Grateful Dead

Very well 'splained! I needed that! ;-)

I liked the slide, eventually, once he became proficient....obviously not a virtuoso, but he did with slide like he did with everything else...his own way. Not going to argue that it didn’t sound worse than train brakes screeching or a cat in heat early on though!

...One night the 96 year old draws a bath, puts his foot in and pauses. He yells down the stairs, "Was I getting in or out of the bath?" The 94 year old yells back, "I don't know, I'll come up and see." He starts up the stairs and pauses, then he yells, "Was I going up the stairs or coming down?" The 92 year old was sitting at the kitchen table having coffee listening to his brothers. He shakes his head and says, "I sure hope I never get that forgetful." He knocks on wood for good luck. He then yells, "I'll come up and help both of you as soon as I see who's at the door."

I concur Captain Kirk, on all points. Has anyone found a better Boise '83 recording to post on here yet? NO. Thank you

My problem with this release is Jerry's voice. It is shot. During Black Peter I thought Jerry was going to die before Peter does.

So we agree-neither of us like Bob's slide playing. I was speculating on why someone might like it. In so doing I was reframing his..unusual.. approach as being the result of experimentation , rather than poor technique. No big deal. I wasn't aware this was a cliché-I've never read anyone else saying that. Unsurprisingly!

It’s painful to see folks trying to “compare” these wildly different kinds of recordings.So perhaps I can give a bit of reference for those who don’t understand? (If you do, pardon moi) The two biggetst apples vs oranges things to consider are multi-track versus 2 track stereo, and the purpose of the mix involved. The stuff most all y’all love so much were purposely, consciously mixed to listen to more like a studio mix if you will; balanced guitars, vocals etc. Betty et el had separate feeds JUST for recording, to listen to later etc. The 80s stereo mixes etc were a feed off the soundboard of which the mix was for the live reinforcement of sound relative to the venue etc. Guitars are often so loud on stage, that not as much needs to be reinforced through the PA, while the voice doesn’t normally have a “loud amp” so they need to be more prominent in the mix.....voices and acoustic instruments are not as loud as “guitar amps”....if you’ve ever tried to have a conversation next to someone cranking an amp you understand this... Now out in the audience, preferably in front of the soundboard, everything sounds appropriate, balanced etc. That’s the purpose of a live reinforcement mix; to sound balanced and good in the audience, so one can hopefully fully appreciate each and every channel. Also, unless you have a multi-track mix, you cannot go back and change individual tracks later. This would be like trying to lower the level of the bass guiitar, on a stereo, 2 track album your plating in your living room. You can mess with the tone of the bass, but you can’t do much about how loud or soft it was mixed. That’s why multi-track releases usually sound better. Perfect example is Live Dead, Skull fuck and Europe 72. Though they were recorded live, because their multi-track recordings, they were able to go back and sweat-in up the vocals, and in some cases even do overdubs (redos). That’s how they added Merls organ on Skull Fuck. Nowadays with auto tune, they can go back and fix flat or sharp vocals. My guess is they’ve done that with some of the old 70 shows, and DG in particular... The multi-tracks tend to be what audio folks call more “airy,” they breathe more, there is not as much compression of all the different sources, so the instruments stand out better. There is also the matter of physics as related to the increased tape area of multi track to cassette, and the usually increased speed the multi’s were recorded at. This also makes a huge difference. They multi’s also don’t usually have much as far as effects on them. That is added later as need be, for different purposes, and usually more sparingly, another plus of Muliti. The live house mix has the same effects used by Healy to enhance the sound in the venue, not for your living room, and certainly not for your car.... Hopefully this helps to see how completely different these techniques are, and how their inherent characteristics based on their intended purposes make them so very different......also hope it helps understand how often the vocal to instrument balance can be so different too? One more notable fact. No soundboard recording, whether multi or stereo sounds exactly like the actual instruments recoded. Take Phil’s Alembic bass sounds on all the 70s releases everyone loves so much. As great as Beatty et el did, I’ve never heard a SB only mix that sounds what his rig really sounds like live in a actual hall. This is based on owning/using the same gear, and working with other musicians as a tech. There is Increased full freaquncy range live, versus the often overly middy sound of especially the Alembic basses direct....this is in part because a direct to tape mix does not incorporate all the other gear in the line; pre-Amps, eq, even the power amps can effect tone, especially more power. The great thing about huge amps isn’t that they can be louder, it’s that they have way more tone, or fuller sound, without having to be loud! So if you must compare, try to understand what your comparing. Of course with any audio, gear, speaker set up etc. the bottom line is YOUR point of reference and what YOU like. Also, the Dead played for thirty years, not four or seven....some of us want to hear as much of all years as reasonably possible. Obviously there are some shows that are better than others, and some years have much more consistency But that doesn’t mean there are not great shows from all years. The problem is mostly finding both great shows, that were recorded well that also sound great.... This is what Dave has alluded to. And yes, unfortunely, for much of the eighties these 2 track House mixes are all there is. I’m with the folks who would rather have a great show, even only from a house mix. As Eecktars rule of relativity states sometimes “a little bit of somethin’ is better than all of nothing” And hey, like some have said, If unfortunately you don’t dig some of this stuff a) don’t buy it, b) don’t listen, and/or c) sell it or pass it on “take what you need and leave the rest”! Remeber what I think Vguy said “ remember how bad old shitty cassettes with the hiss, wow, and flutter sounded” This perhaps is a fairer more reasonable comparison; old 2 track cassette soundboards to this type of release. Comparing Multi track recordings intended for remix, mastering and duplication for release I.e., 90 boxes, E72, Live Dead etc, to stereo cassettes based off of the house mix and intended more as a way to critique the house mix, is beyond apples and oranges ; )

