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"The Grateful Dead picked up their instruments and hit the first note with perfection. They never missed a note for the next three and one-half hours. People followed the flow of the tunes. Down on the floor in front of the stage was a sea of heads keeping time with the music. No one sat still. No one, except the youngsters behind us sat still. They were still and stunned." - The Power County Press
And what a stunner it was, that show at the Boise State University Pavilion in Boise, ID on September 2, 1983. Dave's Picks Volume 27 contains every stitch of music from this mid-80s show (our first in this series), one that's as good as any other in Grateful Dead history. When the Dead were on, they were ON! Straight out the gate with a definitive take on the old standard "Wang Dang Doodle," the band swiftly switches back to a setlist of yore, firing off 70s staples like "Jack Straw" and "Brown-Eyed Women" and wrapping things up with a terrific trio of "Big Railroad Blues"/"Looks Like Rain"/"Deal" (don't you let that epic guitar solo go down without you). Primed for the second set, they tackle the complexities of "Help>Slipknot!>Franklin's" with heart and ease. It's clear there will be no stopping their flow - Bobby and Brent hanging in for a fantastic pre-Drums "Jam" and Jerry and Bobby in the zone on a not-to-be-missed melodic "Space." Not a skipper in the whole lot!
Dave's Picks Volume 27 has been mastered to HDCD specs by Jeffrey Norman and it is limited to 18,000 individually-numbered copies*.
*Limited to 2 per order. Very limited quantity available.
Dave's 27 Available
I wonder how many hardcore 80s Dead fans missed out on this, and would love to have one?
I've played my copy once and found no skips or defects. I'd be happy to trade it for an original mint copy of Dave's Picks Vol. 10, 11, 12 or 13.
Please PM me if interested.
Hey hey, hey, oh, by the way, come and (party every day)….
Main system is Onkyo digital receiver, Polk towers up front w/ bookshelves on the side, 4.0. With any hefty volume, sounds like Bobby is singing in my living room while the rest of the band is playing out on the front porch. Second set is smoothed out a bit more though.
For head phones, my cans are Sony MDR7506 (plug in analog). Sound is great. Nicely leveled, crisp, just what any discerning deadhead would want in a listen.
Regarding my opinion of the show, it is a fun filled, choppy frolic that’s also of the GD ethos. Albeit more Bozo than Dilbert. Captures a time period when it was about barefootin’ it with a pair of Vaurnets and playing Frisbee in the park (rather than getting carpal tunnel from a smartphone). Back when it was okay to laugh and chuckle without much reason to do so. Sounds like there was as much of a party up on stage as out in the crowd. Playing is naturally loose, Bill and Mickey being the exception though. From a first listen last night, they sounded really tight and clean, kept it synchronized.
Some Thoughts.
Frequent reader, infrequent poster. There is always a bit of conflict on here regarding various aspects of these releases but there are a few things that I'm not sure got mentioned or that I haven't seen mentioned. I cannot say I've read every single post in this ever-growing thread but I'm just attempting to get a few things thrown out there.
FACTS:
1) The Grateful Dead never intended to record all of these shows for later official release. They were merely for their own listening purposes after the shows. Obviously there are exceptions to this and we all know what shows/era those are.
2) in this era, the band no longer had a member of the crew designated as a "recording engineer" tasked with making a live mix at the show solely for the recording. They simply ran a cassette (lower quality than the reels from earlier eras) right out of the PA that was being mixed for good sound in the hall/theater/arena. That does not necessarily translate to good sound for a live recording and there's certainly limitations to what Jeffrey has to work with. Apples and oranges.
3) Those of us that are "all eras" fans are fortunate to even have some of these recordings to reflect on and we are ALL fortunate that we have the even better recordings of the eras that many of us consider the best.
4) Jerry was not in the best of shape in 1983. Sad, but true.
5) Cocaine increases tempos.
6) Dave's subscriptions are "blind" buys. You don't know what all four shows will be when you decide to pre-pay. This involves a risk. Assuming each of the four shows should be completely satisfying to YOU and be YOUR preferred releases is both unrealistic and borderline narcissistic if you really believe that.
7) If you don't like the show, the 80's, the artwork or anything else about a selection you can sell it, give it away or shelf it if you insist on collecting the series.
8) The next pick will NOT be a mid-80's show (I feel comfortable keeping this in the fact column).
9) Three out of twenty-seven picks (and over six years) being 1980's releases are not quite panic-worthy statistics for worried subscribers.
OPINIONS:
1) This show is fun! Not perfect. Not a TOP 5 or 10. It's fun and energetic and represents an era rarely represented in our favorite band's history. Early to Mid-80's fans, enjoy!
2) It doesn't sound as bad as many would have you believe. It's inconsistent in places. It's cringe-worthy in others. Trying to compare this to the 5/8/77 release or to some other 70's Betty Board is simply not fair (see FACT #2). You somewhat know what you're going to get with a cassette master 80's release sound-wise. At that point, you start to consider the playing, the energy, the setlist and again, thinking about how fortunate we are to even have this catalogued history to look back on all these years later.
3) I love Brent. The amount of heart and soul that came through that man's voice and playing of the keys is simply amazing to me and I will never understand the Brent hate (this is the opinion list, I can say that) but I respect your right to disagree.
4) I don't love all of these releases but if you just realize that not all full-show releases are all good all the time, you learn to look for interesting pieces you do like and can listen to again.
Now, we look forward to #28!
My 2 cents, maybe a little more...
I like it. I'm easy, I like all years, and agree with the thought expressed recently that that's what makes them so listenable, they change over the years.
I liked LLRain, Deal, the Eyes Jam, Black Peter and that sweet Baby blue.
I did not appreciate how fast they were playing so many of the songs. Whew! I got tired just listening to that pace. The other thing I found issue with was it seemed like the whole level of sound would change from time to time, even in the second set, so I could not just leave my amp at a certain level, I had to get up and adjust it from time to time.
I'd also say, having attended many shows over the years, the Dead were a gamble every time you went to see them. Frequently it would take them a while to warm up, they would be a little rough. That was part of their charm, they were not a "show". Why did I keep going? Because they could slowly build to some real magic moments, that would stun me. I found myself seeking and collecting those magic moments.
One other thing: I like the brief patches, because they briefly give me a feeling of what the sound was like in the room which can be very educational. I'd rather have a patch than a cut.
