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    heatherlew
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    "The Grateful Dead picked up their instruments and hit the first note with perfection. They never missed a note for the next three and one-half hours. People followed the flow of the tunes. Down on the floor in front of the stage was a sea of heads keeping time with the music. No one sat still. No one, except the youngsters behind us sat still. They were still and stunned." - The Power County Press

    And what a stunner it was, that show at the Boise State University Pavilion in Boise, ID on September 2, 1983. Dave's Picks Volume 27 contains every stitch of music from this mid-80s show (our first in this series), one that's as good as any other in Grateful Dead history. When the Dead were on, they were ON! Straight out the gate with a definitive take on the old standard "Wang Dang Doodle," the band swiftly switches back to a setlist of yore, firing off 70s staples like "Jack Straw" and "Brown-Eyed Women" and wrapping things up with a terrific trio of "Big Railroad Blues"/"Looks Like Rain"/"Deal" (don't you let that epic guitar solo go down without you). Primed for the second set, they tackle the complexities of "Help>Slipknot!>Franklin's" with heart and ease. It's clear there will be no stopping their flow - Bobby and Brent hanging in for a fantastic pre-Drums "Jam" and Jerry and Bobby in the zone on a not-to-be-missed melodic "Space." Not a skipper in the whole lot!

    Dave's Picks Volume 27 has been mastered to HDCD specs by Jeffrey Norman and it is limited to 18,000 individually-numbered copies*.

    *Limited to 2 per order. Very limited quantity available.

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  • icecrmcnkd
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    Grand Delusion
    $5750 for DaP 1-27. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Grateful-Dead-Daves-Picks-Volume-1-27-Bonus-Di…
  • stoltzfus
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    9/21/82
    worth a listen
  • stoltzfus
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    electric fence frontier foundation
    either you get it or you don't A tip of the hat to John Barlow
  • Vguy72
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    The husband leans over and asks his wife....
    ...."Do you remember the first time we had sex together over fifty years ago? We went behind the village tavern where you leaned against the back fence and I made love to you." Yes, she says, "I remember it well." OK, he says, "How about taking a stroll around there again and we can do it for old time's sake?" "Oh Jim, you old devil, that sounds like a crazy, but good idea!" A police officer sitting in the next booth heard their conversation and, having a chuckle to himself, he thinks to himself, I've got to see these two old-timers having sex against a fence. I'll just keep an eye on them so there's no trouble. So he follows them. The elderly couple walks haltingly along, leaning on each other for support aided by walking sticks. Finally, they get to the back of the tavern and make their way to the fence The old lady lifts her skirt and the old man drops his trousers. As she leans against the fence, the old man moves in.. Then suddenly they erupt into the most furious sex that the policeman has ever seen. This goes on for about ten minutes while both are making loud noises and moaning and screaming. Finally, they both collapse, panting on the ground. The policeman is amazed. He thinks he has learned something about life and old age that he didn't know. After about half an hour of lying on the ground recovering, the old couple struggle to their feet and put their clothes back on. The policeman, is still watching and thinks to himself, this is truly amazing, I've got to ask them what their secret is. So, as the couple passes, he says to them, "Excuse me, but that was something else. You must've had a fantastic sex life together. Is there some sort of secret to this?" Shaking, the old man is barely able to reply, "Fifty years ago that wasn't an electric fence."
  • Terrapin Moon
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    phish will be doing another
    phish will be doing another free webcast tonite at 7pm Eastern Time. Livephish.com has details
  • Mr. Ones
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    Dosed at the DMV
    Jim, I have spent a day dosed at the DMV, then again, I work there so...... P.S. direwulf gets it-as a 'merican, I forgot that most other countries use celsius as a scale. I thought that's what made us great......again. Thanks for the bikini chuckle P.P.S. stoltzie gets it too-I almost always get a chuckle from you. Thanks!! We'll never know what's good, if we don't have bad to compare it to.
  • Gollum
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    direwulf
    Thanks for that link direwulf. Lots of that was new to me. Loved that pre-LaBamba jam! Yes, Jerry looked so happy and healthy with Bruce. That was about the time he was making those great recordings with Grisman, too.
