sandbox can accommodate! The 30 Trips situation being discussed is clearly a hot topic. I can see it both ways, man. Part of me hurts to see/hear these treasure chests broken up; on the flip side as other have noted - it was a lot of coin on the spot so I can also see the inherent, but perhaps obscured altruism in there which allows others who may not have had the means to still be able to participate in the history of acquisition, one by one. Jimbo is ALWAYS on "the good guys side", whomever that may entail. Not a bad or mean bone in his geeky plasma sack of a body. And i completely concur with the appreciative labeling of geeks with spreadsheets. As Kyle smartly declared, we definitely need to put more emphasis on mathematics, because....engineering! Smart stuff! Problem solving! all of this is spot on. And also coming from a self-declared math-struggler...during AP calculus I was so slow that my teacher used to let me come in after school to finish my quizzes and exams. She also tutored me for the AP exam - which I thankfully scraped by with a barely passing grade of '3' - which, incidentally, made it so I NEVER HAD TO TAKE MATH AGAIN, even while at UVM and getting a Biology degree...so yeah, math = important! But, so is listening to your favorite band and gaining an entirely new perspective on life, the cosmos, love, sharing, and how to groove. Sixtus

... just because it's one of my fav's, too. I don't have time to do proper research on this right now, but a few observations: Regarding @hseamons's point about the Woodstock video (which I haven't seen in ages): My memory is that when Garcia (or whoever) uses the term "jackstraws", he's talking not about the people there, but about the cars scattered on and alongside the roads leading to the site. "Jackstraws" is another name for Pick Up Stix, so he's looking at the traffic / parking disaster from a helicopter flying over, and seeing that random arrangement of "parked" vehicles, crowds, and detritus reminds him of the mayhem of the dropped sticks at the start of the game. But it's interesting that he'd use the term "jackstraws" for the game--it was always "PickUpStix" to me (and my older family members) on the East Coast growing up, but maybe different for Garcia's (and Hunter's) generation out west(?). Anyway, my earlier guess about Robert Hunter having a pint in Jack Straw's Castle during his 1970 trip to London is just my speculation, although I think not entirely impossible. We'd have to check with him to find out (if he remembers). Dodd of course has lots of info in the Annotated Lyrics book, and also a blog entry right here: http://www.dead.net/features/greatest-stories-ever-told/greatest-storie… . The Steinbeck suggestion he makes seems a false lead to me, in terms of the composition (if not the performances) of the song. I've never seen the movie of Of Mice and Men, but I've read the book, and the pair of men in the book are hardly the ne'er do wells of the song. So the Steinbeck thing seems Depression-era context for Weir, provided after he was making the song his own in performance, but not something that would've shaped Hunter's creation of the song's characters. Dodd's book does something really useful in pointing to a folk ballad (the Child ballad "Edward") for a lyrical source. That ballad doesn't mention Jack Straw at all, but with a very little bit of digging I learned there were some old ballads that refer to the historical Jack Straw who rebelled with Wat Tyler and others against Richard II in the late 1300s. At least one of these old ballads seems to have been preserved, in the "Garland of Delights." That is a collection of ballads attributed to the 16th-century balladeer Thomas Delone (or Deloney). The earliest print copy I see listed anywhere is a duodecimo from 1681, allegedly the 30th edition, that is part of the Pepys library at Cambridge University. To me, this is really interesting, because I think it would make the folk heritage of "Jack Straw" possibly more ancient even than those of "Terrapin Station," "Cold Rain and Snow," "Peggy-O," and "Jack-a-Roe." Anyway, our old friend the Internet Archive has a copy of Deloney's collected works. You can see the ballad in question starting on page 413, here: https://archive.org/stream/worksofthomasdel04delouoft#page/412/mode/2up . Too much, man, too much.

hendrixfreak - I loved your comment: "there may have been some arrangement to get returned tapes released relatively quickly... That way, the folks holding the tapes received some recompense for their willingness to provide the tapes". GREAT POINT... never thought of that! Why would any knucklehead relinquish possession and control of the tapes (in return for what is likely a "time of sale" recompense) unless the time of sale is near-term? The Dead could just throw them in the back of the Vault and say "Thanks!!! Maybe we'll release it someday!"... Suddenly you realize you have relinquished possession and control of the reels and will be reduced to logging in here every day to see if it'll ever get out - sucker! Requiring a near-term release is smart - I'd be paranoid that Dave/Rhino might tilt toward non-royalty releases (based on profit, or simply principle!), and/or the show would instead be somehow leaked through the trading community just to spite those who have "spent years trying to hold the Dead hostage for THEIR OWN music, man!"...

