Grateful Dead

Thanks for that, I’m still smiling/laughing!

HBut none of these folks would of had a place to do what they did, innovate, whatever, if not for Chuck Berry.Read any of THEIR books; Dylan, Beatles, Keif, Pete, Clapton etc, etc and they all say the same thing! So all y’all know more than them? The argument about birth is ridiculous. It presupposes that something can be alive, but not yet born? Or it’s not yet born because of a certain level of popularity? You just insulted 99% of the people on this planet? If no one knows about you, you haven’t been born? RR, pop whatever, did not exist before the Beatles because of scale? I’d beg to differ that the socio-cultural impact of Chuck and Elvis was just as profound as the Beatles, just on a different scale, probably due to the widespread accessibility of television that erupted in the 60s. The Beatles were able to bring “Pop” for lack of better word to the masses as much because of TV exsposure as their music. What If Chuck Berry had been White, and had the exposure they had, in the fifties? Would “modern music” be relevant at all if not for MTV, and the widespread accessibility it afforded? And if not, does that mean it would never have been “born? Speaking of the “music” an overwhelming percentage of all popular/RR etc consists of what is known as a 1, 4, 5 chord progression, and/or evolutionary variations of. This of course is the same as most blues music, so Chuck didn’t invent that. But he wrote songs based on it, added his own RR guitar sound, wrote original lyrics influential to both RR and the times, including innuendo and satire, added a “show”, and sprinkled in a whole lot of attitude, that became hugely popular (reletive to the time period with little or no tv exsposure). Around & around, Johnny B Goode are all written like this, and many of the so called Beatles influenced music you allude to are just variations of the same, U.S Blues is a great example! This music was widely known and excepted as RR well before the Beatles. So if already widely known and part of the cultural lexicon, how could the Beatles have given birth to it? The Beatles did not start any of that, they just were able to take it to another level. And what would the Beatles have been without Sir George Martin and all that amazing new technology... Yes they brought their own style and energy that was on a different level for sure. But the reason they could even do that was because Chuck, Elvis, Dylan etc not only broke the barriers for them, they set the standard that good RR has to have all these other components, what ever happens to the actual music stylistically. Have you ever heard a real rocker that has been turned into a musac version on an elevator? ...same music, but no tude. To me that ain’t RR. But as much as the music, Chuck brought a style, energy, sound and perhaps most important to real RR, an Attitude. This is perhaps just as important to the sociological phonemnon that is part of ALL RR! There would be no legend of Keif if not for Chuck, just ask Keif! The Beatles had nothing to do with punk rock, but Chuck made attitude so important that punk was able to exist. Let’s face it, that’s what punks about, not the shitty, amateur music. So I agree with everything you guys have said about how they incomprehensibly changed RR/pop etc, their influences on the rest of the world, and all music thereafter etc, I would even say their perhaps the most influential band ever! But sorry, I cannot except the presuppositional stance that they “gave birth” to RR. Again, don’t take my word for it read the books by ALL the artists, ESPECAILLY the Beatles! (Sorry, capitals not meant as shouting, just accentuation). John Lennon at his most cockiest would have never said they “gave birth to RR. (see quote back a few posts....) Edit; see clovets Lenon guote at 10:49 am.

A superb and innovative musician-I agree. That 1968 Comeback show is incredible. He doesn't just perform music-he IS music.

Saw Bruce Cockburn play last weekend at an annual, long running folk festival in beautiful northern Michigan (Blissfest). An enjoyable acoustic set bit I can't say much more as my experience with his music has always been peripheral. Mary Chapin Carpenter headlined the next night and she was wonderful. Highly recommended if she ever rolls into your town. Other acts I have seen there over the years includes John Hiatt, Los Lobos, Taj Mahal, Core Harris, Richie Havens (!)...

....don't tell my Mom.

I would agree that most labels are pointless-and reductive-in all fields, not just music. But its always bugged me a bit when fans of late 60s-mid 70s music refer to that music as rock n' roll. In that "Live at Pompeii " film Roger Waters refers to Pink Floyd as that. Maybe I would have done at the time. But In 1979, I saw The Cramps. My eyes pinged open. THIS was rock n' roll. All the music I had been listening to was clearly something else. From there it was back to Elvis, Sun Records, Little Richard, Chuck Berry et al. And it was very different world from the one Pink Floyd inhabited. And going back further, to the blues and all the different styles within that form. I don't know-its always interested me, the roots and diversity of all this music. Thanks for the tip off about Bruce Cockburn. I have never come across him in all my years of obsession.

"Elvis did not write music, nor would many consider him a real musician." I disagree: first, as a singer he was a musician and a great one; singers are musicians! second, he played and was recorded not only on rhythm guitar but also lead guitar, piano and electric bass.

https://youtu.be/wVDtmouV9kM....if not, you are now!

Calling Bruce "the Canadian Bob Dylan" is a good way to start...true as far as lyrics go, anyway. However, he's been a much better singer over the years than Dylan, and as a guitar player, he's in the upper, upper echelon. Jerry was a fan, and, in fact, covered Bruce's song Waiting for a Miracle. He's also been covered by everyone from Jimmy Buffett to Judy Collins to Dan Fogelberg. He should be as well known as fellow Canadians Joni Mitchell and Neil Young, as he's from the same era; he just didn't hit it big commercially in the U.S. In Canada, he's a giant. He's sold over a million albums in Canada alone, and has received 13 Juno awards, Canada's version of the Grammy. Seriously, check him out. Classic-era essential Bruce albums from the 70s to 80s include: Dancing in the Dragon's Jaws In the Falling Dark Humans Inner City Front Stealing Fire Latter era, I'd recommend The Charity of Night.

today I go into a pizza-by-the-slice place. I tell 'em what I want. what's that music? is that...it is! it's the Grateful Dead! Loser from sometime in Spring 77. Wow! then it's Ripple from AB! then it's Casey Jones from WD! _that_ doesn't happen very often.