  • Kayak Guy
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    a tale of the tapes
    a tale of the tapes. according to Deadbase, there are 2314 shows, of those there are 450+ Pigpen shows, 403 Keith shows, 810 Brent shows and 378 Vince shows. of the Brent shows almost 700 are cassettes/PCMs recorded by Dan Healy from the PA SBD to check out how Dan's mix sounded, not ever considered for release. The Keith shows were recorded reel to reel from a separate mixing console from the PA and the Betty Boards were mixed on headphones and in no way match what was heard in the hall. don't believe me try an AUD tape for the same show, try a different AUD tape if there is one. these 70s Reel to Reels were also never considered for release. they were for band reference and they had enough of a budget they didn't have to reuse them, like some of the Radio City multi track show tapes that got recycled by Arista after Dead Set & Reckoning came out. aside from 100 or so special events that were recorded on multi track for eventual release that made it into the Vault, everything else is 2 tracks mixed for reference listening, Betty's, FM broadcasts or to hear how the live mix sounded compared to the sound in the hall. the cost of the Plangent process, (analog to digital transfer), precludes them using it on most Dave's Picks because it is cost prohibitive and will probably only be used in box sets from now on. Dave's Picks are not worth the expense or time to Plangent, so instead we get Jeffery Norman magic to try and make it sound as good as possible from the in house master tape digitization. which means releasing the returned Betty's as Dave's picks is denying the chance for future Plangent processing, the good Betty's will be held for the annual box sets as the multi tracks have been already milked for most of what's available. more fall 89 multi tracks anyone? then there's the Bear audio journals, which are basically 2 track mono recordings with the amplified instruments in one channel and the PA (drums, vocals and keyboard) in the other. if you want to make the pre 1969 stuff sound really good, listen to it in mono with the vocals centered and the instruments on top of each other and not next to each other. you are not losing anything as the Bear tapes have no real stereo separation, he was hearing impaired in one ear and couldn't hear stereo. this leaves about 1600 possible shows on stereo tapes of which less than 500 are Reel to Reel and the rest cassette and digital tapes. this means whats left for Dave's choices are mostly cassette SBDs from the PA or he's eating into the potential for future box sets. maybe this means less people will subscribe in the future and there will be more of a chance for the average fan to get a copy of a show he wants ala carte, is that a bad thing? maybe Rhino plans to start allowing digital downloads, but without the budget for Normanization or packaging at $20 a show to start making some profit on the rest of the vault? difficult to believe, as since the bankruptcy of Music Today all previous digital downloads are still unavailable and Warner Music, the new distribution for Dead.net, only has digital downloads for the new releases. from the Spring 90 TOO page Digital Download Digital downloads have been temporarily disabled while we work on resolving the technical issues. Previous purchasers will be notified when the problem is resolved. the first 15 years of the GD the band played mostly small halls to limited audiences, with the large festival exceptions. the 2nd 15 years the band became one of the top selling live acts, for most of the last 10 years they were in football stadiums and huge arenas, so the potential of "i was there" buyers is far greater than the early years. it is very likely more people saw the band with Brent or Vince than the combined years for Pigpen and Keith. it is inevitable that Dave's Picks start mining the last 15 years and now seems as good a time as any. the new licensing deal with Rhino still has 8 years left to prepare releases from whats in the vault. if getting a Brent show is that distasteful to you, maybe you shouldn't get a subscription and try for the left overs of the era you like when they go on sale, instead of insulting the people that went to and enjoyed the shows that were poorly recorded with no intention of being used for a release.
  • ronny_kaplan@y…
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    Dave's Picks 27
    This my least favorite show so far. The sound is ok but the playing just seems mediocre and the singing is just bad. I subscribe each year and most of the shows are great, this just isn't one of them.