I make every effort not to think about how much we paid for Dave’s Picks 1 thru 10. Or all the box sets we missed first time around. Very glad we own them as we love it all, but it took a large amount of money to own em’. At least we’re caught up now and can own what’s going to come out from now on.

daverock, if your comment is not meant to be ironic, I applaud your positive spin on Bobby's slide. But with all due respect, you're comment comically hits EVERY cliché in the book! You sound like the father of 3rd grader following a disastrous violin recital, PLEADING with his wife to let the lessons continue.. After 52 Dead shows I think I have PTSD and am not capable of blowing such blindly effusive sunshine, or even reading it without a visceral gag reflex. (And vGuy, that photo is priceless). Bobby is inventive in his rhythm playing, but slide? When you have no licks and ZERO pitch awareness/control (Duane never hit a discordant note within a year of learning slide), then just say No. Jerry was asked if he was embarrassed by Bobby's slide in an interview, and he responded "Well, HE isn't embarrassed which is all that matters" as if to say: "Yep, embarrassing, but what do you want me to do?". And I disagree with the assertion that "he didn't rely on tried and tested licks when he played slide". Yes he did - he played the most basic, sophomoric licks imaginable - and basically the same stuff every time!! I bet you can't find two Bobby slide solos on Minglewood that are materially different - I can whistle his basic formula in my sleep, unfortunately: one verse (4 notes!) low on the neck, then repeat the same 4 notes up an octave (genius!), going to the 3rd octave on the turnaround!!! That 3rd octave is the killer - ALL the way up the neck beyond the frets and even the neck pickup (the Cheez Wiz zone) where pitch control is almost impossible, hitting nonsensical discordant shrieks while posing flamboyantly like Pete Townshend (I'm CRUSHING this!!!!!") - as if piercing, warbly dog-frequencies are musical Nirvana. (However, if your wording of "didn't rely on tried and tested licks" means he didn't practice, then I agree!) Bobby's slide playing makes Donna's early-70's "Playing' in the Band" warbles sound like virtuosity, yet people flame her mercilessly. At least Donna eventually figured out how to better monitor herself and make it work after a year or two, while after 3 decades of playing slide Bobby still sounds like a struggling middle school guitar student. Phew! OK, I feel better now.... that hit a nerve..... Apologies if my strong opinion upsets any Bobby-soxers out there. But if ya can't handle an honest, unfiltered opinion on the internet... (And yes, his rhythm guitar IS undeniably unique and inventive, of course, starting in '72/'73. Perhaps the most underrated rhythm player ever. Wait till you hear Bobby on 6/22/73!!! Hall-of-Fame stuff.)

After offering my positive review of the quality of Dave's 27, I was reading the many so-so, reviews about which instruments are not heard compared to other releases. How are you listening to this? Are you formulating your opinion based on a car multi-speakers or ear buds (high-end headphones aside) or a MONO mini blue tooth speaker? I just got back to listening to all my GD and JGB in STEREO. Try a listen with some floor standing speakers (3 way) and 2 dedicated amplifiers about 250w ea. I was recently gifted this gear from a fellow head who had it in climate-storage for 28 years. I started to re-listen to everything I was sent from GD mdse and WOW what a game changer. I Instantly tried kicking myself for having left stereo listening of the 70s and 80's for multi-speaker Dolby Theater setups of the mid-90s', to present day 7 speaker home theaters w subs and rear speaker's. Now it's "Back-To-The-Future" listening with only two speakers separate from my home theater. The shows are not recorded for multi speaker Dolby, so why play them that way. Stereo images across the landscape between the two speakers (not across your desk) so that you can hear the different instruments and vocals spread-out as played on the stage. Now if anyone wants to school me on STEREO or your particular home system equipment I'm all ears. Thank you PS: Due to permanent/painful ear damage I'm not the one who listens to my purchases with headphones.