Grateful Dead

yup..now we're fighting eachother...... please anyone with any influence in this sorry mess just get them to post one of the following on the Home Page. It would stop so much of this ugliness a. We're sorry and you can have it back b. We're sorry, but it is due circumstances beyond our control (+ brief explanation) and we are working hard to sort it out for you c. We're sorry, but don't worry because bigger, better more beautiful things are on the way any day now all they have to do is copy and paste....how much easier can it be....hey I could get a job as a management consultant ..doesn't seem that hard!!!! Of course there is option D d. We're not sorry and you have to put up with it but surely not...Say it ain't so Rhino!

The new streaming format is really bad (Ok it sounds OK in my bad computer speakers) and I can't understand why you changed from the mp3s which were easy to handle and could be used almost anywhere with iPods etc. Bring back the mp3s or you'll lose a lot of goodwill and enthusiasm among us dead heads Janne B (joined the Dead Head mail list in 1971, and can't understand why you've gone back to inferior technology)

David, with all due respect, where do you find a "modicum of good will" in the choice to no longer provide MP3s here (and for your show, for that matter)?

I just want to make a correction and apology for misspelling's David Lemieux's name in my previous post.

David Gans wrote: "Since we don't know the reason for the change, would it be possible to assume a modicum of good will rather than defaulting to hostility and the presumption of evil intent?" Well, David, it's natural human emotions we're dealing with here. It's like you've been in a long relationship with a partner. When the partner suddenly does something that hurts and offends without explanation then it's natural to hit out and maybe hurt the one you love in the process. Some of us have had a relationship with GOGD for forty years. We thought we knew them, because they shared our dreams and our ideals. It really was a partnership thing. They brought the music to the table, we bought the albums, we travelled hundreds or thousands of miles to see the shows, and we offered love and support (for example note the outpouring of good wishes to Mark Karan). And we grieved when various band members died. So it's hardly surprising that some of us have been rather emotional over this latest decision to switch from the incredibly popular MP3 to streams without prior notice or explanation. That isn't a partnership, that's corporatism. CJ.

Well here it is 4 days later and still no statement from the wankers at Rhino that I'm aware of...no surprise there(you'd think after 35 pages of complaints someone would get a clue). Thanks for all your hard work David L. that 4-7-72 China/Rider owned my face! Please kick your coporate management in the balls for me and tell them we would like a little info on the state of affairs concerning this decision and future releases.

Just when it seemed like you had finally gotten your heads out of your butts and started giving back to the fans that have continued to support you for 12 YEARS after you disbanded you go and pull this. Like not being able to download a few songs is going to make us buy more stuff. And what stuff are we supposed to buy? You stopped doing the download series last year, and since then have only offered two new CDs (Cow Palace and From the Vault 3), both of which I’ve gotten. What losers, Jerry’s got to be turning over in his grave, and not because he’s rockin’ out to the tunes.

Here is the rub. Sometimes the fans of this site are treated like family. Sometimes we are treated like consumers. Sometimes we are valued as friends, then others looked down upon for being "fanatical". There is very little respect for the DeadHead in the general society. Do not hold it against us for wanting respect here. You, of all people should understand.

I am right there with you about demanding respect. The lack of explanation is a big problem, for sure. I'm just asking for patience. GD Hour blog Station list

I am sure David has been a bit frustrated by this situation since he obviously knows about as much about whats going on as we do. So then to have a lot of badgering comments can make someone snap - everyone can have their passionate moment! And then the next thing you know you got an expletive coming out of your mouth (or fingers)! But lets all just be patient and hopefully expect by the time that the next tapers section comes along we will have a proper explanation be it for good or bad. Plus there are probably a lot of diffferent people knocking heads trying to figure out exactly what to tell us - a premature comment about whats going on may not help - we need a full answer. I plan on chaecking back here in a few days and hopefully by Monday someone can give us a proper answer.

