Grateful Dead

I keep hearing all the cool kids saying this release sounds great and features the band in top form (with just a few exceptions, such as Black Peter). I'm just not hearing it. I keep putting it back on, thinking maybe I just didn't adjust the equalizer correctly, but it still sounds awful mostly. I hear moments of good playing, but like the one guy said, every time I start grooving to something, some off kilter element yanks me out of it. I understand where you're all coming from. When we really love a version of the band, we listen to it all with passion and I think probably aren't affected by the negative elements. There can't be so many people wrong about how bad they think it is, and conversely, there can't be so many people wrong about how good they think it is. Just always going to be cheers and jeers, that's just the way it is. Get it. That's just the way it is. Love ya'll. Edit - Jason, just saw your data here, going to read it in a few, looks interesting,thanks for taking the time.

There have been a lot of '80's Dead/Brent releases with the Spring '90, Warlocks, '90 TOO, RFK, View From the Vault, etc. In terms of actual releases/shows, the totals (including partials, etc) look like this, and I may be missing some of the partials/splits/multi-year stuff (Garcia Plays Dylan, etc). Generally speaking, there has been a very good job of releasing more from the peak years (IMHO = 70's, '69, '89-'90) while getting something from every year (30 Trips Helped). Did not break down by #shows, includes digital downloads, not included Pacific NW yet. Rank, Year, # Releases, # Discs 1. 1972, 16, 119.25 (peak Dead, justifiably #1, K&D & Pig) A+ 2. 1977, 15, 72.50 (peak late era K&D) A+ 3. 1990, 10.5, 64.50 (peak Brent era) A 4. 1973, 11, 41.0 (PC NW coming) (peak early Keith) A+ 5. 1978, 10, 41.0 (darn good late era K&D) A- 6. 1974, 13, 40 (PC NW coming) (darn good early Keith) A- 7. 1971, 13, 36.12 (darn good year, multiple lineups) A 8. 1969, 9.5, 31.90 (Peak Pig & TC) A+ 9. 1976, 8, 28.0 (improved Donna) A- 10. 1989, 8.5, 27.50 (darn good Brent era) A- ----------------------- 11. 1970, 9.5, 20.83 (the new tunes explode) A ------I would consider this the line for "A" years------ 12. 1980, 8.15, 19.0 B+ 13. 1979, 7, 19.0 B+ ------------------------ 14. 1991, 4, 11.50 15. 1968, 6, 11.30 T16. 1981, 3, 9.0 T16. 1983, 3, 9.0 (This is a C year) T16. 1988, 3, 9.0 19. 1987, 4, 8.5 20. 1982, 3, 8.0 21. 1966, 4.57, 7.50 22. 1985, 3, 7.0 -----mostly C years from here--------- T23. 1992, 2, 6.0 T23. 1993, 2, 6.0 25. 1975, 2.5, 4.5 (B year, just no shows) 26. 1967, 1.5, 3.1 (B year, so few tapes) T27. 1984, 1, 3.0 T27. 1994, 1, 3.0 T27. 1995, 1, 3.0 30. 1986, 1, 2.0 31. 1965, 1, 0 (studio stuff/Birth) (no tapes available). Again, remarkably good distribution overall. Not so much with the Dave's Picks. Agree that 70's is better in a lot of respects (though not as much variance and fewer different songs) and certainly the sound quality is one factor (nothing matches a Betty). However, I have too many sweet sounding 80's boards to buy the idea that there are not many good sounding tapes in the vault to release them. As good as Betty's? No. Still very enjoyable? Yes. For 1967 I buy it, not for 1985 or 1989 or 1980. But I tend to be a show quality over sound quality guy anyway. Lastly, I do have a bit of a beef (small one) with Dave's 80's picks. A summer '89 Box that has no Alpine? Come on. No full 80's acoustic shows (yes, I know Dead Set/Reckoning)? I'll amend my original structure to Dick's Picks parameters. For every series of 6: 1) At least one Pig 2) At least one early Keith ('71-'74) 3) At least one late K&D ('76-'78) 4) At least one Brent/Bruce/Vince 5) At least one Epic/Iconic show (any era) 6) At least one lesser known great show (any era) Converting to Dave's picks parameters, every 3 years (12 releases), that would generate, thru 24 releases: 1) At least 4 Pigs (he does well here) 2) At least 4 early Keith's (he does well here) 3) At least 4 late K&D's (he does well here) 4) At least 4 Brent/Bruce/Vince (not enough but getting better) 5) At least 4 Epic/Iconic shows (he does fine here) 6) At least 4 undiscovered great shows (he does well here) Again, these are small nits to pick. A tad more Brent/later era stuff with a tad better selections from that era. Summer '85. Another fall '89 or '89 pre-midi. '87 when the comeback was in full swing and good vibes were everywhere. '80/'81 acoustic. A piercing Althea. I did not mean to seem too critical, if I came off that way, my apologies. Sorry for length, lazy Sunday.

Simonrob, Daverock, and the rest of us are catching flights to Vegas...... I love Amsterdam, but I think Vegas flights are cheaper.....and I speak the language......sort of.

The wet stuff is in short supply here in Europe this summer, as I'm sure you have seen on the (real) news. I also suspect that you are more than used to arid conditions there in Vegas.

....simonrob didn't pull the ripcord. Took the Switzerland route. I would very much like to meet you. Down some Belgian ales, spin some Dead, smoke some lettuce and enjoy the English garden rain.