  • direwulf
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    Some nice guest spots
    This collection of Garcia guest-spots was put together by Jambase, there's some nice stuff in here if anyone's interested, sorry if it's been posted already. On the song "Barren Ground" the way Bruce and Jerry look at each other is truly one of equal admiration and family. It's unfortunate that Bruce couldn't have made his solo career and his permanent membership in the dead work out. Now, that could've been something...special. Take a break and come back with the new album, Hornsby, less pressure on the band and a reduced touring schedule. One can dream right?! https://www.jambase.com/article/remembering-jerry-garcia-live-guest-app…
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"The Grateful Dead picked up their instruments and hit the first note with perfection. They never missed a note for the next three and one-half hours. People followed the flow of the tunes. Down on the floor in front of the stage was a sea of heads keeping time with the music. No one sat still. No one, except the youngsters behind us sat still. They were still and stunned." - The Power County Press

And what a stunner it was, that show at the Boise State University Pavilion in Boise, ID on September 2, 1983. Dave's Picks Volume 27 contains every stitch of music from this mid-80s show (our first in this series), one that's as good as any other in Grateful Dead history. When the Dead were on, they were ON! Straight out the gate with a definitive take on the old standard "Wang Dang Doodle," the band swiftly switches back to a setlist of yore, firing off 70s staples like "Jack Straw" and "Brown-Eyed Women" and wrapping things up with a terrific trio of "Big Railroad Blues"/"Looks Like Rain"/"Deal" (don't you let that epic guitar solo go down without you). Primed for the second set, they tackle the complexities of "Help>Slipknot!>Franklin's" with heart and ease. It's clear there will be no stopping their flow - Bobby and Brent hanging in for a fantastic pre-Drums "Jam" and Jerry and Bobby in the zone on a not-to-be-missed melodic "Space." Not a skipper in the whole lot!

Dave's Picks Volume 27 has been mastered to HDCD specs by Jeffrey Norman and it is limited to 18,000 individually-numbered copies*.

*Limited to 2 per order. Very limited quantity available.

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Cub - Definitely a fan of listening to music on a pair of nice floorstanding speakers. The speakers I am using (Klipsch RP-280F) are pretty sensitive so I find I get plenty of volume and clarity using just a decent receiver (Yamaha RX-A1060), but it seems like you have taken it quite a bit farther. Working with the budget that I had to spend and the consideration of how far I could go without a bad reaction from my wife, that was about as far as I felt I could take it at the time. Honestly pretty pleased she adjusted to the size of the floorstanding speakers in the living room.
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who's selling Dave's vol 1 for 500 dollars? hell that's generous. its always a thousand if not up to 2 thousand on ebay everytime I look.
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That's the kindest thing anyone has said to me today. Thanks also to the people who gave me China Rider suggestions. I wrote them all down on the kitchen blackboard. I haven't heard a bad one yet. 12/31/69 really surprised me. I thought I was against the extra drums, I guess from Mickey in those older ones, but that one is great. 10/20/74 from the Movie Soundtrack, duh, I've had that one and somehow never copied it to my ipod with the rest of the box set so its kind of like a bonus track now. 2/9/73 also caught me by surprise because I didn't think I was that big on spring 73 since I thought the one on DaP 16 was just ok. 12/6/73 yes, may as well call it 74. I also jumped around arcive.org. I noticed some of those have Jerry or Bobby, one or the other too low. That's one song you need to hear both guitars!
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You need to look at the other side of the transaction, under Sold Items; it sells in the $350-400 range. Still a lot of dough, but at this point it's achieved collectible status, only by virtue of being vol. 1Kinda' like the original issue of the Amazing Spider-Man #1...
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well, i'll just say this: the generosity of the Dead Heads is alive and well. and I myself have paid it forward as well...god that phrase is so fucking lame, I need to shower I feel dirty
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12/1/79 one day this gem from Pittsburgh will see the light of the day with a shiny new Normanize. Here's an idea why not release 11/1/79 on 11/1/18 & then for Volume 30 go with 12/1/79 with 11/30/79 2nd set as the bonus disc? Isn't that a splendid idea, DeadLand?
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I feel your vibe for a 79 show....yes 12/1/79 is a gemstone!! Check your PM
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I wouldn't say it achieved collector's status only as a result of being vol 1. It is a damn good show too, where the band and vocals are mistake free and the playing is energetic. I would put it in my top 5 1977 shows, up there with probably 2/26, 5/9, 5/17, and 10/29. But it does help that it's the first of the series and that it's been unavailable for 6 years.
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A powerful piece.. Michael Caine delivers a powerful performance in the movie too. ok.. back to playing dead.
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The Crimson, White, & Indigo DVD has the full show that they're running in the theaters August 1st. That's not a bad thing, but there must be some shows that they could put on the big screen this year, shows that haven't already been purchased by many of us. Hippychic--one of my favorite China->Riders is from 7/21/74, at the Hollywood Bowl. Great audience recordings of this date abound on Archive.org. Everyone please remember to donate to the Live Music Archive periodically.