A thirsty guy walks into Starbucks in need of a double skinny chocco latte chai thing. On the counter he sees some new CDs, nicely displayed: “Hmm” he muses “I liked chirpy Brit Lily Allen’s single..think I’ll try the CD. Now what’s this..the Grateful Dead…always wondered what they were about...I never cared for the name, but they don’t look so dangerous in this cover picture and I really like that Cherry Garcia icecream. Think I’ll give ‘em a try too” On the way home he slips the Grateful Dead CD into his car player “Hey this is pretty good….not what I expected at all….a little bit country ..a little bit rock’n’roll ..a little bit jazz….ooh that one was a bit weird but no matter,. I might just check out their albums” He gets home and heads for the computer “I’ll visit the website first, see if I can find out some more…hey it looks good...that CC Joe having his fun ..that nice TigerLilly taking care of everyone...and the guy on “What are you listening too right now” even likes classical music. These could be my kind of people! Hmmm I wonder what this taper’s section is all about?”…. CLICK………...PAUSE…… AND THEN HE FINDS THIS ANGUISHED, PASSIONATE, ANGRY, PLEADING MOB COUGHING UP MULTICOLOURED HAIRBALLS AND BAYING FOR THE BLOOD OF THE COWERING SILENT, BELEAGUERED RECORD COMPANY “Oh my” he says “this doesn’t seem to be my sort of thing at all…. I think I’ll stick to that nice Lilly Allen after all” CLICK Altogether now At first when I see you cry, yeah it makes me smile, yeah it makes me smile At worst I feel bad for a while, but then I just smile I go ahead and smile lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala and the moral of the story is............no I don't know either

pa·tience [pey-shuhns] –noun 1. the quality of being patient, as the bearing of provocation, annoyance, misfortune, or pain, without complaint, loss of temper, irritation, or the like. Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006. "The floggings will continue until morale improves." Captain Blye - Mutiny on the Bounty

I know, I know...another post from the "porpoise" guy...but you see, it looks like people like David Gans and stuff are here so I thought I should actually post something serious instead of silly (which is more my forte). Anyway, I'm not a paying customer. I admit it. The money I spend on music goes to supporting local live music. They NEED the money so much more. Also, I mostly listen to music through my PC. I have an old laptop in the kitchen and I listen while I cook and clean. So here is my issue: The streams aren't working for me! I've tried on two different PC's and I can only get a stream to work one in fifty tries. I don't care if this is about money or downloads or whatever, I just want to listen and I can't hear the freakin' things. AND...I was at the 7-10-1989 show and I really wanna hear this stuff. That said, just put the tunes in a format that works REALLY well for everyone. Please? | I'm just a, well...porpoise. |

I think we should stop bashing Gans. At least he cares enough to post, while Rhino and the other David remain silent. Believe me, Gans gives a shit. He just loses his patience with some of the more over- the -top posts. Give him a break and appreciate what he has done for us in the past and continues to do.

I don't think anyone's bashing Gans. I think he does give a shit, as you say. However, his is the only (semi-) official voice that's replied here so far. So, yes, I think most of us appreciate what he has done over the years (heck, over the decades). One or two asshole posts don't change that.

At this point, I for one am not really interested in an explanation as to why the mp3's are no longer available. I refuse to believe our collective response was unforseen. The courtesy of an explanation would certainly have eased the transition and the lack thereof is an indication that it wasn't the decision of folks like Lemieux or Gans but powers that see our world from a much different perspective. In the end, it is troubling to have been given access to the music the way we were, which correctly recognized that we were not typical music fans, and then to have it changed abruptly and so rudely, as if none of that mattered. Poor performance indeed. Scott