None of you are real fans unless you've seen Pigpen in concertAccept that and just start following Umphrey's Mcgee and the world will be a better place.

I always understood the term of derision to be directed toward those that latched on to the scene when the band’s popularity exploded, came for the party and only the party, drunkenly stumbled around, and shouted for Touch of Grey at the top of their lungs, only to be disappointed when it wasn’t played. I don’t think it’s directed at those who were introduced to the Dead because of their top 10 hit and who came to love the band and it’s music. These fans generally integrated themselves well, and added to the subculture. Regarding the break up of the box; I’m ambivalent. As a collector and Deadhead, it causes me physical pain to imagine the beautiful set being ripped apart. On the other hand, this is America, and you’re entitled to do what you want to with your purchase; even light it on fire. Just don’t expect people around here to sympathize with you.

Thanks for your comment - I enjoy a respectful debate. But I think your response makes my point (translate as "Jane you ignorant slut..." ;) Please take the below in the spirit intended. You say your comment was more directed at newer heads, since the older heads were there. "Those [80's] shows and that era are tied to real life memory and experiences". I get it and I agree - my first show was '83 and I get nostalgic listening to that era. But your comment implies that rabid 80's proponents are fans BECAUSE of the nostalgia, not because the relative quality of that era compared to others. But I agree that nostalgia contributes to 80's demand. You also say "Newcomers have the luxury of having the entire history of the band at their fingertips and seem more likely to just listen to what they feel is best era." Agreed - but that statement undermines a pro-80's argument, no? If people can look at the full spectrum of their career objectively and are more drawn to the 70's... seems like a perfect, objective test... Like the old Alpo commercial where they put 2 bowls side-by-side and the dog goes for Alpo. BOTH dog foods taste great!!! But they seem to go for Alpo.... Finally, I know of no new OR old heads who ONLY listen to the 70's while completely ignoring/dissing the 80's, but perhaps you do. My take: Just because people have a fav era doesn't mean it's ALL they listen to. Your handle is "80's fan", but that doesn't mean you hate/ignore the 70's (does it? ;). I lean 70's, but LOVE a lot of 80's/90's. It's not binary - you're allowed to like more than one era. Not trying to be a jerk, or overbearing. I love all the eras. But the "era argument" has a lot of passion in it, and often when people defend their fav era, nostalgia, indignity, and exaggeration dilute their point. In my opinion, a simple "I prefer the 80's" is the most powerful argument, since it doesn't overreach and no one can deny it. 80's Dead rocks.

Yes icecreamconekid, I acquired a steamer trunk for the E72 set I pieced together, one show at a time (at first). I was into the Dead when E72 came out, but I wasn't the rabid fiend I am now, and I didn't buy it. After the bug hit me, I ordered them one at a time off of dead.net (before they were all sold out) for about two weeks, and then 2-3 at a time. Once I had all of the shows, I tried to make my own "steamer trunk" by purchasing one of those CD holder brief case thingies, and affixing Dead stickers all over it. That almost worked. The stickers kept peeling off, so I bought fabric glue to prevent that from happening; but the deal breaker was that those CD brief cases still scratch the CDs when you remove / replace them a lot. Plus, I NEEDED the steamer trunk and books. I have it all now, except for the sticker - wasn't there a rainbow foot sticker that came with it? I have to say - as exciting as it must have been to unpack that entire steamer truck, I had a great time ordering them piecemeal and checking the mailbox once a week for a new Grateful Dead Europe '72 CD shipment (especially if it was "Dark Star" week). But I don't keep the actual CDs in the trunk, only the CD cases. Because we all know the cases scratch the CDs, and even if they didn't, they get worn out and ripped if you take the CDs out frequently. So I also bought a bunch of 30 Trips crates to use as CD holders (probably off of the record store guy who posted). I put all of my individual Dead CDs in those white paper CD sleeves, and store those in the 30 Trips crates. I store each crate on it's own shelf in the entertainment center, which conveniently has these cubby-like shelves that are just big enough to put a 30 Trips crate, either length-wise or width-wise. This allows me to arrange them so that I can see all 4 pictures and all band member names. And I have a big dog to protect them, a home alarm system, and some guns;-)