I've listened to most of the release twice, and before I put it on the shelf for a while, I'm going to listen to that LLR, Eyes Jam,and Baby Blue again.
I like the idea of a 79 release, too.
Phish and a lot more
I like Phish, but I love the Dead. I just saw Phish again at the Bill Graham Civic. Great show. Also really loved the Sweetheart of the Rodeo Byrds half reunion at the Mountain Winery last Sunday.
Recent spins:
Bonnie Raitt Nick of Time
Fleetwood Mac Rumours
Kinks Muswell Hillbillies
Traffic John Barleycorn, Low Spark, Shoot out at Fantasy Factory
The Animals Animal Tracks
Buena Vista Social Club
And, of course lots of Dead
Gear, next picks
IMHO, I think 27 sounds better than a old cassette, Good for an 83 house mix, and of course ridiculously incomparable to a recorded for release multi-track......I’m listening via
- YFS Ref 3 server
- Wyred for Sound DAC II
- C 40 pre-amp
- 2 MC 601 mono blocks
- XR 200 speakers
- Furman Power
NEXT DAVES.....
28- 1970?
——————————-
29- 1976 ( mellow groove for winter. Early or fall?)
30- 1/10/79 with 1/20/79 as rest/bonus etc 79 is due!
31- 1971 April or fall?
32- fall 89
31/32 wild cards; 73 or 74....
Parts of shows
Holy S#$&& sorry to bogart here, but as some have posted lately about some picks great for when no time/notion for full show. So with that in mind I fired up 12/473, just right for before Saturday pizza/movie, and holy shnikies Batman, haven’t heard this in a while. Cheese and rice that eyes and space jam out is, well, you know ; )Aaaaaa, yeaaah, that’s why late 73 is probably my fav, if I had one! Buenos Nachos Roqueros!
Re: OKCDH
This: “Assuming each of the four shows should be completely satisfying to YOU and be YOUR preferred releases is both unrealistic and borderline narcissistic if you really believe that.” I’m with you on your opinions, there, too. Fellow all eras fan, here.
11/20/73 and what they said..
Fuca#$**$ 11/20/73, another lil bite sized morsel of love before (more) beer, then pizza! Last beers; In no order....Surely Coffee Bender, Stone Arrogant Bastard, Anchor Brewers Pale Ale, North Coast Old Rasputin, Surly Furios IPA, Anchor Liberty, Crazy Mnt. Snow Cat Coffee Stout, EKU 28, Bonfire Brewing WtFO, and finally on a hot day outta the ice chest, Sierra Nevada Tropical Torpedo.......as Homer would say.....”ummmmmmmmmm, beeeeeerrrrrr!”
One mo sataday night my brothers and sisters, peace!
ANYONE know who first said “beer and pizza is God’s way of telling us she loves us”?
No multitracks in Dave's or Dick's Series
These are all 2 track recordings, only DaP 8 is anything else, with a 2 track SBD cassette master supplemented by an Audience recording matrixed together. A 2 track PA mix on cassette is just as much a 2 track recording as Betty's Boards and Healy's 2 track cassette, VHS or Betamax, or DAT recordings.
Nobody is comparing DaP 27 to a multitrack recording, so I'm not sure why it keeps popping up as a talking point that "of course this doesn't sound as good as a multitrack." Can we just burn that strawman?
TM
Keep the Faith. 3 of my favourite 'GD' shows were P&F 4/15-17/99; the ultimate meld of Hunter, Dead, and the mighty Ph; they stand with giants. Incidentally, I look forward to meeting some of you soon on the road from Hampton to Nashville to Rosemont to Vegas. I've already conducted a trial pack-in of the Outlook 2+ months in advance. Good-to-go. Woot!/K
Edit: box set of the year, decade, century, in 6 days: Szell Complete Columbia+
RE: Alvarhanso
Sorry, not trying to beat a dead horse. Technically, your right, all the Dave’s/Dicks as you say are two track....(hell even the 89/90s stuff ends up as two track, Right/Left)......this goes back to like a week ago when people were comparing 80s House PA mixes to recordings that were made from a separate multi-channel feed that was then mixed down by a dedicated crew member to two track, with the intent for a balanced sounding mix to listen to later.
I posted about point of reference and this intent then to be helpful since it seemed like some folks don’t understand how drastically different the mixes used are because of the intent of the MIX being utilized; multiple channels being mixed down by a dedicated crew member, versus Healy just poping in a cassette to use to critique PA mixes as they apply to different venues etc. The intent of these mixes is very different, so different that to compare the two is apples to oranges.
Point of reference is another way to consider this. In audio, A point of reference is often used to compare.
So when icecrmcnkd asked folks who really disliked versus those who really liked the sound of 27, what they were listening on, which could very well influence a persons opinion, I was just trying to reiterate this point, which I believe you also made a day or so ago.
For example, If your point of reference for a good sounding show is a 70s separate multi-channel feed mixed down to two track by a dedicated mixer, then it’s easy to see how a House PA mix, mixed with a completely different intent, on totally different recording equipment, will sound inferior.
Since you yourself as of 8/2/18 was debating with Dilbert I believe, about the rating of DaP 27 to 5/8/77, (i.e., “X” out of 10) to me that’s comparing apples to oranges. I believe somewhere you yourself also said something to this effect?
So when I was trying to answer brother icecrmcnkd, I was only trying to state my humble opinion by comparing this recording to the different points of reference. But I was technically off by saying multi-track as you correctly pointed out.
What I should of said was
- Better than an old school show cassette.
- good for an 83 PA house mix
- but not comparable to a recording made with a separate multi-channel feed, mixed down to two track, for a completely different purpose or intent.
The reason I’m rehashing all this is, like you, to try and enlighten those who don’t perhaps understand how completely different these sources are, so they can use the proper point of reference when critiquing recordings. Not apples to oranges! One can certainly have a overly positive or negative opinion about the sound of this release. I’m just suggesting that folks use the proper point of reference when doing so.
Sorry, I know you get it, and I get it, but after weeks of this it still seems like some folks are continuing to do this.......
Again, I’m only trying to help, not be difficult. “Pleeeeeeaaaaase don’t murder me...no, no no!....)
Edit: perhaps this is better?