It ain't us, folks. I'm the last person to defend the recent developments, but think about it: Rhino knew when it took over this thing that Deadheads were going to be the least of their concern. It's been pretty well established that we're going to be buying up anything in the world of Dead-dom they put out - and with most of the stuff (i.e., Dick's Picks, downloads, etc.), we're going to be the ONLY ones buying it. Look at that counter on the left. Every time I look at it, it's got maybe 100-150 people. We're a shrinking community, and what Rhino's looking to do is draw in the general populace with releases that are solid, concise, easily digestible (none of the wild excursions of, say, '69 or '73). And most importantly, fewer and further between; they don't want to waste money on items for the finite niche market that is us - they want to put out one or two releases a year and make sure that some kid who picked up "Intro to the Dead" or whatever it's called at Starbucks doesn't log on here and say, "Hey wow, it's all free anyway, sanctioned by the band themselves!" and make that the LAST GD purchase they ever make. What I'm saying is, Rhino doesn't want to be the keeper of a cult phenomenon. They want the Dead to be consumed on the scale of Skynyrd's greates hits, or the Eagles or whatever. And if they lose even 50% of the diehards on this site... well, that's like 100 people, right? Nickels and dimes. Only 10 more years...

If they aren't concerned about their core customers, then they're going to have a tough time. The Dead is not the kind of band you sell just by releasing compilations. I doubt they're that stupid.

It all rolls into oneAnd nothing comes for free There's nothing you can hold For very long... And when you hear that song Come crying like the wind It seems like all this life Was just a dream...

Where can they be found? In this comment section? Or over on gdh, somewhere?

I am sure you find yourself in a difficult position here so I would like to suggest a way you can help without compromising yourself If you know more than you're letting on, but cannot tell us, please use the word DIRIGIBLE in your next post If what you know is generally good news please if possible add the word ARTICHOKE If on the other hand what you know is mostly bad news please try to slip in the word EUPHONIUM If you are as in the dark as the rest of us then the inclusion of the word FUNICULAR will put our minds at rest No-one will guess standing by ;-)

Badger, now that was funny!

Jerry said once they played the music they where done w/ it and to let us have it.Jerry would be so sad. If anyone is in the Florida area, i would love to start a trade some kind folks,so if your out there lets hook up.

Heh...heh... No, I didn't post my comment before cosmicbadger said it! The forum hiccupped! OK - So here is my take on this firestorm... First, there are at least 300 members here... probably closer to over 1000. (No stats are shown anywhere, so I'm guessing.) We do have some clout, notwithstanding cactuswax's claims. Second, I like the mp3 downloads; they're convenient and sound better than a stream. I don't own an ipod, nor an mp3 player, and my computer has a rather sophisticated sound system hooked up to my sound card. (Sound card-->HiFi amp-->big stereo speakers) It sounds great! I work at home and use the computer close to 5 hours a day, and listen to a variety of music, podcasts, streaming audio and [gasp!] talk radio during the day. Streaming just means more work, and computer overhead for me. Just my 2 cents.

Sometimes Its best Not to Fix what aint Broken!!!! sorry to say Greatful as always but verry disapointed with this change( Mabey im greedy ill admit i enjoyd Having the Mp3,s to download never the Less ive spent lots of time and money invested in the Dead certainly a small handout isnt to much to ask ...Is your Cup Full ....

At least they haven't taken away our ability to post complaints here!

Questions: If these aren't going to be officially released, why lock them up? If these *are* going to be available for purchase, why not tell us? Are you guys really so clueless that you aren't aware of the nature of this community? Try and and see around that big-ass horn on your nose, and at least respond, WTF?

The amazing thing is that Rhino has not pulled this section. I think things are much deeper than they seem. Maybe our voices are being kept here in an effort to bring pressure on someone or someones. I am not defending Rhino, they could at least say something , like even a collective hello. But maybe all sorts of lawyers and other people are involved including copyright folks for songs, band members and wives. Who is behind the curtain? I do know that the world needs more cosmicbadgers.... Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.) Walt Whitman-Song of Myself

Unless this is a Phil vs Bobby thing, I'd be surprised that Rhino is happy that we are complaining. If they did remove the ability to comment, then we'd all be able to scream about censorship, and that'd be very negative for them, since it would go beyond simply this board.

