Grateful Dead

Can someone explain the logic of this to me? If you are reordering the sequence of songs so the cover songs are on the main 3 disc package, royalty costs are actually higher in net because they sell a few thousand additional copies of the set without the bonus disc. I guess it would make sense when the bonus disc is a completely different show than the main 3 disc set.

4/16/72 Aarhus was the final E'72 recording I picked up and I'm so glad I did before it sold out. In particular the TOO jam out of Truckin'-- such blistering grace and spacey nuance. One of those E'72 sequences I can listen to over and over (and just happens I'm also a fan of '76). Anyway, after starting my computer this morning and before heading over here, I came across the following from Wallace Stevens' poem, 'Certain Phenomena of Sound': Someone has left for a ride in a balloon Or in a bubble examines the bubble of air. The room is emptier than nothingness yet a spider spins in the left shoe under the bed- And old John Rocket dozes on his pillow. It is safe to sleep to a sound that time brings back.

I would not go that far...to say that See Emily Play is better than anything they released im the 1970s I mean come on, really?...thats some downright subjective hyperbole. Atom Heart Mother, Meddle, Dark side, Wish you were Here, animals, the wall all relased in the 70s. Thats A LOT of truly phenomenal music all of which follows a very nice progression in themes and motifs that are directly descended from what they did in the 60s. See Emily Play is a great but its one song... The Who is better than the Doors, but Ive always been skeptical of inflated egos and cult of personalities, and Jim Morrisson was just that. Thats why the 80s cult of Jerry/Dead is such a turn off for me. Great music but the way it gets talked about with such blind hyperbolic reverance is the time I start replaying older shows in my brain and hit the mental mute during most conversations. I never go out of my way to listen to either The Who or The Doors if I can make a choice from the Universe of music. Too much other stuff out there...

Then its better, but we all have different tastes. To truly and objectively judge and compare one musical composition to the next, one has to apply the Mozart Rule. See Emily Play does, in fact, have more notes per minute than anything on Meddle. So it's settled. (kidding of course, I'm a big fan of Echoes). Of course we could apply Jim's rule: If you like it, it's really good.

KeithFan2112, thanks for the link to Lifehouse. I will give that a listen - such great songs!! I bloody love The Who. And yes to echo the common sentiment around here, I love The Who, and I love many of the other classic rock bands and artists: Floyd, Zep, the Doors, the Stones, Hendrix....and the list goes on. But over time, my love for all of them has been overshadowed by the Dead - not the best at what they do, the only ones who do what they do. I am really looking forward to 11/17/71 and 12/14/71 - fall 71 was a great stretch. Also the Dead's musical sensibilities are what got me into other artists I hadn't paid as much attention too when I first start my musical delving - the Dead took me away from the "guitar heroes" and blues giants, and brought me to Dylan, Johnny, Willie, Merle, Lefty, Gram, NRPS, the Byrds and the list of country artists and country-rockers ever grows, including, lately, Sturgill Simpson. For that I sincerely thank Jerry and the boys. Next hoping Dave mixes it up with something from the 60s, 80's or 90s, but always happy to just get that next release.

.......like the doors a lot.....love 65-74 who.....but I'll take the Stones and Zep over both.

Hey Mr. Dave, I know I've said it before, but, how about releasing a Dead/NRPS show from 1970? Garcia on pedal steel with the Riders and 2 Dead sets, I mean who wouldn't want that. OR a box set of the Dead's final run at the Fillmore East, in April 1971? Regardless, we appreciate/love what you're doing! Thanks!

The best thing The Who ever did was their performance on the Rock N Roll Circus. The Dirty Mac should've done more stuff (sans Yoko) The Who by Numbers is a great album. Tommy and Quadrophenia are interesting pieces of work but I have to be in the right mood. Of the two, I prefer Quadrophenia. I'm always in the mood to listen to anything The Doors did. (w/ Jim Morrison) ...just one man's opinion some people say cucumbers taste better pickled

A very UNDERRATED album and probably the most overlooked kick a@@ song HOWEVER MUCH I BOOZE, Townshend ever wrote IMHO. This album really flies under the radar. John Entwistle's Success Story also a great tune. Yes there are some slow tunes....BUT even those are great. Who doesn't love Cocktails in the BLUE, RED and GREY. Do yourself a favor give this album a listen. KEITHFAN....I have thoroughly enjoyed your input and knowledge on all WHO things related. I believe we are around the same age and would have had some great conversations in the 80's cafeteria line talking about The Who in High School..over some chocolate milk and toasted almond ice cream

My first subscription and bonus disc....