MULTI-track has multiple channels, say one for each instrument and vocal. Every track is recorded live separately on to multi-track tape, these are called basic tracks. Since each instrument has its own track, its level can be raised/lowered, processed, or even redone or overdubbed if need be (like they did on E72 for example.) This done later, at a different studio, often by a different engineer, where all these tracks are mixed/balanced so that everything is “just exactly perfect” down to a two track stereo mix. Then it’s sent off for mastering for commercial release.
BETTY Boards etc were usually multiple channels mixed via a separate/different feed than the front of house PA mix, by a dedicated crew member, say Betty, live on the fly, down to two track for the purpose of best possible later listening. So if say Phil is too loud in the mix, she can attenuate his level so that it is balanced well with the rest....
STEREO PA HOUSE MIX; this is usually just a direct output of the House PA mix, your old school “sound board” cassettes. Though there usually are different aux mixes on boards, so that the different levels can be somewhat balanced for the tape mix. Often though the Mixer is too busy working on making the sound good for the venue, the live mix if you will, not the recording. This is often affected via sub mixes or a combination of say all vocals controlled by one master volume of the combined vocals. This is used to easily boast the vocals (or the say the drums) relative to the instruments on the fly live.
So depending on the characteristics of the hall, who’s playing loud or not, the mixer can use these tools to quickly mix/balance the sound to sound good in the hall. Unfortunately, as many of you notice, this can negatively effect the tape out mix. Sometimes Healy would/could mess with this more than other times. Even then though, he was probably briefly using headphones to monitor this tape mix, which adds another kind of variable that may color this stereo tape out to cassette mix.
Also, the musicians effect the levels of the mix when they adjust their own volumes up and down, like say JG turning up for a solo. Since there is no way to go back and balance all these different channels once their down to two channel, you often have parts of recordings that don’t sound balanced. That’s is why some of you notice that sometimes Weir for instance is loud, and sometimes too quiet. The main thing to understand is the purpose of the PA mix is not intended for a later commercial release, or to sound like a studio recording.
But Dan was perhaps one of the greatest, if not the greatest sound reinforcement tech ever, so even with these variables, there are many great sounding SB mixes/tapes as many of you know. But I think we all can agree that they can’t realky be compared to a full on multi-track commercial releaseiI.e., 90s Box, Live Dead, Europe 72, Skull Fuck etc. imho it’s the same with trying to compare a maticulous Betty type recording with a SB cassette. That does not mean that a PA stereo cassette can’t be good, just completely different, different point of reference....
Another variable that pertains to 83, is that they started to use (full time) the mighty new Ultra Sound PA utilizing John Meyers technology. In my opinion this was the best sounding system ever (no I did not have the pleasure of hearing the WOS live) but most of the people involved state that the ultra sound blew the wall away mostly due to technological advancements not possible in 1974.
So in 83 they were trying to dial in not only the new PA, but the band had a lot of new gear, Phil’s Modulas Quantum bass and they had rearranged their positioning on stage. This all effects the overall sound, that in turn effects the recordings.....
BASIC STEREO; live two track (Right/Left), like when folks used mics to record live to a cassette deck. Sometimes these units would have separate volume control for each channel, or perhaps a balance control, often not. Basically you’d have no control except to try and get the levels correct, and there were so many idiosyncratic variables to contend with it’s a kind of amazing we have as many great recordings as we do.
Hopefully you can better understand how completely different these mixes are, and how they drastically effect the subsequent recordings. Thus, the apples to oranges analogy.
Sorry, hopefully not too boring, we audio geeks forget not everyone is into this stuff like we are ; - )
Breaking down source material.....
....me? I just put it in my CD player and hit play. Nice to see you Kate. Are you heading to Vegas for the Halloween Phish shows?
Re: No multitracks in Dave's or Dick's Series
I thought that Dick's Picks 15 (September 3, 1977, Englishtown NJ) was mixed down from the multi-tracks because the one or more of the 2-track reels were damaged or a reel or more was missing, or some other explanation.
Dave's Picks 27
This show sounds like the band was having a grand old fun time this night. They were ON! This recording sounds like the almost perfect original master cassette. OK it has it's minor imperfect mix, in my own humble opinion.
Thank you Dave & company for selecting this show.
I LOVE IT!
Dave's Picks 28: I really can't guess on the exact show, but my wish/hope would be for restored 9/20/70 Fillmore East, NYC, both the acoustic and electric GD sets.
Shaggs and beer (or is it beer, then Shaggs?)
I have heard the Shaggs'...compositions before. Truly awful stuff.
Ben Franklin is the "beer" stater, according to what I have heard on that.
Alcohol and I do not get along, so it doesn't make _me_ happy, but obviously it is a popular beverage.
WOW
The complaining and nitpicking is crazy. Social media has invaded the Grateful Dead. But that is what social media has made itself or people have made social media into. Complaining and animal videos.
No complaints here , the boys were on this night, just good old rock and rolland some nice jamming. See slipknot, deal , BRB and a nice version of Looks Like rain.
Enjoy the summer , as a wise band once said. Its come and gone my oh my
The Dyer's Tale, Part 4
The (un?)Official Tie Dying Wizard of the Grateful Dead, Courtenay Pollock's saga continues:https://mailchi.mp/72a4480de0ab/episode-4-the-long-strange-golden-road?…
Re: Oroborous
When somebody says that Cornell is a 5/10 and DaP 27 is an 8.5/10, that will arouse a response from me criticizng that as hyperbole or trolling. That's not me debating the point it's me attempting to slap down a foolish or trollish assertion. And I responded to your point on multitracks because it was the most recent assertion of a canard that these releases are under a different standard. I have very carefully avoided debating the merits of sound and performance quality on this since making my initial points on here that I didn't like the mix. I just get tired of bad arguments. I get subjectivity, but no person who has heard both this and the Cornell release would honestly (key word) argue that DaP 27 sounds better. (And again, just sound quality, not a point about performance, which some people may just hate Cornell being contrarian or iconoclastic, but the sound of that tape versus this one is not debatable unless one participant in the debate is just screwing with you.)
Healy was the sound mixer and recordist, he was actively mixing what went into the PA mix from as many channels as his board had, so what went into the tape was still being mixed in real time. Was he making the mix specifically for the tape? No, he was making it for the house, and it was his additions to the vocals on Mama Tried and Big River that I complained about initially, and part of what got him fired years later. (Screwing with Sting's house levels contributed as well.) It is still a multichannel feed mixed down to left and right, though. I think that quote of Bear's about Healy not being able to mix a cake from Betty Crocker may be harsh, but he wouldn't be the first soundman to believe his ears over anybody else's (Bear is just as guilty, though we can probably agree that Bear's ears are more trustworthy).