Peachy still gets my vote for the most intriguing and engaging posts thus far. While everyone else is tirelessly treading the same old tired ground of 70s vs 80s vs Blah-Blah vs Wah-Wah, the Peach is busy hammering out steady-flow prose that would make Willam S. Burroughs one proud papa.

thanks so much for adding.. makes me want to go grab a pint at Jack Straws castle. Interesting stuff.

I couldn't make head or tails of that Peachy post. What was he saying?

So I thought I'd look once more at recent releases and see if they fit a pattern, re: the ABCD Enterprises angle. 2016's '78 box's liner notes bears the note, "Tapes provided through the assistance of ABCD Enterprises, LLC," as well as "Tapes recovered and restored by Rob Eaton." 2017's '77 box references ABCD Enterprises and the Special Thanks includes Eaton's name. Jibes with what we've heard. Eaton tracked down the couple who bought part of Betty's locker and tape stash, cleaned up the tapes and helped get the couple in touch with the GD org. DaP 20/2016/Boulder '81 lacks any reference to ABCD. DaP 21/2017/Boston '73 (a fave) references ABCD, thanks Eaton. DaP 22/2017/NYC '71 (fave) references ABCD, thanks Eaton. DaP 23/2017/Eugene '78 references ABCD, thanks Eaton. DaP 24/2017/Berkeley '72 (a fave) references ABCD, thanks Eaton. There's a dozen shows, released 2016-2017, from the ABCD returned tapes stash, with Boulder the lone non-ABCD release; it might even have been a fall-back project while they worked over the returned tapes. We know Dave has stated his predilection for releasing returned tapes promptly (see the "houseboat tapes"), which injects some excitement/drama into the vault release program. That approach happens to dovetail with the theory that the band didn't buy back tapes but agreed to allow ABCD a share of the profits and possibly agreed to a rapid, successive release of returned tapes, which has indeed transpired. The dozen shows referenced above range from 1971 to 1978, so that's quite a range of years, and bodes well for the future. Plus, somehow I get/got the sense that the ABCD tape stash includes several dozen reels/shows -- in other words, so many that Dave can and will take a break at some point and maintain part of his own DaP plans in place before the ABCD tape trove was available. I'd guess that the vault has an ample inventory of '77 and '78 tapes, thus the releases (primarily the boxes) have favored those years. Again, a nice dovetail: a trove of returned tapes for years well represented in the vault allows Dave to put out two boxes and not really dent his 77-78 stash. I'd even guess that DaP 25 and 26 will be based, at least in part, on returned tapes from ABCD. Dave may already have said as much. I don't think this year's box can draw on '77 or '78 in deference to variety, but with the ABCD stash ranging from '71 to '78 (that we know of), the ABCD returned tapes might still contribute to a box from '73 or '74 -- my current guesses of the 2018 box focus. Obviously had some time on my hands today... but the upshot is positive for anyone who likes the '70s shows. One last thought: I'd guess that with the Anthem re-release providing an opportunity to put out a '68 show, that for 'balance' DaP 27 and 28 will include a '69 show and an early '80s show. Well, enough of my thoughts.

Haven't a clue, Minas. Clearly (or not so clearly) it's open to interpretation. But whatever he's saying, I'm digging his posts so far. Refreshing change from the usual kvetching, grousing, and one-upping that seems to permeate these forums. Though he does appear to be in need of weed. For his ailing eyesight, I believe...