Wow, check out the little section of PITB from 3:55 - 4:10, during the jam. Fantastic. If they're locked in like that the whole show this one is going to be great. It sounds like Phil's bass got a bit of a boost on this one too, at least from the limited listen so far, but it seems be dialed back a bit from the Berkeley show. I want to take a another listen to last years' Felt show to see where he is in that mix. Can't wait for this one. And the upcoming Spring '73 box.

...We lost a great one, Eddie Cochran

Fire it up!

I believe how Dave explained it was that cover songs cannot be on the bonus disc because it is given away for free, and thus it would not be possible to generate royalties on a free item. He goes on to say that the cover songs are on the release that is purchased, and royalties are paid. As long as there are clean breaks between the songs it should be fairly easy to reassemble the songs in the correct order.

Must be Emily as she went out to play. 70’s Floyd rocks! And I like 60’s Floyd too. Tommy studio album is pretty weak, but a live synopsis, such as Isle of Wight, is awesome. I believe that ‘Fiddle About’ is about Pete’s own experience with his uncle.

....ewwww.

That about sums it up. Did someone mention Box Set?

Not too excited about this one. Most Dave's Picks look like more-of-the-same-that's-already-released to me. He always says/writes that their are unique qualities to the show involved. I usually don't notice those... At this point in the game such statements on his part actually annoy me and sour my expectations.However, I do think 10-12/71 is really good stuff. The Saloon Band period with confident Barrelhouse piano added as a second lead instrument; so fine! Really unhappy with what they did to 12/14. Icecreamkid says: "As long as there are clean breaks between the songs it should be fairly easy to reassemble the songs in the correct order." Well, the way GDM track-indexes releases often means that a song's track includes all the time between it and the first actual note of the next song. Even a count-in is part of the previous song's track. Stitching this together in real order without many warts will require dumping all the tracks into an editting software and retracking. People here already expressed valid complaints about the idea of making one complete set the bonus disc (a mere First Set as the spectacular bonus- not spectacular enough! The Second Set only available as the subscriber bonus- too cruel!), so I see the reasons not to have gone that route. And the "no (royalty-payment-requiring) covers" rule certainly limited what could be done. Ultimately I would have rathered 12/14 be kept for a complete release. BUT, BIG PROPS to GDM/Dave for EXPLAINING their actions! I have commented on many release threads that explaining controversial actions would be a good thing. Ultimately, I would like explanations in the release booklet, not in an ephemeral video. But that's the next step. This step, offering any explanation, greatly pleases me and I extend my thanks. I hope explanations will become a part of each release. Most of us have at least one quibble with pretty much any release and explanations will do much to smooth ruffled feathers...

PHISH, TUESDAY 10/31/1995 ROSEMONT HORIZON Rosemont, IL Soundcheck: Guyute, Suzy Greenberg (x2), Jam, Suzy Greenberg, Jesus Just Left Chicago, Jam SET 1: Icculus, Divided Sky, Wilson > Ya Mar, Sparkle > Free, Guyute, Run Like an Antelope, Harpua[1] SET 2: I Am the Sea[2], The Real Me[2] > Quadrophenia[2], Cut My Hair[2], The Punk Meets the Godfather[2], I'm One[2], The Dirty Jobs[2] > Helpless Dancer[2], Is It In My Head?[2], I've Had Enough[2], 5:15[2], Sea and Sand[2], Drowned[2], Bell Boy[3], Doctor Jimmy[2] > The Rock[2], Love, Reign O'er Me[2] SET 3: You Enjoy Myself, Jesus Just Left Chicago[4], A Day in the Life > Suzy Greenberg[5] ENCORE: My Generation[6] [1] Narration from Mike about raccoons. [2] Phish debut; Dave Grippo on alto saxophone, Don Glasgo on trombone, Joey Sommerville on trumpet and Alan Parshley on French horn. [3] Phish debut; Dave Grippo on alto saxophone, Don Glasgo on trombone, Joey Sommerville on trumpet and Alan Parshley on French horn, Leigh Fordham sang Keith Moon's original part. [4] Dave Grippo on alto saxophone. [5] Dave Grippo on alto saxophone, Don Glasgo on trombone, and Joey Sommerville on trumpet. [6] Phish debut; acoustic. Harpua included a story from Mike about a dream about raccoons. The Michael Jackson references continued, as Trey teased the audience by saying that Jimmy was listening to the Halloween album while the band played a Beat It tease. Also, the second set was preceded by recorded Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' and Thriller teases from Michael Jackson's Thriller album. The second set "musical costume" was The Who's Quadrophenia and was performed with Dave Grippo on alto saxophone, Don Glasgo on trombone, Joey Sommerville on trumpet and Alan Parshley on French horn. During Bell Boy, crew member Leigh Fordham, clad in a bell boy outfit, sang Keith Moon’s original part. All of the Quadrophenia songs, as well as My Generation, were Phish debuts. YEM was almost 40 minutes long, contained teases from Trey of The Real Me and DEG, and was preceded by the audience chess move. The chosen fan, dressed as a Wookiee, cracked under the pressure and could not choose a move on stage, prompting a quote from Fish that “Wookiees can’t play chess.” The Rock was teased after the failed move. Jesus Just Left Chicago featured Grippo on alto saxophone; Suzy Greenberg featured Grippo, Glasgo and Somerville. My Generation was performed acoustic. Before My Generation, the crew set up a Keith Moon replica drum set on stage. After the song, Fish and Trey destroyed the drum set a la The Who. Finally, a stagehand brought out a large plunger. Trey pressed it and set off a huge explosion backstage. This show was officially released as Live Phish 14. In the soundcheck, Suzy Greenberg was performed three times: the first with only Grippo, the second with the band and Grippo, and the third with all of the horns, alternate lyrics, and Bell Boy quotes. The jam through the end of the soundcheck was played with horns.