I'm just trying to say, like you did, that expectations should be different for a cassette PA mix, but that shouldn't mean we're not allowed to criticize how it sounds compared to other releases, nor should we be prevented from criticizing the performance. There's not an apple to apple reference point in this series, as you say, but using Dick's as well, you can compare. This is not the worst sounding tape I've heard, but it ain't great. If other people want to love it, as I said I'm happy for them. But it is hard to read the hyperbolic statements on how good the sound is without the caveat "for a cassette PA mix", and Dilbert's comparison to Cornell was just gaslighting. The real subjectivity is on the performance itself, I think any argument on sound quality should be argued within that caveat, because it is objectively worse than almost every release in this series. I hope that every release is a worthy one, no matter the era. I fully recognize quality will lessen as box sets and other Dave's come out; diminishing returns will happen. Do we need to be placed in an Orwellian debate where we're told what we can hear is actually not as bad as our ears tell us, or can we be honest and say, "for a cassette PA mix, it's pretty good"? That's probably too much to ask given the way this larger discussion has gotten into personal insults in some cases. I just want it to be honest. I accept you saying you misspoke about multitracks, this long diatribe is mainly for anyone still thinking that that's what we, the detractors, are debating.
Last night I was putting most of the DaP series on a USB for my car, which is a long overdue exercise as I only had from 17 on in mp3 on the flash drive. And I converted quite a lot of them, and reflected on how I don't listen to many of them that often, like DaP 9 I have largely avoided the past couple years because of a bad listening exercise of that Dark Star, even though the very idea of Weather Report Suite> Dark Star was why I was initially thrilled to get that show, I just pick something else to listen to. I did put it on the USB drive, so I may just give it another shot this coming week or so, but I use that to illustrate that even WoS show where the instruments are presented in clarity and definition doesn't automatically mean it goes into the queue. That, I think, speaks to the subjectivity part of things.
I know this is overly long, and I'm not writing it to bash you or anything like that, just trying to explain my motivations and where I'm coming from. I'm trying to avoid the performance debate on this one because so many are happy with it, and it comes off as trolling to keep rehashing my own criticisms of the show; it's a decent show overall, just not one I would've picked for 27. But it's (obviously) much harder to keep my fingers quiet when the sound quality is hyperbolically charged as better than the Cornell sound quality. :)
Thoughts on DP 27 and a question
As an 80's head, I often bemoan the lack of 80's releases. However, having said that, I have not been a fan of Dave's choices (RFK '89 were like the worst shows of the summer tour, for instance) and this release, while certainly fun in parts, is not one I would have selected.
If you are going to go 80's, there are three places to look:
a) Late 80's: '89, '87, and '88. (zero Dave Picks)
b) Early 80's: '80 acoustic shows (0 Dave's), '80, '81, '82 = 2.
c) 1985 (no Dave's Picks)
Sometimes he seems more obsessed with picking shows from every state than the best shows.
Still, I did enjoy the show, but thought it was not on par with Dick's Picks #6 (our only other individual '83 release).
I also enjoy having a wide representation of all the years. On that note, 1970 seems woefully underrepresented to me.
Still, all of 3/27 form the 80's on is a little light for me. An hardly cause for panic from 70's fans.
The full accounting for Dave's Picks vs. Dicks by era:
Dick's(36) 60's(3)/70's (26, 1 Brent )/80's(4)/90's(3, 0 Brent)
Dave's(27) 60's (1.5), 70's (22.5), 80's (3), 90's (none)
Overall, an appalling LACK of diversity from Dave in my view. The Thelma/69/70 was great, as was the other '69. But his 80's choices could have been better.
For me, I'd like, per year:
1) at least 1 Pig show
2) one show from '79 on (usually Brent, but Bruce/Vince OK)
3) one early Keith show ('71-'74)
4) one late 70's K&D show ('76-'78)
Of course, I have not been getting it, but that would be my structure. And I do not blow a gasket when I do not get it. I don't expect to.
-----------------------------------
Question: is there somewhere that is releasing Road Trips (with Bonus discs) for cheap? I have a couple that I do not have, so I watch ebay now & then, and the prices are outrageous. But for some of the early Volume 1's, the prices are suddenly reasonable with the bonus disc included. I know Real Gone releases them (starting with Volume 4) but does not include the bonus discs.
I cannot figure out why prices have dropped so suddenly on these? What gives? Does anyone know?
Jason
One thing I will say about your comparison is that you are correct there are many more 60s and 70s Dave's Picks in the series, plain for all to see. Not so long ago however, I believe it was thin who did a complete tally of total releases from each decade, and it came out pretty even between all of the official releases and all of the box sets and all of the series. The number of shows for each decade was roughly the same. We may need to revisit the math on that, since some time has passed, and we must consider each complete show as one tally mark for a decade, as well as each complete release for a given time period as being one tally mark for the decade ( in other words, the Road Trips October 77 release counts as one tally mark (one show) from the era it falls in. I think it's been found that it's all around even, or at least that any discrepancies are statistically marginal. So I would argue that no, there is not an appalling lack of diversity with overall total Vault releases When comparing the 70s and 80s. You can do the math yourself, just go through the discography on Wikipedia and start tallying them off.
You should be happy with these numbers, actually. There is an even balance despite the difference in audio quality between the two eras. And also with regard to the Dave's Picks series, it almost has to be weighed heavily towards the 60s and 70s due to the quality of tapes available and some other factors, such as overall sellability of 70s vs 80s. You can't really go with Space Brothers logic that 80s sells just as good as 70s because the five extra Dave's Picks 27 sold out as quickly as the five extra Dave's Picks 26s. That's propaganda advertising. The first 17995 went to everyone with a subscription, and there is no way of knowing what was in people's heads as far as Eras are concerned when they ordered their subscription, but trust me, as a professional record store owner, the 70s picks go way faster and at much higher cost then the 80s. Fact.
So I listened again to this
So I listened again to this release and 5/8/77, and I stand by opinion that the audio is better on this release; the SBR recording places you front row center, and the volume is just exactly perfect. The aud patches are also cool, because it gives you the impression of being at the show. The 5/8/77 audio is cavernous, It places you last row upper deck, and the audio is low, you have to turn the volume up loud to hear the band.I prefer the sound of this release to the 5/8/77 mix.