Over 100 billion people have set foot on this planet during its history, most of whom never experienced the joy of hearing a single note of music performed by the Grateful Dead. I feel blessed to be among those relative few who continue to reap the benefits of the Dead's collective musical genius. It borders on the miraculous that, for 3 decades, folks had the foresight to record most of their concerts so that we Deadheads may now enjoy this blissful music in all its fully-Normanized, HDCD splendor. In the grand scheme of things, I'm of the opinion that any GD era is a wonderful era, and any GD show is a wonderful show. Except Boreal, but mostly because of the traffic, heat and dust. And the "Day Tripper" encore.

Hear! Hear, Bolo! I couldn't agree more. Whatever era tickles your ear-sockets, plug it in and hang on for the ride, I say. Personal preference is always between you and you.

Era schmeara......btw that 4-6-82 Truckin is sans the doo dah man. Bobby was distracted by a veritable hen house of hot mainline girls!

....looks like LA. Here I come.

... 1-18-78~ Stockton with bonus disc of 1-17-78 Sacramento!If there has to be any more 78s.

Great find, Stoltzfus! Now whenever I read a Peachy post, I'll have a visual and a voice to accompany his meandering musings.

I wasn’t there - nobody had yet told me that I needed to go down to the bus stop. Boreal 86 - canceled, but I have a copy of one of the show posters. Boreal now - no way would I ski there. But behind Boreal is a nice resort called Sugarbowl. Keithfan, nice attempt on making a steamer trunk. Why not burn CD-R copies of your CD’s so that they can rest in an undamaged state? My steamer trunk is a cardboard box with a sticker that says ‘Europe 72 - The Complete Recordings’ because I hesitated on the steamer trunk and missed out, then paid the same price for the AME. Learned a lesson there.....don’t hesitate.

I find this very inspiring, KF. And the offering of 'one piece at a time' is an excellent touch, wadeocu. I call this "MacGyver'ing", cause, well we all know why: Use what you can find to make what you need. Sixtus

Just hoping for a Dark Star or Morning Dew to be included in the coming Dap 27, 28. I think DaP 13 is still my favorite. Not a dull moment.

Please remember, when a release is also available as a digital download, the physical cds take longer to sell out. You really cannot measure their sales accurately against a cd only release. Rock on

Hendrixfreak, my post that you so took issue with by saying purchased the Bettys mentioned all the ABCD shows that have been put out. Pretty clear that whatever you want to call it, a price was paid for those wonderful tapes, and we're all the better for it! Thin made excellent points about the "love it alls" and the "lean toward 70s". I think the numbers of 80s and 90s haters is overblown, the era wars don't have huge numbers of soldiers fighting it out. Kinda like the War on Christmas, it's just a bunch of noise to distract us. Instead of an argument over another 1977 release, remember that it's a show that would have been released as a Dick's Pick if it had been in the Vault according to Dave. We should be thankful for what is put out. Until 25 arrives without filler, and I'll complain about that, but that's more of a greed-driven complaint than anything.

i still believe there is more profit to be had in a digital only release. as it was proven for current video game releases. currently all of the E72 tour is on nugs.net and not just mp3 Lossless. I say some past Dave's Picks should be put up at some point. I'm sure some would be happy and glad to even have just the Digital copy. and not just for the current people, us, here, now but for future fans as well. they are plenty of people who are going to be future fans and interested in getting their hands on 11/6/77 hell, even 12/9/81.

CDs are fine but I'm at a point in my life where less is more. I've ripped my Dead collection to a hard drive and the cds are in storage. Seeing as Dave's Picks sell out in the wink of an eye perhaps they could offer digital downloads once they're sold out. I'm not a business type so I don't know what it would do to sales. Agree with the all eras iz good music. The older I get (and I'm getting old) the more I like mid 80s shows. These days I need a nap after hearing a 68 show. It just bakes all of the serotonin out of my coconut.

that's my theory for now. (avoiding work...)

Funny.... The great thing about having 30 years to choose from is that you can usually find an era that fits your mental state at that moment. As for digital downloads, they already tried that. As for future generations, they won’t miss out. They will get their digital downloads (which will take about 5 seconds for a whole show) and it will probably be remastered in Ultra-Norman.