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...if only for the sake of interesting conversations! #27 ---- Good ear to those who heard the Aud patch on Big Railroad Blues...I did not notice that on my first listen. But thats probably a good thing, being good quality and all. MUATM -- kinda weird they are showing something that is available on DVD, but I still think it will be fun to watch on the big screen with great sound. Hopefully they are not stingy with the volume...In the past, I've had to beg the cinema employees to TURN IT UP!!! But this still begs the question, are they running out of options for the Meetup? I doubt it...
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Hey Now,maybe I can help you out. I have a DP 27 and more into the early years of the dead, ill be willing to part ways with it so if interested and want to know more hook up with me. Later, Rocco
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I'm up at Lake Tahoe right now, and Phish has been in town on a two day run here this week. However, some of the Phish Phans seem to be Phouling the Phorest, leaving trash all over the place. https://www.laketahoenews.net/2018/07/south-lake-tahoe-cops-phish-fans-… C'mon Phishers, a little more respect, huh? Keep up a good rep for the jam bands.
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Keith Godchaux...thanks for all the wonderful music you transmitted through your fingertips. R.I.P., old friend.
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HEAR HEAR BOLO! The Dead never would have reached the heights they achieved without Keith, imo. He helped turn a straight-ahead psychedelic rock band into a classy, glorious-sounding, well rounded ragtime band that turned 3D when the sun hit it just right.... And for that I thank him. I'll have to listen to Ramble on Rose tonight to celebrate. What are some of the better Keith recordings? (i.e.: good shows where he's high in the mix.)
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So now I have to tell a joke: Q: What did the janitor say when he jumped out of the closet? A: Supplies! ar ar ar....
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4/20/835/13, 14, 15/83 6/18/83 6/20/83 6/22/83 9/2/83 9/6/83 9/10/83 9/11/83 9/24/83 10/11/83 10/14/83 10/15/83 10/21/83 10/31/83 yep, plenty o' goodies in 83, Dave. I attended 3/27/83...meh also attended 7/30 and 7/31/83...they were fun, memory-wise. I think that's the first time I heard Touch of Grey. I liked it immediately.
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So I am totally interested in Dave's 27 what would you be willing to part with it for?? Thanks MN dead loving momma
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resist Dave's 17 aka 7/19/74 and Keith's birthday show to boot.Enjoyed reading N.G.Meriwether's write-up again - gives the show context. Be sure to "gear up" for this one, for it is not so laid back. The pudding starts with Playin;.
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Speaking of Dave's 17, Im surprised it doesn't get much love, just like vol.15, i think its a awesome show.
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Actually it's 12/12/73 and thank you - never heard that show. Crazy-fun soundcheck setlist, a late 2nd set China>Rider that smokes! And a happy birthday Dicky Betts (maybe he hung backstage but didn't play? I checked the 12/12/ date and it was not an ABB double-bill - or maybe they were just going for an easy cheer from the Atlanta audience). And yes some nice Keith in there! Thanks (to you AND Charlie Miller!).
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Like JiminMD says, the best Dark Star is whichever one happens to be the most recent one I listened to. I like this from 2/2/70 on Dave's Picks 6 a lot but its too short so I put it on again. I don't remember this ever getting much hoopla before. Is it really that great or am I just in a happy mood? When Dave's 27 arrives I feel like I want to start with disc 2.
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BRAND NEW/SEALED/BONUS LISTED ON AMAZON @ WARNERMARKET............DAVE'S PICKS: VOLUME 22 SEALED w/Bonus...$29.95! HIT IT!
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It's been a while since I gave that one a spin, will have to change that. ..I've never met a Dark Star I didn't like.
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....they can fit in any musical category if you look at them right. Like the Boxilla '68 Greek one, which just cued up. Or the Miami '89 mindfuck thats on deck. Worth the ticket price alone. Everything else is icing.