Performance wise - I prefer the versions of TLEO, Mama Tried, Big River, Brown Eyed Women, New Minglewood Blues and Deal on this release over 5/8/77.
This is a fantastic release and I welcome more like this.
And as the wise sage Master Shake once said:
https://i.imgflip.com/sgkf3.jpg
RE: Alvarhanso
Right on my brother, agree with all you said. And of course people can believe what they want for good or for ill. It’s just been frustrating when other folks make these grand statements and comparisons (like 5/8/77 is a 5 outta 10), or when they have no point of reference. e.g., I think Vguy or kid said something like Cornell compared to other Beatty’s “has to much reverb for my taste” To me that’s a great example of a critique based on proper point of reference as well as his personal taste etc
But your also right to suggest that apples to oranges can be compared also. A release is a release and therefore fair game....my caveat is that hopefully the critic has at least an idea of what their comparing when speaking of technical matters.
Just like a experienced musician would be expected to have a better point of reference when critiquing performance.....
But then the bottom line perhaps is Vguy’s example. He just pops it in and likes it or not, well, Vguy perhaps not a good example as that brother seems to dig it all. ; )
Personally, I go both ways (pun intended! for vguys comedic entertainment) I like pretty much every release, but I can certainly critique or find idiosyncrasies in any release, even good ol Cornell!
But for me, I’ll take most any official release.
Like someone here said, if all your looking for is the warts, well that’s all your going to see.....
Finally, like you said, this isn’t aimed at you, hopefully some of us can provide interesting insight for others not as fanatical as us lol
Thanks for your great posts!
PS; didn’t get on the Dave train until a couple years ago, so I’d gladly take any releases from you, for a reasonable price, were you so inclined to part with any.....please PM me if your interested, looking for
....in order of preference...
DAVES PICKS
- #9 5/14/74
- #6 12/20/69 with bonus disc
- #19 1/23/70
- #5 11/73
- #10 12/11&12/69 with bonus disc
- #2 7/31/74
- #17 7/19/74
I'm just grateful.....
....that these releases are coming out regularly. If they weren't, what would we all have to debate about?
Got it, heard it...
My copy has finally made it across the pond and I have now listened to it in its entirety, not without some trepidation bearing in mind some of the comments posted here. My personal observations, for what they're worth: Those 80's afficionados who claim this is a great show are exaggerating and those who claim that the mix or the sound quality or the performance itself are appalling are also exaggerating. The performance is mostly fine. I did not notice much that some songs were played at breakneck speed and I did not notice too many momentary disasters along the way. I did notice that Jerry's voice was shot on a couple of songs, notably Black Peter. Also the patch in Eyes brings one down to earth with a jarring thump. As for the sound quality, it is pretty good for a cassette master, certainly better than some of the earlier releases that were recorded on cassette. No real complaints there. The Mix? It was mixed for the PA in the hall, not for my living room so it is not ideal, but it is eminently listenable. The vocals are a bit too prominent but not as much as some on here have suggested. For the rest, the balance of the instruments was not perfect, but not so bad that people were missing entirely. The were a couple of places where the music got really intense and the mix made it sound somewhat confused. Again this was not as bad as many had stated. The overall sound level did vary somewhat but not so much that I had to adjust the level on my pre-amp. I was listening to this on my good quality stereo in my living room (which lacks any form of tone controls or equalization). I just insert the CD and hit play. My only point of reference is "Is what I'm hearing acceptable". One cannot expect true high fidelity from these releases. In this case, I found it perfectly acceptable. There have been better performances and better sounding releases, but there have also been worse. We were spared the Fisher-Price piano sounds from Brent, and his cringe-inducing songs. I am also not a fan of his vocals which also did not intrude here. Before I get called out as a Brent hater, I should say that I found his keyboard sound here just fine and I have always enjoyed his B3 playing (as long as it is not overbearing). This will not be sold instantly orgo on a shelf never to be listened to again. Pretty good for an early - mid '80s performance.
For the record
I think that 5-8-77 sounds awesome. That reverb was on the first cassette I got of the show. Thus, it’s all I know. I also have the matrix and the 5.1 version. I’ll take the Full Norman version.When GSTL was released a few people complained about the reverb, I was just referencing those posts. Overall, I think the release was pretty well received.....
My refusal to compare DaP27 to 5-8-77 is because 1983 is not 1977. They can’t be compared, as described extensively in posts below.
During past 80’s releases as people complained about the quality other people posted theories along the lines of:
There are probably a limited number of releasable non-multitrack 80’s recordings. Eventually all the releasable 60/70’s shows will be released, and then that well will dry up. By that point a lot of the people who saw shows in the 60/70’s might be deceased or in ill health and won’t be making purchases. But, people who saw shows in the 80/90’s will still be making purchases and will keep buying the 80/90’s releases. Thus, the revenue stream continues, as long as some good stuff is held back now and released later.
That’s my summary of what I remember people posting in the past. Doesn’t mean that it’s the policy of Dave/Rhino.
And, keep in mind that there should be DAT masters of 90’s shows. Hopefully there’s some with good mixes on them.
We are due for a Bruce release.....
Breaking down Boise....
....simonrob didn't pull the ripcord. Took the Switzerland route. I would very much like to meet you. Down some Belgian ales, spin some Dead, smoke some lettuce and enjoy the English garden rain.
Well, that settles it
Simonrob, Daverock, and the rest of us are catching flights to Vegas......
I love Amsterdam, but I think Vegas flights are cheaper.....and I speak the language......sort of.
Yeah, just comparing Dave's vs. Dicks
There have been a lot of '80's Dead/Brent releases with the Spring '90, Warlocks, '90 TOO, RFK, View From the Vault, etc.
In terms of actual releases/shows, the totals (including partials, etc) look like this, and I may be missing some of the partials/splits/multi-year stuff (Garcia Plays Dylan, etc).
Generally speaking, there has been a very good job of releasing more from the peak years (IMHO = 70's, '69, '89-'90) while getting something from every year (30 Trips Helped).
Did not break down by #shows, includes digital downloads, not included Pacific NW yet.