. . . It Hurts Me Too . . .

http://www.deadboots.com http://www.accessplace.com/grateful.htm PikesPeak

http://www.archive.org/details/GratefulDead PikesPeak

David Gans made the following comments on August 21, 2007 (my comments, to his statement, are in ALL CAPS): ~Changes at DeadNet~ “Many of you already know that on Monday morning the GD Hour archive and Taper’s Section downloads at DeadNet were changed from downloadable MP3s to streaming-only. The change was made without explanation, and of course it has caused an uproar. I’ve posted this in two places on DeadNet today [WHERE? - I COULDN’T FIND EITHER POSTING - BUT THEN AGAIN THERE ARE MANY POSTS TO SEARCH THROUGH], and I thought I’d share it here as well: I’m in New Jersey mixing a CD this week, and I found out about this change Monday morning, the same time everyone else did [MAYBE - BUT I'LL GIVE YOU THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT]. I don’t have a lot of information at the moment, and it’s not my place to make a public statement about it in any case [YES IT IS YOUR PLACE TO MAKE A PUBLIC STATEMENT - IT WAS SIMPLY WRONG FOR RHINO TO MAKE THE CHANGE - IT IS ‘not your place’ ONLY TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU ARE RECEIVING MONEY FROM AND/OR ARE EMPLOYED BY RHINO RECORDS - THIS IS CALLED A CONFLICT OF INTEREST DAVID, YOU MAY NOT THINK THAT IT EXISTS, BUT MANY OTHER DEADHEADS DO], but I can assure you it’s a good deal more complicated than it might appear [NO IT'S NOT - IT'S EITHER RIGHT OR WRONG - IT COMES DOWN TO (i) MONEY and (ii) A COMPLETELY LUDICROUS BUSINESS/MARKETING DECISION]. I’ve been working with these people at Rhino and the new DeadNet for several months [TWO COMMENTS - (i) I WOULDN’T EXACTLY BE BRAGGING ABOUT THIS FACT GIVEN THE # & QUALITY OF RELEASES PUT OUT BY RHINO DURING THE PAST SEVERAL MONTHS and (ii) DON’T QUIT YOU’RE DAY JOB], and I believe they have great respect for the music and the community [EITHER (i) YOUR ARE LYING THROUGH YOUR TEETH, (ii) HAVE BEEN DRINKING WAY TOO MUCH OF THE KOOL-AID THEY SERVE OVER AT RHINO/WARNER BROS. or (iii) YOUR JOB DESCRIPTION AT RHINO NOW INCLUDES PUBLIC RELATIONS]. It hurts me to read the violent [NONE OF THE POSTS HERE HAVE BEEN VIOLENT] and venomous [VENOMOUS MAYBE, BUT MANY WOULD ARGUE JUSTLY DESERVED - & HOW DOES VENOMOUS COMPARE TO YOUR ‘original' (prior to you're 'editing' of it) PROFANITY INCLUDED, POST YOU MADE REGARDING THE STARBUCK’S COMMENT] posts I’ve seen from some people in these pages, although I can understand why folks are upset. I agree that it’s a bummer [PLEASE STOP USING THESE COLLOQUIALISMS - THEY DO NOT MAKE YOU 'ONE OF US'] the change was made abruptly and without explanation, but I trust that there is a reasonable [REASONABLE TO WHOM - THE SUITS (which likely includes you David) OR THE DEADHEADS] explanation and we’ll hear it soon [MAYBE - EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE THE RESOURCES & CONNECTIONS TO FIND OUT THE EXPLANATION NOW (OR AT LEAST WITHIN A FEW HOURS TIME)].” David - I do enjoy your grateful Dead Hour, however I think that either you have sold out to Rhino or are just blind. First it was your defense of the Dead’s move regarding the SBD’s and archive.org, then the defense of Starbuck's (which is a pure money grab by Rhino) and now this. Please wake up - yes Rhino and the GD Inc. have every right to make money and no one here denies that, however, there are right ways and wrong ways to make money - just because the other record companies don’t ‘get it’ doesn’t mean that you & Rhino have to go with the flow. Either do it right or disassociate yourself with Rhino - you can’t have it both ways. As someone noted before - ‘ALL HAIL TO CHARLIE MILLER!!!’ - in my opinion, Charlie is quickly replacing Mr. Gans as the ‘go-to’ man in the Dead community - both for his contributions of music and, more importantly, his embodiment of the selfless actions/attitude that define the Dead community by making such contributions that appear to be flying in the face of what Gans, GD Inc., Rhino & Bobby have been trying to do - restrict the music. Anyway, if you made it this far, thanks for taking the time to read my rant - Anthony