I heard from a reliable source he is either Christopher Lloyd, Christopher Steele or Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Honorable mention to John Brennan.

aaand, I agree with the "there's a Grateful Dead year for that".

it promotes and validates the ticketless hordes and tourhounds. "You need a miracle? I BOUGHT my ticket, you Touchhead! Now get off my melting lawn!!"

the circus shut down on 8/9/95.

Credit MadDoc for that one

The world's foremost authority asked to explain Peachy post https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHlLmYVCzKY&ab_channel=Donaldplesance

Or does Bolo = Betty? I’m thinking Bolo = Bill Walton

for being our board's Michael Hurley.

BU Class of 99. Checking in. This is going to be fuggin fantastic. Dave and Crew making hay while the sun shines. All your tapes are belong to us.

Could this be him? I think he just needs some weed and it will all sound perfectly coherent. Yes.. points for most creative post of the thread. Love it.

Funny, but I'll tell you what reading that post stream-of-consciousness it makes perfect sense. Awesome summer tour announcement. Looking forward to both Boulder shows (again and again and...) Can't say I've ever seen the last date of a Dead tour. No opening band to pelt them with eggs and flour, guess they'll just have to yuk it up themselves. Man I am totally in defense of record store guy and his post on every level... people have to eat, this guy is selling records not bombs. It seems more honorable to me to support the little brick and mortar store than buy everything off amazon, itunes, and this place. And seventies Dead rules. \m/

Sigh. The melting lawn. Those were the days...

OK, so a few more thoughts occur to me re: "returned tapes needing to be released soon, otherwise they may not be returned". Dave likely has to strike a balance between what year/shows he WANTS to release, and the incoming tapes and the resulting release obligations - the tail wags the dog to some degree. This dynamic suddenly seems to explain a few things we've discussed: 1) It likely explains why DaP26 makes two 1971 releases (four complete shows!) in just a twelve month period (unless Doc is moonlighting as Dave's assistant?). 2) It may also explain why DaP26 will be a pair of unrelated 1971 shows (12/14 and 11/17) with near-identical setlists (incl. The Other One centerpiece), instead of a more organic mini-box like 12/14-15/71: Other One 1st night, Dark Star 2nd night - that old chestnut. 3) It may explain why last year's annual bonus disc felt more like set 1 "filler" (sorry) than a "desert-island dream disc" like the DaP2 1974 bonus disc. (Note that Dave could certainly use the bonus disc on DaP26 for a set 2 instead of set 1 this time, since Disc 2 will ALREADY have a sequence of The Other One> Wharf Rat> NFA> GDTRFB> NFA on it! But whatevs - either way it's 2 full shows.) 4) Finally, it may explain why (by the time DaP26 is released) we will have gotten five MONSTER versions of "The Other One" in the past 5 DaP's (7 total shows). By contrast, only one "Dark Star" (Dap19 Hawaii) out of the last 13 DaP shows, and that's actually the ONLY Dark Star in the last 24 total shows released over the last 2 1/2 years, counting the Red Rocks, GSTL and RFK boxes! 80's fan - full disclosure: A good soul who we all know and love here kindly PM'd me (instead of contradicting me publicly! ;) saying they don't listen to ANYTHING beyond 5/26/72! LOL! So you're right, some folks do stay exclusively in certain eras, but I still (stubbornly) think its a very small minority. I know a lot of heads, and they all listen to everything. I mean, who the heck doesn't want to hear '73? Eyes of the World? HC Sunshine?! I could go year-by-year with stuff they are unimaginably missing out on.... The good news is if they ever get board of '65-'72, they have a lot left to still explore! (Some of you can probably guess who it is.)

Buying from this site is not honorable?You don’t buy from Amazon, iTunes, Dead-net? The person in question bought the product in question from this site and then resold it for more money. That’s exactly what resellers on eBay do, but you think that it is more honorable because it was done from a record store and not on the internet? Amazon has many small retailers selling stuff on its site. In fact there is one right now called CD Rareities selling GSTL Boxes for $300 each, only 8 left. A few days ago there were 10 left, can’t believe they sold 2 that fast at that price. I have an extra GSTL Box that I want to sell, not because I’m a reseller but because I got 2 during the ordering snafu (as I posted before). I’m trying to sell it at cost just so I can break even. Maybe I should do the honorable thing and price it at $300. As for the old argument about having to pay a mortgage or support a family, people who buy stuff also have those expenses and it makes sense to buy stuff at the lowest price possible.