Rank, Year, # Releases, # Discs
1. 1972, 16, 119.25 (peak Dead, justifiably #1, K&D & Pig) A+
2. 1977, 15, 72.50 (peak late era K&D) A+
3. 1990, 10.5, 64.50 (peak Brent era) A
4. 1973, 11, 41.0 (PC NW coming) (peak early Keith) A+
5. 1978, 10, 41.0 (darn good late era K&D) A-
6. 1974, 13, 40 (PC NW coming) (darn good early Keith) A-
7. 1971, 13, 36.12 (darn good year, multiple lineups) A
8. 1969, 9.5, 31.90 (Peak Pig & TC) A+
9. 1976, 8, 28.0 (improved Donna) A-
10. 1989, 8.5, 27.50 (darn good Brent era) A-
-----------------------
11. 1970, 9.5, 20.83 (the new tunes explode) A
------I would consider this the line for "A" years------
12. 1980, 8.15, 19.0 B+
13. 1979, 7, 19.0 B+
------------------------
14. 1991, 4, 11.50
15. 1968, 6, 11.30
T16. 1981, 3, 9.0
T16. 1983, 3, 9.0 (This is a C year)
T16. 1988, 3, 9.0
19. 1987, 4, 8.5
20. 1982, 3, 8.0
21. 1966, 4.57, 7.50
22. 1985, 3, 7.0
-----mostly C years from here---------
T23. 1992, 2, 6.0
T23. 1993, 2, 6.0
25. 1975, 2.5, 4.5 (B year, just no shows)
26. 1967, 1.5, 3.1 (B year, so few tapes)
T27. 1984, 1, 3.0
T27. 1994, 1, 3.0
T27. 1995, 1, 3.0
30. 1986, 1, 2.0
31. 1965, 1, 0 (studio stuff/Birth) (no tapes available).
Again, remarkably good distribution overall. Not so much with the Dave's Picks. Agree that 70's is better in a lot of respects (though not as much variance and fewer different songs) and certainly the sound quality is one factor (nothing matches a Betty).
However, I have too many sweet sounding 80's boards to buy the idea that there are not many good sounding tapes in the vault to release them. As good as Betty's? No. Still very enjoyable? Yes. For 1967 I buy it, not for 1985 or 1989 or 1980.
But I tend to be a show quality over sound quality guy anyway.
Lastly, I do have a bit of a beef (small one) with Dave's 80's picks. A summer '89 Box that has no Alpine? Come on. No full 80's acoustic shows (yes, I know Dead Set/Reckoning)?
I'll amend my original structure to Dick's Picks parameters. For every series of 6:
1) At least one Pig
2) At least one early Keith ('71-'74)
3) At least one late K&D ('76-'78)
4) At least one Brent/Bruce/Vince
5) At least one Epic/Iconic show (any era)
6) At least one lesser known great show (any era)
Converting to Dave's picks parameters, every 3 years (12 releases), that would generate, thru 24 releases:
1) At least 4 Pigs (he does well here)
2) At least 4 early Keith's (he does well here)
3) At least 4 late K&D's (he does well here)
4) At least 4 Brent/Bruce/Vince (not enough but getting better)
5) At least 4 Epic/Iconic shows (he does fine here)
6) At least 4 undiscovered great shows (he does well here)
Again, these are small nits to pick. A tad more Brent/later era stuff with a tad better selections from that era. Summer '85. Another fall '89 or '89 pre-midi. '87 when the comeback was in full swing and good vibes were everywhere. '80/'81 acoustic. A piercing Althea.
I did not mean to seem too critical, if I came off that way, my apologies. Sorry for length, lazy Sunday.
I guess it's just not for me
I keep hearing all the cool kids saying this release sounds great and features the band in top form (with just a few exceptions, such as Black Peter). I'm just not hearing it. I keep putting it back on, thinking maybe I just didn't adjust the equalizer correctly, but it still sounds awful mostly. I hear moments of good playing, but like the one guy said, every time I start grooving to something, some off kilter element yanks me out of it. I understand where you're all coming from. When we really love a version of the band, we listen to it all with passion and I think probably aren't affected by the negative elements. There can't be so many people wrong about how bad they think it is, and conversely, there can't be so many people wrong about how good they think it is. Just always going to be cheers and jeers, that's just the way it is. Get it. That's just the way it is. Love ya'll.
Edit - Jason, just saw your data here, going to read it in a few, looks interesting,thanks for taking the time.
"You better Roll Away the Dew"
"If you get confused just listen to the music play"
~ 9.2.83 ~
"While the firelight's aglow ~ Strange shadows from the flames will grow ~
'till things we've never seen ~ Will seem familiar ~
~ 12.30.83 ~
Official Releases
Not included are compilation Road Trips and the bonus discs that went with them. A few other bonus discs may be missing.Rockin' the Rhein, Hundred Year Hall, and Steppin' Out are not included.
Most years/eras are well represented except those where high quality recordings are lacking: 65-68, mid-80's.
The 90's are not that well represented. There are gems to be found there, and they probably sound pretty good. But, as I posted below, those will probably be held until later as a tool to keep revenue coming in.