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I love Dave's 6 2/2/70 and 12/21/69, featuring two magnificent Dark Stars, each very different. Veneta 8/27/72 is just amazing, a 30 minute one that breezes by on a lysergic wave of energy before winding up in El Paso sung by a freaked out Weir. One that it reminds me of in an odd way is 11/11/73 Winterland, this one covers a lot of ground from a fantastic jazz excursion to some nice melodic weirdness towards the end of the nearly 36 minutes into a Mind Left Body Jam in double time. Dave's 13 also at Winterland 2/24/74 is another fantastic venture into the realm of Dark Star. My last listen to Dave's 19 1/23/70, I really enjoyed that one, too, but it did come out of That's It For the Other One, which adds extra oomph from the jump. And a show we probably all want to come out 2/18/71 with the infamous Dark Star> Wharf Rat (debut)> Beautiful Jam> Dark Star. One Normanized Star I want to hear is 3/24/72 from Rockin' the Rhein bonus disc. One Dark Star I avoid is Dave's 9 5/14/74, that one gets a little too dissonant for my tastes and does it for so long. Every time I try it again thinking I'll get over it I don't. But there's many other awesome Stars to focus on. For latter day versions, 3/29/90 of course and 4/1/91 Greensboro.
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I don't have a favorite Dark Star. To complicate things.. I find my mood and willingness to invest in what is often at least a half hour song impacts what I think of it. This sucks a bit.. but without a little mood enhancing help, that's just the way it is. Plus, I'm pretty busy as are likely most of you. So I have learned not to judge or invest myself into the outcome... just let it be and when I am rewarded I try to simply enjoy the moment. This approach seems to work just fine. The last one I listened to? Happens to be 10/19/73. It's currently my favorite but tomorrow never knows. Imagine that.
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alvarhanso, very interesting you spoke highly of the DaP 19 Dark Star. I've never considered this one of the stronger ones, but I'm going to give it a re-listen right now, sans The Other One. I have a little bit of a mental block on 1970 dark stars. They seem to either be in a class of their own or sound exactly the same to me. I'm not saying that as a fact just an impression. You also spoke of the Rockin the Rhein bonus disc Dark Star. This one's in my top 10. I read about someone on the Steve Forum site not liking this one and could do nothing but a Scooby-Doo "whaaaat??" I hunted that bonus this down for years on eBay and then ended up putting on two of them in the same week thinking I wasn't going to win both auctions, but I did. Ended up trading the second one for the closing of winterland bonus disc and one other, I forget which. The February 2nd 1970 Dark Star is also one of my favorites, if not top 10 definitely top 15. This first 10 fill up very quickly. Jimbo thanks for the reminder on the 1019 Dark Star. I've been meaning to merge the Mind left body track that follows it with the actual Dark Star for some time now, but I always forget. I'm going to take care of that this morning. I figure, it do it on a few other dark stars, you know, include mind left body is part of the Dark Star. The real motivation is having the two pieces of music run contiguously on shuffle play. I'd like to start merging all of my China Riders as well. I'm on the fence about some of the other big ones. I merged all the dark stars with there medley tracks on Europe 72. I just keep them at the end of the tracklist in my digital music folder for each record. Definitely retirement activity, if that day ever comes.
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My two holy grail shows for DaP: 6/10/73 11/19/72 what I have will suffice for now apparently 11/19/72 is not in the vault (sad face) 6/10/73, on the other hand...
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Thanks for the heads up. I missed oout on this one and have been looking for a reasonably priced copy since!
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Help / slip/ Franklin - primo second set jam, sweet my brother and sisters! :)...then into eyes, after ‘ estimated profit ‘ just kidd’n :) Love it!
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I may be the lone voice of dissent...that Help on the Way is horrendous, so is the Slipknot riff; great ensuing jam though.
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Yo Cuz, you're not alone. The last '77 version is pretty bad to my ears, and the 80s versions seem mostly sloppy and lazy. Although I think the suite performances improved a lot by 1990, the June Winterland performance in '77 was, to my ears, the end of crisp and (as-if) well-rehearsed for that material. October '77: muscular and coked rising, agile and tight fading.
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PapaHooper, others......YOU'RE ALL WELCOME! CHECK OUT THE STANLEY MOUSE AND FRIENDS LITHOGRAPHS, TOO!
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Crippled but free, I was blind all the time I was learning to see.