I think that 5-8-77 sounds awesome. That reverb was on the first cassette I got of the show. Thus, it’s all I know. I also have the matrix and the 5.1 version. I’ll take the Full Norman version.When GSTL was released a few people complained about the reverb, I was just referencing those posts. Overall, I think the release was pretty well received..... My refusal to compare DaP27 to 5-8-77 is because 1983 is not 1977. They can’t be compared, as described extensively in posts below. During past 80’s releases as people complained about the quality other people posted theories along the lines of: There are probably a limited number of releasable non-multitrack 80’s recordings. Eventually all the releasable 60/70’s shows will be released, and then that well will dry up. By that point a lot of the people who saw shows in the 60/70’s might be deceased or in ill health and won’t be making purchases. But, people who saw shows in the 80/90’s will still be making purchases and will keep buying the 80/90’s releases. Thus, the revenue stream continues, as long as some good stuff is held back now and released later. That’s my summary of what I remember people posting in the past. Doesn’t mean that it’s the policy of Dave/Rhino. And, keep in mind that there should be DAT masters of 90’s shows. Hopefully there’s some with good mixes on them. We are due for a Bruce release.....

My copy has finally made it across the pond and I have now listened to it in its entirety, not without some trepidation bearing in mind some of the comments posted here. My personal observations, for what they're worth: Those 80's afficionados who claim this is a great show are exaggerating and those who claim that the mix or the sound quality or the performance itself are appalling are also exaggerating. The performance is mostly fine. I did not notice much that some songs were played at breakneck speed and I did not notice too many momentary disasters along the way. I did notice that Jerry's voice was shot on a couple of songs, notably Black Peter. Also the patch in Eyes brings one down to earth with a jarring thump. As for the sound quality, it is pretty good for a cassette master, certainly better than some of the earlier releases that were recorded on cassette. No real complaints there. The Mix? It was mixed for the PA in the hall, not for my living room so it is not ideal, but it is eminently listenable. The vocals are a bit too prominent but not as much as some on here have suggested. For the rest, the balance of the instruments was not perfect, but not so bad that people were missing entirely. The were a couple of places where the music got really intense and the mix made it sound somewhat confused. Again this was not as bad as many had stated. The overall sound level did vary somewhat but not so much that I had to adjust the level on my pre-amp. I was listening to this on my good quality stereo in my living room (which lacks any form of tone controls or equalization). I just insert the CD and hit play. My only point of reference is "Is what I'm hearing acceptable". One cannot expect true high fidelity from these releases. In this case, I found it perfectly acceptable. There have been better performances and better sounding releases, but there have also been worse. We were spared the Fisher-Price piano sounds from Brent, and his cringe-inducing songs. I am also not a fan of his vocals which also did not intrude here. Before I get called out as a Brent hater, I should say that I found his keyboard sound here just fine and I have always enjoyed his B3 playing (as long as it is not overbearing). This will not be sold instantly orgo on a shelf never to be listened to again. Pretty good for an early - mid '80s performance.

....that these releases are coming out regularly. If they weren't, what would we all have to debate about?

Right on my brother, agree with all you said. And of course people can believe what they want for good or for ill. It’s just been frustrating when other folks make these grand statements and comparisons (like 5/8/77 is a 5 outta 10), or when they have no point of reference. e.g., I think Vguy or kid said something like Cornell compared to other Beatty’s “has to much reverb for my taste” To me that’s a great example of a critique based on proper point of reference as well as his personal taste etc But your also right to suggest that apples to oranges can be compared also. A release is a release and therefore fair game....my caveat is that hopefully the critic has at least an idea of what their comparing when speaking of technical matters. Just like a experienced musician would be expected to have a better point of reference when critiquing performance..... But then the bottom line perhaps is Vguy’s example. He just pops it in and likes it or not, well, Vguy perhaps not a good example as that brother seems to dig it all. ; ) Personally, I go both ways (pun intended! for vguys comedic entertainment) I like pretty much every release, but I can certainly critique or find idiosyncrasies in any release, even good ol Cornell! But for me, I’ll take most any official release. Like someone here said, if all your looking for is the warts, well that’s all your going to see..... Finally, like you said, this isn’t aimed at you, hopefully some of us can provide interesting insight for others not as fanatical as us lol Thanks for your great posts! PS; didn’t get on the Dave train until a couple years ago, so I’d gladly take any releases from you, for a reasonable price, were you so inclined to part with any.....please PM me if your interested, looking for ....in order of preference... DAVES PICKS - #9 5/14/74 - #6 12/20/69 with bonus disc - #19 1/23/70 - #5 11/73 - #10 12/11&12/69 with bonus disc - #2 7/31/74 - #17 7/19/74

So I listened again to this release and 5/8/77, and I stand by opinion that the audio is better on this release; the SBR recording places you front row center, and the volume is just exactly perfect. The aud patches are also cool, because it gives you the impression of being at the show. The 5/8/77 audio is cavernous, It places you last row upper deck, and the audio is low, you have to turn the volume up loud to hear the band.I prefer the sound of this release to the 5/8/77 mix. Performance wise - I prefer the versions of TLEO, Mama Tried, Big River, Brown Eyed Women, New Minglewood Blues and Deal on this release over 5/8/77. This is a fantastic release and I welcome more like this. And as the wise sage Master Shake once said: https://i.imgflip.com/sgkf3.jpg