(formatting got altered slightly when I pasted in the text)
GD 1965-66 Birth of the Dead
GD 1966 Rare Cuts Oddities
GD 1966-07-03 30Trips
GD 1966-07-29 Grateful Dead-50th bonus disc
GD 1966-07-30% 7-29-66 bonus disc filler
GD 1967 Grateful Dead
GD 1967-10-22 AOTS-50th bonus disc
GD 1967-11-10 30Trips
GD 1968 Anthem of the Sun
GD 1968 AOTS-50th
GD 1968 AOTS-50th-remix
GD 1968-01 RTv2n2-filler
GD 1968-02-14 RTv2n2
GD 1968-02-23 DP22
GD 1968-02-24 DP22
GD 1968-03-17 DS6
GD 1968-08-24 2FTV
GD 1968-10-20 30Trips
GD 1969 Aoxomoxoa
GD 1969-01-23% DS12-filler
GD 1969-02-11 GDCD4054
GD 1969-02-22 30Trips
GD 1969-02-27 FW69 Box
GD 1969-02-28 FW69 Box
GD 1969-03-01 FW69 Box
GD 1969-03-02 FW69 Box
GD 1969-04-17 DS12
GD 1969-04-26 DP26
GD 1969-04-27 DP26
GD 1969-05-23 RTv4n1
GD 1969-05-24 RTv4n1
GD 1969-11-08 DP16
GD 1969-12-11 DaP2014 bonus disc
GD 1969-12-12 DaP10
GD 1969-12-20 DaP6
GD 1969-12-21 DaP2013 bonus disc
GD 1970 American Beauty
GD 1970 Workingman's Dead
GD 1970-01-18 DS2
GD 1970-01-23% DaP19
GD 1970-01-24% DaP19
GD 1970-02-02 DaP6
GD 1970-02-04 DS8-FDATGH
GD 1970-02-05 filler-Dancing in the Streets
GD 1970-02-13 DP4
GD 1970-02-14 DP4
GD 1970-04-15 30Trips
GD 1970-04-18 FDATGH
GD 1970-05-02 DP8
GD 1970-05-15a RTv3n3
GD 1970-05-15b RTv3n3
GD 1970-12-31% filler, NYE’s bonus disc
GD 1971-02-19 3FTV
GD 1971-03-18 30Trips
GD 1971-04-25% L&G GD
GD 1971-04-27% L&G GD
GD 1971-04-28% L&G GD
GD 1971-04-29% L&G GD
GD 1971-07-31 RTv1n3
GD 1971-08-06% DP35
GD 1971-08-07 DP35
GD 1971-08-23 RTv1n3
GD 1971-08-24 DP35
GD 1971-10-21 DaP3
GD 1971-10-22 DaP3
GD 1971-10-26 DS3
GD 1971-10-31% DP2
GD 1971-11-14% RTv3n2 bonus disc
GD 1971-11-15 RTv3n2
GD 1971-12-06% DaP22 filler,DaP2017 bonus disc
GD 1971-12-07 DaP22
GD 1971-12-31% NYE's bonus disc
GD 1972-03-21% DaP2015 bonus disc
GD 1972-03-25% DP30
GD 1972-03-26 DaP14
GD 1972-03-27% DaP2015 bonus disc
GD 1972-03-28 DP30
GD 1972-04-07 E72
GD 1972-04-08 E72
GD 1972-04-11 E72
GD 1972-04-14 E72
GD 1972-04-16 E72
GD 1972-04-17 E72
GD 1972-04-21 E72
GD 1972-04-24 E72
GD 1972-04-26 E72
GD 1972-04-29 E72
GD 1972-05-03 E72
GD 1972-05-04 E72
GD 1972-05-07 E72
GD 1972-05-10 E72
GD 1972-05-11 E72
GD 1972-05-13 E72
GD 1972-05-16 E72
GD 1972-05-18 E72
GD 1972-05-23 E72
GD 1972-05-24 E72
GD 1972-05-25 E72
GD 1972-05-26 E72
GD 1972-07-21 DS10
GD 1972-07-22% DS10
GD 1972-08-25 DaP24
GD 1972-08-27 SSDD
GD 1972-09-03% DP36 filler
GD 1972-09-17 DP23
GD 1972-09-21 DP36
GD 1972-09-24 30Trips
GD 1972-09-27 DP11
GD 1972-11-15% DaP11 filler
GD 1972-11-17 DaP11
GD 1972-11-18%
GD 1972-12-31% NYE’s bonus disc
GD 1973 Bear's Choice
GD 1973 Wake of the Flood
GD 1973-02-26 DP28
GD 1973-02-28 DP28
GD 1973-03-28 DaP16
GD 1973-04-02 DaP21
GD 1973-10-19 DP19
GD 1973-11-09 Winterland 73 Box
GD 1973-11-10 Winterland 73 Box
GD 1973-11-11 Winterland 73 Box
GD 1973-11-14 30Trips
GD 1973-11-17 DaP5
GD 1973-11-21 RTv4n3
GD 1973-11-30% DP14
GD 1973-12-02 DP14
GD 1973-12-04% Winterland 73 Box bonus disc
GD 1973-12-10 DS8
GD 1973-12-19% DP1
GD 1974 From the Mars Hotel
GD 1974-02-24 DaP13
GD 1974-03-23% DP24
GD 1974-05-14 DaP9
GD 1974-06-16% RTv2n3
GD 1974-06-18% RTv2n3
GD 1974-06-26 Set2 DP12
GD 1974-06-28 Set2 DP12
GD 1974-07-19 DaP17
GD 1974-07-29% DaP2012 bonus disc
GD 1974-07-31 DaP2
GD 1974-08-04% DP31
GD 1974-08-05% DP31
GD 1974-08-06% DP31
GD 1974-09-09% DP7
GD 1974-09-10% DP7
GD 1974-09-18 30Trips
GD 1974-10-16% GD Mov sndtrk
GD 1974-10-17% GD Mov sndtrk
GD 1974-10-18% GD Mov sndtrk
GD 1974-10-19% GD Mov sndtrk
GD 1974-10-20% GD Mov sndtrk
GD 1975 Blues For Allah
GD 1975-08-13 1FTV
GD 1975-09-28 30Trips
GD 1976-06-09 RTv4n5
GD 1976-06-12% RTv4n5-filler
GD 1976-06-18 DS4
GD 1976-06-21% DS4-filler
GD 1976-06-22% DS4-filler
GD 1976-06-28% DS4-filler
GD 1976-07-16% DaP18 filler,DaP2016 bonus disc
GD 1976-07-17 DaP18
GD 1976-09-24 DaP4
GD 1976-09-25 DP20
GD 1976-09-28 DP20
GD 1976-10-03 30Trips
GD 1976-10-09 DP33
GD 1976-10-10 DP33
GD 1976-12-31 Cow Palace
GD 1977 Terrapin Station
GD 1977-04-25 30Trips
GD 1977-04-29% DS1-filler
GD 1977-04-30 DS1
GD 1977-05-05 GSTL
GD 1977-05-07 GSTL
GD 1977-05-08 GSTL
GD 1977-05-09 GSTL
GD 1977-05-11 May77 Box
GD 1977-05-12 May77 Box
GD 1977-05-13 May77 Box
GD 1977-05-15 May77 Box
GD 1977-05-17 May77 Box
GD 1977-05-19 DP29
GD 1977-05-21 DP29
GD 1977-05-22% DP3
GD 1977-05-25 DaP1
GD 1977-05-28 To Terrapin
GD 1977-06-07 Winterland 77 Box
GD 1977-06-08 Winterland 77 Box
GD 1977-06-09 Winterland 77 Box
GD 1977-09-03 DP15
GD 1977-11-02% DP34,DaP12-filler
GD 1977-11-04 DaP12
GD 1977-11-05 DP34
GD 1977-11-06 DaP25
GD 1977-12-29 DP10
GD 1977-12-30% DP10-filler
GD 1977-12-31% NYE's bonus disc