....very nice.

I do like both bands, but if I have to choose one it will be The Who.Perhaps if The Doors were around longer I might have a different choice? For me, Quadrophenia is THE best studio album of all time, period. Rock on

Truckin', Sugaree, Mr. Charlie, Beat It On Down The Line, Loser, Jack Straw, Next Time You See Me, Tennessee Jed, El Paso, Big Railroad Blues, Me & My Uncle, Run Rudolph Run, Black Peter, Playin' In The Band, Casey Jones, Ramble On Rose, Mexicali Blues, Big Boss Man, Cryptical Envelopement-> Drums-> The Other One-> Me & My Uncle Jam-> The Other One-> Wharf Rat, Sugar Magnolia, You Win Again, Not Fade Away-> Goin' Down The Road Feelin' Bad-> Not Fade Away

Fiddle About was written by John Entwistle not Creepy Pete. I believe it is about Pete and his uncle, but he didn’t write it.

Heya comment #83: Thanks for that curated collection of Lifehouse tracks! Great. As you may know, in 2000 Pete put together a band to present Lifehouse as a whole. It ain't the Who; it includes an orchestra as well as rock band, but it's available on a commercial DVD called Music From Lifehouse, and has a pretty solid, if brief, booklet about his very Dead-like vision for the tale (a band and its community of listeners as one, the audience as central as the band--truly, the ambition was insane, to film live shows and have the "story" emerge organically depending on what happened in the audience, etc.....very Pranksterish in its ambition and perhaps futile over-reach). Of course he also put out a comprehensive 6CD Lifehouse Chronicles on his own website, but I'm pretty sure that's sold out.

Bummed to have missed out on this release. This is the first year I didn't subscribe. With that being said, I'm not the biggest fan of late '71 Dead as many of the "new" songs were still really immature, and I prefer the more driving Other Ones from 68-mid 1970 than the more aimless ones from the 71-74 era. The "new" material really crystallized at the back half of the Europe '72 tour, so while I'm bummed I didn't get this release (I live in ABQ), I know I have enough already to satisfy me.

Well, it's happened again.Announced and sold out in the same day When will they learn ? Yes they bumped it up to 18,500 But it should have been 20,000 So maybe next year it will be 25,000 unless they're planning on releasing a bunch of 80's and 90's shows

I would assume they "can" use cover songs on bonus discs if they want. When Dave said they "can't", that seems likely shorthand for "above my head the decision was made not to spend to pay for the rights to covers on a bonus disc". I would guess that it just means that since bonus discs don't generate revenue, the costs for them come from a "promotions/marketing budget". And someone could easily decide not to use a limited promotional budget on covers, when they can easily be put on the revenue discs, thus having the costs come from an operational budget, not a promotional budget. Lots of talk sometimes about "the cost is the same either way", but that isn't always how a business operates.

David, you make Doc and me happy. Not to mention J Franklins Tower!. New Mexico rocks! Red or Green?

....if this listening party was chicken wings, I would eat three pounds of them.

Would you say you eat more chicken than any man ever seen?

....but the little girls understand.