Sorry, being chained to my PC to listen to this music doesn't work for me. Please notify me when I'm able to download the music again and listen to it where and when I please. Music wants to be free. tx m

Aren't many, if not all, of the initial CM BT's available at an "invite only" site (which will remain anonymous here, by request) and that's because of many, many "kind" Deadhead leeches who just couldn't hang on long enough to reach a 100 per cent ratio thus reducing the seeding and thereby creating an "exclusive" trading site?Just sayin'...... Leeches and mean people suck. .

It seems to me that the last few month that we have all enjoyed this fountian of music we have actually been participants in a test. Not unlike pharmacutical testing, but far less risky.Won't we all admit that it all seemed too good to be true? I had my moment of "Holy Shit!" when I realized I could right-click and save the target of each song over to my iTunes. Hell, I even got picky after a few months and started turning my nose up at the less than pristine tracks, and the admittedly horrid presentation of some songs (remember the band respects us more when we are honest- and to think Jerry gave one rats ass on that Vince led "Watching the Wheels" is proof you are kidding yourself. My buddy joked to me that instead of haring Vince yell out the chord changes, we wish he would have said- you could chime in any fucking time with a bit of a solo Garcia!!!!). I remeber my same pickiness in achive.org. Boy, I wish I would have taken more of that now that it is gone. So, we knew. We all knew. So what was the test? They give you a little for free and see how many take it, and how often you come back for more. We all took it, and we all came back for more. We all came back for more this past Monday, and WHA!! the dealer was gone! Now they know. Now it is time to charge. So the question you need to answer is this: will you pay 99 cents for each selection in David's taper section? Will you pay $1.29 for a GDH? You all argue that these freebies have not stopped you from spending $$. I myself have not bought the 3rd vault release yet, and I would blame that heavily on my Monday morning fix taking care enough of my jones. On the other hand- I would be happy to scan the tapers section and buy a hot rendition of Estimated-Eyes that sends me into that lovely orbit for 99 cents. Bring it on. and I assume that Apple would begin watching the dead.net section like a test and if enough of us buy, then they will want to get the songs on iTunes. That seems to be the way the world works today- but at least our brothers in the Dead world gave us an 8 gigabyte headstart for free. Just like the best fans in the world, the best show formats, and the best vibes- we hve the best thing going in our hearts, but nothing comes for free for very long. So yes- vote me in as pissed. I have had an image of Lemiux as this naughty kid in the store who was actually getting this stuff out the back door to us for free without the suits knowing. Maybe if we would have all kept quiet we could have kept it going. He knows we like it, we know the deal... kind of like the cool laid back dude at the shows who never overcharged for the blotter, and always had the cleanest stuff on the planet. No one ever boasted about him to the suits. Or actually, I guess someone did, and that is what made the walls come crumbling down instead of calmly melting for us.... Lost to the world on that 50 cent jive

Good one mngolf.

_________________________ -- Olompali said -- "Aren't many, if not all, of the initial CM BT's available at an "invite only" site (which will remain anonymous here, by request) and that's because of many, many "kind" Deadhead leeches who just couldn't hang on long enough to reach a 100 per cent ratio thus reducing the seeding and thereby creating an "exclusive" trading site?" _________________________ I get mine (CM BTs that is) from e-tree and dime-a-dozen - I'm sure there are other sites as well. E-tree does not have an 'invite policy' and Dime requires you to register first but I wouldn't say that registering is the same as requiring an invite. If there is a site for 'initial' CM BT's, I do not know of it and, regardless, even if there were one, it seems that the CM BTs make it to e-tree and dime soon enough. As far as there not being enough seeds - if you see a BT w/o any seeds, a request for seeds generally produces several - therefore I believe that your statements regarding 'exclusive' sites and 'not-so-kind' Deadheads is somewhat misplaced.

tj crowley where is it stated that rhino is behind this..i'm not supporting the decision but poster's have been targeting rhino for the decision to switch formats/access BUT where did anyone see/read that it was a rhino decision?