GD 1978 Shakedown Street
GD 1978-01-22 DaP23
GD 1978-02-03% DP18
GD 1978-02-05% DP18
GD 1978-04-22 DaP15
GD 1978-04-24 DaP7
GD 1978-05-10 DP25
GD 1978-05-11 DP25
GD 1978-05-14 30Trips
GD 1978-07-01 July 78 Box
GD 1978-07-03 July 78 Box
GD 1978-07-05 July 78 Box
GD 1978-07-07 July 78 Box
GD 1978-07-08 July 78 Box
GD 1978-09-15,16 Rocking The Cradle
GD 1978-10-21% RTv1n4
GD 1978-10-22% RTv1n4
GD 1978-12-31 Closing of Winterland
GD 1979-10-27 30Trips
GD 1979-11-05 RT-dwnld
GD 1979-11-06 RT-dwnld
GD 1979-12-26 DP5
GD 1979-12-28 RTv3n1
GD 1979-12-30% RTv3n1 bonus disc
GD 1980 Dead Set
GD 1980 Go To Heaven
GD 1980 Reckoning
GD 1980-05-06 RTv3n4
GD 1980-05-07% RTv3n4
GD 1980-05-15% Go To Nassau
GD 1980-05-16% Go To Nassau
GD 1980-09-02% DP21-filler
GD 1980-09-03 DS7
GD 1980-09-04 Set2 DS7
GD 1980-11-28 30Trips
GD 1980-11-30 DaP8
GD 1981-05-06 DP13
GD 1981-05-16 30Trips
GD 1981-12-09 DaP20
GD 1982-04-05% RTv4n4-filler
GD 1982-04-06 RTv4n4
GD 1982-07-31 30Trips
GD 1982-08-07 DP32
GD 1983-09-02 DaP27
GD 1983-10-14 DP6
GD 1983-10-21 30Trips
GD 1984-10-12 30Trips
GD 1985-06-24 30Trips
GD 1985-11-01 DP21
GD 1986-05-03 30Trips
GD 1987 In The Dark
GD 1987-07-24 VFTV4
GD 1987-07-26 VFTV4
GD 1987-09-18 30Trips
GD 1987-10-03% VFTV3-filler
GD 1988-03-27 DS5
GD 1988-03-31% RTv4n2-filler
GD 1988-04-01 RTv4n2
GD 1988-07-03 30Trips
GD 1989 Built to Last
GD 1989-04-02 DS9
GD 1989-04-03 DS9
GD 1989-07-07 CWI
GD 1989-07-12 RFK Box
GD 1989-07-13 RFK Box
GD 1989-10-08 Warlocks
GD 1989-10-09 Warlocks
GD 1989-10-16 NOD
GD 1989-10-26 30Trips
GD 1990-03-14 S90TOO
GD 1990-03-15 Terrapin Limited
GD 1990-03-16 S90
GD 1990-03-18 S90TOO
GD 1990-03-19 S90
GD 1990-03-21 S90TOO
GD 1990-03-22 S90
GD 1990-03-24 Dozin Knick
GD 1990-03-25 S90TOO
GD 1990-03-26 S90
GD 1990-03-28 S90TOO
GD 1990-03-29 S90TOO
GD 1990-03-30 S90
GD 1990-04-01 S90TOO
GD 1990-04-02 S90
GD 1990-04-03 S90TOO
GD 1990-06-16 VFTV3
GD 1990-07-08 VFTV1
GD 1990-09-16 DP9
GD 1990-10-27 30Trips
GD 1991-06-14 VFTV2
GD 1991-06-19% DS11-filler
GD 1991-06-20 DS11
GD 1991-09-10 30Trips
GD 1991-09-25 DP17
GD 1992-03-20 30Trips
GD 1992-12-16 DP27
GD 1992-12-17% DP27-filler
GD 1993-03-27 30Trips
GD 1994-10-01 30Trips
GD 1995-02-21 30Trips
Releases by year
Here's a website I've been using to try to make a spreadsheet of all the full show releases, been at it off and on for a few hours, amd up to 1979, with 154 shows put out between 1966 and 1978, it's quite a lot. The site is missing some of the most recent releases, and I'm leaving out most of the random few song releases. I'll figure a way to post it when it's done, but the numbers below are off quite a bit. Europe '72 by itself is 22 shows, by my count it's 33.5 1972 releases counting 11/18/72, and I count 25 1977 releases (counting 11/2, which has almost all been released, but not counting the October '77 Road Trips, which is a smattering of songs across several shows), and 20 1990 releases (counting 3/24 which has almost all been released over various compilations).
http://www.deaddisc.com/GDFD_Dead_By_Date.htm
Eta: just saw icecreamkd's post came through as I was typing.
wait a minute....this doesn't
wait a minute....this doesn't sound as good as Europe '72
Look at all that spreadsheet goodness....
....where does one start? Close your eyes and just pick.
I dunno guys this '83 release
I dunno guys this '83 release might overshadow the pacific northwest box. get me a blanket, its cold-cold in this shadow.
update: I now have Cool Kid Status due to this release. I finally made it no more having to worry about where my seat will be during lunch. "right this way Mr. Terrapin, your table awaits you." I'm a '80's Dead hero, I've got stars in my eyes sigh~~~~~~
No accounting for taste
I appreciate an early 80s release, but I’m not sure that this show measures up. For 1983, I strongly recommend 4-13-1983, as a prime example of a sharp, high-energy, inventive, and totally engaged performance. I think DaP 27 pales in comparison, and the sound quality from my old 4-13 cassette is comparable to or even better than the ‘remastered’ Boise show. After snapping up some of Dave’s early releases, I’ve passed on almost everything else since. Just plain disappointed. Certainly, this Boise show isn’t the flub-fest that is DaP 20, but I think the show’s hype was a bit over the top. I wouldn’t say the band is particularly “ON.”
I’m glad Dave is carrying on the DP legacy. That’s great — especially for folks who share his taste. I don’t so I think I’ll pass on his picks from here on out. One less competitor in the race to buy ‘em...!! Enjoy!!
product sku
081227931599