Yes, Vguy, even Morrison was poking fun at commercial capitalism with his lyrical quips. ...but we have so much beautiful music at our disposal. ENJOY IT ALL, my friend

Y'all, the condescending attitude, unwitting or intended, that Dave & Co have to endure from some folks is brutal. Exhibit A: One head below declares that he's 1) "Not too excited about this one" - "more-of-the-same-that's-already-released", (kind of a party pooper but we hear that a lot) 2) Dave's comments regarding the release "annoy" him and "sour" his expectations (??? how dare Dave speak!), 3) "really unhappy" with what they did to 12/14 and would have preferred a standalone release (yeah, get angry!), 4) he wrote "explaining controversial actions would be a good thing. Ultimately, I would like explanations in the release booklet, not in an ephemeral video. But that's the next step. This step, offering any explanation, greatly pleases me". too much.... Looking forward to this release, and I love getting two shows in one. 11/15/71 Road Trips is among my favs, and this is a great companion to that release. Thanks Dave and Co.

SEE????? "fiddle about" fucking ewwwwww.... I wont listen to it.makes me want to throw up all over the place

By the way I absolutely love having this subscription where every 3 months I get a show in the mail. So very Grateful for that & it's a super great deal money wise. And I most definitely love Dave. But perhaps he is running out of things to say in each video. "It's really an exceptional show. Performance wise you've never heard anything like this". I'll take that as a little bit of hyperbole coupled with genuine excitement. Rather than saying come on, Dave, give me a break. (Hey, hey, hey, hey, one break coming up!)

I believe that when Dave sets out to find the primo shows that possess to the finest parts of the elegant music of the past, he blocks out things like giving a few different era's or years into the brew to mix it up. Some people like I,believe that focusing on the sets that just send shivers through you body when listening is the true way to go about it. Also the calm before the storm of waiting for the results is just as sweet. Peace everyone!!

i've been listening to a lot of 71 lately (thanks Doc!) and even though April 71 is a different beast than nov/dec 71, my mind and mood are fully ready for this new release-thank you Dave! I didn't watch the video, but did Dave say how the masters for this show were returned?

is the best to me.

He didn't say "which batch", but he did say he wasn't expecting this tape when it came. Knew it as a show that didn't circulate in good quality, and was glad to get it. If it's anywhere near the Q of 11/15/71 we're going to be very happy in 2 weeks!

Okay, Fiddle About is not the song for you. Great, think you've covered that a few times. It's like 90 seconds of a 78 min album, and was put on there because the vulnerable hero of the story is, like many children, sexually abused. This happened to Pete Townshend, and it was too close to him, so he asked John Entwistle to write it and Cousin Kevin. I get it, you don't like the theme of it. So, my advice would be to not listen to it. But that one song does not sum up The Who, nor does it really have any bearing whatsoever to a conversation that goes a bit deeper than "ewww". The End has a Oedipal conclusion in which the killer walks on down the hall and announces he wants to kill his father and screw his mother, and is one of the quintessential Doors songs, but I guess because it's based in Greek tragedy, that deserves a pass? Bad things happen in life, artists tend to memorialize those bad things through their particular medium. This one obviously bothers you, but you may not want to lay the blame on The Who for that, it's not celebratory of pedophilia, it traumatizes Tommy even further. And again, it's a 90 second song out of 24 songs on an album that was released in 1969 on their 4th album, they did do subsequent things that don't deal with pedophilia...

Stonking good clip of The Who live in 1969. Strange that they are being compared to The Doors on here-apart from the fact that they were around at the same time, and each had 4 members, there isn't much that the two bands had in common, that I can hear. When I was a teenager, in the early 70s, the New Musical Express, which was the trend setter of the day, heralded three bands as being "the best in the world"-who they thought were head and shoulders above everyone else. They were The Stones, The Who and Led Zeppelin. Of these, the only one I saw live at the time was The Stones in 1973-and probably because of this, they were the pick of the bunch for me. I thought The Who were better than Led Zeppelin. Actually, I would still rate them in that order today.

With daverock comparing the who and the doors really doesn't make sense they were two essentially different bands outside of superficially silly reasons. NME's position on the 3 best in the world is a little suspect everyone being British. But the fact remains the shows of all 3 in 70/71 all kicked butt

Great point on this whole Who Doors comparison. I don't get it as they are not similar at all in their approach to rock music. The Rolling Stones, The Who and Led Zeppelin. Now you are talking. I'd go with the mighty Led Zeppelin followed by the Kinks, The Stones and then the Who. Dirty old river, must you keep rolling, Flowing into the night, People so busy, makes me feel dizzy, Taxi light shines so bright... But I don’t need no friends, As long as I gaze on Waterloo sunset, I am in paradise