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I have to say that as much of a Dark Star fanatic as I consider myself to be, I haven't heard all of them. I am definitely revisiting 10/19/73. I haven't listened to the show in a long time so it will be good to revisit it just for that reason alone. I will say that I often gravitate towards 8/27/72 as my favorite Dark Star, with 2/13/70 being close. I also like the 10/18/74 Dark Star especially because it comes out of Phil and Ned. Yet I need to revisit all of the vast 69, 70, 72, and 73 versions. I have a vacation coming up and I might have to make this a little project for myself. * I have a honorable mention: the 1/10/79 Dark Star is really good, actually so is the whole show. I am fairly confident this show is not in the vault so all I have heard are audience recordings. Still good though. As for Help>Slip>Franks my favorite version is from 10/19/76. The full video of the show is on YouTube so that is always a treat. They played this a lot in 76, but much mess in 77. I do agree that the 77 versions don’t sound as good as the 76 versions on the whole. Although I really like 5/22/77. As for the post 77, I think it is toss up. Interestingly I have found myself getting more into 1991 shows. The Bruce & Vince combo appeals to me. I picked up View from the Vault 2 which has a 2nd set opener of Help>Slip>Franks, and then Estimated > Dark Star following that. It is a great show and one I had never heard until I picked up it up a few weeks ago. Just the fact that it has all of that in the pre-drums sequence is really cool.
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Dark Star09/21/72 H-S-F 9/19/90
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Dark Stars, Help>Slip> Franklin's discussions are sweet. Its like a twofer and possibilities are rampant. As fate has it, I just listened to 2/15/73 yesterday - which has one of THE MOST accessible Dark Stars, I determined after my most recent-listen. I'm familiar with this, as one is with an old pair of Birks. Its comfy and groovy and familiar yet open to realms of PHIL and contains one of the most poignant, beautiful, and soulful intros into an early, inspired and very fun Eyes of the World...among others in a truly awesome show. Where and when is this one, Senior Norman et Lemeiux? https://archive.org/details/gd73-02-15.sbd.hall.1580.sbeok.shnf I love all Help Slip Franks to The Core. No exceptions. My favorites are the ones with the long jams in Help on the Way proper, then crazy slipknots; but of course an amazing up-tempo Franklin's could easily define a Triad....it is a Vehicle of Pure Joy in my book. Period. Happy Friday in Deadland. Sixtus P.S. Listening to this one linked below right now in my sunny Back Patioland via Sonos 'relisten' (best app to mirror The Entire GD Archive to BLAST ALL THROUGHOUT MY HOUSE WHEN IGGY IS GONE). This show though...It ROCKS. The Half Step is a must listen. As is the Bird Song, Victim (gasp!), and pretty much whole second set. Stir it Up, baby. I feel early '91 gets overlooked, prior to Brucey's formal arrival. I think Mortal Combat is the best video game ever. I disagree. I think Donkey Kong is the best video game ever. My lingering question...I keep hearing Bruce...i didnt think he joined until the end of March 91; but was he here this night? I didn't find an immediate answer after Googling, but I may have missed it in some comment or asterisk.. https://archive.org/details/gd1991-03-21.mtx.seamons.111877.flac16 P.P.S. -> KEITHFAN - A++ for spreadsheet-a-rama, man. holy moly it's a beautifully rendered Dark Star map over time...flux capacitor is ... Fluxing...
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Gotta jump back in here. Gratefulhan mentioned he hadn't heard them all (Dark Stars). Has anyone? I've heard all of the official releases, but certainly not all of the soundboards. I have a spreadsheet of Dark Stars on my wall at work, printed up landscape style, and the 1969 column runs right off the page (so I taped the rest of it from the next page - looks ridiculous). There are an assload of DS performances in '69, and the second biggest year is '68. I haven't heard nearly as many of those as are out there. That being said, I imagine they sound very similar. Here is how the numbers pan out: 1967: 1 1968: 34 1969: 66 1970: 21 1971: 12 1972: 31 1973: 18 1974: 7 If you want the spreadsheet with dates and colors, here's the link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1i2WC8iVKjn60HoKICZ6ygEkrIDV13SxD
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The 9/24/72 Dark Star (30 trips) has been getting HEAVY rotation in my cave the last few months. Lots of love has been given here to the 9/21/72 Star (DP36) but somehow people seem to overlook the 9/24/72 Star. As far as I can tell it's every bit as crispy as 9/21/72. 30 minutes of Lesh saturated bliss. (Oh, and Hippychic, it jams into an electrifying Philsoaked China-Rider) Thanks for the Martin Hayes tip dmcvt. I bought "Welcome Here Again" and have been listening to it all day. Really nice stuff, right up my alley. Have a good one folks!
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is 8-13-75 to my ears. Bob, Jerry, Billy and Phil have heard all the Dark Stars.
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