I just clicked on your link I'm in the car on the way to work, pulling up to the toll booth. The video started right as I rolled my window down and I just lost it laughing. My grandfather listened to a lot of Johnny Cash LPs in the house growing up. Thanks for that. Grateful day everyone. Dave's Picks 24 now has me listening to all of this summer and fall shows that came out. Garcia has a smoking solo on Cumberland Blues on 30 Trips 1972 from Waterbury. Edit - icrmcnekd, I just saw your question about burning the originals to backup CDs. I do that too (and to redundant hard drives in WAV and 320Kbps mp3). I use the backups occasionally. I don't know, it's a mental thing. I guess I like looking at them and reviewing the track list before I play them. Plus the occasional time I drop one amuses everyone in the house, as I contort my body every which way trying to catch it before it hits a hard surface.

I'd love to meet your friend, Thin, as I couldn't even imagine listening to that classic final show of the Europe '72 Tour at the Lyceum Theatre on 5/26/72 and thinking, "well, that's that." Just the thought of 7/18/72 at Roosevelt Stadium-Jersey City, 7/26 at the Paramount in Portland, OR, the absolute insanity of 8/12 in Sacramento (one of my dream shows for an official release), the four gigs at Berkeley Community Theatre between 8/21-8/25, of course Veneta, OR on 8/27, the WHOLE freaking month of September '72 and the scattering of jaw dropping brilliance throughout the rest of the year leading to what would be THE greatest New Year's Eve gig ever performed by ANY band (if 12/31/78 did not exist). My God, to stop at the end of Europe '72???? WHY?????????? I can understand (to an extent) those who just can't get into the post-'74 "break-up" Dead as there IS a distinctly different tone (with the re-addition of Mickey Hart, the more luded out, smackified re-tooling of some older numbers, etc., though just the idea of NOT listening to ANY single show from the Dead circa the 1970's makes me sweat). But to take a year as front to back solid as '72 and just stop at the end of the Europe Tour befuddles me...unless the absence of Pigpen is completely untenable, and I WILL admit, I'd give my right nut for another 25 versions of "The Stranger (Two Souls In Communion)" alone. But man, even the tragic loss of Ron McKernan did nothing to extinguish the audacious confidence of the band throughout the WHOLE year of 1972....and on.

Evil Yn, Your testimony reminds me of the moment in the GD movie when the cameraman caught some regular Deadheads in the lobby and one really spelled out his love for the band and its courageous adventures in jam-land. The vitality of your testimony leaps off the 'page' here. Grate way to start the weekend. Deinitely going to spin an under-appreciated show tonight, one loaded with ole' Ron's righteous bellowing. Bacon GREASE, folks. P.S. Yes, JimInMD -- I AM Pavlov's dog -- one whistle that sounds like M-c-K-e-r-n-a-n and I begin to salivate, then ... unlurk.

"Evilyn" has a right nut??? OK... So this is THAT kind of board! First I'm talking to a Deadhead who doesn't listen to '73-'95 AT ALL, then its Evilyn with a right nut... it's the island of misfit deadheads! I love the passion - Peachy-esque. Yah, after 5/26/72 he probably thought "it ain't gonna get better than THAT!" I'd introduce you, but honestly many of the people he meets can't say a single nice thing about him....

KeithFan, this comment you made had me chuckling out loud: "Plus the occasional time I drop one amuses everyone in the house, as I contort my body every which way trying to catch it before it hits a hard surface." Then immediately I made a mental link to Rick and Morty. Is this you? https://78.media.tumblr.com/d948046f55ec58d262b9dd301c843798/tumblr_my8… Sixtus

And everyone watch out for Keithfan on the turnpike. Not only does he text while driving, he watches YouTube too.