Seth, I'm stumped by your comments because they sound contrary to reality. You said: "I do think 10-12/71 is really good stuff. The Saloon Band period with confident Barrelhouse piano added as a second lead instrument; so fine!" Isn't one show from 11/17 another from 12/14 pretty much the same thing, with the same Barrelhouse piano player? The shows you're comparing as bad vs good are a month apart. I was also surprised by this statement, and I'll tell you why I'm surprised, as it was thought provoking: "He always says/writes that their are unique qualities to the show involved. I usually don't notice those... At this point in the game such statements on his part actually annoy me and sour my expectations." I thought back as far as I could go, and he's always been spot-on with the highlights of these shows: DaP 12 - Dave mentioned how unique and cool Stella Blue was, and sure enough, it's one of the best, with a very cool spacey intro. DaP 15 - he mentioned Wharf Rat was one of the best ever, and it is. Everyone was jazzed about the ending jam (and it gets a lot of recognition on Heady Version) DaP 17 - he mentioned the awesome and unusual sounding solo in Scarlet Begonias, and it truly is bitchin. May be the best Scarlet of '74. DaP 18 - he mentioned the 8 minute instrumental ending to Comes a Time as being totally face melting, and everyone does did it (lots of great feedback about it on the message boards). DaP 19 - he touted Mason's Children as being maybe the best ever. without a doubt, and a lot of people agreed here. and it's numero uno on heady version DaP 20 - he said nothing good about this show, and he was right DaP 22 - he said Smokestack Lightning was a contender for best ever, and there's no question about it. It's certainly my favorite, and it had to topple down the Three From The Vault version. Keith's piano addition is face melting. Those are just the ones I remember, and I'm outta time. You make it sound like he makes this shit up, but everyone agrees with him after they get their hands on the release. I don't know man, I guess I just don't see what's to dislike about Dave. He's an enthusiastic Dead Head. You don't realize how bad this release program could have been with someone at the helm who is not a fan. But why even watch the release videos if you dislike them so much?

I prefer the Doors personally, like someone else already posted earlier, the Who have a few songs that make just one cringe. I probably enjoy the album 'Tommy' the most from the Who, and/but it's definitely one I have to be in the mood to sit down and listen to. On the other hand I can listen to pretty much any of the Door's albums all the way through whenever. (I really enjoy the albums 'The Doors', 'Strange Days' and 'Waiting for the Sun') I can definitely see the Who appealing to more of the general public though, there are many people that can't even speak much/if any english that love the who. Everyone everywhere has heard the Who's Greatest Hits somehow overtime, thats completely understandable for more than a few reasons.

This Who/Doors discussion reminds me of the movie "It Follows". No matter where you go, there it is. Pretty sure Bolo mischievously brought it over from the DaP26 board. Hopefully we can shake it before 27 is announced. But if I had to weigh in between the two, I'd take Tom Petty any day (band and solo).

Here's some blistering rock 'n roll from the Who. Townshend is a beast on the Gibson SG (I'm not sure why anyone would stop playing this guitar). Pete's solo here is vicious. And there are parts where the three of them harmonize that are incredible. For those not as familiar with the band, this song is a John Entwistle song called Heaven and Hell, which they opened with most of 1969/1970. It never made an official album, but it might be his best song - go figure. We missed Uncle Bobo's introduction by a few seconds (cut from the video) kevinbrandon, I didn't know you were a Who fan - but I'm REALLY surprised you knew I like toasted almond ice cream :D I think the Who talk will die down soon. I'm done, but wanted to post this because it's the first time I've heard this version and I got excited.

I have been meaning to jump in the the Who-Doors discussion as it began on the DaP 25 page. Well at least a lengthy Doors discussion had brewed up. Regarding The Doors, they were the first band I got really in to. I bought every album I could get my hands on- even American Prayer. I thought way back when they had or maybe Jim Morrison had, some crazy insight into the world and such. Many years later, I don't feel that way as much. However I do think Morrison had a gift for lyrics (even if they didn't always make sense) and theatrics on stage. I don't feel like he was always on point, but I feel like if Jim and the band were synced, well that might have been quite the experience. As for the band themselves, I do think they had talent, albeit in a unique way. I often wonder how they would have turned out if Jim had not checked out and if he would have still been into music and performing. On an interesting GD Europe 72 note, The Doors in their short post-Morrison period played The Beat Club in 72 just as the Dead did that year. There are Youtube videos of their performance. It is different, definitely lacking lyrically in many ways, but musically I liked a lot of it. As for the Who, I dig them, I think they rocked even if they played the same sets and such. I think the Who and The Doors are a not a run-of-the-mill comparison though. I think it is neat to make the comparison, but it is not the first one that comes to mind for me.

....doors this. who that. have you ever heard of this band (looks over both shoulders carefully) called The Grateful Dead? no? You haven't? Well, do I have a band for you....