C'mon now. All of a sudden......the best part is most of the quality is average to poor. THAT means only the people who truly appreciate it gets the most out of it, and it sounds kick ass to them, ME. Just here our words.don't hate, appreciate!

GDlive site Alive soon ? Info?

Well, I'm still really annoyed by this streaming mess, but there are ways to record them, although I'm uncertain about the sound quality and reliability. highcriteria.com has a program called Total Recorder which I purchased for about $18. Pretty easy to use. Seems to work ok. I'm on my 6th of 8 of this week's selections. Painfully, it must be done in real time, so those of us still in the dark ages of dial-up have to go down to the nearest wireless cafe and spend plenty of time sitting around and getting increasingly caffeinated. Getting the jitters as we speak, actually. Thank God I'm a teacher and have a bit of time to waste - one of the few perks of the profession during August. Don't know what I'll do when the school year starts. Of course, now that I found out about this and spoke of it in this forum, they'll probably remove the Tapers Section completely.

I think GDlive is gone for good. Who ever was running it originally stopped maintaning it a couple of years ago. I'm actually surprised it lasted as long as it did. It was a very cool site while it was alive, but for whatever reason it got abandoned. What a shame. Of course, considering recent events with Archive.org I think it would have been shut down anyway. Can't have those SBD's just sitting there for anybody to download, now can we? At least we still have BitTorrents.

Welcome my son, welcome to the machine. What did you dream? It's alright we told you what to dream. You dreamed of a big star, He played a mean guitar, by Pink Floyd Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.) Walt Whitman-Song of Myself

Is this a workaround? http://www.totalrecorder.com/ Has anyone tried it? Pokey

Does just about the same thing as Total Recorder, but its free. Anything you can play through the speakers on your computer you can record with Audacity, and save it in a variety of formats. Where there's a will, there's a way.

GottaPokeAround, please see my last post along with this one. Anomalator, I wish you had posted before I spent more cash. Total Recorder seems ok, but Windows Media Player doesn't like the files. I'm now transferring them to my Mac to see what happens. I will also check out Audacity. Damn

I have to agree with David Gans. 1. The gift of the Tapers-Section, and then its unexplained withdrawal, is discouraging to fans. 2. The Starbucks thing is a great, wonderful thing. It will turn more people on to the spirit of good times and kindness that defines the Dead, no matter how evil or not Rhino is. The songs remain the same, as does the spirit within them. That is timeless, controllable by no earthly power. 3. As Deadheads we must hold ourselves to a higher moral standard than the average Joe. So I just feel we should keep the comments clean (as the vast majority are) and demand the common courtesy of an explanation from Rhino, without going totally overboard.

Never mind about Total Recorder. The sound is so distorted, it is unlistenable. Perhaps I've done something wrong? Clue me in folks.

Where's David Lemieux in all this.....Tied up to a chair somewhere in the back of the vault?? I have read every post since Monday (cosmicbadger, your the best!!!) and still find it hard to belive that NO OFFICIAL word has been given..... I belive the Mod's will lock this section around 50+ post's...Then what??? 50 more pages of bitching and infighting next Monday.. Im not optimistic about this....I really belive that they just pulled the downloads without any plan of action..... This is the one band in history where you could take almost every decent SB in the vault, remaster it, package it and slap a nice little price tag on it and 80% OF US WOULD BUY IT WE CAN'T BUY IT IF YOU DON'T SELL IT Dead to the Core www.myspace.com/bongwizard